Multishot Is Rng- Proof

[Xrylene]

Well, this confirms it then I guess. Multishot is indeed RNG. Thanks for taking the time to do this test Argoms, I don't really have any multishot mods, nor bolt weapons, so it wasn't something I could easily see for myself.

 

With this new information, I'm going to go back to my thread and modify it again with this in mind.

[darrenalilim]

Nope.

All weapons have a 0% base chnace of multishot.  This mod directly adds the % that it provides.

100% multishot gaurentees you'll multishot every shot.

What you said is true for damage, critical chance, and nearly all other mods.

Does this mean that if the mod is over 100% (1xx%) the weapon would multishot the second shot 100% of the time but triple shot with XX% of the time?

In different wording, the 1XX% would be like XX% except with two bullets all the time?

Sorry about bad wording, it's a bit confusing to me

Edited May 8, 2013 by darrenalilim

[Tsukinoki]

Does this mean that if the mod is over 100% (1xx%) the weapon would multishot the second shot 100% of the time but triple shot with XX% of the time?

In different wording, the 1XX% would be like XX% except with two bullets all the time?

Sorry about bad wording, it's a bit confusing to me

120% multishot is 100% chance of shooting 2 bullets with a 20% chance of shooting 3.  Put that on a lex or akbolto and you really see the damage soar, though usually 100% is enough as it doubles your damage.

[Azure_Kytia]

Yeah, like many above me.... I am confused as to how people could actually come to the conclusion that it is deterministic. If it were, then there wouldn't be percentages listed anywhere near the Multishot mod. It would just be worded as "on every x shot, fire double."

Edited May 8, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[Xehalin]

Just because you had 20 multishots in a row means nothing. You'd be better off testing it with a 1000 shots. You'd have a better chance of getting a 90% proc rate there. 

[Azure_Kytia]

Just because you had 20 multishots in a row means nothing. You'd be better off testing it with a 1000 shots. You'd have a better chance of getting a 90% proc rate there. 

 

It actually already does everything to prove what they set out to do.

 

Someone had been saying that multishot operated on a deterministic basis (e.g. if you had a 20% MS mod, you would fire double on EVERY fifth shot). Argoms tested it with a 90% MS mod, and by that logic, he should have had MS NOT work ONCE in a ten shot pattern. What happened was he successfully fired MS well over ten times, implying that it is indeed random. Not Deterministic. Which again, is common sense, but you know. Common sense isn't always common.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[Loswaith]

Are you certain they weren't talking on averages, because on average this would be the case of 9/10 shots beinf double.  As the only time I can see this being an issue would be when people are calculating damage numbers.  IE. damage per clip, damager per second or damage per minute.  In all cases you need to take into consideration the average, over the actual occurance of shots.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Loswaith

[Tsukinoki]

Are you certain they weren't talking on averages, because on average this would be the case of 9/10 shots beinf double.  As the only time I can see this being an issue would be when people are calculating damage numbers.  IE. damage per clip, damager per second or damage per minute.  In all cases you need to take into consideration the average, over the actual occurance of shots.

People were claiming repeatedly that double shot was deterministic and it would *always* go off every 5th shot if you had 20% ms.  They weren't talking on average or anything.  They gave an example of "If you have 20% MS on a paris fire 4 shots as fast as you can and then charge the 5th because that one is gaurenteed to be a double shot..." which is just bad advice since that's not how it works.

[Namacyst]

Multishot reads as %-chance. 100% chance means "every time" or 100 out of 100 or, to have better numbers to give comparison to values below 100%, 10/10. So 10 shots out of 10 shots will have an additional bullet.

 

If you are below 100% like Rifle which caps at 90%... statistically 9 out of 10 shots will shoot an additional bullet. But we all know.. never trust a statistic you did not forge yourself.

 

The example with the coin was brought up so if you really have bad luck you can toss a coin 10 times (heads 2 bullets, tails one bullet) and get tails all 10 times.. which is statistically unlikely but possible.

 

So yes, 90% chance feels like RNG because it is ^^

Edited May 8, 2013 by Namacyst

[smithf]

Thanks for clearing things up esp with the proof.

Good job to the "Tenno Weapon Testing Department"!

[Tsukinoki]

@Namacyst
Sadly enough people, including a community moderator, did not have enough common sense to read it like they should have and thought "Oh, each shot adds 20% chance that the next one will be multishot and once that reaches 100% then it'll multishot and repeat."

I have no idea how that line of thinking got started but somehow it did and because enough people repeated it, it must be true, right?

That and with most weapons you cant tell if you multishot or not so people didnt bother actually investigating or checking to see how it was done...yay lazyness....

[Adidasprime]

And telling people they lack common sense is helpful, huh.

 

Thanks for the vid OP (and staying classy).

[bakaxy]

I'm amazed how long this myth was kept alive, thought people already understood that it isn't following a certain pattern...

[Tsukinoki]

@bakaxy
If you repeat something often enough you'll start to believe it.  If enough people repeat it often enough most will accept it as true on face value.  That's how it as kept alive.  It didn't help that for a short time the wiki had such "information" on it though thankfully now it doesn't.

[goozilla]

Probably a recent change that went unmentioned. I still remember around 7.8.1, first shot with 90% multishot will NEVER proc multishot. Ever.

 

The change is kinda meh to me. Sure, you now have a chance to go full multishot with 90%, but it loses out on consistency of doing so. Knowing my luck, I might get a chance where I never proc multishot with gorgon for a full mag.

[Loswaith]

People were claiming repeatedly that double shot was deterministic and it would *always* go off every 5th shot if you had 20% ms.  They weren't talking on average or anything.  They gave an example of "If you have 20% MS on a paris fire 4 shots as fast as you can and then charge the 5th because that one is gaurenteed to be a double shot..." which is just bad advice since that's not how it works.

ahh ok... only ones ive seen are in calculations so was good to make sure

[ecaftnuc]

There seems to be some misinformation going around about multishot- claiming that it shoots in a consistent pattern and is completely deterministic. This is not the case (as of 7.10), and hopefully we can all be clear on this from now on.

 

 

I used a boltor because it's most obvious to see when the multishot procs- the projectile deviation at a distance isn't the same for the second shot created by multishot. It has a 90% multishot mod on it, which means if the idea that multishot isn't random is correct, the pattern for shots should be like this:

1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2

However, in this video, multishot procs roughly 20 times in a row, impossible given the previous assumption. Therefore, it's truly a random number and the chances don't "add up" to 100 to create another shot.

 

 

So as you can see, multishot is random and not based on adding sub-100 percentages until they exceed 100.

[Eltoshan]

Good job @ OP.

 

For those wondering "well jeez how could anybody think it was deterministic if it says it's a % chance" this wouldn't be the first time a game presented something as RNG when it was actually deterministic, so combine that with some not-entirely-thorough testing (assuming nothing was ever stealth changed about this, anyways)... and, well, there you have it.

[Lightwire]

Multishot + Gorgon + Hold down trigger = Profit.

[Davoodoo]

I always thought it was funny to read that 90% multishot means 9-1 pattern when i had 5 shots from paris firing only 1 arrow in row.