The Dual Sword Stances Are Of Questionable Value

[RoosterTheRed]

Greetings and salutations, warrior-deities of the Origin system. I am an old melee fan, and I have almost always used the melee weapons of Warframe almost exclusively. And after playing the game for a couple of years, I have a few suggestions regarding said melee weapons. Or, rather, suggestions on the stances of dual swords. 

 

 

I'll be frank. The stances suck. Swirling Tiger and Crossing Snakes are meh. They're old, outdated, and to be honest, clumsy. Many of the combos are too easy to activate, and when you do activate them, you're annoyed because they are worse than the default combo. The dual swords are awesome, don't get me wrong. Dex Dakra, Dual Zoren, Dual Ichor, etc. are all great weapons, stat-wise and appearance-wise. But the stances just rub me the wrong way. 

 

We need something more graceful, and more deadly. We need wide, horizontal sweeps. Quick above and below slashes. 

 

 

And while we are on the subject of the .gif above, how about a backwards grip on one of the swords for one of the stances, eh? 

 

 

The current stances are, as I mentioned, clumsy. 

 

 

^ The first combo of Crossing Snakes. Each sword stabs and slashes in turn. Where's the symbiosis? Where's the "teamwork" so to speak between the swords? I know it's a default combo, but really. 

 

 

^ Swirling Tiger's default combo. Not as bad, I suppose, but still slow and clumsy. 

 

 

My biggest complaint with these two stances is the fact that both weapons don't ever really swing at once, and that the combos fling me all over the room. I'll be right in someone's face, cutting them to ribbons, accidentally hit a combo, and literally fly away, like a demented Mary Poppins. 

 

 

 

^ Now THIS is a beautiful stance. I apologize for the channeling, this is the only .gif I could find of this stance that I liked. This is Tempo Royale. Sweeping, graceful, deadly. Good time switching between strikes, so that each strike blends into the other. And while this stance also has combos that launch you across the room (what stance doesn't?) the launch is short, and the long range on Galatine assures you'll still get your man. Why not a stance like this, but for dual swords? 

 

I have always said that when someone complains about an issue without proposing a solution, that the individual in question is whining. So, I propose sweeping, graceful stances for dual swords that allow each individual sword to work better with the other. Or one stance could be graceful, and the other would be more about hacking something to bits. I searched for a .gif of what I have in mind, but could not find one. 

 

 

TL;DR: I think that the stances on dual swords make them difficult to enjoy. The weapons themselves are fantastic, but the stances leave something to be desired. While I have the utmost respect for DE and their hard work, this is one thing that has always bugged me. 

[(PSN)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT]

I know this feeling. There are a lot of good weapons in the Dual Sword category (because there's too many Dual Swords) but the stances make me never play them. I look in my arsenal for a melee to use and skip over the Dual Swords because although they're good, the stances are clumsy and boring.

[(PSN)Pharen]

I know people are gonna hate me for this but the initial strike of tempo royale is just far too quick for what it should be, there's no way even a Tenno could accelerate a blade that heavy to that speed in an instant. It also makes the other two class mods irrelevant due to this feature.

[Deidaku]

Agreed

 

It's kind of why I don't like using my dex dakra

 

The stances look weird

[Dragon_AV]

Don't forget the Nami Skyla. I cringed every time my frame made a slashing move with the dagger which was clearly made for stabbing.

[Hawkeifun]

they had so much hard work for the dual sword stances but they dont feel like dual sword with that kind of stance.

[087SE-Miykhail]

 Thats why i only use quick melee to slash slash slash slash slash, whem i change to melee mode, it actually slows you down.

Using combos are not suposed to be better and faster and stronger, making you not only use the quick melee because its faster and dont have annoy animations ?

Stances need to good in a way they force you to change to melee mode to do the work whem you need an heavy melee strikes or infested like the tempo royale stance does, or even the whirlwind combo on the other heavy weapom stance and the crushing ruin on jat kittag spim to win.

They need more dmg multpliers on using stance combos, and more fluid moves.

[Blakrana]

You do need to bear in mind that, much as the stances are 'dual sword' there are as many weapons that are asymmetrical as they are 'equal length' in the weapon category. By rights, about half of them are Sword + Dagger, making it rather impractical to consider them in terms of being in the same 'motion'.

 

Perhaps they can be touched up a bit. Sure. But considering the nature of the weapons employed, and the sizes involved, on average, you're dealing with two weapons of unequal lengths, weight and function. Bonus points in that the Dagger, classically the off hand weapon in these pairings, is held in the Right hand. Refreshing but surprising, as the Main Gauche is literally named for being used in the left hand.

 

If they had it so it was more akin to being viewed like a japanese 'Daisho' pairing, functional long sword with short sword (See Niten Ichi-Ryu, the sword style invented by Miyamoto Musashi), I could see where you're coming from. However, arguably a lot of the 'dual sword' stances are drawing upon more western fencing styles to determine their form.

 

It should also be worth bearing in mind that the stances are roughly from when they were originally made. Tempo Royale is a demonstration of what they've learned since update 13. It is, whilst arguably fair to critique, important to point out that they're from different points in the experience of sorting the animations. Things have come a long way.

 

Also, it is amusing to note that your request for a 'graceful' combo compared to something more 'hacking' is actually Swiring Tiger and Crossing Snakes in a nutshell. A bit of animation smoothing, but otherwise, they function perfectly well in my experience, though I prefer Swirling Tiger due to its synergy with the Dual Heat Swords.

 

End of the day, each their own.

[AutoPhox]

Slightly off topic - Kama uses machete stance. Dual kama uses dual sword stance. I found that perplexing. Granted, there isnt really a better fit, but maybe thats the problem. Too many dual weapons fall under the same stance mods, when in reality, these weapons could have very different martial techniques.

[RoosterTheRed]

Maybe they should differentiate between dual swords and sword/dagger weapon types. Nami Skyla isn't the same kind of weapon as Dex Dakra. 

[Bobtm]

While I like both Crossing Snakes (the slow stance) and Swirling Tiger (the fast stance) for dual swords and don't particularly agree with the "elegance" side of what you're saying, more stances is always good so long as each has a reason to be.

 

Having a more showy/flashy/intricate stance would be pretty awesome and I'd welcome it.

 

As an aside, like others have said the "dual swords" grip type is sort of a catch-all at this point in time.  Any dual weapon aside the claws and sword & board just gets put here and that sort of makes the whole grip type feel odd.  Though trying to decide which gets what and what loses what would be odd.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Bobtm

[087SE-Miykhail]

 Dual Ichors are two daggers, or short swords. Using swirling tiger cross spining combo dont have any physics sense. It was made to long swords spins like two fans.

[Dragon_AV]

Bump to get over the Tonkor madness

[Epicagemo]

I don't see an issue, I've appreciated the value of certain combos. You've only mentioned the base combos in the main passage. Crossing snakes is not in my taste so I won't argue for that. However swirling tiger's E E pause E, EEE is pretty good. Feels like a combo from vindictus Vella combination of attacks. (If you don't know the reference ignore that and move on). Anyways, the third combo does wonders for racking up the combo counter, followed by a few cleaves... Similar damage output to cleaving whirlwind's spinning.

Silly reason for bump tho lol

Edited April 27, 2015 by Epicagemo

[TheBrsrkr]

Neither of the Dual Sword stances actually do their weapons any Justice. Not only do obth stances need to be reworked, we need to make a seperate stance for Dual HAtchets or something. The Dual Zoren, Ichor, Razas and Kama aren not dual swords, and should not work as such.

[Hueminator]

I think Crossing Snakes is not that good for its speed and animation.  Swirling Tiger EE Hold E combo is funky though, especially when you hold crouch and use the whole combo while moving.

 

I love Zoren in Swirling Tiger, so I'll vote no for separate stance.  A third stance for Dual sword that feature more slash or whatever would be nice though (but DE should focus on adding combo to older stances first)

Edited April 27, 2015 by Hueminator

[JayGideon1]

I know people are gonna hate me for this but the initial strike of tempo royale is just far too quick for what it should be, there's no way even a Tenno could accelerate a blade that heavy to that speed in an instant. It also makes the other two class mods irrelevant due to this feature.

i wouldnt say cleaving whirlwind is irrelevant in anyway, the spin combo can still do tons of damage. i will admit that rending crane is a bit underwhelming over all. and you realize Tenno can deflect bullets with a war axe right? saying "Impossible" to something in this game doesnt really work. 

 

and to the OP i would love some better stances for dual swords, tempo royal, blind justice tranquil cleave are a few good ones. there needs to be a dual sword equivalent 

[(PSN)Pharen]

i wouldnt say cleaving whirlwind is irrelevant in anyway, the spin combo can still do tons of damage. i will admit that rending crane is a bit underwhelming over all. and you realize Tenno can deflect bullets with a war axe right? saying "Impossible" to something in this game doesnt really work. 

 

and to the OP i would love some better stances for dual swords, tempo royal, blind justice tranquil cleave are a few good ones. there needs to be a dual sword equivalent 

It's not to do with the stance being overpowered, it's more to do with the fact its initial strike is near 3x faster than the other 2 mods, and that is the one area where heavy blades fall short. They are supposed to be heavy and limited by speed, but deal huge damage. This mod is basically a must especially when fighting faster enemies where the other two mods would usually miss the target due to the inital strike speed.

[Grom-84]

The existence of a dual swords is questionable, because they dont have any advantages over single swords, and their stances arn't that great to do something with it.

[(PSN)MonkeysUnkle1]

I don't see an issue, I've appreciated the value of certain combos. You've only mentioned the base combos in the main passage. Crossing snakes is not in my taste so I won't argue for that. However swirling tiger's E E pause E, EEE is pretty good. Feels like a combo from vindictus Vella combination of attacks. (If you don't know the reference ignore that and move on). Anyways, the third combo does wonders for racking up the combo counter, followed by a few cleaves... Similar damage output to cleaving whirlwind's spinning.

Silly reason for bump tho lol

The problem is it's the only combo worth using.

 

You'd think with dual kama prime out, they might actually take a look at back at these stances. Nope, this is DE. Dammit, just stop coming out with new weapon categories for an update or two and start reworking old stances. This game went a long time without adding new weapon types, and by changing the stances around, you essentially get the same effect for less work. I hate that they seem to have fallen into a habit of making new categories with a single instance of the weapon. We have tons of longswords, and only two (functionally one) nikanas. Nikana has three stances, any one of which has almost as many combos as both longsword stances put together. Wat?

[RealPandemonium]

The same can be said of most stances.

[PhillipJokar]

>Tempo Royale

>Beautiful

 

Is this a joke?

 

TR looks like a Star Wars kid TRYING to have the sword slide out of his grip and go flying into the air.

 

Northern Coil, Winding Claws and Dancing Hunter all look good.

[Nazrethim]

Another thing that almost ALL stances need: gap closer combo (think of Blind Justice's Guiding Light)

[crackbeard]

100 percent agree i love the dual weapons but i never end up using them for that long because they have the worst stances.

[Volinus7]

Swirling Tiger is the best direct damage stance its enemy controlling capability is top notch no rival.

If you do it correctly enemy wont have a chance to fire even a single shot while in your melee range.

Hit per second or speed is very good too.

Only thing it lacks is counterattack finisher prompt combo.

Swirling Tiger 9.5/10

Crossing snake is meh. Timing is harder. Almost no momentum except last hit on all combo.

There is a combo that use forward direction button that is further limit the use and momentum of other combos.

Damage is not that good only one hit in one combo has high multiplier. Speed is mediocre.

Totally sucks and shouldn't be a rare stance.

Crossing Snake 1/10