Chroma Overall Experience.

[Bacl]

This frame is amazing but he has few strings attached to its back holding him to take off.

 

First of all his first skill , Spectral Scream and Effigy are nice on paper and concept but the skills themselves are rather lacking; the damage, the range and even the cone of fire could be better and dont scale very well with mods even if you try to focus it.

 

Between us a dragon that cant breath fire or any elemental of some sorts is not really a dragon, buff them up!

 

 

 

Elemental ward: That thing is very well done, maybe a little more range on that but the skill is fine by my opinion, it has a great potential to buff a team, just a range and time buff and you should be good to go.

 

 

 

Vex armor: That one i have a troubles with. First of all the armor buffing itself on shield damage is rather counter intuitive and a bit silly. This should scale on health damage not on shield, when the buff goes down but your shield didnt recharged your pretty much done for.

Armor scaling on health damage would be for me the solution and a more natural approche to the mecanic.

The damage bonus is nice but i would leave it to shield damage.

Vex armor is my biggest rant about the Chroma.

 

 

 

This Frame is so far one of my favorite and has the potential do be a great support, great dps, caster, tank or simply going double dragon if you focus it in one of these branches, it is not perfect bug slight change and few buffs and this thing will be ready to rock the end game like a champ.

 

 

 

P.S. Sorry for the quality of english.

 

 

[Ailith]

Damage abilities always scale poorly, hence why Spectral Scream and Effigy don't do a whole lot against higher enemies. The solution is to make a better damage system but, since a revamp is nowhere in sight, I'd settle for more frequent (or guaranteed?) status procs on each ability.

 

Vex Armor increases armor based on shield damage to A) encourage tanky builds instead of just giving free stats and B) prevent it from being a "push a button and be tanky as hell" ability (Iron Skin, Shatter Shield, etc.). You need to be aware of when to use it, instead of just spamming it when the duration expires. Personally, I really like that idea.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ailith

[Ronyn]

Vex armor is friggin beautiful!

[climatiseur]

Actually, damaging shield to gain armor is a neat idea, as armor is only applied to health. If armor is gained by damaging health, chroma could be dead already before armor is boosted to maximum.

So when your shield is depleted, your health is already prepared with boosted armor stat.

Edited April 4, 2015 by climatiseur

[Bacl]

Actually, damaging shield to gain armor is a neat idea, as armor is only applied to health. If armor is gained by damaging health, chroma could be dead already before armor is boosted to maximum.

So when your shield is depleted, your health is already prepared with boosted armor stat.

 

I can see the benefits of that since you are fully armored when your shield is down, however with the low duration of the skill when it is over and your shield couldnt recharge you will pop. Vex armor charging on health damage could be used in synergy with fire since it gives you more health so better buffer to scale Scorn.

 

I still think it would be better if they simply switched the buffs, it wouldnt be like iron skin since it has a duration and need to sclae out of damage but once charged it would be a fine competitor.

[Fierach]

Or you could watch your duration, and not be in a position to get popped when Vex armor runs out.

 

Or you can increase your duration with mods (my Vex armor lasts atleast 30 seconds with Continuity and Constitution, more then enough for a prolonged engagement).

Edited April 4, 2015 by Fierach

[Ronyn]

I can see the benefits of that since you are fully armored when your shield is down, however with the low duration of the skill when it is over and your shield couldnt recharge you will pop.  Vex armor charging on health damage could be used in synergy with fire since it gives you more health so better buffer to scale Scorn.

Base duration is 25 seconds at level 3. That's a great start. If you want you can bring that up to around 38 or more without sacrificing much from the build. Smart to use at least some duration mods with Ice tank, electricity tank. Also with any melee tank builds in general where you'll be relying on the rage mod to gain energy back and the lifestrike  mod to get health back. 

With fire whether you want duration or not depends on whether you want to be able to spam health back often or not.

 

Keep in mind that where Chroma's more direct tank builds put him in harms way where Vex armor is needed.

Some builds are more ranged focused where you hang back and let team mates or Effigy take the brunt of things and Vex armor is less required.

In those builds the focus is on energy efficiency not duration (you always want power). Often works well with fire for spamming health back when the need arises.

 

 

 

I still think it would be better if they simply switched the buffs, it wouldnt be like iron skin since it has a duration and need to sclae out of damage but once charged it would be a fine competitor.

What do you mean switched buffs? Like make shield damage increase dps and health damage increase armor?

I say no to that. Too likely to get burst damaged to death before the armor would scale up high enough to help in high levels.

 

It's wonderful as it is........you just have to understand it and worth with it.

[Bacl]

Base duration is 25 seconds at level 3. That's a great start. If you want you can bring that up to around 38 or more without sacrificing much from the build. Smart to use at least some duration mods with Ice tank, electricity tank. Also with any melee tank builds in general where you'll be relying on the rage mod to gain energy back and the lifestrike  mod to get health back. 

With fire whether you want duration or not depends on whether you want to be able to spam health back often or not.

 

Keep in mind that where Chroma's more direct tank builds put him in harms way where Vex armor is needed.

Some builds are more ranged focused where you hang back and let team mates or Effigy take the brunt of things and Vex armor is less required.

In those builds the focus is on energy efficiency not duration (you always want power). Often works well with fire for spamming health back when the need arises.

 

 

 

What do you mean switched buffs? Like make shield damage increase dps and health damage increase armor?

I say no to that. Too likely to get burst damaged to death before the armor would scale up high enough to help in high levels.

 

It's wonderful as it is........you just have to understand it and worth with it.

I do get how it works and i have a build to exploit that but even how amazing the skill is, i have the feeling it would be better if the buff were inverted,  i have the feeling it doesnt reach its full potential currently. ON a side note i  dont care much about the weapon damage bonus so this isint a rant to have more damage to murder everything. 

 

Well this is just an opinion, i love chroma, i just wish all his skills would scale better so we can have multiple playstyles with it like other frames, Rhino being a prime example, we need more of these.

[Ronyn]

I do get how it works and i have a build to exploit that but even how amazing the skill is, i have the feeling it would be better if the buff were inverted,  i have the feeling it doesnt reach its full potential currently. ON a side note i  dont care much about the weapon damage bonus so this isint a rant to have more damage to murder everything. 

Wait... I'm confused. What full potential are you talking about?

The weapon bonus should be a factor to care about a lot but then if you don't much care about the weapon damage bonus then what is your goal for reversing the buff? Your way would mean that when you first get hit and take shield damage all you get is the thing you don't much care about...

then when you're finally taking hits to health you'll take far more damage the first few hist until the armor bonus reaches its apex.

 

 

Well this is just an opinion, i love chroma, i just wish all his skills would scale better so we can have multiple playstyles with it like other frames, Rhino being a prime example, we need more of these.

eh...if we are talking end game stuff verses level 60 to 80 enemies...

 

In damage builds both Chroma and Rhino have a power that increases weapon damage which will out perform powers in dps.

In Tank builds Chroma can take more hits and scales farther than Rhino. In fact Rhino is not a very effective tank at high levels.

In CC builds Rhino's stomp is great CC but the right build on an ice or electricity Chroma can get pretty close.

In Support builds Roar is easier to get on multiple targets cause elemental ward has dreadfully short range but Chroma has more options in how to support the team.

 

Chroma's only scaling problem is that the damage on spectral scream and effigy fall off. Heck Effigy has weak damage early to mid game. So it's not a scaling issue..its a just plain weak ability issue. 

And the short range problem with elemental ward isnt a scaling issue...its a range issue that makes it hard to use at any level.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ronyn

[Fierach]

I have no idea what you're talking about with Rhino. He has two builds. Roar buffing for farms, and Yolo mode, where you can just build normally and do anything because, Ironskin. All of his skills scale with just about everything.

 

If anything, Chroma has more playstyles, whether it is as a Fire-based support healer. Ice-based tank. Electric-based offensive tank, or I have no idea what to do with Toxin, but I'm thinking about a build for Conclave.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Fierach

[Fierach]

EDIT: Double Post.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Fierach

[Ronyn]

I have no idea what you're talking about with Rhino. He has two builds. Roar buffing for farms, and Yolo mode, where you can just build normally and do anything because, Ironskin. All of his skills scale with just about everything.

Iron skin doesn't last long against at level 60 to 80 (riads). It will protect him from stray hits better than the average frame but its not tank level of usefulness where you can purposefully absorb punishment for the team. Folks who want to deal with the very hard stuff tend to shift toward the stomp spam Crowd Control build. Outside of that hard stuff there are many ways to build rhino effectively.

 

If anything, Chroma has more playstyles, 

Indeed he does have more playstyles than rhino. More than the majority of other frames for that matter.

[Gelkor]

Chroma may end up supplanting Valkyr as my favorite tanky melee frame.

#heresy

[flamedance58]

I do wish the Scream had a slightly larger range like 15m but it makes up for it with that 60% status chance effect as Chroma is all about the elements and their effects.

[RealPandemonium]

Damage abilities always scale poorly, hence why Spectral Scream and Effigy don't do a whole lot against higher enemies. 

No, they just have low dps.  In particular, Spectral Scream is quite crippling for what it does.  Effigy's damage is just OK but its function as a decoy and remote CC tool redeem it, IMO. 

 

Try playing Saryn or Ember with 4x CP and tell me that damage abilities can't harm high level enemies.

[Ailith]

No, they just have low dps.  In particular, Spectral Scream is quite crippling for what it does.  Effigy's damage is just OK but its function as a decoy and remote CC tool redeem it, IMO. 

 

Try playing Saryn or Ember with 4x CP and tell me that damage abilities can't harm high level enemies.

They have low dps because of infinite armor scaling and while you can run Corrosive Projection, you are effectively bypassing what the content really is at that point (dealing damage straight to health). And, even against enemies with just health (or shields), you will deal infinitely less damage in relation to their total health pools.

 

I find it highly annoying that the only way to deal with high-level enemies is to be forced into using one Aura to entirely remove their armor (or shields, with Shield Disruption). That's the complete opposite of game balance: the devs understand how broken the damage system is, so they added a band-aid mod to "fix" it instead of adding proper scaling to both halves of the system. This both makes higher content unnecessarily difficult and restricts how many builds are actually viable in said content.

[Kruglov]

Effigy needs to cast it's own version of Elemental Ward in an AOE when it's out.

[Ronyn]

No, they just have low dps.  In particular, Spectral Scream is quite crippling for what it does.  

In the case of Spectral Scream you're right, it is just plain weak hitting for its drawbacks. Sure some might say its good for the stun when it procs but several other frames have weak damage stuns that have longer range and no slow movement/no weapon mode drawback. Some frames do more damage and stun with no drawbacks. 

 

However-

They have low dps because of infinite armor scaling 

-in the way the game works overall you're right that many damage powers become out-scaled due to armor scaling.

Having to slot a specific aura to bypass contrived difficulty is something we can do but it only shows the weakness of ho damage/defense works in the current progression model.

 

 

Effigy needs to cast it's own version of Elemental Ward in an AOE when it's out.

Sort of....I think Effigy should take mimic Chroma if he has an aura on so allies get the benifit standing either near Chroma or near effigy.

That way it serves the same purpose as what you suggest but still requires that Chroma spend the energy for Elemental Ward trigger it. 

[S7ORM]

I do get how it works and i have a build to exploit that but even how amazing the skill is, i have the feeling it would be better if the buff were inverted,  i have the feeling it doesnt reach its full potential currently. ON a side note i  dont care much about the weapon damage bonus so this isint a rant to have more damage to murder everything. 

 

Well this is just an opinion, i love chroma, i just wish all his skills would scale better so we can have multiple playstyles with it like other frames, Rhino being a prime example, we need more of these.

So you'd rather go down to 0 shields and no armor boost for your health alone? Dios Mio! Are you insane! Nonono, just because you want a damage boost, it's not worth sacrificing your life for all the 3 seconds that damage boost would do you.

The way Vex Armor is now, is perfect. My build doesn't have Redirection, which lets me drop to health faster, but with the armor boost. That way, I can get a damage boost faster, but also not die. It's better to not die than to do increased damage.

[AkerTheSpjot]

Spectral Scream desperately needs a buff, range and damage wise, it could spread out more for better cc, or simply change it to firing projectiles instead. He would probably become a fart thrower using toxin element

Elemental Ward needs better range

Vex Armor ? You know you love this ability when you find yourself punching and mowing through high level mobs in Ceres with just a pair of rank 10 Ankyros, modding with only Life Strike and Pressure Point. And as stated above :

 

Actually, damaging shield to gain armor is a neat idea, as armor is only applied to health. If armor is gained by damaging health, chroma could be dead already before armor is boosted to maximum.

So when your shield is depleted, your health is already prepared with boosted armor stat.

 

Effigy overally is a nice cc-potential skill, the radial stun is beautiful, procs are good but I would like a damage buff, maybe bump it up to somewhere around 1000-1200 ? There was also a thread mentioning giving this ability better aggro and act somewhat like a decoy. This could be used as a panic button for Chroma when needed

[Bacl]

So you'd rather go down to 0 shields and no armor boost for your health alone? Dios Mio! Are you insane! Nonono, just because you want a damage boost, it's not worth sacrificing your life for all the 3 seconds that damage boost would do you.

The way Vex Armor is now, is perfect. My build doesn't have Redirection, which lets me drop to health faster, but with the armor boost. That way, I can get a damage boost faster, but also not die. It's better to not die than to do increased damage.

No you got me totally  the wrong way lol.

 

The damage boost is what i care the least about, what i m afraid of is when i got for hight level mobs (lets say 70 + for fun) vex armor bonus scales out of shield damage which is great on his own way but it depends on shield something you might not be able to replenish for a reason or another ( constant fire and no place to hide).

 

The second the bonus is out and you dont have shield this is where you go down, i speak of experience this in when i die with Chroma, if the buffs were inverted at least whatver the situation your armor will always scale even so it wont be as effective it can be dealth with a source of healing like Life Strike. This is the reason i would like the change, not because i think the ability is bad, far from it but it could be more reliable on situations where the pressure dont allow your shield to recharge.

 

Full shield= full buff, no shield means no buff.

Health damage = maybe lesser buff, since you always have health and can affect the way it scales you could minimize the overall damage taken or for instance going fire and using that extra hp as buffer to charge Scorn, there are many ways to juggle with the numbers.

 

Wait... I'm confused. What full potential are you talking about?

The weapon bonus should be a factor to care about a lot but then if you don't much care about the weapon damage bonus then what is your goal for reversing the buff? Your way would mean that when you first get hit and take shield damage all you get is the thing you don't much care about...

then when you're finally taking hits to health you'll take far more damage the first few hist until the armor bonus reaches its apex.

 

 

eh...if we are talking end game stuff verses level 60 to 80 enemies...

 

In damage builds both Chroma and Rhino have a power that increases weapon damage which will out perform powers in dps.

In Tank builds Chroma can take more hits and scales farther than Rhino. In fact Rhino is not a very effective tank at high levels.

In CC builds Rhino's stomp is great CC but the right build on an ice or electricity Chroma can get pretty close.

In Support builds Roar is easier to get on multiple targets cause elemental ward has dreadfully short range but Chroma has more options in how to support the team.

 

Chroma's only scaling problem is that the damage on spectral scream and effigy fall off. Heck Effigy has weak damage early to mid game. So it's not a scaling issue..its a just plain weak ability issue. 

And the short range problem with elemental ward isnt a scaling issue...its a range issue that makes it hard to use at any level.

 

 Well there is a reason why a lot of people are calling Rhino the God frame.... Personally i think his iron skin is doing fine in high level, you dont face tank like in the lower tiers but played like any other frame, Iron skin will grant a descent damage buffer and most important a anti CC shield. Its is rare but i ve played game where Roar Rhinos were built around that spec, not very popular but it was viable in a proper team set up.

However i cant deny the fact Rhino really shine on his Stomp, giving the finger of honor to Chronos is priceless.

[Ronyn]

No you got me totally  the wrong way lol.

 

The damage boost is what i care the least about, what i m afraid of is when i got for hight level mobs (lets say 70 + for fun) vex armor bonus scales out of shield damage which is great on his own way but it depends on shield something you might not be able to replenish for a reason or another ( constant fire and no place to hide).

 

The second the bonus is out and you dont have shield this is where you go down, i speak of experience this in when i die with Chroma, if the buffs were inverted at least whatver the situation your armor will always scale even so it wont be as effective it can be dealth with a source of healing like Life Strike. This is the reason i would like the change, not because i think the ability is bad, far from it but it could be more reliable on situations where the pressure dont allow your shield to recharge.

 

Full shield= full buff, no shield means no buff.

Health damage = maybe lesser buff, since you always have health and can affect the way it scales you could minimize the overall damage taken or for instance going fire and using that extra hp as buffer to charge Scorn, there are many ways to juggle with the numbers.

I don't exactly agree with what you're saying here but at least now I understand your stance better.

 

 

Well there is a reason why a lot of people are calling Rhino the God frame.... Personally i think his iron skin is doing fine in high level, you dont face tank like in the lower tiers but played like any other frame, Iron skin will grant a descent damage buffer and most important a anti CC shield. Its is rare but i ve played game where Roar Rhinos were built around that spec, not very popular but it was viable in a proper team set up.

However i cant deny the fact Rhino really shine on his Stomp, giving the finger of honor to Chronos is priceless.

That's kind of my point. His iron skin is doing fine in high levels if you think of it as a "just in case" and not a "I'm a tank" ability.

Which the "I'm a tank" role is where other frames like  Valkyr, Trinity and recently Chroma exceed Rhino's lost capability.

In this way Rhino has long since lost the thrown of THE tank, moreover he has become more or less incapable of actually doing it effectively in the end game. Playing Rhino like any other frame is not tanking.

There are a few frames (Valkyr, Trinity, an Chroma) that you have every reason to not play like other frames, to purposefully place your body in harms way. Frames build to survive, excel and even get rewarded for doing so. Those frames that can actually and truly TANK. Rhino...eh...he is better off avoiding damage to iron skin when he can. That is the opposite ideal to how a tank should function, It rewards the wrong action for the role of tanking.

 

Valkyr's hysteria makes her literally unkillable.

Trinity's Link means she does damage to enemies when she gets hit.

Chroma's Vex Armor increases his resiliance and his damage based on him getting hit.

Rhino's iron skin provides protection from stuff until it breaks....better off avoiding hits when you can.

 

Of course Rhino remains a highly useful member of the group because he can buff the already strong weapons and powers with roar and CC wonderfully with stomps inherent 8 second stun that doesn't even get affected by duration mods negatively or positively letting him rely on it regardless of build.

But again..if you want an actual tank in high levels, not only are there better options that Rhino, iron skin doesn't really cut it.

I wont go into whether that needs to be adjusted or not on this thread. I'm just pointing out the pure how it works now.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ronyn

[Thelonious]

That's one of my issues with Chroma.

 

We get it, Vex Armor is a loop: you get damaged on shields to get armor to mitigate the damage on health and get the bonus damage while not dying.

While it looks great on paper, the viability of the frame is so dependant on that loop that anything which can break the loop is cause for certain death. Or frustration.

 

Like being caught pants down in the middle of a fight. Indeed, the buffs only last for the duration of the skill.

Meaning, if it ends while you're taking damage, your shields are down and part of your health too, suddenly you hit like a wet noodle with a mere 350 armor.

You melt. And recasting won't do any good. Cause you don't have shields anymore.

 

The only solution I can think about is to build for electricity, in order to get the bonus shield from the ward cast, so the loop can start again.

 

If only you could recast the ability (while still active ofc) and keep the buffs...Nope, "power in use"

 

Once I was soloing some high-tier void to test my build, managed to get something like 500% bonus damage with around 40 more seconds on the timer, just before falling down in some hole to lose everything.

I was so pissed. It's not like any other ability that you can just recast when it happens. It takes time to build up.

 

 

And sometimes, it might sound crazy, but I have troubles getting damaged enough to get the buffs.

 

With 4 frames in a game and all the CC's and AOE's flying around, sometimes, I don't even have the time to get my shields down that the room is already cleared, or your teamate decided to go melee and took aggro of all the mobs (they always shoot the closest target), while you're just standing there, longing to get damaged.

In vain.

 

I don't know, but if the frame's design is to be a support/tank (which it seems to be), might wanna look into some threat level increase on Vex, it could help...

[Endrian]

That's one of my issues with Chroma.

 

...

 

I don't know, but if the frame's design is to be a support/tank (which it seems to be), might wanna look into some threat level increase on Vex, it could help...

That was my original design for it. Vex Armor, originally designed as "Challenge," was supposed to include a taunt mechanic along with the damage->boost mechanic. Instead, they rolled the taunt mechanic into Effigy. Not saying it was a bad choice, because I love what they did with Chroma, but there you go.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Endrian

[Ronyn]

 ----

 

---

Not counting the basic tactics of playing or having allies help here are some thoughts-

If you want shields more reliably slot fast deflection, bring a Sentinel/kubrow and/or go electric as elemental ward replenishes some shields.

If you want more armor for when Vex drops off slot steel fiber and/or go ice as elemental ward raises armor.

If enemies are have you under constant fire rely on some stuns electric or freeze elemental ward and/or trigger Effigy as that has some stuns.

If you absolutely need to damage yourself for some reason carry something like an Ogris and shoot it at your feet.

 

Honestly I feel like Chroma has the tools to deal with all of these concerns.

If you're just looking at Vex Armor to do it all by itself....its asking for too much. Its only part of his total  kit.