Has The Tonkor Rendered Ogris And Penta Obsolete?(No Nerfs Plz)

[420degreequicksopeswag]

I AM NOT ASKING FOR A TONKOR NERF, I AM ASKING FOR A BUFF TO THE OGRIS AND PENTA.

Torid is fine.

 

 

Tonkor:

 

http://goo.gl/DrU3gn

 

 

Ogris:

 

http://goo.gl/7Qzqtw

 

Penta:

 

http://goo.gl/yJ90hU

 

 

-Tonkor has double the spare ammo of ogris and penta

-Tonkor has MR of 5, Ogris and penta are at 6

-Tonkor will scratch you if you are caught in the blast radius and can be used to rocket jump. Ogris and penta will instantly kill you if they have been modded.

-Ogris must be charged, and it is not a good idea to use heavy caliber

-Tonkor comes with grenade arc indicator

-Tonkor grenades explode on contact, penta grenades will bounce. The ridiculous bouncing of penta grenades makes trap laying hard to do

-Penta must manually detonate

-Ogris is much more expensive to build. It takes clan research, 5 detonite injectors, 5000 salvage, a forma, and 600 alloy plates

-Damage wise, tonkor can reach 46466.87 damage in one shot if it crits, ogris can reach 24428, even with heavy caliber, and penta can reach 17569, with heavy caliber. Somehow if you can get the target in the blast radius of all 5 bombs, you can hit 87845.

-Penta can zoom only on the first shot

 

 

 

BUFF THE PENTA AND OGRIS.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Another thing, how about a loch n load skin for the tonkor.(from tf2)

[R34LM]

Penta has more control over its grenades and the Ogris doesn't have an arc. Each has their own strengths and weakness. If you are talking pure damage (which most people look at first) then yes it outclasses them.

[fatpig84]

The ammo restriction and self damage really hurts the Ogris and Penta in a non static game though.

Static wise they are great, which the Tonkor can do as well.

[Vance.Stubbs]

Penta and Ogirs are better defensive weapon, while Tonkor is good on the offensive.

[shut]

Another thing, how about a loch n load skin for the tonkor.(from tf2)

 

The funny part about this is that the loch 'n' load skin would work better for the Tonkor than the actual loch 'n' load since its clip size is actually 2.

 

OT:

I think that Ogris and Penta can do with reduced self-damage. Not to the point that they only tickle you like the Tonkor does, but enough to cause a huge amount of pain to the player without instagibbing them. (They still need to punish poor use on the player's part, but instakilling them for being 9.9999m away from the explosion is a bit harsh. At least leave them with 1 health or something.)

Other than that, they're fine. Tonkor hits like a truck, but the fact that it spends most of its gameplay time reloading is more than enough compensation. Frankly, with that magazine and reload time, the Tonkor would be mastery fodder if it didn't hit like a truck.

Edited April 26, 2015 by SortaRandom

[faustias]

>penta must be manually detonate

that's an option, not a con if it's implied being bad.

 

and yes, Tonkor's 2-ammo clip and reload makes up as its weakness.

besides, I wish it doesn't bounce, and DE kinda lied about "explodes on contact" without saying you have to hit "enemies only", not anything.

while I'm at it, its grenade cannot be manually detonate as it bounce which is horrible because of its hitbox, unlike Pentanades which you can let it bounce then detonate if your aim was off.

Edited April 26, 2015 by faustias

[BlazeBigBang]

Actually, the manual detonation of the Penta is what made me fall in love with it. I had already tried the Ogris and didn't like it at all, then switched to the Penta and being able to choose when detonating it made me love it. I still have to craft the Tonkor, tho.

[osuman]

No buffs necessary, Nerf Tonkor instead!

[MechaGent]

No buffs necessary, Nerf Tonkor instead!

 

[420degreequicksopeswag]

No buffs necessary, Nerf Tonkor instead!

Umm

 

NO. The tonkor is balanced as a launcher, i'm saying the penta and ogris need a boost.

 

The tonkor DOES have its flaws.

-Low accuracy

-2 shot magazine

-Can be unreliable at times because point strike will not take crit chance up to 100%

-Can push teammates

-

 

Actually, the manual detonation of the Penta is what made me fall in love with it. I had already tried the Ogris and didn't like it at all, then switched to the Penta and being able to choose when detonating it made me love it. I still have to craft the Tonkor, tho.

Sure, the manual detonation is nice. Except, you can't aim down sights after firing the first shot.

The grenades also bounce like crazy. I wanted to set traps.

[ArbitUHM]

Can't you do airbursts with the Penta to consistently get headshots? It's been a while since I took it for a spin.

 

IMO the Penta and Ogris just need some tweaks. The Tonkor is a fun weapon for many reasons, but what primarily makes it fun is the lack of self damage. Seriously, the way the Ogris' rockets can be shot down and the crazy way Penta nades bounce around, it is only a matter time before I kill myself. The tactical benefits and tradeoffs between the Tonkor, Ogris, and Penta just don't mean much when the latter two are too goddamn dangerous to use, especially in solo mode.

 

Just reduce the amount of self damage they do and they're most of the way balanced.

 

edit: I could get behind some physics tweaks for the Penta, too. Less bounce and more forward momentum. I hate that I have to arc my shots so much that I have to look at the ceiling to hit something more than 50 ft away. I've always called it a brick launcher, not just because the projectiles are strangely rectangular, but because the grenades practically fall out of the barrel.

Edited April 26, 2015 by ArbitUHM

[BluelitHalo]

After playing around with my 6-forma Tonkor, I can conclude that this thing is balanced.  If you miss with this thing, you're punished in the sense that your grenades will likely bounce somewhere and linger for a long time until detonation, and that you enter reloading phase pretty quickly with the 2-round magazine.  

It's easy to miss unless you're very skilled at aiming and leading, and even then your grenades may fly into unintended places if you're using a Heavy Caliber to boost the damage.  Therefore, you need to sacrifice much of the theoretical burst/sustained DPS in order to shoot careful and calculated shots at a steady pace.  Basically, you can't sweep this thing around like the Synoid Gammacor and expect to get loads of kills.  THAT is the balancing factor that makes it not overpowered.

I'm not afraid to push for nerfs, and I was initially skeptical as to whether this thing was nerf-worthy or not, but the Tonkor is basically the Launcher version of the Kohm.  Insane damage output in theory, but with many catches that keep it in check in practice. If you want much more reliability, consistency, and ease of use with your Launchers, go with the Penta or Ogris (however, I do think that the Penta and Ogris need max ammo buffs).  

Edited April 26, 2015 by Sonitorum

[Noble_Cactus]

Can't you do airbursts with the Penta to consistently get headshots? It's been a while since I took it for a spin.

 

IMO the Penta and Ogris just need some tweaks. The Tonkor is a fun weapon for many reasons, but what primarily makes it fun is the lack of self damage. Seriously, the way the Ogris' rockets can be shot down and the crazy way Penta nades bounce around, it is only a matter time before I kill myself. The tactical benefits and tradeoffs between the Tonkor, Ogris, and Penta just don't mean much when the latter two are too goddamn dangerous to use, especially in solo mode.

 

Just reduce the amount of self damage they do and they're most of the way balanced.

 

edit: I could get behind some physics tweaks for the Penta, too. Less bounce and more forward momentum. I hate that I have to arc my shots so much that I have to look at the ceiling to hit something more than 50 ft away. I've always called it a brick launcher, not just because the projectiles are strangely rectangular, but because the grenades practically fall out of the barrel.

Yes, you can. Host a game and detonate a Penta nade above their head. It'll make the crunch sound and big numbers will appear.

[inappropriatename5818]

I get what you mean, but really you only have 3 arguments of why Penta and Ogris "need a buff". Only valid arguments you gave are more spare ammo, grenades don't instakill you and more damage.   

 

The rest of the stuff you just put there just to make the list bigger to try and make it seem like it's SOOO  much better when in reality the only thing better than the penta is damage.   

 

Points you made that don't matter:   

 

-MR requirement  

-Ogris having to be charged  

-Arc indicator   

-Penta zooming only on the first shot    

-Build requirements

 

These were the ones that don't really matter, because if we nitpicked like this all weapons would be the same, but here's the so called downside of penta compared to tonkor you mention "Tonkor grenades explode on contact, penta grenades will bounce. The ridiculous bouncing of penta grenades makes trap laying hard to do"   

 

This as far as I see it is not a downside of penta, it's more of a downside for Tonkor, because being able to manually detonate means you have way more control, which lets you do several things, the ones I think are worth mentioning is 1hitting nulifiers and being able to pull off easy headshots, just shoot above them and detonate.     

 

 

I get what you're trying to point out here, but you're trying too hard, you could just say Tonkor has more ammo and better damage and leave all the useless facts out.   

 

Maybe Penta and Ogris could use a buff, but then again, what's easier to do, buff 2 launchers or nerf 1? All the whining will just get Tonkor nerf and then we're stuck with 3 garbage launchers and machineguns continue to dominate the arsenals.     

 

 

[inappropriatename5818]

No buffs necessary, Nerf Tonkor instead!

 

 

We finally get a decent launcher that is worth using over generic machineguns and then there's salty people that just want to see all weapons nerfed.   

 

Only thing we maybe need is to remove self damage on Ogris and Penta, then we're left with 3 good launchers that each have their strenghts and weaknesses.   

 

Penta- High control low damage

Tonkor- Low control high damage  

Ogris - Medium damage, medium control   

 

We don't need to nerf or buff anything, at that point we might as well copy and paste all weapons to be exactly the same.

[Prof_Blocks_007]

Ogris has much longer range, and is much more reliable and predictable. It can also one-shot Nullifiers, if you know where to shoot.

[Paradoxbomb]

I think mechanically the Penta is fine. Manual detonation is actually nice to have since one can easily miss a direct hit with the Tonkor, meaning the grenade will roll off a few miles and kill nothing. Ogris is definitely very cumbersome by comparison (long charge time and a sluggish reload) but it does have the advantage of range and exploding on contact. They also heavily reduced the self-damage from it, so it's a bit easier to not commit suicide with it.

 

Tonkor's damage and explosion radius definitely put the other launchers to shame though.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

I get what you mean, but really you only have 3 arguments of why Penta and Ogris "need a buff". Only valid arguments you gave are more spare ammo, grenades don't instakill you and more damage.   

 

The rest of the stuff you just put there just to make the list bigger to try and make it seem like it's SOOO  much better when in reality the only thing better than the penta is damage.   

 

Points you made that don't matter:   

 

-MR requirement  

-Ogris having to be charged  

-Arc indicator   

-Penta zooming only on the first shot    

-Build requirements

 

 

 leave all the useless facts out.   

 

Please explain why these do not matter.

[WildCamel666]

Well for MR it makes sense, since you have to be careful to not kill yourself, while you won't with the Tonkor.

 

Otherwise, for people who are asking for Tonkor's nerf (not the OP but in the thread), have you even tested it before ? Just do if you didn't. It's a very nice weapon, but it's not the most overpowered thing in the game.

And if you want a nerf because you don't have it and/or because people troll you with it, it's just selfish, because in the next few days we won't see as much people playing with it, because the weapon will not longer be that new anymore.

 

Also, the biggest draw about the weapon in comparison to the other launchers is the fact that the accuracy is a bit inaccurate, you have to aim approximately and get used to the weapon, because you will miss many shots when you first try it, and if you don't directly hit someone, well you don't do any damage, you have to be way more accurate.

 

That's why i think the weapon is overall balanced, and having the penta, the angstrum and the tonkor, i'll keep them all because they all feel different using them, and i love all of them (even tho i have to admit i prefer the Tonkor because of the fun jumping feature, the very blast radius and the fact it's almost impossible to blow yourself up).

 

I don't think any changes are to be made to any weapons here (don't know about the ogris tho because i don't have it).

 

Edit for the OP :

-The grenade arc indicator is very approximate and hard to see in many places because it's white and right now you can't recolor it.

-Penta grenades bouncing and detonating manually are features of the weapons and why many people love it, you don't often blow yourself up if you're careful with it and it's way more predictable because the wep is somewhat accurate.

(And you likely won't kill yourself while missing if you're not dumb)

 

They all have flaws and advantages, again the only launcher i don't know if it's okay or not is the ogris because i don't have it, but for the others they're all fine to me.

 

Also if you know Mogamu he still prefer the Penta over the Tonkor, ask yourself why.

Edited April 27, 2015 by WildCamel666

[Caliocerion]

Tonkor is pretty hard to use since the high arc, low projectile velocity and weird bounce physics makes it very difficult to hit enemies whereas the penta only needs to land in the general direction of the enemy to score a hit. Overall, I feel like the penta is more flexible and easier to use.

[fatpig84]

Give all launchers 40 ammo and reduce self damage first as a start.

Yes that includes angstrum and castanas.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Give all launchers 40 ammo and reduce self damage first as a start.

Yes that includes angstrum and castanas.

Good enough.

 

Lets get this added at least.

[shut]

Give all launchers 40 ammo and reduce self damage first as a start.

Yes that includes angstrum and castanas.

 

I can agree with a boost to ammo, but the self-damage thing feels a bit iffy. Considering how ridiculously powerful the weapons are, self-damage is pretty much their only real downside at the moment (Penta and Ogris, anyway).

If the self-damage has to be lowered, I wouldn't bring it to nearly the Tonkor's "self-tickle" level. Getting hit with your own blasts should still be extremely painful, just not "instagib yourself for having the tip of your pinkie just barely in contact with the blast radius" painful. Letting yourself get hit should easily wipe out all of your shields and a good chunk of health, maybe leaving 1HP for less tanky frames if they were at full health before the hit.

 

Maybe introduce a powerful self-damage reduction mod after that or something.

Edited April 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[fatpig84]

I can agree with a boost to ammo, but the self-damage thing feels a bit iffy. Considering how ridiculously powerful the weapons are, self-damage is pretty much their only real downside at the moment (Penta and Ogris, anyway).

If the self-damage has to be lowered, I wouldn't bring it to nearly the Tonkor's "self-tickle" level. Getting hit with your own blasts should still be extremely painful, just not "instagib yourself for having the tip of your pinkie just barely in contact with the blast radius" painful. Letting yourself get hit should easily wipe out all of your shields and a good chunk of health, maybe leaving 1HP for less tanky frames if they were at full health before the hit.

 

Maybe introduce a powerful self-damage reduction mod after that or something.

 

Penta deals like 1/3 the damage of the Tonkor and has a hard cap of how many grenades you can have out.

Tonkor has none of those drawbacks except for the non manual detonation.

 

That is kinda balanced out.

 

And Ogris while powerful, is still too clunky to use due to the charge mechanism for most run and gun gameplay.