Helicoptering : Why Is It Still In The Game? O_O

[Kestral9999]

-Yet another wall of text I skimmed due to lack of interest-

Painting me as a troll for questioning your candor is unnecessary, everyone who calls you out is not a troll. Since I'm not a fan of lessons in futility, I'm going to do the right thing here and not reply to you save for these short sentences to give you a sense of closure and victory. Congratulations, you're a winner.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Kestral9999

[Spectrah]

@Kestral9999 -Dont take it too personal,

the thing is just that ive stated now multiple times here already,that i am done debating,that i dont want that anymore (for various reasons),and i havent since.

And you picked that up,knew it,yet you called me out,off-topic,pulling me back in.

(and sorry,but by definition that actually IS trolling)

 

to put it clear,i just wanna lurk,without callouts,since i feel im done here.

my apologies if you felt offended,but again,by DEFINITION,it actually was trolling what you did there,

 

 

and from now on,like ive said in my reply your way,im also done with Trolls,to not risk killing the Thread,

so matter what,no matter how offensive,untrue,twisted or whatever, any possible future quote of mine will be made look,

im done.

 

so,again, dont take it too personal man,because it wasnt,but im done here,

and now im out.

 

 

 

 

Edit: @Kestral9999:

you actually seem like somebody that i would enjoy exchanging opinions with,and alltogether like a nice guy,

but im done here, like ive said a few pages back already.

there is too much:  ''then play alone'', ''dont use it'', ''noob'' and whatnot going 'round for me in here,

even if those werent sent directly my way yet,i dont like the overall vibes that i pick up here for myself,being against the Copter.

Thats also pretty much why,my overall Offensive stand here,and why im done,and only returned to Hammer some Trolls down.

Sorry again that the Troll-Hammer swung your way for a moment ;)

We're on the same Side,just on different Units,or however you wanna put it.

Original post still stands like it is.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Spectrah

[Kestral9999]

So,just for you, Kestrall9999,i get back on Topic,

what do YOU think about, that a big part part of the playerbase:

 

does not use mods like Rush,Maglev ect?

does not Manage/Mod their Stamina?

does not use Parcour,for pretty much any other reason than going upwards?

does not pick a Frame for its Movementspeed,to go fast?

does not learn the Map to be fast in it?

does not mod or even use a Frames mobility ability?

does not pick a Mellee for its DMG/Moveset?

 

and replace basicly all of that,or atleast most,by simply Coptering?

So, this part is actually worth replying to.

 

I'd say the lack of use of said mods is due to those mods being less than effective, or that they are practically essential to a lot of frames (Rush on Vanguard Rhino is often a must) and should be integrated into them passively (like Serration for weapons).

 

The lack of stamina management is due to stamina being completely superfluous. If you could be bothered to read one of my more recent posts in this thread, I expressed that it needs to be revamped and coptering along side it. You've assumed that I'm a proponent of coptering as it is when I'm not. 

 

You'd have to show me a consensus that says everyone copters rather than using parkour. I know plenty of lower level players struggle with parkour but the majority of players I've encountered do a fair mix of both parkour, slide flipping, and coptering. Saying that all players do is copter is an inaccurate generalization.

 

A large number of players have expressed their love of Loki's base sprinting speed, I don't really see your point here. Usually if someone is running a slow frame on something besides Defense or Interception, they're likely compensating for it with arcane helmets, or mods. If they aren't they're probably coptering to compensate. It's always good to have options. That doesn't mean said option can't be improved.

 

Maps are randomly generated, not much point in memorizing them. If you play the same tileset enough times, you'll learn how to get through it quickly, with or without coptering.

 

This is likely due to many mobility moves being underpowered compared to directional melee. This needs to be corrected. Super Jump should be more useful than an upward air melee. Again, you're assuming I'm a proponent of coptering as is. You're good at that.

 

I don't see too many players using Fang over Dragon Nikana, Fang being much more useful for coptering than Dragon Nikana. Again, I don't really see your point here. If a player values coptering over weapon DPS, then that's their prerogative. Maybe they simply don't enjoy melee, and just use it as a means to a much quicker end.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Kestral9999

[Kestral9999]

@Kestral9999 -Dont take it too personal,

the thing is just that ive stated now multiple times here already,that i am done debating,that i dont want that anymore (for various reasons),and i havent since.

And you picked that up,knew it,yet you called me out,off-topic,pulling me back in.

(and sorry,but by definition that actually IS trolling)

 

to put it clear,i just wanna lurk,without callouts,since i feel im done here.

my apologies if you felt offended,but again,by DEFINITION,it actually was trolling what you did there,

 

 

and from now on,like ive said in my reply your way,im also done with Trolls,to not risk killing the Thread,

so matter what,no matter how offensive,untrue,twisted or whatever any possible future quote of mine will be made look,

im done.

 

so,again,dont dont take it too personal man,because it wasnt,but im done here,

and now im out.

Jesus H. Mother@(*()$ Christ...

 

((My 4,000th post is a blasphemous expletive at a lack of words for such inane rambling. No regrets.))

Edited March 26, 2015 by Kestral9999

[Kestral9999]

Yes, coptering needs reworking, it is not fine as is. I use it often, but not as my sole mode of transportation. I copter as much as I slide, flip, directional melee, and yes, even parkour. Those who see coptering as the solution to all the game's problems are problematic to the game's overall health as well. But to say that it needs to be removed altogether is asinine. It's one of the fundamental features of this game. Yes a feature, it originating as a bug does not make it incapable from becoming a feature as the two are not mutually exclusive. Make it so that it has less attraction as a mobility tool without making it unviable as a mobility tool (i.e. stamina dependence), rework the animation for it, maybe even make a few mods that alter how coptering works, and it could be on it's way to become a completely recognized feature in the game.

Quoting myself for posterity's sake.

[TheJagji]

How was he supposed to see any of that? All anyone on the forums knows is that you played back when founders was available, you've made a meager 250 posts on the forums, and you spent a lot of money on Excalibur Prime and Skana Prime. That relays nothing about how much you've played since then. An MR0 could have done all that and hardly have touched the game.

 

I mean, you're right to defend yourself against misconceptions, but your complaint thread didn't really tell us anything about how much you've played the game. It came across to me like you took a long break after getting founders, came back, and then started the game up only to find that coptering was still in the game and you made a ragepost about it. I'm probably wrong. Feel free to tell me how wrong.

 

Granted, him belittling you unnecessarily does break the first rule of the forums. Where's a moderator when you need one? This thread has a mighty need.

 

1. Basing how long a player has been playing on there number of posts is the worst way to judge anything. People that post a lot (on this forum) are people that ether have a LOT of complaints, or people that are replying to said complaints.

 

2. I have been on a break. But not for THAT long. I never minded coptoring before. My main issue is that EVERYONE dose it now, and as it kind of kills the parkor, and makes it hard to do things you want to do in a level if you have a rusinging pansy in the game. Also, I should not need to state how long I have played a game to make a complaint. People that go 'I have been playing game X for Y hours' just come off as a bit dushie to me, so I try not to do it. I don't need to say how many hours I have played to make my point valid, and the only reason I said it there was because he said that. Simple as that.

 

 

Yes, coptering needs reworking

 

No... It needs to be removed. Its a bug. It should go where all bugs go. The rubbish.

[TheJagji]

bumping. why? Well... I want to maintain this thread, that's why. :P

[Nembilim]

No... It needs to be removed. Its a bug. It should go where all bugs go. The rubbish.

its not a bug. DE themselves said in one of the streams that they were contemplating about taking it out, but realized that it was something not seen before in other games. they decided to make it a full blown mechanic, which is why your Tipedo and Halikar launch you while your Scindo Prime doesnt. 

[superbot34]

I am flabbergasted at the popularity of this thread. 

 

people will always find exploits to rushing, nerfing them does more harm then good. 

 

and don't even give me the "well you see logically..." just stop. using the logic excuse in a videogame is the worst thing you could do. 

 

slide attacks are never going away, it's a core maneuvering system and a system only really fast melee weapons can do to get around quickly anyway. 

[TheJagji]

I am flabbergasted at the popularity of this thread. 

 

people will always find exploits to rushing, nerfing them does more harm then good. 

 

and don't even give me the "well you see logically..." just stop. using the logic excuse in a videogame is the worst thing you could do. 

 

slide attacks are never going away, it's a core maneuvering system and a system only really fast melee weapons can do to get around quickly anyway. 

 

Not asking for slide attacks to go. I am asking for stupied speeds to go. Your meant to fight though, for example, Void missions, not skip them all the content. People complain about grinding, but I bet there also the people who go and coptor all the time. If they just played the game without skipping enemy kills, in the non endless modes, then there would be LESS grind because instead of skipping S#&$ to get a rewards, they would be playing the god dame game.

 

Then there is the Co-Op. The game is a Co-Op game, and should be designed to be as such. Coptoring dose not help co-op game play. It hinders it. It makes people who don't know, or don't want to copter left in the dust, leaving them to fend for them self. This dose NOT sound like the way of a Tenno.

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

1. In void captures you get rewarded with bonus credits for completing the mission more quickly.

2. You don't understand grind, at least not the way most do. The grind is repeatedly doing the same mission (T4 Capture for example) to get your desired reward. You're already encouraged to complete it fast, but even if you weren't you generally will have to complete that same mission 5 times, to get that Prime part. Add in the fact you have to farm these T4 keys. Grind for grind.

3. Some people don't have as much time as you and have probably run this exact mission 10+ times

4. If you want to spend time admiring the scenery in the void, try a Sabotage mission.

5. Try actually matchmaking with people of similar interests.

6. Your squad should not have to baby you and hold you hand.

 

TL;DR , You have the ability to control who is in your squad, USE IT. Don't cry for an unnecessary nerf.

 

Me and my friends are brain storming elite level enemies purposely designed to kill Tenno, but only to spawn in missions with 2 or more players. I'm only bringing this up here because it'd make rushing missions carelessly, deadly. Will link to post when finished :)

 

 

Edited March 28, 2015 by BloodForTheBloodGods

[Sangiros]

^ For a rebuttal, please explain the massive number of pubs who report you for "harmful actions" because you either can't or won't copter your way with them.

Yes, there's players who =will= report you for making them wait one full minute because of not keeping up with their rushing.

And let me remind you all about all the flaming around the chats and the forums, again because people can't copter and rush it to the end... During the last Halloween event. Four days of Exterminate missions where you were supposed to take your time and explore the maps for the hidden caches, getting ruined by duos who didn't knew the purpose of the event, or were downright trolling and denying the rewards for the other two players in the team.

I could even mention how copterers =love= double-teaming to the end of Syndicate missions exactly to deny others finding medals and extra standing. Which ironically would be considered "harmful gameplay" just like the example above.

But noooo, let us stone those who refuse to follow your creed...

[CapedBaldy]

What about the people who don't use copter to skip content but use copter to fight content?

 

It's one of the few ways to reposition and disengage quickly enough to avoid getting hit. I use it when I know I'm about to lose a fight in survivals. Also, it's a good way to change directions midair. If you remove copter you remove yet another skill based way to do maneuvers and relocate. It takes a lot of fine tuning and control to be able to land exactly where you want to. Sure, give it some tweaks and an animation upgrade, but don't remove it. I was under the impression people wanted more skill based gameplay, not less.

[TheJagji]

6. Your squad should not have to baby you and hold you hand.

 

Do you even know what a co-op means? Cooperative. e.g. Working together. Helping out your team.Coptoring dose NOT achieve this in anyway. All it dose is make others feel like they need to keep up.

[IronRoby]

What?

 

1. Its a bug. Has always been a bug. Will always be a bug. End of story.

 

This desperate Bug mantra is starting to become amusing.

 

Bugs are unintended side effects that can happen when making a program or a game. Upon discovery of their source in the code, they get fixed.

 

Even if coptering started out as a one, as soon as DE discovered it and consciously decided to not fix it, even if it would have been very easy, then coptering is no longer an unintended part of the game by the developers, for better or worse, and thus not a bug anymore.

 

It does not matter if many in DE might want to remove it, actions speak louder than intentions and the fact is that coptering exists in the game at DE's allowance and consent. Even if that consent is grudging and the only reason it has not been removed is that DE is afraid of their customers' reactions does not give you the right to call it a bug anymore. Wanting to please and not wanting to anger your customers is a very valid reason for developers to make decisions about the game and even if we don't like those decisions sometimes, you have to accept that DE did indeed made them.

 

Basically, could you stop being incredibly patronizing to DE? Simply stating your extreme dislike of coptering is one thing, but by calling it a bug you are implying that DE has been unable to fix a bug of such proportions that everybody has known about, and for so long, for what would probably be a five minute fix for any of their programmers.

 

If coptering is still a bug, then DE is the most incompetent game developer about fixing bugs ever.

 

 Coporting to get to some place is not a valid reason for keeping it, as there are PLENTY of none bug ways to do it. Your just to lazy to do anything else.

 

Yes, because those other ways are too platformy. And not wanting to play a platformer is not actually laziness, it's not wanting to play a platformer, especially in a game advertised as FPS/RPG. No more, no less.

 

And if you want more valid reasons: most players who know about coptering like it and want to keep it. A business like DE needs no other valid reason. You are not a brave voice of some sort of a silent majority, who has arrived to lead the revolution of the common Tenno against the corrupt Coptering Elite. You are just yet another guy whining in the forums about how the whole playerbase should be forced to play like you want. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by IronRoby

[RealPandemonium]

1. In void captures you get rewarded with bonus credits for completing the mission more quickly.

The credit reward doesn't change regardless of whether you captured two targets or how long you take to do it.  

 

 

^ For a rebuttal, please explain the massive number of pubs who report you for "harmful actions" because you either can't or won't copter your way with them.

No one reports for that.  Even if they did, their report would be disregarded and they would eventually be penalized for abusing the report system.

[Eirshy]

Not wanting to bother with the whole 9 pages or reading through the entirity of the OP's whine...

 

I feel it is very important to note that:

You can get nearly the same mobility as a Quickening Zerker Fury Zorens via a rush mod and looping butt-flips (run slide jump slide run repeat) with a good grasp of the tile's layout and where you're going.

 

The only time that isn't true is when you're running a Hobbled Dragon Key, in which case the QZF Zorens are a damn good idea so you can actually keep up.

 

Coptering is still in because of three major reasons.

1) There's plenty of other ways to achieve the same effect without limitting your melee selection if you merely git gud.

2) It was an amusing glitch that people liked when it first was introduced.

3) It may as well be the only way to run anything other than Volt/Loki with Hobbled and not want to kill yourself

 

Personally, I tried going slow once.... It was awful.

 

 

Okay I lied I read the OP's whine.

It sounded like to me he was describing permastealth Loki. This has probably been said before lol

Edited March 28, 2015 by TheBlueJelly

[Yorinar]

I don't believe warframes should be slow and methodical, though the current basic movement mechanics (walking, sprinting, jumping, recovering from knockdown) would make you think they are.  But I agree fully that coptering is terrible.  It looks like garbage, DE has admitted it was a bug, and it's terrible.  Plus it looks like garbage. :P

Edited March 28, 2015 by Yorinar

[fatpig84]

Coptering and directional melee are important for this game.

Because they are fun.

 

More fun than anything else.

Yeah it is an exploit with the physics engine, but that is what makes Warframe fun to play for me.

 

[Sangiros]

Coptering is the new wavedash, then? :P Hope it gets treated the same way then

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

We just call it 'coptering, y'know. lol

[Thebel]

Wall runs are too unreliable, too many times I've tried and just get sling-shotted in some direction instead of wall running. 'Coptering I know will send me in the direction I want at least.

[ExPotato]

Rushing like crazy in any map wouldn't be NECESSARY it you haven't done that map 976546541498415 times already

But THAT'S Warframe, you MUST rush because it is a GRIND game. If you're going to do the same map for at least 3 times without being able to rush, you'll just give up...

[TheJagji]

Rushing like crazy in any map wouldn't be NECESSARY it you haven't done that map 976546541498415 times already

But THAT'S Warframe, you MUST rush because it is a GRIND game. If you're going to do the same map for at least 3 times without being able to rush, you'll just give up...

 

Its only a grind if you make it one. lol

[VampirePirate]

The problem isn't with coptering. It's with the movement system as a whole.

 

Coptering is a bug, a result of the "movement system".  With knowing that this is a bug, DE decided to keep it in the game because of popular demand.

 

I don't fully understand this.  Like the OP said, why?