The Manic, Is A Stage Towards Anti Progression

[Cpl_Facehugger]

His invulnerability is very brief and he seems to only use this to teleport away, after that he can be hurt again. So it's not like he is just turning invulnerable while he has the opportunity to tear you to shreds. If his invulnerability must go, then i'd like for him to remain tanky or to be given more health/armor so he isn't just some 1 shot wonder.

 

He goes invulnerable to try and tear me to shreds all the time. The only reason it doesn't work is because I main rhino, so he's gotta chew through my iron skin first.

He's already pretty tanky for his level, too, and I don't necessarily mind that. But he should absolutely lose the invincibility, and it'd be good if he lost the healing so that the player using hit and run tactics against him would work. He's still fast enough that gunning him down is a challenge, and the invisibility lets him get close. He doesn't need the invulnerability.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Arceus255]

Just spam melee. Literally, every encounter I've had with a Manic I just spammed melee like my life was leading up to that specific moment in time and then the manic died.

[EmptyDevil]

He goes invulnerable to try and tear me to shreds all the time. The only reason it doesn't work is because I main rhino, so he's gotta chew through my iron skin first.

He's already pretty tanky for his level, too, and I don't necessarily mind that. But he should absolutely lose the invincibility, and it'd be good if he lost the healing so that the player using hit and run tactics against him would work. He's still fast enough that gunning him down is a challenge, and the invisibility lets him get close. He doesn't need the invulnerability.

 

I'm not calling you a liar but i'm still having a hard time believing he goes invulnerable to attack you. I've played around with them A LOT and not once has one did that to me. I'll have to do some more testing.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I'm not calling you a liar but i'm still having a hard time believing he goes invulnerable to attack you. I've played around with them A LOT and not once has one did that to me. I'll have to do some more testing.

 

No, he doesn't go invulnerable to attack me. He goes invulnerable and then attacks me before his timer runs out. It's a somewhat different thing.

Part of it's probably my playstyle. When I see a manic, I whip out my scindo and attack him very aggressively. He usually goes invulnerable at some point during the fight and then, while invulnerable, I corner him and start wailing on him even though he's invulnerable in hopes of catching him when the invulnerability runs out. The problem is, while I'm going all tempo royale on his grineer booty, my iron skin is going down even though he's the only enemy there and he's invulnerable so I can't hurt him back. It's very frustrating and wholly unnecessary for an enemy who's main selling points are agility and cloaking.

[V0LK]

So you basically want a butcher with a Manic skin? It isn't invincible all the time as you're implying, it uses that phase to escape and return. When it is invisible you can still see it from the red glow of the eyes on it's back. It never attacks you from behind unless you turned around as it's running at you.

 

I want a fair enemy. Challenging but fair. Manic is not. Nullifiers are not.

 

He's invincible most of the time, he uses it to escape, return, attack and so on. He's invincible mid jump. I can blind or stun him and he's standing there fully invincible for a good three seconds. Then he's gone, next moment I'm already on the flood ready to be dead. Yes, he attacks from behind.

[KittyDarkling]

  Just my two cents,

      I've never had a problem with the maniac. Even playing on Loki (without using invisibility) he was quite easy to take care of. I find him really enjoyable actually! He's an interesting little challenge.

[BlazeBigBang]

I've just run into him once, sadly, I was under-equipped, leveling stuff, and he killed me. I didn't find hard to avoid his attacks, just that the fact that ge stealths every 2 freakin seconds and he's already healed didn't allow me o kill him.

Edited March 23, 2015 by BlazeBigBang

[SnakeWildlife]

I've just run into him once, sadly, I was under-equipped, leveling stuff, and he killed me. I didn't find hard to avoid his attacks, just that the fact that ge stealths every 2 freakin seconds and he's already healed didn't allow me o kill him.

 

Now imagine you have min maxed gear, and face a level 120+ Manic.

 

Anti Progression Cheap-Deaths, being constantly hounded by an enemy you cant kill with any weapon.

Edited March 24, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[AkerTheSpjot]

Now imagine you have min maxed gear, and face a level 120+ Manic.

 

Anti Progression Cheap-Deaths, being constantly hounded by an enemy you cant kill with any weapon.

Anything can one hit you when their levels are high enough

Remember Escalation ? Lvl 150 Napalms, Ballistas,...

[SnakeWildlife]

Anything can one hit you when their levels are high enough

Remember Escalation ? Lvl 150 Napalms, Ballistas,...

 

Yeah, you could actually kill them.

[MichaelSD]

 

I want a fair enemy. Challenging but fair. Manic is not. Nullifiers are not.

 

He's invincible most of the time, he uses it to escape, return, attack and so on. He's invincible mid jump. I can blind or stun him and he's standing there fully invincible for a good three seconds. Then he's gone, next moment I'm already on the flood ready to be dead. Yes, he attacks from behind.

 

 

Besides that the maniac does not fit the Greneer theme at all, it is only annoying, much like the Nullifier. I do not mind challenges and new type of challenges, but they are not increasing playability.

[Reidmaster]

I'm sorry, but unless you are fighting like a lvl 60 manic there is no way he can insta-kill you. When I was trying to get him scanned (by hand, not with Helios mind you) I would end up standing still and he was only able to take at most 1/4th of my health at a time (granted the bleed procs are quite OP but still). I have yet to come across a manic that can actually insta-kill someone.

[Tharrick]

And I return to the thread. Having said 'I'll fight a few more and then form an opinion'... I have fought a few more, and have now formed my opinion.

 

My opinion is that I have no idea what the Manic looks like in-game, because between invisibility and bright glowy invulnerability shield, I've never actually *seen* one. I've seen a glowing blob on a lot of occasions, and every now and again one of my squad mates reports that he's killed it, but other than the one I managed to shoot (the first one, the one I mentioned in my post who happily shrugged off a red-crit headshot from a multi-forma'd potato'd split chamber'd Dread) I haven't actually done any damage to one at all. Given that I've fired a good couple of hundred arrows, maybe a thousand bullets from an assortment of secondary weapons, and probably blunted my Ripkas to the point where I may need to build a new one, that's a bit of a pain.

 

It's a shame, because I like the concept. But when you introduce an enemy that's capable of going invisible, healing itself to full and rendering itself completely invulnerable to any attack, you're going to wind up with players like me, who seem to be first in line for when RNG wants to take a giant steaming dump on someone's head, who get the short end of the stick.

 

 

I'm sorry, but unless you are fighting like a lvl 60 manic there is no way he can insta-kill you. When I was trying to get him scanned (by hand, not with Helios mind you) I would end up standing still and he was only able to take at most 1/4th of my health at a time (granted the bleed procs are quite OP but still). I have yet to come across a manic that can actually insta-kill someone.

 

The first one I ever ran into was on what was admittedly a Nightmare alert. Still, while Mesa isn't the tankiest of frames, she has decent HP and half-decent armour, boosted somewhat by a maxed vitality and a mid-level steel fibre mod. First hit it landed, while I was running around trying to see where it was, dropped me. An ally revived me, and within about 10 seconds, it had hit me again, knocking me off my feet and allowing it to use its finisher to kill me before I could stand back up.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Tharrick

[ECaly]

Manics only spawn if the alarm is not turned off.

Don't like Manics? Turn off alarms

[KoboldRock]

I think the manic is quite fun and challenging. I haven't managed to kill him solo yet, as neither my aim nor my weapons are really the best (poorly nodded grinlok, twin gremlins, and an unpotatoed atterax)

So far, he's killed me twice, on my first and second encounter with him, every time after we've just traded blows until he got tired of me and went away. :P

However, both deaths were the most fun I've had dying in this game so far.

Best one was when I was farming Lech Kril on Ceres for a frost chassis as frost. I got Kril down to his melee stage, then Mr. Manic decides to show up. After a bit, the Manic pounces on me, slaps my shields down and eats into my health a bit, and I notice Kril has run up next to us, and I see his hammer comes down right as the manic leaps off of me, and k.o. XD

So yeah, I like him and don't think that he really needs to be changed, except maybe tone down the bleed proc just a little.

Edited March 24, 2015 by KoboldRock

[AkerTheSpjot]

Yeah, you could actually kill them.

I agree that the invincibility coupled with health regen is straight up annoying, especially in late game, and either one needs to go. Other than that, Maniacs are fine imo

Edited March 24, 2015 by The_Vile_Blade

[Temporary]

Sometimes you just have bad luck with running into a big group and they manage to set the alarm off anyway.

He doesn't appear as soon as you set the alarm off (I purposely set it off every time just to spawn him), you always have plenty of time to go to a console and hack it back to normal unless you're incredibly bad at the game. OP is a founder so he "should" have enough practice but judging on his comments this isn't the case.

[-rori--Golden_Demon]

So far I have just encountered manics at the end of the mission (so I could either stay and fight him, or just flee away) and on raids (where you are just never alone), and the only problem I have with him is... he should be THE Stalker.

 

It's mindblowing a "regular" troop is scarier than the almighty, tenno-powered, shadow-stalking... uh, Stalker. Does not make sense. At all.

 

Other than that, the only trouble someone could get with him is playing alone with low gear... since he does move way too chaotically, is hard to kill due to all that regen, and punches hard. A possible solution for those situations? Don't allow him to spawn on solo missions, or where tenno is low level (which, I guess, is a measure already in place).

[Marthrym]

They just drag fights forever without adding any fun or challenge to the balance. Which plain sucks. If they were fun and actually challenging (seriously they SUCK so hard, anyone thinking challenge when facing them clearly has no idea what this word means) then I'd be cool with it. But they're really not. They're forced to use cheap mechanics to counter our OP guns. Damage output is key, as always, while "skill" and "experience" are out the window. Welcome to WarGUNS.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Marthrym

[-Sensei-Legacy-]

me and my friend were attack by the maniac several times, dont think he is even hard! no one of us even started to bleed out and we only tried to scan him. so the insta kill mecanic? never heard of it and never noticed it. and if he is so weak why not just shoot him and keep him away from u. he aint that hard to kill!

[PrimeLabsInc]

The manic adds a fresh duelist-mecahnic to the game and it's fun to fight an actually challenging enemy for once. So what are people talking about? The manic is fun and a good addition to the game. Although his slash proc on higher levels is a bit ridiculous IF he can catch you.

[Bouldershoulder]

I don't have the patience to read through all the pages, sorry for that. Maybe it's been already told, anyways:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Manic read

 

Also, Enemy Radar betrays him far too early to take any significant damage. Ember can stun him briefly. Nekros' shadows distract him well. Corrosive embolist with ruinous extension melts him in seconds.

 

brain-brain-brain-brain-brain    brain-brain-brain-brain-brain     brain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXBzE-Cpec

Edited March 24, 2015 by Bouldershoulder

[Shanoo]

Scanned 5 Manics manually, without a Helios. Never got even close to dying without giving him much of a fight. Encountered a couple of them later on, killed every single one for a chance at his stance, never got close to dying then either. Even if one had me pinned it didn't down me completely. I play Payday 2 a lot and kill dozens of Cloakers most of my days, though the two - Cloakers and Manics - are similar in design, they are in no way similar in their mechanics. Cloakers can't camouflage, Manics CAN'T one-hit down you, only similarity is their appearance and their characteristical sound of warning. I really like the design, I like the mechanics since they limit rambo-ing and rushing to a certain degree. I, for my part, appreciate the addition of Manics and enemies who aren't just push overs or bullet sponges. Never thought I would hear such whining from a fellow founder. And by the way, all caps-lock doesn't give your arguments any depth. ;P

[Kasarian]

When I was going against Krill on Ceres I found each and every time Manic that spawned rather... easy? Just 4 with Nova and he is too slowed down to do anything and the glow from being primed reveals his location... Though I admit his (or hers, it sounds to me like a female-grineer stalker) appearance gives more atmosphere to the run.

[CapedBaldy]

Cloakers are properly balanced. They are lethal but they have proper weaknesses. This thing is robust, has invulnerability phases, invisibility, great speed and heals through chip damage. And let's not forget the bleed damage.