Guys, I Really Hate To Say It, But..... (Trinity Balance Issue)

[LynxAmurie]

>nerf trin

You're insane. Get your fire extinguisher.

[RealPandemonium]

Can people please stop asking for nerfs on things, contrary to what people think, DE do actually read the forums. Limit giving ideas of stuff to nerf.

DE reading the forums is the reason we have this broken mess in there first place.  The posts they read?  "Buff everything!"  "We LOVE powercreep!"

 

Thanks, community.  

[Aaira]

I think you're misunderstanding the point.

 

A ball rolling down a hill would be me saying that smoking one cigarette will lead to smoking more. Cigarettes are addictive, that's a logically sound conclusion.

 

A slippery slope is someone claiming nerfing Trinity will lead to nerfing Ember, almost universally regarded as the weakest frame in the game. Numbers are numbers, that is not a logically sound conclusion.

"everything is going to get nerfed" is a hyperbole.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Aaira

[Batwing]

therewego, i removed the subjective opinions and untrue things from your Post. and that was all that was left.

yes, Well of Life is very arse. suspending Synthesis Targets and using with Energy Vampire to smite singular Enemies is nowhere near enough to justify the Ability as useful.

actually.... *mumbles something about that possibly changing*

i do not understand this sort of strawman reasoning.

if Energy Vampire doesn't end instantly, whatever, just shoot the Enemy in the face, and it dies. cast it again now.

the only way having as little Duration as possible could even remotely be a necessary facet to have would be AFKfarming. otherwise Players can simply Kill the Enemy if they want Energy right away.

Trinity is extremely powerful, and always has been. for better or for worse.

So then you do not need high level and rare mods to run a good ev build to have infinite enrgy like op says ?

 

You can't die in high level missions from being stuck in a cast animation from the 3 bombards shooting at you ?

 

There's just trinities in every pub game and mission that give everyone max energy all the time and there's never 1 moment they run out ?

 

You can cast it more than once ?

 

It actually does have infinite range like blessing and you don't need to be anywhere near the target to get the energy ?

 

Unless I missed an update please correct my claims then like you did with the possible visable energy status before dismissing them as opinions and untrue.

 

What I was trying to get at was that just because trinity has the ability to give constant energy doesn't mean people actually do that. Who wants to go into a game (not a farm session i thought we learned nerfing frames due to people extremely efficient at farming was a bad idea) as trinity and spam EV constantly stoping to cast it and having to shoot the enemy immidiatly so they can recast it and keep everyones energy maxed.

 

What I see most of the time is they cast it when people request or need some for blessing I don't actually see many EV spamming trinities.

 

Atleast we agree on the well of life skill really would take anything else. Maybe a teleport skill to help get to downed teammate faster but that may be too good for a first skill. Or maybe a skill to increase the bleedout timer.

 

Also like most said we get rid of EV then people just build stacks and stacks of Energy restores.

[AsahiOka]

[ograzzt]

Yesterday someone complained about her blessing, now it's energy vampire. What's next? "WoL is too OP, nerf it now!"?

[LordChronos]

Great idea. Let's start nerfing everything so people could complain some more. Let's make ability number 1 have a 30 second cool down and number 2 have a 1 minute cool down, number 3 have a 2 minute cooldown and number 4 we'll give it a 3 minute cooldown. That should stop ALL the ability spam, all the op-ness and it will solve ALL the problems!!!

That's how it is. Make it so there are less energy drops on the map, like 90% less. More health globes.

ASAP!

[Revel72]

Seriously what do you have against the sea food frame?

 

Ahem! Somebody bring my BON Hammer. (= Brain Online Now) Seriously now. Trinity is already okay as what she is. If you want trinity to be nerfed. I require Rhino's iron skin cost 1000 energy and Rhino stomp require 2000 energy. There now I can your Rhino's being balanced.

 

Seriously. Have you even looked at her change history? She has twice more nerfs than Excalibur and Rhino combined. So how about go toss yourself in a lake what has some ice on it?

[ZirilanOfTheClaw]

my god people do you guys only play lvl 40 and below?

 

Apollodorus is the place I go 90% of my time. I love it, it's funny and nice to play long times solo without stress.

 

Any problem with this?

 

Btw, nerf Trinity? Really? Let's take all Trinity users with EV focused build and ask what they think. Not the people that know the skill, the people that really uses Trinity that way. That's the most important feedback. 

[faustias]

It actually does have infinite range like blessing and you don't need to be anywhere near the target to get the energy ?

 

Unless I missed an update please correct my claims then like you did with the possible visable energy status before dismissing them as opinions and untrue.

EV pulse has range.

[Ironlixivium]

wait so you want to nerf the nerf so the nerf that was placed in some time ago is nerfed? i just want my 100% damage reduction back

That was horribly op. all her abilities atm are best when not spammed, which is a good thing for a frame that can generate energy in large amounts. 100% dmg resist was op and would be op, I shouldn't have to explain why.

 

I also have to say No. Also people need to understand when we say something is too OP or is sooooo much "better" than everything else we are only referring to the players who A) have that frame, B) who has the right mods for that build, C) has the capabilities to get those mods, D) has chosen to make that particular build. There are a lot and I mean A LOT of players (especially newer players and players who simply haven't gotten around to getting what they need) who don't have that frame or that build for that frame. So whenever somebody says nerf because something is too OP you are literally only talking about a CERTAIN group of players. But not everyone plays it like that (whether it's by choice or happenstance).

Also you just informed us that you yourself play Trinity A LOT so you noticed this issue. There you have it, not everybody plays trinity a lot and not everybody runs into whatever "issues" you have with her. Please don't ask for her to be nerfed any further.

Cheers.

Excellent explanation. 

 

 

Lol.

 

Trinity balanced?

 

Explain why she's outshining all the other support frame then ?She literally turn a mission "hard" to a "easy lol" mission.I play trinitty.I've played her since a long time i even have her arcane aura helmet from 2 years ago.And let me tell you:she's so damn strong with all the survivability she gives,that ANY runs can be done easily without any risks just with her.She is too strong,all you need in your squad for raid OR endless mission to come with her is CC.Many frames has CC ,but she's the ONLY ONE to give free energy,Damage reduction,instant healing and bring huge tankyness for herself.

 

I aslo can't believe how people can say "she requires attention" for real ?Press 4 get 99% damage reduction,does damage repeat is hard ?Banshee requires attention,Oberon requires attention,Zephyr requires attention etc...not trinity.She's easy as long as the person playing her understand SHE IS a support and should be played like a support.Damn ,it's like saying "Loki is hard because he's squischy" for real guys ?

 

I really wish she would get at least a more activ gameplay.Because having such HUGE healing and protection who requires no skills is boring as hell.

Please. I usually don't say anything like this, but please. stfu right now. Just because you think she's easy doesn't mean she's easy for everyone, if you think she's too easy then play someone else. Valkyr is too easy with the correct mods, so I stopped playing her. Don't ask for a nerf just because you're good with someone cause it DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE IS.

 

Pretty sure most frames don't go full eff anyways, either because of blind rage or because they can't be arsed to use 2 mod slots for it and would rather just pop an energy restore if, for whatever reason, they can't go grab the blue balls.

I do ^_^ with the exception of mirage and trinity. r8 primed cont, r5 narrow, maxed stretch, r4 streamline, r4 fleeting. it gives the max +75% eff with +49% duration and +9% range.

[BowboyBeemboop]

Believe me, once you've figured out how to combo Trinity's abilities, nerfing EV or Blessing would be the last thing to come to your mind.

[Riot_Inducer]

So you people actually think that having infinite energy, by any means, is balanced?

No, however the topic is specifically about Trinity's EV, which is arguably the most balanced method of achieving constant energy, since it requires utilizing a specific frame that really cannot gain a massive advantage from it's infinite energy, sure you can maintain link and be a good tank but blessing simply doesn't work with spamming. Meanwhile any frame can simply drop an energy restore and gain this infinite energy advantage and use the energy to CC or nuke the whole tile.

[Thaumatos]

Please. I usually don't say anything like this, but please. stfu right now. Just because you think she's easy doesn't mean she's easy for everyone, if you think she's too easy then play someone else. Valkyr is too easy with the correct mods, so I stopped playing her. Don't ask for a nerf just because you're good with someone cause it DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE IS.

I could say the same thing in reverse: Just because you're awful at playing the game doesn't mean things are balanced.

 

I'm not going to argue either way about Trinity, but this kind of argument is the most annoying fallacy when it comes to game balance in the history of online gaming.  Period.

 

Game balance is objective not subjective.  How you play as an individual has no bearing on what can and cannot be done in-game.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Aaira]

Why aren't people posing vids to back up their claims?

Not doubting anyone, but it'd be nice to literally see what people claim.

 

Also that way we can stop wasting keyboard durability on useless 4000 words long theorycraft essays nobody likes to read.

[Thaumatos]

Why aren't people posing vids to back up their claims?

Not doubting anyone, but it'd be nice to literally see what people claim.

 

Also that way we can stop wasting keyboard durability on useless 4000 words long theorycraft essays nobody likes to read.

My keyboard durability is at 100%.

 

I always repair it after going on a forum run and I have enough gold to do so every night.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSI1QsIo8g

 

This!

Cry for nerfs that need them and leave trinity alone, she has already been nerfed enough and should be left alone. If EV had no range limitation I could see a nerf for that, but as it stands "leave trinity alone!"

[LordChronos]

Can someone make an Oprah meme "Nerfs for everyone!"?

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

^ 100 +

[taiiat]

So then you do not need high level and rare mods to run a good ev build to have infinite enrgy like op says ?

You can't die in high level missions from being stuck in a cast animation from the 3 bombards shooting at you ?

There's just trinities in every pub game and mission that give everyone max energy all the time?

You can cast it more than once ?

It actually does have infinite range like blessing and you don't need to be anywhere near the target to get the energy ?

Unless I missed an update please correct my claims then like you did with the possible visable energy status before dismissing them as opinions and untrue.

- needing Mods to use something is irrelevant because everyone has access to the same Mods. investment is not an excuse.

- anybody can get CC chained to death. this is not exclusive to Trinity. therefore it is irrelevant. it's going to usually be much more difficult for Trinity to be CC chained though, since you're immune to almost all forms of CC basically all the time.

- ofcourse not. but there isn't a super huge over abundance of any Warframe in random Matches. this again, is irrelevant strawman.

- yes, it can be cast on the same Target more than once. with maximum Power Strength (2.84x), Energy Vampire will deal 71% of an Enemies' Health in Damage. (however if the Percentage per Tick is recalculated each time, then it would be possible for it to Kill in one cast - however i'm moderately certain this is not the case)

- not having Infinite Range is not some sort of excuse. it has a very good Range to start with, tied with other Abilities such as Stomp, Radial Javelin, Turbulence, Tornado, Et Cetera.

- we may be receiving a HUD Element for Energy visibility. we don't have it yet, i was (apparently poorly) hinting that we may have one in the near future.

again, Trinity is not really the problem here. well, she isn't causing the problem. she's just a part of it.

[CryvernX]

i say yes to the nerf

[Aaira]

 it would be possible for it to Kill in one cast

1) Cast well of life, enemy's HP is multiplicated by a lot

2) Wait for most of well's duration

3) Cast EV on the enemy

4) EV calculates its damage on the bloated health of the enemy

5) well of life ends, the enemy's max hp goes back to normal

6) last tick of EV kicks in, enemy dies

 

I call it the "might as well just shoot the guy" technique.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Aaira

[taiiat]

Well of Life + Energy Vampire

yes... i'm very well aware.

the statement made though, was that you "can't cast it more than once on an Enemy".

you very much so can.

[Sword_Symphony]

No. No Trinity nerf necessary. 
 

[climatiseur]

I think the diminishing effectiveness system might be the step to solve it, as spamming abilities would have decreasing effects. That not only means gaining more energy has reduced effects, but also her 2nd might become limited in long runs.

However, energy pad is still a thing. They might want to tweak it as well.