Trinity Is A Problem

[Echowing]

Before I begin, it should be noted that I both play, and enjoy using, Trinity as a Warframe.  However, her power set is incredibly problematic for the balance of the game as a whole.  I don't want to call for further nerfs to her abilities, but if it would lead to better game design and balance, it would be for the best.  The biggest offender to balance is her ultimate ability, Blessing.  Blessing will almost immediately restore your team's health and shields to full, regardless of range.  This is VERY bad for game balance.  If your teammate (let's say a rhino with 500 HP and 500 Shields) takes any amount of non-lethal damage, Trinity can press 4 and instantly negate that damage.  This means that any single attack dealing less that 1000 damage is useless, as it will have no net effect on the Trinity or her ally.  While this would normally mean that Trinity would have to conserve her energy, and save her Blessing for major emergencies, Energy Vampire completely negates any requirement of conservation.  Trinity can refill her energy supply practically at will, allowing her to render her team largely unkillable.  This means that in turn, in order to stand even a chance against any team with a Trinity on it, enemies have to be so powerful that they can instantly kill all but the toughest players, leading to problematic designs, such as players actively avoiding killing enemies in the raid, or high level missions being dominated by a select few frames.  Trinity as a concept is great, she can restore energy to allies, and heal them when they take damage.  However, in practice, she invalidates all challenge that does not involve instant death, which is a very binary and boring design in a game like Warframe.

 

TL;DR: Trinity's Blessing makes it such that any hit that is not an instant kill is meaningless, and Energy Vampire makes Blessing's normally high cost meaningless.  In order to kill Trinity or her allies, they have to kill in a single hit, which is not fun.

[Stormandreas]

Em... no, lets not change Blessing, otherwise its just Well of Life.

The role of a healer is to... heal, and blessing does it perfectly.

[low1991]

heal =/= giving xx% damage reduction.

healing is just restore HP.

 

The role of a healer is to... heal, and blessing does it perfectly.

[AdunSaveMe]

It has a cast animation and relies on the player reacting fast enough to use it.

Trust me when I say it is still very easy to mess it up in high-level content.

 

There's really nothing you could do to blessing that wouldn't make trinity fall off faster than ember.

 

And to be honest, most of the high level stuff is pretty much attempting to invalidate instant deaths. You do this with CC spam, funneling, hard defense abilities and things like Trinity, because of infinite scaling.

It's a binary and boring design that counters a binary and boring design.

Edited April 19, 2015 by AdunSaveMe

[BluelitHalo]

I'm not sure I understand... are you saying that having a good healer-frame is a problem in and of itself? Because if that's the case then this thread isn't going to end well.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Sonitorum

[BrotherIcarus]

Yes this is why a Trinity is in every team comp...

[Echowing]

I'm not sure I understand... are you saying that having a good healer-frame is a problem in and of itself? Because if that's the case then this thread isn't going to end well.

The problem isn't that she can heal, that in and of itself is fine, the problem is that with one move she instantly refills the HP and Shields of her whole team.  Having a heal such as Oberon or a fire Chroma is ok, but the ability to instantly heal her entire team to full with practically no cost (due to EV refilling her energy) makes most damage done to her team pointless.  It's not that she can heal, it's that it's a 100% heal with almost no cost and infinite range.  It makes her a required frame in a lot of teams, and then the content has to be balanced around her ability.  That in turn makes it so that teams without Trinity are at a severe disadvantage, and further makes her presence a requirement.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Echowing

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Energy Vampire is the problem. Because it restores energy for her and everyone else it creates an infinite loop that's just another way to break the energy gate. It should provide a different benefit for Trinity instead of restoring her energy, instead only restoring energy for teammates. As it is right now, she essentially has every ability whenever she wants to use it.

Perhaps it could create overshields for her based on the amount of energy taken (with a cap that prevents infinite shields).

[XxCurtennoxX]

The problem isn't that she can heal, that in and of itself is fine, the problem is that with one move she instantly refills the HP and Shields of her whole team. Having a heal such as Oberon or a fire Chroma is ok, but the ability to instantly heal her entire team to full with practically no cost (due to EV refilling her energy) makes most damage done to her team pointless. It's not that she can heal, it's that it's a 100% heal with almost no cost and infinite range. It makes her a required frame in a lot of teams, and then the content has to be balanced around her ability. That in turn makes it so that teams without Trinity are at a severe disadvantage, and further makes her presence a requirement.

Er... She's a pure support frame unlike Oberon or Chroma...

You get ALL of my imaginary downvotes.

Seriously... Healer frame can heal... PLS NERF

Edited April 19, 2015 by XxCurtennoxX

[Aaira]

Chroma and Oberon's heals aren't ultimates, that's why they're not as strong as blessing (which used to also grant party-wide godmode).

If anything they should make it so EV doesn't tick all the power it had yet to restore on target's death (which is how it was before) so having a Trin doesn't automatically mean everyone can spam everything everytime with no regard to power(peoplemwould actually have to not kill the blue glowing dude, which would act as a energy restore item) but eh, whatever, she only appears unkillable in the fantasy world of theorycraft, in the actual game things are often different.

 

And honestly, after a certain point everyting basically instakills you.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Aaira

[XxCurtennoxX]

Energy Vampire is the problem. Because it restores energy for her and everyone else it creates an infinite loop that's just another way to break the energy gate. It should provide a different benefit for Trinity instead of restoring her energy, instead only restoring energy for teammates. As it is right now, she essentially has every ability whenever she wants to use it.

Perhaps it could create overshields for her based on the amount of energy taken (with a cap that prevents infinite shields).

She has an augment that does that exact thing -.-

[Reaver_X]

.....im not even gonna touch this thread with a 39 and a half foot pole

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

And then there is corrupted bombards, who does around 2k damage within 5meter radius... insta killing most of frames and especially trinity. Trinity doesnt need anymore changes.

[(XBOX)HacSawJimThugin]

Trinity is fine, she just needs a prime. Go cry somewhere else.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

She has an augment that does that exact thing -.-

Then she could have it changed.

[Echowing]

And then there is corrupted bombards, who does around 2k damage within 5meter radius... insta killing most of frames and especially trinity. Trinity doesnt need anymore changes.

That's the point I'm trying to make though.  If we don't have frames that can constantly keep the team at 100% HP regardless of the damage coming their way, we don't need enemies with instant kill attacks like the bombards.  The fact that there is a frame that can prevent death as strongly as Trinity forces enemies to be much stronger than they need to be when fighting any other composition.

[HibikiGanaha]

The problem isn't that she can heal, that in and of itself is fine, the problem is that with one move she instantly refills the HP and Shields of her whole team.  Having a heal such as Oberon or a fire Chroma is ok, but the ability to instantly heal her entire team to full with practically no cost (due to EV refilling her energy) makes most damage done to her team pointless.  It's not that she can heal, it's that it's a 100% heal with almost no cost and infinite range.  It makes her a required frame in a lot of teams, and then the content has to be balanced around her ability.  That in turn makes it so that teams without Trinity are at a severe disadvantage, and further makes her presence a requirement.

Blessing isn't a 100% heal, it scales with power strength.  If you are going to make a troll nerf thread, you should probably know how the ability you want nerfed works.

[Echowing]

Blessing isn't a 100% heal, it scales with power strength.  If you are going to make a troll nerf thread, you should probably know how the ability you want nerfed works.

At base it is an 80% restore, and reaches 100% with only 30% power strength.  Since most end-game Trinity builds focus on power to get the most out of energy vampire, reaching that 30% is nothing.

[EchoesOfRain]

I'll agree that Trinity does have some issues, but I feel like she just needs a rework into the right direction. Blessing is too much of a free heal. I understand the whole "healing frame", but this heal is way too good. I say rework her Blessing and her Well of Life a bit.

 

Have Well of Life place down shrines that pulse out healing waves, like energy vampire, but can't be destroyed to immediately let out remaining health, and it doesn't require an enemy to aim at.

 

And for Blessing, give all allies an armor buff, as well as giving a strong health regen. for a duration. Heck, stack more buffs onto it it that doesn't feel like enough

[bl4ckhunter]

i don't understand the op difficulty in finding enemies that can deal more than 1000dmg in 1.5s (the minimum blessing duration), pretty much two lvl 35 grinner ballistas can put a rhino with maxed redirection vigor and vitality down from full health faster than a trinity can heal it, seriously blessing ain't that useful even if the user it's spamming it, it's rendundant for any mission that spawns enemies under lvl 30 (which i can stomp in any frame with a single catalist and no forma) and useful for lvl 35+ content only if used with a quickthinking build to get 99% damage reduction, and as anyone who's played mirage/armor chroma in high level missions can tell you 99% of an heavy unit's damage can kill you just fine very easily 

seriously if anything about trinity is op that is energy vampire, but really blessing is op? stop kidding me

Edited April 19, 2015 by bl4ckhunter

[AdunSaveMe]

Rework enemy variety and scaling first

[Batwing]

I swear De has hired people to post these things because all she gets is nerfs and then skiped for prime. SHe was made to be hated and bashed into the ground it seems.

 

No i disagree 500% if anything she needs a new first ability her ult and other skills are fine, just because people use her to skill spam a map doesn't mean she has to be nerfed into the ground also why is that even a problem ? First trinities EV then they remove energy restores and add cool downs to skills it will never end with this community.

[RealPandemonium]

We should fix weapon and enemy scaling before trying to find a place for Blessing.  

[HibikiGanaha]

At base it is an 80% restore, and reaches 100% with only 30% power strength.  Since most end-game Trinity builds focus on power to get the most out of energy vampire, reaching that 30% is nothing.

Your post implies she can both give infinite energy and give 99% DR on the same build.

 

If you build for EV you have 12% duration, so blessing is useless.

 

If you build for Blessing, you have significantly lower range and power strength with a lot of duration, rendering EV useless.

[Echowing]

Your post implies she can both give infinite energy and give 99% DR on the same build.

 

If you build for EV you have 12% duration, so blessing is useless.

 

If you build for Blessing, you have significantly lower range and power strength with a lot of duration, rendering EV useless.

I never mentioned damage resistance.  I meant that if an enemy hits Trinity or her ally, regardless of how much damage was done, if that attack did not kill, it effectively did 0 damage, due to blessing's instant full heal.