Kohm And Synoid, Being Over-Nerfed Is Better Than Being Over-Powered

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Let's think about the Kohm and Synoid Gammacor nerfs from a more logical standpoint, as opposed to the overzealous rage that is currently flooding the feedback forums.

 

Pre-nerf, the Synoid Gammacor had well over twice the DPS of the boltor Prime.

With both weapons at max DPS, the Boltor Prime has 41k burst while the Synoid Gammacor had 56k, so I guess it's not completely true. However, in the real game, sustained is the DPS you'll actually be doing, and the Boltor Prime has 23k while the Synoid Gammacor had well over double at 48k.

 

However, the Boltor Prime's DPS could be said to be even lower. The Synoid Gammacor could be modded for max DPS without ammo issues, but if you don't want to waste resources spamming ammo restores, the Boltor Prime needs ammo mutation. With ammo mutation, the burst becomes 22k and the sustained becomes 16k, both well below half the 56k burst and 48k of the pre-nerf Synoid Gammacor.

 

Now compare the pre-nerf Synoid's 48k sustained to the pre-nerf Kohm's 100k. It's easy to see why these weapons were nerfed. Their DPS was so apocalyptic that they made every other weapon in the game completely redundant. If you wanted to use a different weapon that suited your playstyle better, you were looking at having under a 5th of the Kohm's DPS.

 

You all say that the Kohm nerfs took away what made it unique and fun, but a crappy weapon is always preferable to one that makes everything else not worth using. I really don't get why people are mad about the Synoid Gammacor nerf, though. Once again, it was a weapon that made everything else redundant, but it didn't even have any unique mechanics to be taken away. It's still just as boring to use as it was before the nerf. And it's still a good weapon, It just actually has downsides now, which it didn't before.

 

Why are you people mad that the two most ridiculous weapons in the game got a much needed nerf? Do you want the apocalyptic DPS back? Do you want these two weapons to make everything other option pointless again? Are you mad that now you can use the weapons that suit your playstyle without massively decreasing your damage output? What is it?

 

Time to wait for the hate to roll in. I guess you people really hate good weapon balance after all...

Edited March 20, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Camelslayer]

Because being overnerfed is as much a problem as being overpowered.

You know what's best for a weapon?

Being properly balanced.

That's the one thing you may have overlooked.

 

It has nothing to do with the fact that it got a nerf. It's because they don't understand how to properly nerf a weapon. Increasing its ammo consumption was entirely reasonable and I was content with that. It made sense for the damage it had. Reducing its damage by 90% was not.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Camelslayer

[Davoodoo]

Ppl were always like this, shotguns dmg falloff ruined shotguns for them, iron skin nerf ruined rhino, snow globe nerf ruined frost, blessing ruined trinity, damage 2.0 ruined acrid.

 

Give it 2-3 weeks theyll calm.

[vaugahn]

Yes, one OP weapon hurts the game a lot more than several UP weapons. The Synoid Gammacor alone was causing more problems than all the useless secondaries combined.

 

Neither should be acceptable though. Weapons don't have to be either overpowered or useless, there's a lot of range in the middle there. We don't have to settle for one or the other.

 

Also, about the Kohm: good luck ever getting that 100k DPS outside of wfbuilder. The gun's mechanics make that number all but impossible to reach in practice.

[Towermice]

Because being overnerfed is as much a problem as being overpowered.

You know what's best for a weapon?

Being properly balanced.

That's the one thing you may have overlooked.

cmon now, this is warframe we're talking about.

[BloodSage09]

K

[Towermice]

Ppl were always like this, shotguns dmg falloff ruined shotguns for them, iron skin nerf ruined rhino, snow globe nerf ruined frost, blessing ruined trinity, damage 2.0 ruined acrid.

 

Give it 2-3 weeks theyll calm.

But shotguns are worthless.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

But shotguns are worthless.

 

Have you ever built a Phage, Hek, or Boar Prime on Warframe builder? Not the best of the best, but still decent.

 

The Kohm was the one thing that motivated me to disagree with people saying that shotguns need a buff, but now that the Kohm has been nerfed, I can support a shotgun buff.

 

Edit: No real hate yet. I'm genuinely amazed.

Edited March 20, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Because being overnerfed is as much a problem as being overpowered.

You know what's best for a weapon?

Being properly balanced.

That's the one thing you may have overlooked.

 

It has nothing to do with the fact that it got a nerf. It's because they don't understand how to properly nerf a weapon. Increasing its ammo consumption was entirely reasonable and I was content with that. It made sense for the damage it had. Reducing its damage by 90% was not.

It's damage is the same. 28 * 7.5 (change in bullets/sec) = 210, or exactly the same as it used to be.

[Silverton]

Ok so let me get this straight you guys would rather see a gun that people love and have fun with be nerfed to the ground, because it messes with your sense of balance or what is right with this game. This is what is wrong with this game to many people messing up other peoples fun. WAHHHH this gun does to much damage and is better than others wahhhhh. Oh yeah it got nerfed suck on that people who liked it yeah I'm better than you yeaaahhhh. Literally that is all I ever see on these forums. My idea of what is fun is better than yours and it should be so mentality is ruining this game.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Ok so let me get this straight you guys would rather see a gun that people love and have fun with be nerfed to the ground, because it messes with your sense of balance or what is right with this game. This is what is wrong with this game to many people messing up other peoples fun. WAHHHH this gun does to much damage and is better than others wahhhhh. Oh yeah it got nerfed suck on that people who liked it yeah I'm better than you yeaaahhhh. Literally that is all I ever see on these forums. My idea of what is fun is better than yours and it should be so mentality is ruining this game.

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Is there an argument here? I legitimately can't tell.

[Davoodoo]

But shotguns are worthless.

Nowadays yes and i blame difference in dmg mods for that, not limited range.

 

Ok so let me get this straight you guys would rather see a gun that people love and have fun with be nerfed to the ground, because it messes with your sense of balance or what is right with this game. This is what is wrong with this game to many people messing up other peoples fun. WAHHHH this gun does to much damage and is better than others wahhhhh. Oh yeah it got nerfed suck on that people who liked it yeah I'm better than you yeaaahhhh. Literally that is all I ever see on these forums. My idea of what is fun is better than yours and it should be so mentality is ruining this game.

Dude you act exactly the same, have it ever gone through your head that for someone unbalanced game isnt fun??

There are ppl who find cheating fun, should we actually care about their opinion only because they find it fun?? Cause thats analogy to what you propose.

 

Those who cheat should play offline or on private servers, those who want to faceroll should forever stay on mercury, every who actually wants to progress through game at balanced rate should have a set of planets where they actually can.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Camelslayer]

It's damage is the same. 28 * 7.5 (change in bullets/sec) = 210, or exactly the same as it used to be.

 

Mostly what I don't get is why not make the ammo consumption/fire rate/etc. the same as the regular, and give it a little damage boost? That seems to make a little more sense to me. It seems a little weird to have the base Gammacor and the Synoid to be very different when, in essence, they're the same weapon (albeit one has an Entropy effect.)

 

But maybe that's just how I see it.

 

What I think should be done though is they should be equal to their base counterparts, with, let's say, a 15-20% damage increase and perhaps a status increase. It'd put all Syndicate weapons on the same playing field rather than being radically different from each other.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Camelslayer

[Nachino]

When did Kohm ever achieve 100k?

 

Have you ever built a Phage, Hek, or Boar Prime on Warframe builder? Not the best of the best, but still decent.

It takes the whole magazine for the Hek and Boar to reach that damage, you shoot for a second and reload.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Nachino

[f3llyn]

Yes, one OP weapon hurts the game a lot more than several UP weapons. The Synoid Gammacor alone was causing more problems than all the useless secondaries combined.

 

Neither should be acceptable though. Weapons don't have to be either overpowered or useless, there's a lot of range in the middle there. We don't have to settle for one or the other.

 

Also, about the Kohm: good luck ever getting that 100k DPS outside of wfbuilder. The gun's mechanics make that number all but impossible to reach in practice.

 

Causing problems for who exactly?

Edited March 20, 2015 by f3llyn

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Causing problems for who exactly?

 

For every single Warframe player, even the ones that used it. For the ones that didn't use it because it didn't suit their playstyle, they received a massive loss to their damage output for using the weapons that they liked. For those who did use it because it was overpowered, but wouldn't have otherwise, they were being forced to use a weapon that they didn't like. For those who would have used it anyways even if it wasn't overpowered, they shouldn't have a problem with the nerf.

Edited March 20, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Grom-84]

When did Kohm ever achieve 100k?

 

 

It takes the whole magazine for the Hek and Boar to reach that damage, you shoot for a second and reload.

On some stupid screenshots which made some people jealous.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Now compare the pre-nerf Synoid's 48k sustained to the pre-nerf Kohm's 100k. It's easy to see why these weapons were nerfed. Their DPS was so apocalyptic that they made every other weapon in the game completely Redundant.

 

I really, really hate when people try to hold DPS up as the be all and end all of weapon balance.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I really, really hate when people try to hold DPS up as the be all and end all of weapon balance.

 

I really, really hate when people try to pull up flimsy justifications for a blatantly overpowered weapon, such as when people said the Synoid was balanced because of its range cap, which is not that bad in the first place and easily fixed with mods.

 

Sure, DPS isn't the be-all-end-all, but it's the most important stat on a weapon. If it wasn't, the Lato would be top tier.

Edited March 20, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[SmilingMad]

Have you ever built a Phage, Hek, or Boar Prime on Warframe builder? Not the best of the best, but still decent.

 

The Kohm was the one thing that motivated me to disagree with people saying that shotguns need a buff, but now that the Kohm has been nerfed, I can support a shotgun buff.

 

Edit: No real hate yet. I'm genuinely amazed.

The Phage is a bouquet of laser rifles that uses shotgun mods. It is not a shotgun >:(

 

As for buffs, what if all shotguns had some form of innate punchthrough? I mean, the probably mostly just need a bit less reload time, but what if?

[Grom-84]

And nobody finds this stupid that youll need to shoot a whole Coma 100 round's clip to bombards head to kill him? 

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

And nobody finds this stupid that youll need to shoot a whole Coma 100 round's clip to bombards head to kill him? 

 

Off topic much?

 

I didn't know that there was a Coma weapon in Warframe. It sounds both awesome and offensive to people who have loved ones in comas.

 

This is a topic about the Synoid Gammacor and Kohm.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I really, really hate when people try to pull up flimsy justifications for a blatantly overpowered weapon, such as when people said the Synoid was balanced because of its range cap, which is not that bad in the first place and easily fixed with mods.

 

Sure, DPS isn't the be-all-end-all, but it's the most important stat on a weapon. If it wasn't, the Lato would be top tier.

 

I'm sorry you hate when people do that, but the people who do that have a point. A weapon that seems OP on paper can very easily turn out to be not so much in practice.

 

Synoid was like this. It could've done with a nerf to maybe 10-15 meters of range instead of 20 just to appease people who wouldn't know what a balanced weapon would be if it clubbed them over the head in a dark alley. You know, the ones who screech about DPS. But the present nerf has made it basically unusable even though its DPS is virtually identical.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[vindcare]

Ppl were always like this, shotguns dmg falloff ruined shotguns for them, iron skin nerf ruined rhino, snow globe nerf ruined frost, blessing ruined trinity, damage 2.0 ruined acrid.

 

Give it 2-3 weeks theyll calm.

And those weapons will be Mastery fodder like the Acrid atm. Do you see any1 using it? Yup, the future of current Synoid... mastery wep.

 

 

Have you ever built a Phage, Hek, or Boar Prime on Warframe builder? Not the best of the best, but still decent.

 

The Kohm was the one thing that motivated me to disagree with people saying that shotguns need a buff, but now that the Kohm has been nerfed, I can support a shotgun buff.

 

Edit: No real hate yet. I'm genuinely amazed.

Have you tested those weapons on Warframe? They are decent... on paper(or simulation w/e).

Try running Hek in an actual fight when you need to kill ASAP w/o a 2sec reload time every 4 rounds.

 

 

 

Nowadays yes and i blame difference in dmg mods for that, not limited range.

 

Dude you act exactly the same, have it ever gone through your head that for someone unbalanced game isnt fun??

There are ppl who find cheating fun, should we actually care about their opinion only because they find it fun?? Cause thats analogy to what you propose.

 

Those who cheat should play offline or on private servers, those who want to faceroll should forever stay on mercury, every who actually wants to progress through game at balanced rate should have a set of planets where they actually can.

 

A unbalanced game can be both fun and a pain, depends what you want to play.. So yea... no.

Warframe's PVE isn't competative...

Enemies AFAIK were never buffed due to Synoid(If they were, post the proof). 

DON'T tell people how to play a game. 

 

For every single Warframe player, even the ones that used it. For the ones that didn't use it because it didn't suit their playstyle, they received a massive loss to their damage output for using the weapons that they liked. For those who did use it because it was overpowered, but wouldn't have otherwise, they were being forced to use a weapon that they didn't like. For those who would have used it anyways even if it wasn't overpowered, they shouldn't have a problem with the nerf.

For the ones that didn't use it because it didn't suit their playstyle... - ummm, no. Other weapons weren't nerfed when Synoid came out and enemies weren't buffed either. No dps loss there. 

Again, NO1 is forcing you to play a certain weapon. It's a freaking game! Warframe is faaar past the point where every weapon is viable.

Play whats fun for you and let others have fun also.

PvE content is (almost)NEVER competitive so don't make it such!

[Grom-84]

No. This is topic about poor weapon's balance and Soma/Coma is still worse than this crippled Kohm!