De Should Buy The Rights To Grinder App And Rename Wf

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Maybe what they define as a grind is different then what you consider a grind?  Has that thought even crossed your mind?

 

And why are we shaming a company for wanting to make money?

 

I'm not a fan of conspiracy threads.  Which is exactly this thread.

 

If WF isn't fun for you anymore then take a break.  I'm not saying WF is perfect.

 

But if you feel the need to make a conspiracy thread and openly insult people who enjoy the game (I.E the white knights) then you obviously need a reality check and need to step back and take a break for awhile.

[Achaix]

Okay, something tells me that you'll call me a white knight if I disagree with your point of view. Let's look at it objectively.

Digital Extremes created quite a few games, so calling them "amateurs" is downright childish.

WF is free to play, so DE will obviously need another reliable money source.

I play Warframe because I want to. You don't seem to share that sentiment, so why the hek would you use that many keys? Why would you keep farming? Why, in fact, are you playing the game?

The RNGesus has always been a problem, and it always will be. You don't like it? Then go play some other game.

If you really want to post complaints, just do so politely.

[Sairus002]

Maybe what they define as a grind is different then what you consider a grind?  Has that thought even crossed your mind?

 

And why are we shaming a company for wanting to make money?

 

I'm not a fan of conspiracy threads.  Which is exactly this thread.

 

If WF isn't fun for you anymore then take a break.  I'm not saying WF is perfect.

 

But if you feel the need to make a conspiracy thread and openly insult people who enjoy the game (I.E the white knights) then you obviously need a reality check and need to step back and take a break for awhile.

 

No one is shaming DE for wanting to make money. They're being criticized for the way they're doing it. They make content such a pain in the &#!, and so repetitive and frustrating, that they encourage buying this content and skipping all of the gameplay to get those items alltogether. What's the point then?

 

The better way to make money, would be to make things worth buying. Why are actually good cosmetics so few and far between? People would buy the crap out of them if there was more than just a handful of syandanas / armor sets and basic skins for weapons that no one uses. Look at the proto skin for excal. Why in hell is there not more of that? It's not like it takes a ton more work, it's just an alternate model.

 

"Maybe what they define as a grind is different then what you consider a grind?"

 

Please tell me how running the same identical mission 54 times, and making absolutely zero progress on your goal can be considered anything other than grind.

 

 

Okay, something tells me that you'll call me a white knight if I disagree with your point of view. Let's look at it objectively.

Digital Extremes created quite a few games, so calling them "amateurs" is downright childish.

WF is free to play, so DE will obviously need another reliable money source.

I play Warframe because I want to. You don't seem to share that sentiment, so why the hek would you use that many keys? Why would you keep farming? Why, in fact, are you playing the game?

The RNGesus has always been a problem, and it always will be. You don't like it? Then go play some other game.

If you really want to post complaints, just do so politely.

 

There's other ways to make money than to make the game so intollerable that people pay to skip it. That's exactly how they make money. Shortcuts. To encourage players to use those shortcuts, they make the normal path to these items over the top ridiculous. (Mesa, Vauban, Prime Access, etc)

 

You don't see a problem with that? I know they need money, but this kind of crap is why so many free to play games sink. This is not a sustainable business practice.

[Forgotten_Aeon]

No one is shaming DE for wanting to make money. They're being criticized for the way they're doing it. They make content such a pain in the !, and so repetitive and frustrating, that they encourage buying this content and skipping all of the gameplay to get those items alltogether.

There really is no point trying to reason with these people mate. Evidenced clearly in this topic and in others before it, they quote one line or sentence that could have been worded better, and criticize it while completely disregarding the entirety of the post and ignoring the entire message, as if their misguided and frankly ignorant attempt to discredit someone somehow invalidates the very honest and real nature of the situation.

[Achaix]

There's other ways to make money than to make the game so intollerable that people pay to skip it. That's exactly how they make money. Shortcuts. To encourage players to use those shortcuts, they make the normal path to these items over the top ridiculous. (Mesa, Vauban, Prime Access, etc)

You don't see a problem with that? I know they need money, but this kind of crap is why so many free to play games sink. This is not a sustainable business practice.

Hey, I never said WF was perfect. What I meant was that complaints should be respectful besides being direct. Who would you pay attention to;

- The guy who presents his points logically and suggests solutions to the predominant problems to the DE staff directly?

- Or the guy who yells his argument and insults everyone who disagrees with him?

[Sairus002]

There really is no point trying to reason with these people mate. Evidenced clearly in this topic and in others before it, they quote one line or sentence that could have been worded better, and criticize it while completely disregarding the entirety of the post and ignoring the entire message, as if their misguided and frankly ignorant attempt to discredit someone somehow invalidates the very honest and real nature of the situation.

 

Thank you. Finally a rational human being. These people need to google what a "strawman fallacy" is.

[Vargras]

You don't see a problem with that? I know they need money, but this kind of crap is why so many free to play games sink. This is not a sustainable business practice.

History would heavily disagree with you, given how many games use a F2P model and are still around after several years.

[Sairus002]

Hey, I never said WF was perfect. What I meant was that complaints should be respectful besides being direct. Who would you pay attention to;

- The guy who presents his points logically and suggests solutions to the predominant problems to the DE staff directly?

- Or the guy who yells his argument and insults everyone who disagrees with him?

 

I don't agree with the insults, personally. However, DE has shown in the past that they don't listen unless people scream in unison. Sometimes some passion is needed to get the point across. (Vivergate is a perfect example)

[vaugahn]

For you ACTUAL players who know how to criticize a game without blatantly hating on it...no.

 

There seems to be a misconception around here that hate automatically equals valid criticism. 

 

And then we go around and call everyone a white knight. Good job.

[Sairus002]

History would heavily disagree with you, given how many games use a F2P model and are still around after several years.

 

I never said free2play = unsustainable. I said the flaws in WARFRAME'S free to play model make IT unsustainable. Plenty of F2P games have survived, yes. Plenty more haven't. Many more, like Planetside 2, are rapidly sinking. It all boils down to this little thing called player retention. Pissing off or boring a large chunk of your player base, is not good for player retention. Not everyone has the tollerance for this BS that you might.

[Paroxysmal]

The way I look at it is if i was a newer player, running all these missions would eventually get you most of what you wanted before you even considered grinding for them

 

just because we already have a lot of stuff and have to grind for new stuff doesn't mean they are doing everything wrong. I do feel there are a few ways to fix the grind [that another game i play'd had done], and i understand the need for people to constantly be on DE about reducing it. But from reading the thread I do agree people not having the same view point don't seem to care to see the other and you guys are just bashing on each other or preaching to the choir.

 

Baseline is we do need threads like these to exist so DE understands people aren't happy with the grind, but at the same time seeing a new thread about it so often can get kinda annoying and start feeling like it is coming from the same set of people rather than a large portion of players.

 

(what the game i play'd had done was you earn a 'token' each time to ran a thing and with enough tokens you could 'buy' one of the things you were farming for so that way if you never got it to drop by chance you had an end goal for your farm)

[Sairus002]

(what the game i play'd had done was you earn a 'token' each time to ran a thing and with enough tokens you could 'buy' one of the things you were farming for so that way if you never got it to drop by chance you had an end goal for your farm)

 

You know what's funny, is that is exactly the idea behind the void trader. People were wanting these ducat things to be a form of grind mitigation. Trade in your crap for what you actually want. Instead, they turned it into a grind that damn near burnt me completely out of this game, just like (I think sheldon) was saying in the last dev stream. I'm glad they're at least addressing that.

 

Also, thank you for the well thought out and objective post.

[Borockobama]

58 T4D keys 40 waves each for loki prime systems. I cried when someone actually traded it to me. Literal tears. 

 

I still love Warframe but ever since then (this was back when loki prime first came out) im wary of even trying to grind anymore..

[-Vane-]

Hmm. I for one have about 1000 hrs ingame. Both on Steam and outside. So far i've been playing for fun and pvp with friends and challange. But what op said is true. But if i wanted to give up, and let all that money rot, I'd have no regrets. This game gave me alot of good time. I do not regret a single dollar spent.

Edited March 28, 2015 by NyancraftG

[Yazeth]

You know what's funny, is that is exactly the idea behind the void trader. People were wanting these ducat things to be a form of grind mitigation. Trade in your crap for what you actually want. Instead, they turned it into a grind that damn near burnt me completely out of this game, just like (I think sheldon) was saying in the last dev stream. I'm glad they're at least addressing that.

 

I think that DE said something about having Baro rotate items regularly, and only having one new item each time to avoid burn out. Well... there are players who just want all of the goodies at once, so there's no pleasing both sides here sadly. We'll see how this plays out.

[Vargras]

I never said free2play = unsustainable. I said the flaws in WARFRAME'S free to play model make IT unsustainable. Plenty of F2P games have survived, yes. Plenty more haven't. Many more, like Planetside 2, are rapidly sinking. It all boils down to this little thing called player retention. &!$$ing off or boring a large chunk of your player base, is not good for player retention. Not everyone has the tollerance for this BS that you might.

Part of this also boils down to developer involvement, however. A good example of this was Tribes: Ascend -- did fairly well, managed to keep it together with a F2P model. As soon as the developer abandoned ship so they could begin to work on Smite, it quickly began to die out.

 

Given how heavily involved DE is in Warframe's development (developers posting on the forums/twitter daily, devstreams every two weeks to showcase what's coming up and to allow players to ask questions), I feel Warframe will still last quite a while, regardless of anyone's opinion on the F2P model they use.

 

I think that DE said something about having Baro rotate items regularly, and only having one new item each time to avoid burn out. Well... there are players who just want all of the goodies at once, so there's no pleasing both sides here sadly. We'll see how this plays out.

As mentioned in the previous devstream, the Void Trader has a rotating stock (with most items being repeats) so players don't burn themselves out trying to farm up ducats for new stock.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Vargras

[Sairus002]

Part of this also boils down to developer involvement, however. A good example of this was Tribes: Ascend -- did fairly well, managed to keep it together with a F2P model. As soon as the developer abandoned ship so they could begin to work on Smite, it quickly began to die out.

 

Given how heavily involved DE is in Warframe's development (developers posting on the forums/twitter daily, devstreams every two weeks to showcase what's coming up and to allow players to ask questions), I feel Warframe will still last quite a while, regardless of anyone's opinion on the F2P model they use.

 

Developer involvement isn't always a good thing. Planetside 2 didn't start to decline because it was abandoned, and it's payment model wasn't actually bad. The devs actively ruined it with bad decision after bad decision. They had livestreams on Fridays. They had a big community roadmap where people voted on features that they wanted. Why did it get ruined? They didn't think anything through. Everything I enjoyed about that game was utterly absent after 5 months of release, and that quickly, they were shutting down and merging servers. SOE no longer exists, and the game's IP is owned by some investment company.

 

Ever since U14, Warframe has been looking frighteningly similar. One of the most notable examples was Vivergate, and now this dumb Excalibur nerf that was rolled out with 16. What the hell were they thinking there? Back when they nerfed those 3 frames I was in disbelief that anyone in that entire studio didn't come out and say "Hey, isn't this kind of incredibly idiotic?" These bad decisions are going hand-in-hand with their payment model, i.e. Prime Access.

 

TL:DR It's what they're doing with their involvement that's making the game's quality suffer, not a lack of involvement.

[TheAmishCurse]

Developer involvement isn't always a good thing. Planetside 2 didn't start to decline because it was abandoned, and it's payment model wasn't actually bad. The devs actively ruined it with bad decision after bad decision. They had livestreams on Fridays. They had a big community roadmap where people voted on features that they wanted. Why did it get ruined? They didn't think anything through. Everything I enjoyed about that game was utterly absent after 5 months of release, and that quickly, they were shutting down and merging servers. SOE no longer exists, and the game's IP is owned by some investment com

So true. I am afraid DE is making this game as a fan not as a developer and with examples like Kubrows it is clear they are winging it and it's finally beginning to show

[TheAmishCurse]

Maybe what they define as a grind is different then what you consider a grind?  Has that thought even crossed your mind?

54 T1 Captures and no piece isn't a grind in everyone's eyes? If that's the case then I want to live in a world where investing 2 1/2 hours of time isn't substantial.

[TheAmishCurse]

And okay, admittedly I was getting worked up and was a bit hostile, but in both this game and RL I hate people who just ignore problems and pretend that everything is going well. It's the same people who push the whole USA is the best country in the world thing. But this game has issues like the grind that people respond to with "Don't like it then gtfo" I paid for this game I'm allowed to voice opinions and expect improvement

[TheAmishCurse]

Note: Ran it one more time (55th) and got the Odonata Blue Print. Not sure if RNG or DE saw this and took pity, but I am back in my delusional state of happiness until I return to my Volt Prime farm

[7grims]

Developer involvement isn't always a good thing. Planetside 2 didn't start to decline because it was abandoned, and it's payment model wasn't actually bad. The devs actively ruined it with bad decision after bad decision. They had livestreams on Fridays. They had a big community roadmap where people voted on features that they wanted. Why did it get ruined? They didn't think anything through. Everything I enjoyed about that game was utterly absent after 5 months of release, and that quickly, they were shutting down and merging servers. SOE no longer exists, and the game's IP is owned by some investment company.

 

Ever since U14, Warframe has been looking frighteningly similar. One of the most notable examples was Vivergate, and now this dumb Excalibur nerf that was rolled out with 16. What the hell were they thinking there? Back when they nerfed those 3 frames I was in disbelief that anyone in that entire studio didn't come out and say "Hey, isn't this kind of incredibly idiotic?" These bad decisions are going hand-in-hand with their payment model, i.e. Prime Access.

 

TL:DR It's what they're doing with their involvement that's making the game's quality suffer, not a lack of involvement.

 

You speak well, sir.

What I have been "afraid" for a long time, its the destruction of the game because of the several nerfs happening everywhere, games like ultima online and others have been completely abandoned by their community of players because the devs exaggerated on balancing the game.

But either way, the development decisions have been very poor since 2014, it will not take long time for the warframe community to see how pour or badly designed the new content is, this might also bring the game to an end.

Edited March 30, 2015 by 7grims

[vaugahn]

The Planetside 2 comparison is accurate but doesn't really apply here. They've yet to make any decisions on that magnitude of stupid, despite community whining about nerfs and what not.

[RoboDoge]

54 T1 Captures and no piece isn't a grind in everyone's eyes? If that's the case then I want to live in a world where investing 2 1/2 hours of time isn't substantial.

You made it a grind with your mentality. "Must have everything now, or i am not a cool kid anymore". You created your own grind, RNG is there just for trolling purposes.

 

 

There is always an option of buying PA, or investing some Platinum in new prime parts.

[Siekier]

You speak well, sir.

What I have been "afraid" for a long time, its the destruction of the game because of the several nerfs happening everywhere, games like ultima online and others have been completely abandoned by their community of players because the devs exaggerated on balancing the game.

But either way, the development decisions have been very poor since 2014, it will not take long time for the warframe community to see how pour or badly designed the new content is, this might also bring the game to an end.

The way I see it, white knight are one of the biggest problems Warframe has.

Because every time the devs mess something up there's a bunch of people saying "stfu, everything is fine, best update ever thank you DE". No matter how terrible it was, they're always defending DE. 

Example? People raging because of unneeded nerfs U16 brought, there was a bunch of "good, rep farming will be over", "shut up crybabies" responses. Not bringing up valid points, full of butthurt instead.

 

Some people would get hyped even if someone at DE posted a picture of dump they took earlier that day.

 

This is what can lead to downfall of Warframe.