Excalibur: An Alternate Take And Proposal On His Upcoming Rework.

[Ronyn]

Hi guys

I bring you a slightly different take on the upcoming Excalibur rework.

First please look at Excalibur's current pages description and video.

https://warframe.com/game/warframes?id=Excalibur

And of course consider Excalibur's current conundrum.

As the game has changed some of Excalibur's powers and attributes have fallen either behind the curve or become somewhat obsolete. A perfect example is how the core mobility of the game. When Excalibur was first made there was no wall running and there was no aerial melee. This has changed the importance of super jump. In the coming months we will receive Movement 2.0 which will give us a "charge jump" that will act similarly to superjump. This will render super jump more obsolete than it is now because all warframes will access to something quite similar to it. He needs all of his powers to remain relevant in the new landscape of warframe.

Moreover there are many reasons to expect Excalibur to be able to excel in melee combat considering he is named after a famous sword, he has sword based powers and he is shown in many trailers wielding a sword to great effect. Sadly at this time Excalibur lacks the ability to excel in melee combat overall. There are many ways to improve his melee capability. Other frames in the game have shown multiple ways for it to work like loki's invisibility, Volt's shocking speed, Chroma's Vex armor, and of course Valkyr;s hysteria. Most recently DE has suggested they the current path is to go with a full on melee mode where Excalibur draws a sword of energy and fights with it as it sends out energy waves. For some this is a wonderful expression of how they view Excalibur, for others this is viewed as limiting and a departure from Excalibur as they know him.

The complication there is coming from is a schism in the community over what Excalibur is, what he is intended to be and/or what he "should" be. Some suggest he is a "generalist or jack of all trades", Others suggest he is a "melee frame or a swordsman". I propose that we don't actually have to choose just one or the other.
The trick is give him the capacity to play as people make him. Avoid locking him into anything, instead set him free to be what we make him.

Now let us look at my ideas. (and don't miss the alternate version for the sword mode lovers in the spoiler at the end!)

My goal here is to provide a version of Excalibur that combines the two major viewpoints on what he should be.
Effectively allowing him to be viewed as an incredible melee frame OR as more of a generalist based on the players build. Additionally I am attempting to add some synergy to his powers so they work best in combination with each other. Most of what I suggest is similar to what was talked about on the last devstream. Though there are some notable differences and some fancy names. I've taken a lot of inspiration from the various good ideas floating around on the boards. Please read on-

Base Stats-I don't want to spend too much time on this part but I recommend that Excalibur get a far better armor rating than he has now. It helps a lot with many melee focused builds. I'll leave it at that.

1: Severance: Excalibur surges forward with his energy sword in hand, slashing at every enemy within the cone of effect. This will cause a guaranteed slash proc on all enemies hit.

2: Radiance: Excalibur raises his energy sword and emits a flash of blinding light. All enemies in range will be blinded for a few seconds. Any attack on them during the stun will count as finisher damage therefore bypassing shields and armor that way all manner of attacks will be benefited from this action. Excalibur can continue moving while he casts this power.

3: Defiance: Excalibur summons multiple energy swords that orbit around his body in a vertical position. They intercept all incoming projectiles reducing the damage he takes by X percent and lasts for Y seconds. Upon pressing the button again the swords fly outward in all directions skewering all enemies nearby potentially impaling them to walls. This attack does puncture damage with a guaranteed puncture proc. Any enemies currently under a slash proc will take additional damage from it. making it wise to combo into after Severance.
The initial cast of Defiance will be a one handed action. However the act of sending the swords outward in all directions will come with an animation where Excalibur sticks an energy sword into the ground.

4: Exceed: Excalibur focus's energy through his body which increases the positive effects of all equipped mods on his frame and weapons by X percent. This has an energy cost of Y per second and is a toggle ability that can be canceled any time by pressing the command again. Activating it is a one handed action.
Example: For simplicity sake I will act as though Exceed increases the effectiveness of equipped mods by 100 percent. That number is just for illustration, real numbers are decided in testing. Ok so if you have a maxed redirection mod slotted it raises shields by 440 percent. During Exceed mode it will raise shields by 880 percent. Likewise if you have fury slotted in your melee weapon the speed boost will go from 30 percent to 60 percent. Imagine how that would play out with different builds!
This is the key to a player being able to truly choose what kind of frame he will be.
Disclaimer: Again I chose the 100 percent increase for simplicity sake. If some other percentage, 90, 80,50 or whatever is better that is fine. A few attributes might even need some caps to make sure this is well balanced. As not all attributes are equal in practice.

Note: According to recent devstreams we know that there are two changes coming to the game that will act somewhat differently during Exceed mode.
When Charge jump is added to the game Excalibur will jump twice as high during Exceed mode.
When Charge melee attacks are added back to the game Excalibur will send out an energy wave from every charged swing during Exceed mode.
---------------------------------------------------

Alright, time for questions and feedback. This is my first draft of this concept so I welcome ways to sharpen it up. Party on Tenno.

EDIT on 4/12: I re-worded a few sentences in Exceed to increase clarity at first glance.

EDIT on 4/13: I added in an alternate version of my idea for those who REALLY want Excalibur to get a "sword mode" ult.

EDIT on 4/20: I added in another alternate version of my idea based on the sword summoner theme.

 

First alt version: Here is an alternate version of my idea for those who really, REALLY want Excalibur to get a "sword mode" ult.

I have rolled radiance's effects into the defiance power to make room for a new power called Immanence.

You'll find it in the spoiler below.

 

Base Stats-I don't want to spend too much time on this part but I recommend that Excalibur get a far better armor rating than he has now. It helps a lot with many melee focused builds. I'll leave it at that.

1: Severance: Excalibur surges forward with his energy sword in hand, slashing at every enemy within the cone of effect. This will cause a guaranteed slash proc on all enemies hit.

2: Defiance: Excalibur summons multiple energy swords that orbit around his body in a vertical position. They intercept all incoming projectiles reducing the damage he takes by X percent and lasts for Y seconds. Upon pressing the button again, Excalibur raises his energy sword up and the circling swords fly outward in all directions. All enemies hit by a sword will be left in a "prone" state for a Z seconds. Any attack on them during that time will count as finisher damage therefore bypassing shields and armor that way all manner of attacks will be benefited from this action.  Any enemies currently under a slash proc will also take damage from this power. Making it wise to combo into after Severance. Both the initial cast and the releasing cast of Defiance will be a one handed action.

 

3: Exceed: Excalibur focus's energy through his body which increases the positive effects of all equipped mods on his frame and weapons by X percent. This has an energy cost of Y per second and is a toggle ability that can be canceled any time by pressing the command again. Activating it is a one handed action.
Example: For simplicity sake I will act as though Exceed increases the effectiveness of equipped mods by 100 percent. That number is just for illistration, real numbers are decided in testing. Ok so if you have a maxed redirection mod slotted it raises shields by 440 percent. During Exceed mode it will raise shields by 880 percent. Likewise if you have fury slotted in your melee weapon the speed boost will go from 30 percent to 60 percent. Imagine how that would play out with different builds!
This is the key to a player being able to truly choose what kind of frame he will be.
Disclaimer: Again I chose the 100 percent increase for simplicity sake. If some other percentage, 90, 80,50 or whatever is better that is fine. A few attributes might even need some caps to make sure this is well balanced. As not all attributes are equal in practice.

Note: According to recent devstreams we know that a charged jump will be coming to Warframe.
When Charge jump is added to the game Excalibur will jump twice as high during Exceed mode.

 

4: Immanence: Excalibur creates his energy sword in his hand and will wield it like a melee weapon. This will last for X seconds. It has it's own unique stance and animations. Every swing of this sword releases a wave of energy that flies out Y meters from the blade and does Z damage on the targets it hit's.

These waves will go out their full distance striking any and all enemies in the line. This power is calculated based on power strength, it's width is effected by range mods, and it's distance traveled is effected by duration mods. Additionally the energy waves will take on the elemental property of Excalibur's currently equipped melee weapon.  

 

 

Second Alt version: This next proposal, Inspired by an idea from WolvenEdge, is taking the ideas from the first two then pushing Excalibur fully into a "sword summoner" style of frame. He retains the full list of versatility based abilities and melee ranged striking capability. In addition to having access to his special energy sword he gains the ability to create and use "phantom swords" as both a shield and as projectiles. Ultimately this concept would make him a truly mobile swordsman. Note the unique interaction between Severance and Seventh sword in this version.

Base Stats-I don't want to spend too much time on this part but I recommend that Excalibur get a far better armor rating than he has now. It helps a lot with many melee focused builds. I'll leave it at that. Note: Additional stamina is of huge importance for a melee frame but it is my understanding that is about to be reworked so I will wait and see what happens.

1: Severance: Excalibur surges forward with his energy sword in hand, slashing at every enemy within the cone of effect. This will cause a guaranteed slash proc on all enemies hit.

 

Severance can be aimed toward any enemy currently impaled by a phantom sword (explained later) and will inherently reach them at an extended range of up to X distance. If a target has multiple phantom swords impaling them Excalibur will strike them an additional time for each energy sword causing Y damage. All enemies between Excalibur and his selected target will be hit by severances usual effects.

 

Using Severance in this manner does not cost energy but instead consumes the phantom sword currently impaling the target.

2: Defiance: Excalibur summons multiple phantom swords that orbit around his body in a vertical position. They intercept all incoming projectiles reducing the damage he takes by X percent and lasts for Y seconds. Upon pressing the button again, Excalibur raises his energy sword up and the circling phantom swords fly outward in all directions. All enemies hit by a phantom sword will be left in a "prone" state for a Z seconds, and the phantom sword will disappear after a very short timne. Any attack on them during that time will count as finisher damage therefore bypassing shields and armor that way all manner of attacks will be benefited from this action.  Any enemies currently under a slash proc will also take damage from this power. Making it wise to combo into after Severance. Both the initial cast and the releasing cast of Defiance will be a one handed action.

 

3: Exceed: Excalibur focus's energy through his body which increases the positive effects of all equipped mods on his frame and weapons by X percent. This has an energy cost of Y per second and is a toggle ability that can be canceled any time by pressing the command again. Activating it is a one handed action.
Example: For simplicity sake I will act as though Exceed increases the effectiveness of equipped mods by 100 percent. That number is just for illistration, real numbers are decided in testing. Ok so if you have a maxed redirection mod slotted it raises shields by 440 percent. During Exceed mode it will raise shields by 880 percent. Likewise if you have fury slotted in your melee weapon the speed boost will go from 30 percent to 60 percent. Imagine how that would play out with different builds!
This is the key to a player being able to truly choose what kind of frame he will be.
Disclaimer: Again I chose the 100 percent increase for simplicity sake. If some other percentage, 90, 80,50 or whatever is better that is fine. A few attributes might even need some caps to make sure this is well balanced. As not all attributes are equal in practice.

Note: According to recent devstreams we know that a charged jump will be coming to Warframe.
When Charge jump is added to the game Excalibur will jump twice as high during Exceed mode.

 

4: Seventh Sword: Excalibur creates an energy sword in his hand and will wield it like a melee weapon. This will last for X seconds. It has it's own unique stance and animations. This weapon strikes with the various damage types and elemental effects based on Excalibur regular melee weapon but with an enhanced chance to trigger any potential procs. While active Excalibur does not loose Stamina from blocking.

 

Additionally six phantom swords appear and float (roughly in the shape of a pair of wings) behind Excalibur. These phantom swords also take on the various damage types and elemental effects based on Excalibur regular melee weapon. Every swing of Excalibur's energy sword will send out one of these phantom swords to the cross hairs. If the phantom sword connect with an enemy it will impale them, remaining in them for X seconds leaving them stunned and causing a Y damage. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Ronyn

[Ordel]

"Example: If you have a maxed redirection mod slotted it raises shields by 440 percent. During Exceed mode it will raise armor by 880 percent."

 

What?

 

--

 

Anyways, out of the many excalibroken threads, this one is the best. Instead of just whining, you give actual constructive feedback (and not the terrible "constructive" feedback most of the community spits out)

Nice ideas, I can tell this was thought out logically.

+1 to everything.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ordel

[Ronyn]

Anyways, out of the many excalibroken threads, this one is the best. Instead of just whining, you give actual constructive feedback (and not the terrible constructive feedback most of the community spits out)

Nice ideas, I can tell this was thought out logically.

+1 to everything.

Thanks.

 

 

"Example: If you have a maxed redirection mod slotted it raises shields by 440 percent. During Exceed mode it will raise armor by 880 percent."

 

What?

--

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I can explain it any better if I rewrite it in different words. :-)

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ronyn

[Ordel]

Thanks.

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I can explain it any better if I rewrite in different words. :-)

 

I was mentioning that because you said a Redirection (shield mod) raises Excalibur's armor, which is usually raised by the Steel Fiber mod. Not sure if that's how it's meant or if you meant it should double his shields (which is what the description implies)

 

It's not really anything important, I was just nitpicking because I couldn't find anything else to nitpick on. xD

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ordel

[Ronyn]

I was mentioning that because you said a Redirection (shield mod) raises Excalibur's armor, which is usually raised by the Steel Fiber mod. Not sure if that's how it's meant or if you meant it should double his shields (which is what the description implies)

oh mistype! good catch Ill fix that.

 

 

You mentioned Redirection, but then you said that Exceed would raise ARMOUR by 880%. I believe you meant shields. Nothing major, just a small typo.

Right. I went back and fixed that. Thank you and Ordel for catching it. :-)

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ronyn

[BurntMyWater]

Thanks.

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I can explain it any better if I rewrite it in different words. :-)

You mentioned Redirection, but then you said that Exceed would raise ARMOUR by 880%. I believe you meant shields. Nothing major, just a small typo.

[BurntMyWater]

Damn. Tenno'd

[BAR_GUNNER]

I really like the idea of Exceed, but I think it will either become insanely broken or OP, this will change modding dramatically for both  the warframe and weapons. A good example is corrupted mods, both the positive and negative attribute will be doubled, so using Heavy cal. will not be the best idea if you are not doing close range, but on the other end damage is increased a huge amount.If an excal player is using the usual pistol build of Hornet strike, Barrel diffusion, and Lethal torrent, they would do 440% dmg, 360% multishot (3 shots guaranteed with possible 4th), and 120% fire rate, without any other mods. If someone were to use a high tier late game weapon that is highly modded for maximum dmg, then doubled, it could be insanely Overpowered, not to mention adding strength mods to the warframe. If it is possible to add on to it and do so and without limits, it could possibly go to quadruple dmg. This could severely break the game, but I really do like the Idea of a stat boost to everything for an ult, if it were bonus dmg based on warframe strength it would still do decent damage without being too broken.

 

Edit: just read through Exceed a second time and realized it said only positive effects, sorry I'm half asleep at the moment.

Edited April 12, 2015 by BAR_GUNNER

[Ronyn]

 

 

Edit: just read through Exceed a second time and realized it said only positive effects, sorry I'm half asleep at the moment.

heh. fair enough. i was about to re explain that.

 

 

 insanely broken or OP.... damage is increased a huge amount...This could severely break the game,

I have the same concerns. That's why I said-

Disclaimer: I chose to double the amount for simplicity sake. If some other percentage, 90, 80,50 or whatever is better that is fine. A few attributes might even need some caps to make sure this is well balanced.

 

-------------------------

 I really do like the Idea of a stat boost to everything for an ult, if it were bonus dmg based on warframe strength it would still do decent damage without being too broken.

The reason I didn't go with overall increase based on power strength is that it promotes stacking power strength mods for every build.

My goal is to promote true modding variety. I think that would be extra beneficial for the "perfect training warframe" as it is meant to train people on warframes various systems.

[Noble_Cactus]

Good ideas. I particularly like Defiance as a Radial Javelin rework. It reminds me a lot of Summoned Swords from the DMC series (which I remember Blatantfool citing in his own deal rework thread many moons ago), along with other games and various media. Indirect synergy with other moves in a toolkit to create a positive feedback loop for the player is a core element of designing ARPG characters, and if Chroma's Vex/Effigy/Ward synergy is anything to go by, this idea of some iteration of it would fit in well with the current direction in which DE is taking frames.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[Ronyn]

Good ideas. I particularly like Defiance as a Radial Javelin rework. It reminds me a lot of Summoned Swords from the DMC series (which I remember Blatantfool citing in his own deal rework thread many moons ago), along with other games and various media.

Right on. The idea of summoned swords has been brought up quite a bit for a long time.

I thought it was an appropriate idea if I could find a function or it that seemed like a good fit.

 

 

 Indirect synergy with other moves in a toolkit to create a positive feedback loop for the player is a core element of designing ARPG characters, and if Chroma's Vex/Effigy/Ward synergy is anything to go by, this idea of some iteration of it would fit in well with the current direction in which DE is taking frames.

Awesome you totally get the whole synergy thing. 

[Xaero]

So with Exceed he goes from underpowered to overpowered? :D

I mean, Xcal is my favourite frame and all, but with this ultimate he's gonna become much more stronger than any other frame.

Actually, I think the rework of abilities that DE gonna make is fine but I'm worried of his base stats. Cuz it's strange to be a melee frame without a good survivability and nice buffs to the melee weapon.

[Ronyn]

So with Exceed he goes from underpowered to overpowered? :D

I mean, Xcal is my favourite frame and all, but with this ultimate he's gonna become much more stronger than any other frame.

It's not remotely that simple. How strong he becomes during Exceed depends on the percentage used.

Though keep in mind that several other frames have specializations that go farther than what a Exceed would grant even if it was at 100 percent increase of mods. During Exceed Excalibur still would not be able to become as tanky as chroma or valkyr, he wouldn't be able to get as fast as volt or as agile as Zephyr. He would be able to be strong in many ways but never overtake anyone's specialization.

 

Actually, I think the rework of abilities that DE gonna make is fine but I'm worried of his base stats. Cuz it's strange to be a melee frame without a good survivability and nice buffs to the melee weapon.

That's part of the point of my proposal. To make him capable of playing as a melee frame without locking him into it as if that is his entire identity.

[DrBorris]

Hmmmmm, I really like that Exceed ability. However, I would love for Excalibur to get the Hysteria-ish ability. 

 

Can we just screw Radial Javelin? Just let the poor ability die, it has had a nice run but that Exceed ability would give Excalibur the "versatility" to be more than just a melee frame. 

[DarkestAbyss]

Your Ultimate sounds insanely broken. DE is trying to make this frame a viable frame. Not a broken go to frame. What you did there for his ultimate was just overall broken. Any mods gets a 2x boost? come on dude...really. That just made all his other skills obsolete.

[Ronyn]

Your Ultimate sounds insanely broken. DE is trying to make this frame a viable frame. Not a broken go to frame. What you did there for his ultimate was just overall broken. Any mods gets a 2x boost? come on dude...really. That just made all his other skills obsolete.

Lol. Did you bother to read the disclaimer right after it?

[Kruglov]

 

 

4: Exceed: Excalibur focus's energy through his body which doubles the positive effects of all equipped mods on his frame and weapons. This has an energy cost of X per second and is a toggle ability that can be canceled any time by pressing the command again. Activating it is a one handed action.

Example: If you have a maxed redirection mod slotted it raises shields by 440 percent. During Exceed mode it will raise shields by 880 percent. Likewise if you have fury slotted in your melee weapon the speed boost will go from 30 percent to 60 percent. Imagine how that would play out with different builds.

This is the key to a player being able to truly choose what kind of frame he will be. 

 

This is actually pretty damn brilliant.

And the name EXCEED is good for it.

 

200% is probably a bit much.

I only say this because the new PRIMED mods have shown even having double continuity / max mana has entirely changed how alot of frames were meant to be played.

But theres no way to really know without testing it obviously.

 

I also can't help but wonder if Exceed might be better if it buffed his other 3 abilities by 200% or more. Although how one makes a blind better I can't imagine.

 

Lancer: "help! i'm not just blind! i'm 200% more blind!"

Vay Hek: "wat"

 

The new Radial Javelin sounds fantastic as well because it doubles as a Defensive and also an Offensive ability.

And if Mesa, Mirage, Loki, Ash, Chroma, Oberon, Zephyr, and Saryn have shown us anything it's that mobile defense minded abilities = popular frames because people can be helpful while also keeping an eye out for themselves.

[Ronyn]

This is actually pretty damn brilliant.

And the name EXCEED is good for it.

200% is probably a bit much.

I only say this because the new PRIMED mods have shown even having double continuity / max mana has entirely changed how alot of frames were meant to be played.

But theres no way to really know without testing it obviously.

I also can't help but wonder if Exceed might be better if it buffed his other 3 abilities by 200% or more. Although how one makes a blind better I can't imagine.

Lancer: "help! i'm not just blind! i'm 200% more blind!"

Vay Hek: "wat"

The new Radial Javelin sounds fantastic as well because it doubles as a Defensive and also an Offensive ability.

And if Mesa, Mirage, Loki, Ash, Chroma, Oberon, Zephyr, and Saryn have shown us anything it's that mobile defense minded abilities = popular frames because people can be helpful while also keeping an eye out for themselves.

Thanks....you've got the idea.

As the disclaimer on the end of the paragraph explains: I only went with double to make math simple. There is certainly a better pecentage than that and some attributes will likely need caps. Plus there is the question of how long this would last...the main thing is to understand the potential of the concept which you totally do. :-)

[(XBOX)SkinnyANOINTED1]

This defiance and exceed are two abilities that I can support. I hope the devs take a look at these.

[Ordel]

For the record since several people seem to be incapable of third grade reading..

 

Ronyn's 4th ability (Exceed) isn't meant to be a 2x multiplier. It's just an example for simplicity sake..

 

Disclaimer: I chose to double the amount for simplicity sake. If some other percentage, 90, 80,50 or whatever is better that is fine. A few attributes might even need some caps to make sure this is well balanced. -op

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ordel

[Ronyn]

 

For the record since several people seem to be incapable of third grade reading..

 

Ronyn's 4th ability (Exceed) isn't meant to be a 2x multiplier. It's just an example for simplicity sake..

 

Disclaimer: I chose to double the amount for simplicity sake. If some other percentage, 90, 80,50 or whatever is better that is fine. A few attributes might even need some caps to make sure this is well balanced. -op

lol...it does seem to be confusing some folks. Perhaps I should rewrite that section to be more clear that it's just a theoretical number for illistrative purposes. Edited April 12, 2015 by Ronyn

[JayGideon1]

I actually dont think doubling everything would be a bad move, if it doubled the negatives of corrupted mods then it could be balanced. Like having in insane heavy caliber damage but horrendous accuracy seems like an ok trade off (high risk high reward since you would need to be up close and personal  and like OP said there are other frames than boost other stats way more than a simple 100%. it would keep the all around thing excal has going on. But i do like this rework over all!

[Malitias]

Hmm.. you really really don't want him to have that hysteria-like ability, eh?

 

We have alot of frames which you can pretty much "build-how-you-want-to". Themed frames like Mesa, Valkyr and Excalibur are an exception here.

I don't think it would hurt to have them actually live up to their theme. I actually want them to do so.

I mean, wouldn't it be kind of weird to have Mesa, who focuses on gunplay, run around using melee weapons all the time, or a Valkyr carefully sniping away infested instead of charging into the fray? To me, it's the same with Excalibur. When I select Excalibur, I select him because I want to play a sword-themed frame. If I wanted something else I'd pick a different frame.

[Mesyra]

very long post, but worth the read.

 

+1

[Ronyn]

Hmm.. you really really don't want him to have that hysteria-like ability, eh?

How about we talk about the actual content of my post?

 

We have alot of frames which you can pretty much "build-how-you-want-to".  Themed frames like Mesa, Valkyr and Excalibur are an exception here.

Mechanically speaking that is not really true. Most frames have certain strengths and lack several others.

Thematically there may be some open area, but in practice they have certain distinct limitations.

 

I don't think it would hurt to have them actually live up to their theme. I actually want them to do so.

I mean, wouldn't it be kind of weird to have Mesa, who focuses on gunplay, run around using melee weapons all the time, or a Valkyr carefully sniping away infested instead of charging into the fray? To me, it's the same with Excalibur. When I select Excalibur, I select him because I want to play a sword-themed frame. If I wanted something else I'd pick a different frame.

Are you suggesting that if Excalibur doesn't have a mode where is locked into using a sword he isn't living up to his theme?

Are you also suggesting that Excalibur's theme of "swordsman" is mutually exclusive of his role of "build how you want" to?

Are you also suggesting that Excalibur's ONLY theme is swordsman and that his whole theme of "training frame, learn warframes systems" is non existent or unimportant?

 

You may seek out Excalibur for one set of reasons, others have a different set of reasons. Can only one side be happy?

In my opinion both the "swordsman" theme and the "training, learn warframes systems" theme can be achieved simultaneously.

That is what this thread is about. Not choosing one side but appealing to both. 

 

-----------------

 

In my suggestion-

With the first three powers utilizing his energy swords and the exceed ability allowing a player to go full melee if one chooses there is simply no reasonable argument to say he doesn't fulfill the swordsman ideal. Even those who build him in a different way, for a different style of play, will still rely on his powers which use a sword based aesthetic. The theme is very apparent. 

It simply isn't overbearing to the point where it excludes other options.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Ronyn