The Nerfers

[RavenousPartyLibrarian]

Well, there's your problem.

I'll go have some fun or something.

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

Well, there's your problem.

I'll go have some fun or something.

 

Its only my problem, as you nefers complainers created it with your nerf envy. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)thehoocodfather

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

A game where every weapon is equal in every way to every other weapon, would be the most boring, dreary and tedious game ever invented.

[BlueQuail]

 

Did you have a synoid ? 

Yeah. A good friend gifted me one.

Also there is no such thing as "nerf envy" or "jealousy" about overpowered weapons.

Edited April 20, 2015 by BlueQuail

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

Yeah. A good friend gifted me one.

 

 

LOL 

 

so you didnt do the grind to get one.

 

Figures. 

[(PSN)fizzer94]

Because good balance doesn't only apply to PVP, but PVE as well.

There should be no "best gun". Period. The Synoid is a good example of breaking this rule. It is the hands down best gun in the game, no arguments.

Some stuff needs nerfs, some stuff needs buffs. I understand the concept of tiers, but when a single weapon or itwm is so powerful that all other weapons in the game become absolute next to it, it needs to be nerfed.

This community, overall, though, is way too sensitive to the word Nerf, and having their items nerfed. Get over yourselves. Some guns are OP. So they have been nerfed. It had and has to happen for the good of the game, rather than the good of some players. Too bad for you, huh? Adapt or die.

But I've said it before, the best way to not get your precious items nerfed is to not use blatantly OP weapons and become physically attached to the crutch.

[MechNexus]

ohboyherewegoagain.jpg

Balance is required in every game, not just PvP, for a multitude of reasons - In a PvE game, if a weapon is overpowered, the meta will shift into using nothing but one or a handful of weapons.

You may notice that, when a new weapon comes out, if it doesn't match up to whatever the fashionable weapon is at the time, people dismiss it as mastery fodder and throw it away.

People are unlikely to buy weapons with that reputation, which is bad for DE for obvious reasons, but also bad for the players - You are simply creating an illusion of choice. Why do all these weapons exist, when only a handful are viable? A player may like weapon A a lot, but weapon B is infinitely more powerful, and will feel gimped for not using it.

 

Which brings me onto the next point - Overpowered gear makes the game far too easy, and this is even worse for Warframe as part of the business model relies on the game being challenging enough.

If you can just cut through enemies with the snap of a finger and minimal effort, farming becomes a joke, and players will get bored extremely quickly if nothing puts up a fight.

Cutting through a platoon of soldiers with one magazine might be fun the first few times, but will quickly become boring the next hundred unless they challenge the player.

 

So, of course, you simply nerf the overpowered weapon, and everything is fine and dandy. Of course, if a weapon is underpowered, you buff it - That's balance as well, but one argument I see people spit out is "just buff everything else" - this is a monumentally bad idea.

For starters, think about it logistically, you have a hundred weapons in your game, but only, say, five are out of line. You're asking the developers to rework over 90% of the game's arsenal in that case, it just makes more sense to nerf the weapons that are too powerful. Game development takes time.

Another reason is that you're just making the problem worse. People are saying something is too powerful, so you think we should make everything else too powerful as well?

 

And no, people calling for balance don't want all the kills, aren't jealous, aren't bad at the game, that's ad hominem and a strawman so cut it out.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

No I don't like the concept of nerfing things period. Every once in awhile I might be inclined to agree with a nerf but in general I'm not for nerfing. The thing is things in life just like games have different levels. Some things are just THAT much better than others even if they are supposedly in the same class. And if you can afford to go and get yourself that item either through monetary means or through work then why not. Why does your item have to now be nerfed or made less appealing because other people who either don't have it or choose not to use it feel like you shouldn't have it too? If you didn't choose to initiate into Cephalon Suda for example then you didn't get a SGammacor. Live with it. I didn't choose to initiate Cephalon Suda and I never in any ways acquired the SGammacor, but I never once cried for it to be nerfed because if somebody else put in the time or money to obtain it and then by all means enjoy your S#&$. Who the fuk cares if your S#&$ obliterates S#&$ with minimal effort? So all S#&$ should be made to obliterate S#&$ with the same effort? Oh, but that's not what I mean, I want things to be better but just minimally better because that's fair. LIFE, this entirety of your's and mine and his and her mothereffin existence isn't meant to be fair. So stop with the nerf S#&$.

People like to say oh nerf this because it's too powerful, and then when you ask them why they don't use it, they will tell you it's either because they don't have it yet or because they CHOOSE not to use it for whatever reason. But here is the funny part, not only do they CHOOSE not to use it they now want YOU to NOT ENJOY using it too. And if you don't have it in the first place...well tough...there's a lot of S#&$ in life that I don't have and probably will never have that is wayyyyyy better than anything I currently have, but guess what I'll have to learn to live with that.

So the point is, chill with the nerf S#&$.

[StinkyPygmy]

OP doesn't understand that nerfs and buffs are both required as appropriate.

Balance still has a place in a PVE game.

If one (or a small minority) of weapons etc dominates everything and outclasses everything else by miles then something isn't right.

 

Meaning no one will use said content.

Shifting the balancing bar is also not a solution.

 

That being said I can see people bringing up the synoid and after using it a lot prenerf I didn't think it was OP. Could have used maybe a small adjustment ammo consumption wise, but not what it ended up getting.

 

Alas many in this community find moderation a difficult concept. For some reason you're either for nerfs or against them, and being on either end of the extremes on the spectrum is strange, to say the least.

Edited April 20, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[BlueQuail]

LOL 

 

so you didnt do the grind to get one.

 

Figures. 

Too busy doing the entire right side.

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

Balance.

 

Its like the word has attained cult like devotion.

Too busy doing the entire right side.

 

So did I.

 

Then I did the grind for the other side. 

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

SO lets get this straight.

 

In this game people are devoted to the lore.

 

Every aspect is srutinised and studied.

 

Yet we are supposed to uncritically accept the idea of 'balancing' as fitting into the lore of the game.

 

Oh yeah.

 

I can just imagine represntatives of the Grineer, Tenno, Infested and Corpus all sitting round a negotiating table with tea and cucumber sandwiches.

 

Tenno Excalibur speaks first " Right guys and non sexed infested insectoid whateverthehellyouares, we need to discuss the issue of balance with our weapons. No one can have a gun or sharp claws that make them more powerful than anyone else. Its not fair. "

 

Infested represntative speaks first  " SCRWIALIILLOOOONAAHHGAGGGAGAGA "( Interprted as 'Too right guv. It aint fair if the grineer have bigger guns than the corpus. "

 

Tenno Excalibur " So its agreed then, in the name of balance no weapons must be allowed that give any one side an advantage - except for the Grineer bombadiers of course. They can keep their vastly OP bombadier guns that kill Tenno with two shots. Oh yeah and the miter weapons like in Phoenix Intercept Escalation that killed three of us in one hit. You Grineer can keep those guns that are vastly OP. Oh and the infested. You can keep your healers and eximus that kill low ranked Tenno in seconds "

 

Oh yeah, balance.

 

Its just what the Tenno need in a universe filled with enemies that can one shot you. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)thehoocodfather

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

double post. edited. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)thehoocodfather

[MechNexus]

Its just what the Tenno need in a universe filled with enemies that can one shot you. 

Okay stop right there.

The most important thing in a game is one thing:

Is it fun to play?

If the gameplay is cack, congrats, you've failed at step 0.1.

Unfortunately, this means you'll have to make a few logical leaps that break the lore or even common sense to keep the game fun, this is why you don't lose bullets when you reload from a non-depleted magazine.

For example, take the Seraphim from Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance.

They're supposed to be a big powerful interdimensional alien race that has been kicking humanity's arse seven ways sideways for the past two years.

Yet, in actual gameplay, they're no more powerful than anyone else.

Why?

Because if, in gameplay, they lived up to their reputation, they'd be OP as hell and the game would end up into nothing but Seraphim being used, or the Seraphim getting banned from use in community lobbies (Like the AWP and Autosniper in many Counter Strike servers, although for a different reason)

Fun gameplay > Lore.

Proper balance is an important part of maintaining a fun game.

[TheGuyver]

Really.

 

You think that collecting 100,000 syndicate points and all the parts and credits to obtain a pre-nerf synoid was easy ?

 

You think that after all the work those players put in to obtain that weapon, that it should have been over powered ?

 

Did you have one ? 

 

To be honest, getting 100k rep before the changes was menial at best.

[KingTaro]

Some weapons did require nerfing. Synoid was one of them.

Although I'd prefer if they kept the ammo efficiency and reduced its range by twofold instead (even though most people wanted its damage reduced). 

It's a great weapon for melee gameplay. Allows you to quickly get rid of heavy lvl 80+ units. Not to mention the aerial units.

And then there were weapons like Rakta, that desperately needed a buff.

 

In short, a better term would be "balancing".

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

Okay stop right there.

The most important thing in a game is one thing:

Is it fun to play?

If the gameplay is cack, congrats, you've failed at step 0.1.

Unfortunately, this means you'll have to make a few logical leaps that break the lore or even common sense to keep the game fun, this is why you don't lose bullets when you reload from a non-depleted magazine.

For example, take the Seraphim from Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance.

They're supposed to be a big powerful interdimensional alien race that has been kicking humanity's arse seven ways sideways for the past two years.

Yet, in actual gameplay, they're no more powerful than anyone else.

Why?

Because if, in gameplay, they lived up to their reputation, they'd be OP as hell and the game would end up into nothing but Seraphim being used, or the Seraphim getting banned from use in community lobbies (Like the AWP and Autosniper in many Counter Strike servers, although for a different reason)

Fun gameplay > Lore.

Proper balance is an important part of maintaining a fun game.

 

 

So lets get this stright.

 

You think a game is fun to play if every weapon is the exact same as every other weapon in relation to damage ?

 

So we should all drink the same fizzy drink flavour, eat the same type of porridge and wear the same clothes ?

 

Listen to the same music, watch the same TV shows and read the same book ?

 

Oh yeah.

 

Sounds fun. 

 

Not. 

 

So we impose a virtual version of the soviet union on all weapons in video games and define that as fun ? 

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

Some weapons did require nerfing. Synoid was one of them.

Although I'd prefer if they kept the ammo efficiency and reduced its range by twofold instead (even though most people wanted its damage reduced). 

It's a great weapon for melee gameplay. Allows you to quickly get rid of heavy lvl 80+ units. Not to mention the aerial units.

And then there were weapons like Rakta, that desperately needed a buff.

 

In short, a better term would be "balancing".

 

No 

 

Its not balancing. 

 

The correct term would be 'imposing mediocrity and removing excellence'.

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

To be honest, getting 100k rep before the changes was menial at best.

 

Did you do it ?

 

That level of time investment and resource investment was not menial. 

[Syln]

F... balance, i want an augment mod on my opticor that shoot exploding laser rainbows that wipe the map in a single shot.

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

F... balance, i want an augment mod on my opticor that shoot exploding laser rainbows that wipe the map in a single shot.

 

We can but dream.

 

But the Nerf Commies would never let it happen.

[MechNexus]

So we impose a virtual version of the soviet union on all weapons in video games and define that as fun ? 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

I never said any of that.

If anything, my argument is in opposition of that.

Proper balance will allow people to use whatever they want without feeling gimped.

(of that tier, of course - Tiered weapons aint really a bad thing per se, but some weapons were just way out of line, like the synoid gammacor)

Christ, such a blatant strawman just makes me think you're a troll at this point.

Edited April 20, 2015 by MechNexus

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

I never said any of that.

If anything, my argument is in opposition of that.

Proper balance will allow people to use whatever they want without feeling gimped.

(of that tier, of course - Tiered weapons aint really a bad thing per se, but some weapons were just way out of line, like the synoid gammacor)

Christ, such a blatant strawman just makes me think you're a troll at this point.

 

 

Explain to me how an OP synoid affected you in any way ?

 

When was it exactly you felt 'gimped' by an OP synoid being used by another player ?

Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)thehoocodfather

[(PSN)fizzer94]

F... balance, i want an augment mod on my opticor that shoot exploding laser rainbows that wipe the map in a single shot.

Lol. This is the kind of thing OP would support.

I propose we ad a Lato that doesn't 1000 damage per shot, fires at 10 rounds per second, and has a 40 round mag, all base stats.

Who cares if its the only thing people will use, and that all other weapons will be wasted content in comparison? Screw balance! Right, OP?

Actually. Let's make the Lato Prime do that! OP won't mind of he can't have it right?

Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)fizzer94

[MechNexus]

Explain to me how an OP synoid affected you in any way ?

 

When was it exactly you felt 'gimped' by an OP synoid ?

You're not reading what i'm saying, at all.

 

Take it like this - I can use weapon A or weapon B. I really like weapon A, yet Weapon B is far superior, but I don't like weapon B. Said player may feel forced into a weapon they don't like using because they feel gimped otherwise. This is part of the basis for balance in PvE - Letting a player choose to use the kit they want without feeling gimped.