Overload

[Bobtm]

They just need to let its stuns override and to make electronics come back online after a while.  Otherwise it's completely fine.

Agreed on this, a few QoL tweaks and I'd be totally happy with how Overload works.  If I had to add more, at most I'd be okay with seeing a couple of frames shaved off of its current animation.  Though I don't really think that last part is necessary.

 

________________________

 

I've sort of noticed a trend being noted here about Overload by quite a few people... and I'm a bit confused.

 

To the people saying Overlaod is fine as is...what the heck are you talking about?

It makes Volt pause in place momentarily, it does low damage in most cases and it has short lived CC.

In what way is it fine?

 

Maybe it's not supposed to be what it use to be. Ok cool. But if it's supposed to be a nuke (like it use to be/is in conclaves) then it should hit harder, if its supposed to be a good CC the stun should last longer, if its supposed to be part of his speedy play it shouldn't stop him in place...

 

 

This may very well be why I'm almost entirely alright with Overload in its current form, since using it doens't stop me in place.  I can't even recall the last time I used Overload while being still, it's been well over a year ago for sure.  There's no need nor reason to be stationary while casting Overload.  It isn't like Rhino Stomp, Smoke Bomb, Radial Disarm or the rest of that list.

[Ronyn]

Are you guys using this against level 80 enemies?

 

They just need to let its stuns override and to make electronics come back online after a while.  Otherwise it's completely fine.

 

Agreed on this, a few QoL tweaks and I'd be totally happy with how Overload works.  

Guys. That is more than QOL right there..that is a huge difference. It turns something that is heavily situational into something reliable.

 

1: When Overload is bouncing off of electronics the base damage of Overload is about doubled. 

We are talking about a solid difference in damage output based on whether or not there are active electronics in the area.

So sure...when Overload is doing that Full damage it's quite strong. When it's not..it's not.

 

2: If its stuns would override and enemies where definitely going to be locked down through the duration of each pulse then it gains heavy CC potential.  Plus the stuns that come from arcing off of technology increases it even more. As it is now it may or may not stun much depending on the situation.

 

Note: Should Overload even be reliant on electronic devices? I'm not sure. I mean I totally enjoy the whole "use your surroundings to do more damage" idea in theory. But it's a mechanic created in a time where the only tileset was a corpus ships. Since then the options have expanded and it's not always reasonable that electrics will be around....and who knows what tilesets may be come in the future. Is this really a condition that makes sense in the current game?

 

If I had to add more, at most I'd be okay with seeing a couple of frames shaved off of its current animation.  Though I don't really think that last part is necessary.

 

I've sort of noticed a trend being noted here about Overload by quite a few people... and I'm a bit confused.

 

This may very well be why I'm almost entirely alright with Overload in its current form, since using it doens't stop me in place.  I can't even recall the last time I used Overload while being still, it's been well over a year ago for sure.  There's no need nor reason to be stationary while casting Overload.  It isn't like Rhino Stomp, Smoke Bomb, Radial Disarm or the rest of that list.

Let me clarify what I mean to say. The animation does in fact stop you place naturally. BUT If you're moving when overload is cast the momentum will continue in that direction so the frame is not stationary. However you are in fact locked in the "arms spread out" animation for a short time where you are unable to take any other action. As I eluded to above it's pretty situation on whether it's worth that.

If that animation was simply faster it would make it less of a drawback and in turn require less of advantage to be worth using.

 

Give me the consistent damage from electrical devices, a reliable stun and a speedy animation..

and I would be quite pleased.

 

Note: There are also a few animations that will naturally stop you in place but can be overidden by either jumping or sliding.

Mesa's peacemaker is another example of that. I often using it in mid air or mid slide then break out of it before my momentum stops. This works fine in her overall kit because peacemaker hits hard, shatter shield blocks damage and shooting gallery CC's.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ronyn

[Davoodoo]

This is what I hate about PvP, now were going to have people bring up a separate part of the game during everyday discussion about THE MAIN GAME

Sad reality when some parts of the game are actually kept separate and neither affects others.

[Bobtm]

Spoiler tagged part (most really) to save space

 

 

 

Guys. That is more than QOL right there..that is a huge difference. It turns something that is heavily situational into something reliable.

1: When Overload is bouncing off of electronics the base damage of Overload is about doubled. 

We are talking about a solid difference in damage output based on whether or not there are active electronics in the area.

So sure...when Overload is doing that Full damage it's quite strong. When it's not..it's not.

 

2: If its stuns would override and enemies where definitely going to be locked down through the duration of each pulse then it gains heavy CC potential.  Plus the stuns that come from arcing off of technology increases it even more. As it is now it may or may not stun much depending on the situation.

 

Note: Should Overload even be reliant on electronic devices? I'm not sure. I mean I totally enjoy the whole "use your surroundings to do more damage" idea in theory. But it's a mechanic created in a time where the only tileset was a corpus ships. Since then the options have expanded and it's not always reasonable that electrics will be around....and who knows what tilesets may be come in the future. Is this really a condition that makes sense in the current game?

 

Let me clarify what I mean to say. The animation does in fact stop you place naturally. BUT If you're moving when overload is cast the momentum will continue in that direction so the frame is not stationary. However you are in fact locked in the "arms spread out" animation for a short time where you are unable to take any other action. As I eluded to above it's pretty situation on whether it's worth that.

If that animation was simply faster it would make it less of a drawback and in turn require less of advantage to be worth using.

 

Give me the consistent damage from electrical devices, a reliable stun and a speedy animation..

and I would be quite pleased.

 

Note: There are also a few animations that will naturally stop you in place but can be overidden by either jumping or sliding.

Mesa's peacemaker is another example of that. I often using it in mid air or mid slide then break out of it before my momentum stops. This works fine in her overall kit because peacemaker hits hard, shatter shield blocks damage and shooting gallery CC's.

 

Two cover the first two parts, I admittedly cannot and will not speak on what RealPandemonium meant with electronics coming back online.  What I meant/thought would be to have them come back online after roughly 3-5 minutes, mostly I'd say closer to 5 would be more appropriate.  You get the chance to do increased damage on a far decreased scale than if it were immediate.  I'd be entirely opposed to having the electronics come back instantly, that's just a bad idea in my mind.

 

The second one is tricky.  I consider making the stun override other animations QoL purely because the only don't do so because of Warframe's existing animation lock issues.  Abilities that are supposed to be guaranteed knockdown don't even cut through animations.  Hek even Bastille's grab doesn't actively break animation lock, it only subverts it by being a constant trait so it'll kick in after the animation.

 

All in all, my biggest hang up ends with how overboard most 4s are.  It's too easy to make a 4 too good in this game, especially given how our mods allow them to be spammed to no end.  That's why I'm so rough when it comes to changes regarding what I find to be a more appropriate 4 among them.  Having its stun be limited to the time you're in the animation means you rely on teammates to take advantage of said stun, which I actively like as a trait for a non-CC focused frame.

[FitzSimmons]

the question is what is duration for in overload ability menu? if DE can just change how overload works to become like hydroid or chroma, put that ulti somewhere else to stun enemies around there for durations, then overload duration on ability menu has meaning. and if DE really going to do that, its no mistake for DE called him briliant tactician on first advert volt prime access. 

"lets put volt ulti there because bombards are that way, shield cant stop bombard missiles, oh heavy gunner on other way, we can put electric shield to repel, geez those melee fighter went through shield, shock 'em to death or use your speed to clear them with melee" just imagination, lemme have my dream volt in my mind lol.

 

EDIT : anyway, if volt 4th power is like hydroid/chroma, his new augment mod, capacitance will become more useful even if you dont build your volt with more range. place it on crowded enemies, regain shield while hiding behind the wall. more like utility. i love utility.

Edited April 2, 2015 by FitzSimmons

[Ronyn]

 What I meant/thought would be to have them come back online after roughly 3-5 minutes, mostly I'd say closer to 5 would be more appropriate.  You get the chance to do increased damage on a far decreased scale than if it were immediate.  I'd be entirely opposed to having the electronics come back instantly, that's just a bad idea in my mind.

Do you feel it's really get's too good when it's arcing on electronics? Is that why you're trying to keep it from being a more common effect?

 

Honestly electronics coming back after several minutes is basically useless. You're not likely to ever gain the benefits of the electronics a second time. That's not even in the realm of long cooldown so use it only when you need it-it's just a change with no impact.

 

Really, as I mentioned in my post above (you may have missed when I edited it) I am not certain the whole "does more damage when near active electronics" is a smart condition to have on the power at this time anyway.

 

All in all, my biggest hang up ends with how overboard most 4s are.  It's too easy to make a 4 too good in this game, especially given how our mods allow them to be spammed to no end.  That's why I'm so rough when it comes to changes regarding what I find to be a more appropriate 4 among them.  

I understand the reservations about making 4's too strong. I have them too though I am just as concerned about 4's (or any power) being too weak.

This game has powers that range from too good to too bad in a pretty big way. I'm worried about balance. Actual, functional, reasonable, balance. 

 

With some frames balance is lost because there is never a reason to not use the 4 power, moreover it is usually the best option whenever available. That is too far. The problem with overload is the opposite......there really is rarely a reason why it's ever a good idea to use out of the options he has. Shocks a faster, safer, stun.Can be used in quick succession and doesn't leave you vulnerable so it flows better with speed. Based on enemy configurations it's ability to be aimed in specific directions makes it more commonly the better choice even if hidden behind electric shield.

 

I tend to go farther and better into tough missions by basically ignoring Overload entirely.

On occasion I might be able to set it off for a good bounce off of electronics moment but outside of that it's just not worth the energy or the risk.

 

That's why I'm so rough when it comes to changes regarding what I find to be a more appropriate 4 among them.  Having its stun be limited to the time you're in the animation means you rely on teammates to take advantage of said stun, which I actively like as a trait for a non-CC focused frame.

Whether Volt specializes in one thing or is about being able to do many....he has to be good enough at each thing for it to properly contribute to the effort. Having a power that is improved by group coordination is great. Having a power that has minimal to moderate use alone and its potentially a death sentence to use without group coordination is too far.

 

Once enemies get to the point where they are hitting hard and require real hits to go down I don't find the ability an appropriate 4, I appreciate that it's not capable of P4TW gameplay....but that is only one of the criteria I'm looking for.

 

What I think we should be looking to do is improve Overload in a way that doesn't turn it into P42W but makes it worth using.

The new augment for it has a great concept of giving it defensive utility along with it's offense/cc use. It's percentages are bad right now but the idea is sound. Heck, even allowing Volt to just hold down the Overload button so he could keep sending pulses out for increases energy cost would be something to consider-increase risk for greater reward. Then it would be worth setting up a shield so you could charge up and let loose.

Or what if enemies hit by Overload held an electric charge for a few seconds. So every time someone shoots that enemy it would send out an arc that would hurt other targets. That would make it potentially more damage oriented but only when used in concert with other weapons.

I'm not saying those specific ideas are amazing they are just off the top of my head

Point is we can totally improve a power without resorting to the terrible P42W stuff.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

I should mention that I am concerned about end game balance. Taking a potatoed, fully forma'd, fully modded, frame up against trail/raid level enemies. DE knows that damage falls off too hard. Volt is just one casualty of that problem. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ronyn

[FitzSimmons]

I should mention that I am concerned about end game balance. Taking a potatoed, fully forma'd, fully modded, frame up against trail/raid level enemies. DE knows that damage falls off too hard. Volt is just one casualty of that problem. 

 

raid? 4xCP and you wont feel their armor. even with only 2xCP in raid i can kill them in 2 hits with dread on headshot. sometimes people complain about dmg especially against grineer and demand for more dmg on frames. but they dont want to use those aura mods that reduce grineer armors or corpus shield! 4xCP, accelerant + WoF enemies die. 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

I am not sure if this idea has been posted before but how about Overload unleashes pulses per second and is affected by Power Duration. This would allow players in PvE to increase the DPS of Overload without anything changing in PvP as there is no Power Duration mods currently in PvP. As a Volt player myself, I can say for certain that Duration is your focus to help out Sprint and Energy Wall. Allowing Overload to make use of your Power Duration stat to increase its damage output would give Volt another useful ability that isn't just "I HATE LIGHT BULBS!!!"

[Ronyn]

raid? 4xCP and you wont feel their armor. even with only 2xCP in raid i can kill them in 2 hits with dread on headshot. sometimes people complain about dmg especially against grineer and demand for more dmg on frames. but they dont want to use those aura mods that reduce grineer armors or corpus shield! 4xCP, accelerant + WoF enemies die. 

I said raid/trail LEVEL content. Not just this raid we happen to have right now.

Sure right now folks can stack CP and turn grineer armor to paper cardboard but this is just the first example of what raids/trials.

In time we will be getting several. Different factions, different missions types..etc. We can't hope the DE will let us keep cheesing it up with aura mods.

So we should still be setting up the frames with the right balance logic.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ronyn

[RealPandemonium]

Level 80 enemies is not Warframe.  The raid is a joke; it's nothing but enemy bandaids against player power being nullified by player bandaids against enemies acting, period.  There was no sense of danger or excitement during the raid; only frustration at the team's incompetence and sense of entitlement.  I think DE intended the raids as more of a puzzle mode where the idea is to fight enemies only minimally and accomplish the objective via teamwork and working around unbearable enemies.  The problem with this is that people already just turn off enemies anyway, even when they don't have to.  I really hope that DE doesn't consider this state of affairs a remotely finished product.  Unfortunately, monetizing their game is a much higher priority than making it good at the moment, so it's very likely that what little shred of humility and actual gameplay warframe's balance state had a year ago will continue to steadily erode in the face of increasing powercreep and grindwall.

[Flackenstien]

my maths says it gives you around 15 overshield hp per enemy in the radius per cast either they suck at making tooltips or it's a complete piece of junk 

overload deals 900 damage, 

900/100*7=63 (more or less) overshields if you're solo

63/4=15 if you're in a group

While I was testing it, it made my Shields jump from the 900-something I had at the time to around 1700+.  

Also, was 900 an example? 'Cause Overload's base damage is 1125 (before electronics and procs).

[Ronyn]

Level 80 enemies is not Warframe. 

Yes. Yes it is. Officially speaking It is the end game until DE decides otherwise. (Whether we like it/agree with it's scaling or not)

In the Dev stream when Scott said the goal was to balance all frames to all levels of content you can be certain that the raids/trials were part of that.

 

The raid is a joke; it's nothing but enemy bandaids against player power being nullified by player bandaids against enemies acting, period.  There was no sense of danger or excitement during the raid; only frustration at the team's incompetence and sense of entitlement.  I think DE intended the raids as more of a puzzle mode where the idea is to fight enemies only minimally and accomplish the objective via teamwork and working around unbearable enemies.  The problem with this is that people already just turn off enemies anyway, even when they don't have to.  I really hope that DE doesn't consider this state of affairs a remotely finished product.  Unfortunately, monetizing their game is a much higher priority than making it good at the moment, so it's very likely that what little shred of humility and actual gameplay warframe's balance state had a year ago will continue to steadily erode in the face of increasing powercreep and grindwall.

All I can say is that Scott was talking about how in the late game utility becomes king and damage falls off too far. They know its a problem that is why he and Steve are looking at a potential blanket solution for it. Whether or not that every happens or not remains to be seen. 

 

Otherwise...well I'm not going to condemn DE with fore-tellings of failure anymore than I am going to white knight and proclaim victory before it's happened. Game needs work. I'll give feedback on what I think will help it. DeE will do what they do. I'll see it when I see it.

Predictions aren't my thing.

[Ronyn]

While I was testing it, it made my Shields jump from the 900-something I had at the time to around 1700+.  

Also, was 900 an example? 'Cause Overload's base damage is 1125 (before electronics and procs).

hmm. It's possible the mod is bugged so different folks are getting wildly different results.

Cause I used it last night and it was terrible...lol

[-Onyx-Phalian]

I said raid/trail LEVEL content. Not just this raid we happen to have right now.

Sure right now folks can stack CP and turn grineer armor to paper cardboard but this is just the first example of what raids/trials.

In time we will be getting several. Different factions, different missions types..etc. We can't hope the DE will let us keep cheesing it up with aura mods.

So we should still be setting up the frames with the right balance logic.

I believe another factor is that Volt is one of those frames which was just ok. He wasn't Ember bad nor was he Nova level strong. Because of this, he was one of those frames which not many talked about. Therefor not much was brought up about him. Only with Volt Prime have old Volt Players gotten back to using him which is bringing old flaws to light. Yes the new stats are simply mouth watering but Volt still has only 2.5 good abilities. Sprint and Energy Wall are simply epic while Shock is simply used for chain CC. Overload is near useless because of the cast animation makes you waste time while the enemy are CC from Electric damage. It's still a fun ability being a walking tesla coil but I believe that Overload needs some help and allowing it to make use of Power Duration would be a great way to do so.

[Flackenstien]

I really just want them to space out the pulses a bit, and let it be affected by Power Duration.  

It's a simple way to make it a very useful crowd control tool, turning it from a single stun to repetitive stuns over time.   

The change would also increase the total damage Overload can deal, helping it scale better damage-wise.  

 

It'd be balanced by the fact that now the ability takes more time to dish out its total damage. (Capacitance's values would probably have to be tweaked.)   

 

An additional helpful change would be to make atleast the first pulse either be released sooner (like when Volt curls into a ball) or travel faster.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Flackenstien

[bl4ckhunter]

While I was testing it, it made my Shields jump from the 900-something I had at the time to around 1700+.  

Also, was 900 an example? 'Cause Overload's base damage is 1125 (before electronics and procs).

you know that you can't have 1700 overshield right? overshields cap at 1200

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

you know that you can't have 1700 overshield right? overshields cap at 1200

Wrong, you can have 1200 shields over your shield cap ( called over shield), in his example we can't determine for sure his shield cap, but let's assume it is 900: 1700 - 900 = 800; He gained 800 shield as over shields out of the 1200 maximum over shields he can gain.

Say his max shield value is 1100: 1700 - 1100 = 600; He gained 800 (1700 - 900) shield points, 200 (1100 cap - 900 current shield amount) as regular shields, 600 as over shields (1700 final shield value - 1100 shield cap).

Edited April 2, 2015 by (PS4)DanteVincent

[Flackenstien]

Yeah, my Shields at full on the build I was using is 1050, so it restored about 100 of my damaged Shields, and gave me like 700 Overshield.    

 

As for consistency issues with the Augment, it regens with each pulse, not all at once. So, if you're taking damage while it regens Shields, it might seem like it didn't do much of anything.  

Plus.. I heard of (and possibly experienced) that you might need to be somewhat close to the damaged enemies to receive a Shield regen. This could easily be false though.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Flackenstien

[FitzSimmons]

I said raid/trail LEVEL content. Not just this raid we happen to have right now.

Sure right now folks can stack CP and turn grineer armor to paper cardboard but this is just the first example of what raids/trials.

In time we will be getting several. Different factions, different missions types..etc. We can't hope the DE will let us keep cheesing it up with aura mods.

So we should still be setting up the frames with the right balance logic.

several faction like corpus? you can use shield disruptor aura, infested you can use infested impedance. and about different kind of missions, we dont know what kind of mission they will be so just see what it will become then give more feedback. 

[Ronyn]

several faction like corpus? you can use shield disruptor aura, infested you can use infested impedance.

A multi-faction raid would put a wrench in that wouldn't it. Or whatever the new faction is about. 

Besides, being able to effectively damage enemies isn't the only aspect of balance.

 

and about different kind of missions, we dont know what kind of mission they will be so just see what it will become then give more feedback. 

Of course we don't know. That is no reason not to ask for the standard class balancing around end game level that any game should have.

[FitzSimmons]

A multi-faction raid would put a wrench in that wouldn't it. Or whatever the new faction is about. 

Besides, being able to effectively damage enemies isn't the only aspect of balance.

multi faction = use both corrosive and shield disruptor, 8 players arent there for nothing right? yea ont only aspect of balance but from what i see most of the time, people complain about how their damaging power is useless on raid. 

[Ronyn]

multi faction = use both corrosive and shield disruptor, 8 players arent there for nothing right?

Look....Dev's will always look for ways to challenge us and players will always look to overcome it. This is the cycle of things. That said-

If the only result of DE placing higher level enemies in a mission is to for us to slot aura mods then they need to re-examine their scaling mechanics.

And we, as players, can't expect it to remain that simple going forward.

 

 yea ont only aspect of balance but from what i see most of the time, people complain about how their damaging power is useless on raid. 

Perhaps..... Though it's really best to look at the whole picture.

[Magneu]

What if the pulses after the initial pulse were released from wherever Volt was? Would be cool if they were affected by duration as well, but that might make it a little nuts. I think a change like that could make Volt even more versatile, as he could camp and shield/shock, or pop a speed, overload, and dash through crowds, stunning them (I'd honestly prefer this over a damage oriented nuke)

[Axeroix]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/432914-volts-ultimate/

heres my suggestion for overload, its a little drastic but I think it could work

[FitzSimmons]

What if the pulses after the initial pulse were released from wherever Volt was? Would be cool if they were affected by duration as well, but that might make it a little nuts. I think a change like that could make Volt even more versatile, as he could camp and shield/shock, or pop a speed, overload, and dash through crowds, stunning them (I'd honestly prefer this over a damage oriented nuke)

shocking speed augment! and isnt that kinda similiar to World on Fire ?