Helicoptering : Why Is It Still In The Game? O_O

[Otaiken]

If anything DE should add options for keeping up with coptering players. At most coptering should be the middle ground, that is not the top in speed and efficiency but requiring less skill to use.

 

But just removing it would be net loss for the game. There are also multiple modes of movement in this game. You can keep up with copters through some use of wall-flinging and air melee and/or slide jump.

 

Now if you want to break every container and see every corner of the map... well, then just play solo. I think that there's nothing wrong with rushing. Completely avoiding enemies is pretty boring but well, more power to ya I guess. Other than that going fast and using melee, jumps and slide shooting to kill enemies is a bit more fun than trying for cover shooter approach.

 

You go fast in Warframe. Even when I'm hunting for medallions I go fast. What reason is there to walk around? The game mechanics are stacked against slow player, enemies will spawn around you, you will take more hits and you will waste more ammo.

 

That's the problem with most coptering threads. Many of them seem to be less about coptering and more about the "rushing" and the speed of the game itself. Removing coptering without any alternative would just slow the game down. So by all means... propose alternative. But just removing it would be a loss...

Edited March 23, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Otaiken]

snip

 

You'll find that using PvP aspects as an argument for change to the PvE part of the game is somewhat frowned upon on these forums.

 

There is a PvP feedback section on these forums that is currently filled with threads about coptering and PvP is balanced separately (thank god). So feel free to bring your arguments there.

 

If we were to talk about coptering in PvP we would also have to mention the fact that your average PvP map is the size of a single void tower hall of which there are many in a one PvE mission... for an example.

Edited March 23, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Orbister]

I wholeheartedly agree. It needs to be removed. 

 

1. It looks stupid as hell.

2. It breaks immersion.

3. It punishes those who do not know how to do it.

4. It punishes those who refuse to do it.

5. It forces people to try their hardest to keep up.

6. Rushers who go down complain that their team is too slow and/or did not help them.

7. Makes it easy to skip gunfights, which is wrong.

8. Makes it easy to complete objectives, which is wrong. 

9. Some people actually like having to fight their way through the various rooms.

10. Some people actually like having to fight their way to reach their ojective.

11. Some people actually don't want to look stupid while breaking immersion.

 

The list just goes on and on. The only people disagreeing are the people who exploit it.

 

I also hope Parkour 2.0 removes it. No twisting of words will justify it's existence, sorry. 

your first point is so ridiculously subjective that rends everything you say after obsolete, so nope... no to everything.

[IronRoby]

Gotta love how many of you guys are completly ignoring all valid facts against coptering,

ignoring all the points about how it makes many things of the game meaningless,

but all you guys are basicly saying is,

screw all that content that is in this game,

and the things that i, and some others mentioned earlier,

because: copter!

 

I'm certainly not ignoring them, I'm simply dismissing them as unconvincing.

 

Yes, coptering is a simple, yet powerful maneuver that makes a lot of weaker parkour content meaningless for you, if you so choose. Yes? Your point? Because that sounds awfully like Boltor Prime and Soma Prime being simple yet powerful guns that make many other weapons of the game meaningless.

 

So if that can be a thing in the combat part of the game, why can't it also be a thing in the parkour part of the game that when you get a weapon with powerful coptering abilities it allows you to bypass lower level parkour? Progression gets you more powerful and allows you to brute-force skip tediousness, sound like standard RPG progression.

 

I can bypass the annoyance of low level combat by bringing overwhelming firepower into it, why shouldn't I be able to do the equivalent with parkour? Especially since I joined this game because of its FPS and RPG, not Platformer elements.

 

and the funniest thing is,

you are even trying to make it look like it is hard to do ! LOL

making it look like you are incredibly proud that you mastered the highly complicated, fine art, of coptering,

and refuse to let go for whatever content is getting pointless because of it,

you only make it look like you cant go as fast without it.

 

You can overshoot, but no, its mostly not hard. Exactly like it's not hard to gun down a squad of Grineer with Boltor Prime. And yes, I could probably not go as fast if I wouldn't use it, when I do fell a need to use it. Just like it really looks like I can't gun down a squad of Grineer faster than with Boltor Prime.

 

You going anywhere with this?

 

a few of you dont even know that it IS a bug!

Probably cry on another Thread that you want some other Bug fixed,

but threatening DE to leave the game if the Copter BUG gets a fix,

telling some people directly or indirectly to go Copter or play alone with some other ''nubcakes''

things like that show how much you actually care for the Game,and the community,among some other statements.

 

Wow, a bug with its own animation for each weapon type and different constant coptering value for each weapon, where the minimum seems to coincidentally be set like that you can almost always trust you can at least grab that ledge and haul yourself up. 

 

Warframe needs more bugs like this.

 

Also,did you know that DE-Scott (i think) openly said that he want Coptering to be gone,

that DE was on it once to have it removed, but people were going crazy about it,

makes it seem like DE actually DO want it to be gone,no?

 

So? Your point? The playerbase is the one who plays and enjoys the game, What DE wants is not always the best. They might have benevolent goals for quality, but that does not mean that they always chose the right means for it.

 

I DE truly wants coptering gone, then they are simply wrong and its a good thing the player backlash stopped them. Community at work as it should be, for once.

 

And then theres PvP,

you guys like? yes?

you probably never even had a look at it i guess,

so,screw that content too along with many other things,huh?

Just RoflCopter all over the place in hopes to randomly hit somebody on accident on your way,

makes the PvP super awesome,nothing like a sad,bad,joke at all. lol

 

I'm open to the thought that you are right about coptering making for the worse PvP. But the thing is, unlike you, I don't agree with your premise that coptering is some bad thing that the PvE players just ignorantly hold onto and I think coptering adds great value to PvE, not makes it worse, so I'm sorry but PvE is more important than PvP. Maybe you could work out how to switch off coptering in PvP or something, but, as I said, lower priority than PvE.

Edited March 23, 2015 by IronRoby

[Spectrah]

You'll find that using PvP aspects as an argument for change to the PvE part of the game is somewhat frowned upon on these forums.

 

There is a PvP feedback section on these forums that is currently filled with threads about coptering and PvP is balanced separately (thank god). So feel free to bring your arguments there.

Well,first off,

this Thread here is about Coptering itself,

its about that Bug on Mellee Weapons in general,

 

So i would think that it is perfectly fine to mention how it completely breaks the PvP,

aslong as that isnt my only point that i mention,wich it isnt,i mentioned quiete a few points along with some other things.

 

also,there are Moderators here,no?

if that one argument i brought up would be a problem,then im pretty sure one of them would fix that,

there is no need to act up like a moderator on your own (thank god),

since we have them already,most probably also watching this Thread.

So feel free to send in an application,to become a moderator yourself.

 

If we were to talk about coptering in PvP we would also have to mention the fact that your average PvP map is the size of a single void tower hall of which there are many in a one PvE mission... for an example.

 

And that speaks FOR Coptering?

only makes it more annoying in there,no?

One could think the Map is small to encourage encouters,Battles.

 

and beside that aspect, i mentioned PvP (among many other things),

because it shows quiete well how broken and destructive that BUG can be in various aspects of the game,

but im not going to mention them again and again,spinning in circles.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Nova teleport? Loki switch teleport?

 

Haha, yeah, but imagine the possibilitie of a real portal gun in warframe. xD DE needs to do this for 1st april.

 

Sry for OT. I don't think there will be a consensus anyways.

[lautalocos]

im worried about it making parkour 2.0 useless. why would i wall run trough the level when coptering can take me trough the level faster?

[SIDESTRE4M]

Maybe because other people like parkouring and looking cool while taking a challenge.

 

Just a random thought.

 

Might surprise some people that someone is not entirely focused on rewards and time.

[Absens]

We need to run faster, coptering needs to be removed, along with directional melee ( by removing i mean the idiotic speed boost of course )

 

I have shown this games videos to some of my friends, none of them took it seriously since they seen 4 space ninjas doing some idiotic spinning instead of actually running around

[Spectrah]

Yes, coptering is a simple, yet powerful maneuver that makes a lot of weaker parkour content meaningless for you, if you so choose. Yes? Your point? Because that sounds awfully like Boltor Prime and Soma Prime being simple yet powerful guns that make many other weapons of the game meaningless.

So,by that logic:

if everybody would shoot with overpowered rocketlaunchers,basicly breaking the game, because nothing else in a group with people using them would matter,then thats fine,you just dont have to use it ?

Very Valid point there,so why even bother with Parcour 2.0?

People like you wont be using it anyways,making it pretty meaningless since Coptering as it is will still be easier,and for most people faster.

 

also,my Boltor usage is a whole 1% btw,but that doesnt matter,Weapon-talk and balance is a whole dif topic,and got nothing to do with Coptering on Melees.

 

 

Progression gets you more powerful and allows you to brute-force skip tediousness, sound like standard RPG progression.

 

Are you Serious?

Talking about progression about Coptering?

you know that you can copter right away with a Bo for example,no?

Waiting for the beloved Tipedo isnt a real progression since you can cover almost the same distance with said weapon,

bringing up this whole ''progression'' thing is a joke on that matter.

 

You can overshoot, but no, its mostly not hard. Exactly like it's not hard to gun down a squad of Grineer with Boltor Prime. And yes, I could probably not go as fast if I wouldn't use it, when I do fell a need to use it. Just like it really looks like I can't gun down a squad of Grineer faster than with Boltor Prime.

 

You going anywhere with this?

 

Did you even read what i said?

and what some others said before,how they were making it look like Coptering is hard to do?

So yes i was going somewhere with it,and you prove me right by saying yourself that Coptering IS easy to do.

And again,Weapons,other than Melee,dont matter here,if almost everybody keeps killing entire rooms with OP rocketlaunchers then that would need a ''fix'' too,

and it shouldnt be just ignored with a ''then dont use it''.

 

Wow, a bug with its own animation for each weapon type and different constant coptering value for each weapon, where the minimum seems to coincidentally be set like that you can almost always trust you can at least grab that ledge and haul yourself up. 

 

Warframe needs more bugs like this.

 

That animation is not MADE for Coptering,it is an Mid-Air Melee animation,like the Ground-Strike.

All that Coptering is,is a flaw in the Engine.

And i dont think that Warframe need even more Bugs,and also shouldnt start calling a flaw in the Engine a ''Feature''.

 

So? Your point? The playerbase is the one who plays and enjoys the game, What DE wants is not always the best. They might have benevolent goals for quality, but that does not mean that they always chose the right means for it.

 

I DE truly wants coptering gone, then they are simply wrong and its a good thing the player backlash stopped them. Community at work as it should be, for once.

 

And your Point?

by your logic,if everything would be like the ''community'' (biggest Chunk of it is silent btw,like i was) want it to be,

then Viver and other things would be still around,people wiping entire floors on almost every Map by the press of button number 4.

the game would be full of totally overpowered things on all areas.

the entire game would be a boring redundant cakewalk without any difficulty and challenge at all whatsoever.

 

 

Also,how comes you dont say anything about the Main-reasons against Coptering that i brought up?

how it makes so many Mods,Stats and the other things i brought up basicly meaningless ?

got nothing to say against those,hm?

You just dont use any of that,like so many others do,because you chose to,making a big Chunk of the game meaningless,proving me right.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Spectrah

[Noble_Cactus]

You completely left out the reasons I wrote why I hate it.

 

Yes, parkouring is clunky and I cannot blame people for ignoring it. Nevertheless there exists a gap between players.

 

A gap that can be closed by improving the game's parkour, which is one of DE's major projects this year. Perhaps coptering can be incporporated into a more cohesive parkour system where it's powerful option among many other powerful options? The main problem is that we have a dearth of linear movement options that are reliable and can be done in most situations; copters and air slashes fill that gap. Slide flips do one thing most copters can't do, even, which is to fling us to higher ledges from a run/slide.

[Ryjeon]

Maybe because other people like parkouring and looking cool while taking a challenge.

 

Just a random thought.

 

Might surprise some people that someone is not entirely focused on rewards and time.

 

I don't use coptering for rushing. I use it and slide momentum in general to stay mobile and lethal in melee combat. I use it in combination with the other mobility and parkour tools to maintain reactive positioning. When I want to move quickly through a room I prefer slide-jumping and wall vaulting with some copter mixed it in. I think it's a problem that most anti-copter people only look at it as a rushing tool and don't understand its importance as a mid-air positioning tool in the melee dance.

 

In short I use copter as a melee attack and reposition tool. Its momentum boosting capacity is a vital characteristic of its combat capability and is part of what gives melee combat its overall feel. And I think it's important to have tools to quickly move through levels so you can respond to players who are downed in endless missions, so you can reach them quickly enough with time to take care of the enemies and pick them up. I don't think making everyone slower would improve the game.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Ryjeon

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Uhhh actually coptering is a huge part of endless void..

The ability to dodge and zoom past hordes of enemies is important and with the way that warframe works (movement freedom, enemies have guns, large maps) it is something important that is necessary in the game, even when we get par 2.0

[Suthurn]

without coptering frames like frost would be so terrible to play.  ...hold on guys, i'll get there in a few minutes   ...the entire mission.

 

anyhow, if you are mad about coptering why don't you bring up perma-invis loki. i can use him and join any game and just run (copter) to the objectives and finish the mission with an average of 0 kills. lol   ...unless its an exterminate of course. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

A gap that can be closed by improving the game's parkour, which is one of DE's major projects this year. Perhaps coptering can be incporporated into a more cohesive parkour system where it's powerful option among many other powerful options? The main problem is that we have a dearth of linear movement options that are reliable and can be done in most situations; copters and air slashes fill that gap. Slide flips do one thing most copters can't do, even, which is to fling us to higher ledges from a run/slide.

Believe me, I'm eager to see what they will do.

 

I don't use coptering for rushing. I use it and slide momentum in general to stay mobile and lethal in melee combat. I use it in combination with the other mobility and parkour tools to maintain reactive positioning. When I want to move quickly through a room I prefer slide-jumping and wall vaulting with some copter mixed it in. I think it's a problem that most anti-copter people only look at it as a rushing tool and don't understand its importance as a mid-air positioning tool in the melee dance.

 

In short I use copter as a melee attack and reposition tool. Its momentum boosting capacity is a vital characteristic of its combat capability and is part of what gives melee combat its overall feel. And I think it's important to have tools to quickly move through levels so you can respond to players who are downed in endless missions, so you can reach them quickly enough with time to take care of the enemies and pick them up. I don't think making everyone slower would improve the game.

Again people connect it to speed.

At some point we will have to make sacrifices for a healthier game. Coptering and directional melee have become so ridiculous, that speed difference between copter and noncopter is so high that it's gamebreaking.

 

Part of the problem is unrewarding melee, so people don't care about strong swords. Can't copter, not for me - mentality. You totally gimp yourself and perhaps your contribution to the team when you are too slow. And funny thing is, you aren't even slow... not by using the game how it's intended. Instead others are blazingly fast because of a glitch DE refused to take care of and after years of coptering, simply removing it won't do.

They have to make it a move that's separate from equipped melee. Balancing melee including copterability doesn't work. Melee 2.0 doesn't work.

 

There are a lotvof things that contribute to that problem.

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

I have have a solution to your helicoptering problems, all of you really. Might have to just get a bit imaginative with usernames. Instead of changing this, which a lot enjoy, so it is impossible for anyone to ever use it again. Pay the, what? 150p to change your name to like NoHelicop%&^ so people in match making know that you do not appreciate helicoptering, and not use it/leave squad.

 

It really is the best win/win solution I can think of.

 

Edited March 24, 2015 by BloodForTheBloodGods

[Spectrah]

I have have a solution to your helicoptering problems, all of you really. Might have to just get a bit imaginative with usernames. Instead of changing this, which a lot enjoy, so it is impossible for anyone to ever use it again. Pay the, what? 150p to change your name to like NoHelicop%&^ so people in match making know that you do not appreciate helicoptering, and not use it/leave squad.

 

It really is the best win/win solution I can think of.

Well,

i totally believe you,

no,seriously...

i totally believe you!

That this really is the best ''solution'' YOU can think of.

 

Thanks for this precious addition to the Topic and the enlightment that you brought upon us.

Topic can be closed,the problem is finally solved.

Kudos to the allknowing and incredibly funny BloodForTheBloodGods.

We all can be proud to have such highly entertaining tryhard Comedy-Trolls with us.

 

Might wanna join the ''Badboyz'' that someone mentioned earlier,and go for a 4 man 40min T4 with them,to feel all pro and badass,

you would be a great addition.

Oh,and its 200p for that,a simple 5 second Google search would have shown you,but nobody is perfect,and you,are also VERY special :)

Edited March 24, 2015 by Spectrah

[Kayblis]

did you guys ever use rush,or some other movement mod,probably not,huh ?

decided to go fast,and picked a frame with high movement speed for it,or one with good abilities to do so,probably not,huh ?

learning maps so you are able to wallrun on certain spots and such to increase your speed,probably not,huh?

ect,ect...  dont wanna repeat myself spinning in circles.

 

you do realize that directional melee never existed until recently and you couldn't copter vertically before right? you HAD to use wallrunning/jumping to reach some places where coptering wouldn't take you to

saying "coptering removes any and all parkour" is just stupid unless you JUST started playing

[SIDESTRE4M]

I have have a solution to your helicoptering problems, all of you really. Might have to just get a bit imaginative with usernames. Instead of changing this, which a lot enjoy, so it is impossible for anyone to ever use it again. Pay the, what? 150p to change your name to like NoHelicop%&^ so people in match making know that you do not appreciate helicoptering, and not use it/leave squad.

 

It really is the best win/win solution I can think of.

I'm impressed, you even used the same post in different topics.

That doubles the brilliance of your solution.

 

 

you do realize that directional melee never existed until recently and you couldn't copter vertically before right? you HAD to use wallrunning/jumping to reach some places where coptering wouldn't take you to

saying "coptering removes any and all parkour" is just stupid unless you JUST started playing

 

Well recently = nearly a year or so. I's not like it just got introduced yesterday or so.

 

Edited March 24, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[Mesyra]

Ho, please. Its not a play-style. Its an exploit, plain and simple.

You say that it isn't a play-style, but it is.

 

You just dont want people to move so quickly because you dont find it fun.

 

If it was an exploit, which it isnt, it would have been removed with the addition of Melee 2.0, but it wasnt, it was expressed countless times that coptering is never going to be removed.

 

Either play solo, because every mission except the raid can be solo'd. or stop complaining. 

 

Even if the removed coptering, we still have directional melee, which my favourite weapons are even better at.

[SIDESTRE4M]

It's not about playstyle, it's about balancing of options.

(And yes it's an exploit, but DE ignored it because people liked it)

 

Like I said before:

As long as melee isn't rewarding, people will chose their weapons on copter capability.

As long as you can fly like Zephyr with tonbo, any try to implement parkouring in normal tilesets is just a waste of time.

Edited March 24, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[Spectrah]

you do realize that directional melee never existed until recently and you couldn't copter vertically before right? you HAD to use wallrunning/jumping to reach some places where coptering wouldn't take you to

saying "coptering removes any and all parkour" is just stupid unless you JUST started playing

 

Never said that it removes ''any and all parkour'',

but overall,ultimately,considering how it is being used, does it make parcour meaningless imo,yes.

and what youve said doenst really speak much for Coptering at all.

 

So,if you wanna go UPWARD,then you need parcour,or a directional Melee,right.

i totally admit that Coptering doesnt take away a thing about going UPWARD,

but that doenst make it any less of a problem,or change the fact that it is a Bug in the Engine,amongst all other things that were mentioned.

 

So,what about all those other points against Coptering that were mentioned?

if we would list them up,then im pretty sure that the ''Pro-Copter'' pile would be a lot smaller than the ''Con-Copter'' pile,

if ''cant go up with it'' is all you got to speak for it.

 

And thanks for trying to indirectly call me stupid,

as you mention ''and you couldn't copter vertically before'',

didnt know that is a thing now,

might wanna pick your own Nose first.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Spectrah

[tomrair]

Maps are not big. your all just impatient.

How can I play how I want, when people are exploiting to get though the game? Its like saying someone should stop being black because everyone else is white.

 

Dude, your problem is not with the movement mechanics, your problem is that you play with random people. If you want a pure stealth game where you can go through the missions slowly and methodically (and there's nothing wrong with that), then you've got two options:

You can buy yourself a solo-player stealth game. There's plenty of those out there. Or, you can join a Clan with players who share your preferences.

 

But instead, you come here and demand that Warframe should be taylored to your and only your preferred playstyle. Bit egocentric, don't you think?

[Second_Measure]

I copter less, but use more of the uppercut swing of weapons to jump on rather high locations on tiles.

 

While I do enjoy taking shortcuts, coptering kind of feels like you just ignore the challenge of the tiles you are in.

Huge Grinner Shipyard tile with dozens of paths to the door, enviromental hazards and units just waiting for you to come around?

 

Just yolocopter over it! - And you made the map design useless.

 

I do kind of wish those old Grineer Asteroid tiles back, with the huge climbing/stairs/ramps section.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Second_Measure

[Spectrah]

Uhhh actually coptering is a huge part of endless void..

The ability to dodge and zoom past hordes of enemies is important and with the way that warframe works (movement freedom, enemies have guns, large maps) it is something important that is necessary in the game, even when we get par 2.0

 

You could also put more thought into your positioning,

there are more ways to dodge,

plus you got a good amount of different crowd-controll abilities,

and you can also start moving to extraction before the Sh*t hits the Fan,

instead of RoflCoptering past everything to make up.

 

 

without coptering frames like frost would be so terrible to play.  ...hold on guys, i'll get there in a few minutes   ...the entire mission.

 

Like quite a few mentioned earlier,it IS possible to keep up,even on Frost,without that SpinToSpeed Bug.

And im sure that somebody else would gladly do the Frost for you, if it would be that terrible to play for you without the RoflCopter.

 

 

Also,this whole Forum Business is...  well,lets just say no fun to me,normally not my kinda thing. (No Offense intended)

Playing Warframe for almost 2 years now,on and off with breaks,

and only 11 Forum Posts,10 of them in here, show that.

So i go back to the ''Shadows'' i came from,the place where the majority is sitting.

Feel free to Quote,twist my words,or throw some little phrases and sayings at me,whatever. :)

 

And to the ones that still think everybody and their Mothers love to Copter,this Thread showed something else,

its pretty much a 50/50 kinda thing,and the biggest Chunk of people remain Silent,dont say a thing in here,

like i will do again now too. :)

Edited March 24, 2015 by Spectrah