420degreequicksopeswag Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 But even that doesn't stop me from killing thousands of Nullifiers because they are weak. So, they aren't challenges? Credit rewards nerfed, Frost Prime being removed, challenging enemies added - guys, that all happens for a reason. The credit nerf was unintentional, they reversed it. Frost prime has not been removed, he has been "moved to the prime vault."(I still have no clue why they did this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeLabsInc Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) So, they aren't challenges? The credit nerf was unintentional, they reversed it. Frost prime has not been removed, he has been "moved to the prime vault."(I still have no clue why they did this) The Corpus Nullifiers are challenges in the way that you can't apply warframe abilities to them. But without their nullifier-shield they are pretty much defenseless against any sort of weaponry. I killed a Corpus Nullifier with a lvl 15 Grakata, go figure. The shield sure withstands a lot of hits but you can just go through that shield and punch 'em right in the gabber. If the credit nerf was reversed, then I am sorry to not be up to date. Thank you for the information. And I can imagine why they relocated Frost Prime. For the new Prime Access, they needed more space in the drop tables and if there is too much stuff in said drop tables your chance of getting a particular item is smaller. Thus, removal of existing items from the drop table and relocation of these items into other drop tables has to follow to maintain balance. I guess that DE will have Frost Prime removed from the void drop tables until they are done with the changes and relocation to the void missions and release that. Once the void mission relocation has happened, DE might be able to reintegrate Frost Prime again (and Latron Prime and Reaper Prime) into another drop table because the missions and the scaling and whatnot will surely change greatly with the void relocation. Also, Frost Prime, Reaper Prime and Latron Prime have been around for a long time given that they were the first ever prime gear. Most of the player base has this stuff by now anyway. And I have faith in that people who don't will get a chance to acquire it again at some point - presumably after the void relocation. Edited March 24, 2015 by Powersocke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Gasp! One enemy that provides a challenge? Because an invulnerability phase is totally a factor that requires skill to counter and overcome. Oh wait, no, you just run around till it's over. Thanks, Obama. The dude has literally tackled me once. It's not that bad if he can dispel when he does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeLabsInc Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Because an invulnerability phase is totally a factor that requires skill to counter and overcome. Oh wait, no, you just run around till it's over. Thanks, Obama. The dude has literally tackled me once. It's not that bad if he can dispel when he does it. Yeah okay. I have to agree on that the invulnerability phase makes no sense. Yet. Once DE provides an explanation as to why this phase exists (maybe the ting we're seeing is just his dummy and meanwhile he is running around elsewhere and still be vulnerable, who knows) I am sure we will understand this enemy better. There needs to be a quest explaining this type of enemy. Like with the mutalist moas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defendor Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 He should just have a blocking phase that can be broken with enough damage instead of the invulnerability. Invulnerability is bad, yet for some reason DE seems to love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Why buff him? He is squsshy as "%#% XD Not in the Raid he isn't. We were fighting Uncle Hek at the end and there were 3-5 of em running around being a nuisance. They're too fast and teleport far too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Yeah okay. I have to agree on that the invulnerability phase makes no sense. Yet. Once DE provides an explanation as to why this phase exists (maybe the ting we're seeing is just his dummy and meanwhile he is running around elsewhere and still be vulnerable, who knows) I am sure we will understand this enemy better. There needs to be a quest explaining this type of enemy. Like with the mutalist moas. Even if it made sense, it would still be crap. Invulnerability phases with full enemy activity and no counter are just lazy design and a staple of artificial difficulty. There is no reason for it to be on this unit and it would be a much better unit without it. As it stands now, most people bugger off and ignore the thing when it happens. They added a terrifying, interesting and unique unit into the game, and then screwed it up for no apparent reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 The Grineer Manic is one of the few enemies that provide a decent challgen to the playerbase and yet you all reject it. Invincibility =/= difficulty. A fast and evasive enemy is challenging. You can use skill to avoid it. Making it invincible is not a challenge. It does not call for any skill from the player. Not only that, but they need better scaling. Not so much on health, but on movement speed and ability usage frequency for invisibility and leaps, which should go down with low level and up with higher level. A level 5 manic should not be as powerful, as fast or as tough as a level 50 manic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeLabsInc Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Even if it made sense, it would still be crap. Invulnerability phases with full enemy activity and no counter are just lazy design and a staple of artificial difficulty. There is no reason for it to be on this unit and it would be a much better unit without it. As it stands now, most people bugger off and ignore the thing when it happens. They added a terrifying, interesting and unique unit into the game, and then screwed it up for no apparent reason. Guess you're right. Invulnerability phase is not optimal and not the way to go. The least I want is an explanation as to why it ois a thing. I mean, I can deal with it. I dealt with multiple manics now and it's not too much of a problem. I just take longer to take this thing out of commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luster-Purge Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 He should just have a blocking phase that can be broken with enough damage instead of the invulnerability. Invulnerability is bad, yet for some reason DE seems to love it. DE loves the invuln because it's a cheap and easy way to artificially ensure players can't just pull the trigger and insta-kill anything with their boltor primes or synoid gammacors or whatever. Invincibility FORCES players to have to deal with threats. But this? You CAN'T deal with Manic. I've only encountered one but it was enough to prove there is not one iota of balance to this guy. And not in his stupid-high damage output that outclasses most bosses like *Lephantis* or even Corrupted Vor, not in the fact he's more of a threat than Stalker who will appear in a map if the alarm so much as gets triggered, and not the fact he's immune to CC for the most part. No, he's broken in that if he tackles you to the ground, you are dead as you can't stop him from chaining claw strikes at *all.* That's not fun when an enemy who is hard to track and causes bleed procs that already can kill most frames in seconds can gank you and you can't possibly save yourself because he's removed your ability to PLAY THE GAME by kicking him off instead of just laying there like a wuss and leading him carve you up to death because each of his attacks INDIVIDUALLY can not kill you, so they had to make him lock you down for CHEAP SHOTS. Until DE explains why such a horrible character concept that punishes people by having absolutely no slack provided for people who aren't MLG or whatever, I honestly am thinking of avoiding Grineer missions entirely because the Manic is broken. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasseopea Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Game mechanics =/= Lore. I don;t see why every mechanic in the game needs a Lore explanation behind it. I don't see how this infrgines on Lore as at best it's a deterrent to the Tenno, the tenno can still easily kill them. It's called "consistency" - a concepts many Devs and players wont get. This is also what makes Dark Souls a great game and Dying Light a piece of sh!t. Edited March 24, 2015 by Kasseopea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryme Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) It's called "consistency" - a concepts many Devs and players wont get. This is also what makes Dark Souls a great game and Dying Light a piece of sh!t. I think it's more that they have a misunderstanding of what the word "challenge" means, and have equated it to "not fun". At this rate, they may as well call a memory leak that randomly crashes the game a "challenge" "WTF, I was almost at extraction and then the game froze up and crashed. I lost all the loot I had found." "Pfft noob, it's called "hard mode". L2P." Edited March 24, 2015 by Ryme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DanteVincent Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 OMG DE keeps with their band aid moves, W T F. Take the nullifier, the best offensive and the best defensive unit that has a sniper, but also charges at you shooting with 100% accruacy his rifle no matter the distance. That whole arsenal of skills should've been divided into 2 enemies, AT LEAST. I'm on ps4 so i can't say about the maniac, but it sure as hell sounds like the same thing, take all the flaws of a faction and/or the meta itself and make one enemy counter them all. W T F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 valkyr in hysteria tackled by manic dead with no recourse good design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekrojiji Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm not scared. I can kill Manics just fine. I'm annoyed. One of the things I enjoyed about WF was the stigma of being a powerful badass Space Ninja, which is severely detracted from when you're being out-ninja'd by the GRINEER and everyone is capable of magically dispelling your powers because of reasons. No, it's not severely detracted from; it's flat out nonexistent. by saying that you admit that you are scared ..... the moment an enemy has the smallest chance to hurt you ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InoxMaximus Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Manic is finally a good enemy to fight but not strong enough. It needs some buffs. Ofc he should dispel he is anti tenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABAL Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm not scared. I can kill Manics just fine. I'm annoyed. One of the things I enjoyed about WF was the stigma of being a powerful badass Space Ninja, which is severely detracted from when you're being out-ninja'd by the GRINEER and everyone is capable of magically dispelling your powers because of reasons. No, it's not severely detracted from; it's flat out nonexistent. Oh, that doesn't stop there! Soon you'll be out-ninja'd by white-collar Corpus Clerks. Just you wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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