Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[MichelPostma]

Awesome everyone is being moved to one thread for DE to not listen to. As I have already made my statements in another tab, id recommend anyone of you whos interested to go and check over there.

Btw I am as much in favor of these changes as the EU is in favor of the illegal immigrants

[Spindle99]

McDonald's head office, the boardroom.

Chairma : gentlemen, ladies, I have called this emergency meeting because I have noticed something seriously wrong with our menu.

Puzzled looks and muttering all round.

Vice chairman: in what way sir? It seems fairly diverse, with most bases covered, something for everyone?

Chairman: that's the problem, it's too diverse.

More puzzled looks

Vice chairman: too diverse sir?

Chairman: yes I'm worried that when a new first time customer walks into a store they wlll be overwhelmed.

Vice chairman: well research shows that people like choice and our wide selection is generly regarded as an advantage over our competitors. I suppose we could get the art guys to tweak the menus a bit and train the staff to point newcomers in the right direction.

Chairman: you are not thinking drasticly enough.

Vice chairman: I'm not?

Chairman: not by a longshot, I propose reducing the menu somewhat, to avoid clutter.

Vice chairman: well I suppose we could prune a little, what do you suggest?

Chairman: well currently we have around 50 sandwiches, I want that reduced to 5.

All: 5!?!?!?

Chairman: yes 5. Research shows that sales mostly consist of the top 5 sandwiches anyway.

Vice chairman: but what about choice? Sure it's understandable that our long term customers know what they want and go straight to their favourites but even so, to reduce the menu to just these top 5....

Chairman: whoa whoa whoa, who said the top 5?

Vice chairman: but you said...

Chairman: I said 5, not top 5. No my plan is to rotate the selection.

All: rotate?!?!?!

Chairman: yes, our sandwich designers have come up with too many great ideas, I'm not going to discard them just becomes no one actually buys them.

Stunned silence.

Vice chairman: so what happens if I fancy say a Big Mac one day and it's not on rotation?

Chairman: tough, you have a veggie burger instead.

Vice chairman: and if I don't like veggie burgers?

Chairman: again, tough, you should like them, they're good for you.

Vice chairman. I not sure that's the attitude we should take to our customers?

Chairman. How about we throw them a bone, for people who are fussy and won't just eat what we tell them, we have some sort of create a sandwich system so for ten quid we make what you want if you are prepared to wait an extra 20 minutes?

Vice chairman: but that's much more inconvenient and expensive them our current system! People are not going to like this.

Chairman: oh I am fully aware that the customers won't like it, I'm still going to do it. Right, shall we vote?

Vice chairman: can I please just propose another quick vote first?

Chairnan: of course.

Vice chairman: all those who have lost faith in the chair please raise your hands.

All raise hands

:)

 

 

Awesome job, love it.

[OverlordMcGeek]

Make damn sure you guys at least bring back the old star chart. You know the one that looks like an actual star chart...

[(PSN)meyerclan]

I play mostly on PS4, so I will get to see the good and the bad before it hits my Galaxy. I see some good in this, as there are times you could basically run a mission alone, because you need to, and no one else does at that time. Not their fault. I just need to get one more node done and I can have the whole map complete for say Neptune and then I can deploy my extractor. Just an example.

 

I wish DE would reveal more on it besides just talking about it and raising eyebrows during a stream and just smiling about it. Show us the chart. Ease our minds. Show us how it will work. I think DE owes us that. They can see by the responses here on the threads how we feel about it. I understand that people don't like change. Even when it could be a GOOD change we don't trust it when we see it coming.

 

Don't piss off those that are loyal to the game. Give us more material to work with. Lets see what this is all about.

Warframe could ascend to top of the charts for FTP MMO or drop like a rock.

[OverlordMcGeek]

McDonald's head office, the boardroom.

Chairma : gentlemen, ladies, I have called this emergency meeting because I have noticed something seriously wrong with our menu.

Puzzled looks and muttering all round.

Vice chairman: in what way sir? It seems fairly diverse, with most bases covered, something for everyone?

Chairman: that's the problem, it's too diverse.

More puzzled looks

Vice chairman: too diverse sir?

Chairman: yes I'm worried that when a new first time customer walks into a store they wlll be overwhelmed.

Vice chairman: well research shows that people like choice and our wide selection is generly regarded as an advantage over our competitors. I suppose we could get the art guys to tweak the menus a bit and train the staff to point newcomers in the right direction.

Chairman: you are not thinking drasticly enough.

Vice chairman: I'm not?

Chairman: not by a longshot, I propose reducing the menu somewhat, to avoid clutter.

Vice chairman: well I suppose we could prune a little, what do you suggest?

Chairman: well currently we have around 50 sandwiches, I want that reduced to 5.

All: 5!?!?!?

Chairman: yes 5. Research shows that sales mostly consist of the top 5 sandwiches anyway.

Vice chairman: but what about choice? Sure it's understandable that our long term customers know what they want and go straight to their favourites but even so, to reduce the menu to just these top 5....

Chairman: whoa whoa whoa, who said the top 5?

Vice chairman: but you said...

Chairman: I said 5, not top 5. No my plan is to rotate the selection.

All: rotate?!?!?!

Chairman: yes, our sandwich designers have come up with too many great ideas, I'm not going to discard them just becomes no one actually buys them.

Stunned silence.

Vice chairman: so what happens if I fancy say a Big Mac one day and it's not on rotation?

Chairman: tough, you have a veggie burger instead.

Vice chairman: and if I don't like veggie burgers?

Chairman: again, tough, you should like them, they're good for you.

Vice chairman. I not sure that's the attitude we should take to our customers?

Chairman. How about we throw them a bone, for people who are fussy and won't just eat what we tell them, we have some sort of create a sandwich system so for ten quid we make what you want if you are prepared to wait an extra 20 minutes?

Vice chairman: but that's much more inconvenient and expensive them our current system! People are not going to like this.

Chairman: oh I am fully aware that the customers won't like it, I'm still going to do it. Right, shall we vote?

Vice chairman: can I please just propose another quick vote first?

Chairnan: of course.

Vice chairman: all those who have lost faith in the chair please raise your hands.

All raise hands

:)

I think you just became our official voice.

[ValkyrWF]

We just need new tilesets, and some new planets.  I really hate seeing the same tileset over and over, and the game just gets repetitive because of that.

I've had ideas of having Io as a planet (well in reality its a moon of Jupiter) with a new tileset, and then I realized it was a node on Jupiter.  Ganymede, Callisto, Thebe, and basically all of Jupiter's nodes are named after its moons, so that's why I came up with the idea of having the moons as separate locations and renaming Jupiter's nodes after Greek/Roman gods.  Io would be a Corpus-controlled location and since its full of volcanoes I thought it would have a different tileset (I thought of a name as Corpus Volcano Planet) or just use the Corpus Ship tileset.  Io would be really high level because it would be a major mining facility for the Corpus.  The navigation segment would drop from Lieutenant Lech Kril on Ceres.

 

Levels 45-55

 

My idea for resources dropped on Io.

 

Nano Spores

Ferrite

Alloy Plate

Fieldtron Sample

 

Charon

I've also had ideas of adding Charon (the moon of Pluto) as a location, with the Corpus slowly gaining it from the Infested.  The node on Pluto could be renamed to Tartarus, which would still fit.  I would imagine it would use the Corpus Ice Planet tileset, however it seems a bit far for that...

 

Faction wars would be very common here between Corpus and Infested (and plenty of infestation outbreaks).  Navigation Segment would come from Ambulas on Pluto.

 

Levels 35-50

 

Resources:

Nano Spores

Neurodes (yay)

Alloy Plate

Mutagen Sample/Fieldtron Sample

Moon

I also thought of Earth's Moon as a possible location under control by the Grineer, it should use a special recolored version of the Grineer Asteroid Tileset.  The navigation segment would come from Councilor Vay Hek on Earth.  I thought of changing the name from Moon to Luna (which would be more official as this is the original latin name)

 

Levels 10-25

 

Resources:

Circuits

Salvage

Polymer Bundle

Detonite Ampule

 

After all, the moon is the second densest known object in the Solar System (origin system whatever).  It would be resource dense, and probably full of mining machine sabotage missions.

 

Asteroid Belt

Another idea I thought of is the Asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter as a possible location for Archwing missions ONLY.  After all, there's only 8 archwing missions (excluding alerts on different nodes).  Also the Grineer Asteroid Space Tileset is perfect for this because it is within an asteroid field anyway, just editing the skybox will make it fit.  Corpus and Grineer will control the Asteroid Belt and faction wars will regularly occur, invasions are also common, as the Asteroid Belt is full of resources both sides are eager to claim.  The only problem is that there is no script yet for invasions by Archwing Gamemode.

 

Resources:

Salvage

Plastids

Telerium (only obtainable through actual missions, not resource extractors)

Polymer Bundle

Detonite Ampule/Fieldtron Sample

 

Since DE implemented trials, I am not sure what to think about how these planets and future planets can be accessed.

[vaugahn]

I think you just became our official voice.

 

Let's not sugarcoat the problems with our current starchart just because the alternative might be worse.

[JackBeloved]

In regards to the solar chart rework, there are some things that it seems like most all players agree shouldn't be lost, but some new possibilities that dev and some players want to explore.

 

I don't see why we can't have both.

 

Please don't throw these things away:

 

1) Choice

The first thing that most people are reacting strongly to is the possibility of removing the current level of freedom to move around the system. At the moment, provided you've unlocked all the nodes, you can choose to go to any planet, fight any faction, face any level of enemy, or farm for any available reward. Although, I'd like to point out that we don't currently have complete freedom across all these variables- want to play Earth? You can. Want to play earth at level 30-35? Not possible. Want to farm for Rhino? Go ahead, whenever you like. Want to farm for Rhino while facing the Grineer? No way.

 

So a possible new way to rework the star chart that opens up more variety is to cross all these variables (see variety discussion below). Let the player choose the planet (and therefore tile set and enemy) and the level. Maybe free up rewards as dynamic variables set for either player choice or on a rotation (see rewards discussion below)? Anyway, rebuilding the solar chart provides an opportunity to either improve player choice, to limit it, or to keep it the same.

 

Please don't limit it. Not in a world where a large portion of your player base have jobs, families, school schedules, and other demands on their time. It's a valuable thing to be able to choose your goals when you have the time to play. It's a terrible thing to have to be slave to a rotation or RNG system if you have specific goals. Some people like certain weapon types, certain warframes, certain mission types, etc., and letting players choose to go for their specific goals whenever they have time to play allows them to play in the way that they like most and enjoy this wonderful game to the fullest.

 

2) Rewards

Players have to play missions to earn rewards- warframe components, crafting materials, or weapon blueprints and parts. At them moment, except for a few time-restricted rewards (Primed Chamber? Braton Vandal? Snipetron Vandal?), players can work towards just about anything they desire. Even some event rewards have been made available again, and talk of bringing old events back as quests sounds awesome. Please do that. In a way, rewards are why people play Warframe. Please don't limit their availability, or you'll be limiting players' reason to play.

 

As mentioned by dev before, though, players shouldn't be locked into endless missions in a single locale for the reward(s) they're pursuing (see variety below). Here are some possibilities for improving variety in regard to rewards:

 

i. Start making some rewards available in other ways. For example, take entry-level weapons out of alert rotations and daily login rewards and make them available for purchase through the Syndicates. Those NPC's that take our medallions could have a little shop as well- Red Veil could sell Heat Dagger and Heat Sword bp's, Steel Meridian could sell the Gorgon or Jaw Sword. Or convert some of them into clan tech- the Gorgon to Chem Lab, Glaive to Tenno Lab, etc. Then those alerts and daily login rewards could be opened up for other items.

 

ii. Streamline prime components. Why are Boltor Prime barrels and Burston Prime barrels different things, taking up different drop table locations, diluting things tremendously and making reward tables and locations more difficult, especially when looking forward towards even more prime weapons and warframes with multiple components? Why don't we just have Prime Barrels and Prime Helmets and Prime Blades, etc.? We already need specific blueprints to make each individual weapon/warfame, and the lore of Forma and the Foundry could (should?) easily support generic components.

 

By streamlining the drop tables with generic prime components like this, and by making some rewards available in new places like the syndicates or research, more room is freed up to disperse rewards across various mission types and locations without having to limit availability, especially with fewer nodes coming.

 

iii. Put some or all rewards on a rotation- not a rotation of availability, but of location. For example, rotate the boss to defeat for any given warframe's components. Want to build Rhino? Well, you'll have to fight Jackal for him this week (or month, or whatever), but next week it's Ambulas.

 

iv. Let players pick the reward and then try to earn it. For example, a player wants a Loki Prime blueprint. The player select this as the reward they're attempting to get through some means- perhaps through a terminal in the Liset, or through a new element in the Codex, or whatever- and then must meet a certain set of criteria to acquire it. Again, as an example- to acquire a Loki Prime blueprint, a player must complete a Mobile Defense at level 30 or higher, finish a Void Survival and a Corpus Survival at 30 minutes or more, and complete a Grineer Exterminate in under 5 minutes. Less valuable rewards would have less difficult criteria, and more difficult rewards would require more difficult and more complex criteria.

 

Instead of playing the same mission over and over, waiting for RNG to be kind, the criteria could force the player into variety and be just as difficult, perhaps even more so, than the current RNG system. I realize that this seems like creating mini-quests for each and every reward (although, it could be for only some rewards, say, prime rewards or warframe components), but that sounds like time and effort well spent to me- giving players guaranteed reasons to play, rewarding skill and dedication instead of leaving rewards up to chance, and elevating the complexity, difficulty, and variety of what you must play to get the reward. And a system as I've described here wouldn't require the new voice recording, characters and models, and all the other assets that need to be made for new events and proper quests. It would just be an if/then code thing- if this reward is selected and these requirements are met, then give the selected reward at the end of the last required mission.

 

3) Immersion

I love that the method for choosing missions is locked into a real-world representation like the solar chart. After DE threw out the old UI for the Liset (a great move, in my opinion), it would be a huge step backward to have mission selection revert to a UI of buttons and check boxes- select the faction, level, tile set, and mission type you want in some menu somewhere.

 

Shrinking the number of nodes is fine, but please don't break immersion by having a rotating lottery of available missions. Alerts follow a certain in-game logic; Lotus sends missions to Tenno's Lisets via Ordis or radio signals or whatever, and then we know where to navigate to to complete the mission. But if all missions work that way, then why do we have a Liset? Just to go where space-mom tells us? And then who's ultimately in control? I suppose one could say that in such a set-up the Lotus is controlling the Tenno, where they go and what they do, but this seems out of character for her, much less for the Tenno.

 

Streamlining the nodes is fine. Changing the solar map is fine. But please, don't break the world by limiting and dictating missions.

 

 

But these things sound neat:

 

1) More Variety

As dev has stated in multiple livestreams, they want and intend for players to face a variety of locations and enemies. Maybe some players like playing one single tile set and enemy and level, but most probably like a bit of variety. And of course, considering the amount of effort and work that DE puts into this game- it's obvious that Warframe is a huge labor of love- I would expect them to want as many players as possible to experience as much of the game as possible. I propose that this is a worthwhile and important goal for any game, and especially for Warframe.

 

So it seems that the main impetus behind a solar chart rework would be to afford this kind of variety, and to do so while also simplifying the system. I believe dev has stated as much. It seems like there are two methods of opening up more variety:

 

One way to expand the variety of missions in the game is to throw all the variables- enemy faction, enemy level, planet and tile set, bosses, perhaps even rewards- into a big RNG blender and make players wait to see what comes out (see the Mission Lottery mention in the immersion section above). This would make dynamic missions, like DESteve mentioned in the last livestream (and see dynamic missions discussion below), but would also limit player choice to an extent that many find too constrictive.

 

I don't believe such a system- where all available missions follow an RNG-determined set of parameters available to players for a set amount of time- is sustainable, and here's why. If DE limits mission availability, either with short windows of availability, or by only offering some missions for a more extended amount of time, but not others, then it is inevitably setting itself against some, if not many, players' goals. This would be terrible, and I'm sure not what DE wants. On the other hand, if DE opens the Mission Lottery up wide enough, offering so many available missions that nearly all players can find a mission they like/need, then what's the point of a rotation? Isn't that just another solar chart in a different UI?

 

So, to me it seems like the most sensible, and best, way to offer more variety would be through player-selected mission parameters and some of the reward changes mentioned above (see choice and rewards sections).

 

2) Dynamic Missions

After everything I've said against a rotation for available missions in the Immersion and Variety sections, I'm not actually against having a system for dynamic real-time missions, provided it's in addition to freedom to move throughout the solar chart and pursue whatever reward we've freely chosen. There is something to be said for the benefit to immersion that such a system would give- making the solar system feel alive and dynamic.

 

Perhaps alerts, invasions, and regular dynamic missions could be combined into a second level of mission selection with accelerated reward tables but RNG-determined availability. These dynamic missions could be an option above and beyond the regular, always-available Tenno-selected missions.

 

In this way, players who desire the control to farm for resources, weapons, warframes, etc., always have the option to do so, and dynamic missions would be a boon and not a limitation. Immersion would be enhanced, and not limited. Variety would always be fully available in regular missions, but also always be showcased in dynamic missions. That sounds like a win/win to me.

 

3) Quick-start Missions

No discussion of the star-chart rework would be complete without acknowledging the portion of the player base that doesn't seem to be worried about the prospect of removing player choice from mission selection. I'd assume that these players have far more time to commit to Warframe, or have already collected all weapons and warframes, or are simply uninterested in collecting and only care about playing. To these players, removing choice is helpful, because it gets them into the mission that much faster.

 

I've long thought that a 'random mission' button might be fun for such players, and even for myself from time to time when I have to set goal in mind and just want to play. There is something to be said for taking all the decision-making work out of the equation and offering players something random, surprising, maybe challenging. I think this should be in the game, either as it's own thing (i.e. "Play a random mission" button), or as a layer of dynamic missions (see above seciton).

 

Again, I think this is something that should be implemented on top of a foundation of free player choice. Players should be able to freely choose to give over the choice to the Lotus, or Tenshin, or RNG, or whatever it is. But not choosing should be a choice.

 

TL;DR

Please don't through out the baby with the bathwater. Let's do cool new things with the solar chart, like streamline options and add variety, without sacrificing essentials, like player choice and meaningful chances to earn rewards. It's worth the time and effort to get the best of both worlds.

Edited May 11, 2015 by JackBeloved

[ThePresident777]

McDonald's head office, the boardroom.

Chairma : gentlemen, ladies, I have called this emergency meeting because I have noticed something seriously wrong with our menu.

Puzzled looks and muttering all round.

Vice chairman: in what way sir? It seems fairly diverse, with most bases covered, something for everyone?

Chairman: that's the problem, it's too diverse.

More puzzled looks

Vice chairman: too diverse sir?

Chairman: yes I'm worried that when a new first time customer walks into a store they wlll be overwhelmed.

Vice chairman: well research shows that people like choice and our wide selection is generly regarded as an advantage over our competitors. I suppose we could get the art guys to tweak the menus a bit and train the staff to point newcomers in the right direction.

Chairman: you are not thinking drasticly enough.

Vice chairman: I'm not?

Chairman: not by a longshot, I propose reducing the menu somewhat, to avoid clutter.

Vice chairman: well I suppose we could prune a little, what do you suggest?

Chairman: well currently we have around 50 sandwiches, I want that reduced to 5.

All: 5!?!?!?

Chairman: yes 5. Research shows that sales mostly consist of the top 5 sandwiches anyway.

Vice chairman: but what about choice? Sure it's understandable that our long term customers know what they want and go straight to their favourites but even so, to reduce the menu to just these top 5....

Chairman: whoa whoa whoa, who said the top 5?

Vice chairman: but you said...

Chairman: I said 5, not top 5. No my plan is to rotate the selection.

All: rotate?!?!?!

Chairman: yes, our sandwich designers have come up with too many great ideas, I'm not going to discard them just becomes no one actually buys them.

Stunned silence.

Vice chairman: so what happens if I fancy say a Big Mac one day and it's not on rotation?

Chairman: tough, you have a veggie burger instead.

Vice chairman: and if I don't like veggie burgers?

Chairman: again, tough, you should like them, they're good for you.

Vice chairman. I not sure that's the attitude we should take to our customers?

Chairman. How about we throw them a bone, for people who are fussy and won't just eat what we tell them, we have some sort of create a sandwich system so for ten quid we make what you want if you are prepared to wait an extra 20 minutes?

Vice chairman: but that's much more inconvenient and expensive them our current system! People are not going to like this.

Chairman: oh I am fully aware that the customers won't like it, I'm still going to do it. Right, shall we vote?

Vice chairman: can I please just propose another quick vote first?

Chairnan: of course.

Vice chairman: all those who have lost faith in the chair please raise your hands.

All raise hands

:)

 

+100000000................

[Oakenman]

i wish they would do more than 20

 

not 100. maybe like 50. but i guess we'll have the normal missions that cycle, pseudo event missions, alert missions, and invasions. i guess we'll be fine

[TheBulitt]

this whole problem could be solved by having a "matchmaking" menu that lets us search for games by type/enemy/rank

 

The only thing people complain about is having to check each node for squads, why not just have a "search" matchmaking function, and along the same lines a "play now" button that finds the lowest ping host with open slots among all squads so people get the absolute best hosting experience possible.

 

This way if you want to voyage across the entire solar rail network and be a completionist like I am you can do that solo/using pugs as you go, but if I was on say saturn and someone searched for "grineer, Level 11-19" it would drop them into my squad and they'd be happy to do 4 or 5 different mission types in a row, but with the same level and faction of enemy.

Edited May 11, 2015 by TheBulitt

[SFkenny]

I was trying to get a friend into this game, but the minute I relayed how the proposed new star chart would work, she was like "I am so glad I didn't get into this."

 

Please, rethink the whole idea. If I wanted to play space Payday 2, I would.

[(PSN)meyerclan]

ok.....the McDonalds analogy was great!

That is how some of us feel.

 

I also like the idea of adding to the current start chart. Its not great, but like one person pointed out, what about Earths moon. That would be a great venue for additional missions.

 

I would also like to see that the missions we complete, actually have an affect on the map. Like the Multiplayer game HELLDIVERS. The more maps the Tenno complete, the less control a certain faction has power.

[kilerskull]

So is there an official thread about this? Because I have no idea whats going on.

[TheBulitt]

technically this is the "official" thread because mods have been merging and locking others to do with this

[ThePresident777]

Kilerskull, we're in an uproar over this:

New Starchart
• Hoping to appear in U17
• 300 nodes are being condensed to 20 nodes
• There may be time-based instances, such as Vor appearing temporarily, dropping different things each time
• Similar to Alerts, but hopefully not something that punishes players for sleeping
• There will be some removal of player choice - you will no longer be able to select whichever mission type you want, whenever you want; hopefully this will be better for the game overall
• Re-viewing player made quests again and designing the starchart so that these will be able to fit into it; hopefully this will be the answer to players that resent the removal of choice

(Notes thanks to AM-Bunny: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/454266-devstream-52-overview/)

 

DE wants to stop us from selecting whatever mission type we want when we want because the Star Chart is full of ghost towns (that DE created) and only a few nodes worth playing (that DE created).

 

DE's solution to only a few nodes being worth playing (thanks to DE) is to RNGesus and key wall everything, rather than just make everything worth playing and giving us a convenient means to manage the choices we wish to make.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ThePresident777

[vaugahn]

That would be a great venue for additional missions.

 

We don't need any additional missions!

 

Look at Eris. It's currently the biggest planet with 29 nodes. It has 4 exterminates, 4 mobile defenses, 3 rescues, 5 hives, 2 captures, 2 spys, 4 survivals, and 4 defenses.

 

That is absurd. 5 hive missions?? When was the last time you played a hive mission? Why on earth do we need 5? 

 

We don't need timelocked or RNG-locked missions, but we don't need duplicates either. And right now, almost half the starchart is duplicates. It's all well and good to say that's variety, but it's not.

[ThePresident777]

4 factions x 18 missions x 8 level ranges = 576 missions  (not counting tilesets, resources, Sentients, etc. but over counting faction limited missions)

 

We do need all those missions.  What we don't need is DE deciding for us which 20 will be worth our time.

[TheBrsrkr]

Remember, they said that the Devstream was more like a whiteboard instead of a stone tablet. We still don't know what exactly they're going to do. In fact, THEY don't even know what they're going to do. You guys are really overreacting. DE has a vision, and they're throwing around ideas to try to achieve that vision. If it's anything like advertised, we're going to be having a lot of fun soon.

 

https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/593889843094155265

[RoboDoge]

We don't need any additional missions!

 

Look at Eris. It's currently the biggest planet with 29 nodes. It has 4 exterminates, 4 mobile defenses, 3 rescues, 5 hives, 2 captures, 2 spys, 4 survivals, and 4 defenses.

 

That is absurd. 5 hive missions?? When was the last time you played a hive mission? Why on earth do we need 5? 

 

We don't need timelocked or RNG-locked missions, but we don't need duplicates either. And right now, almost half the starchart is duplicates. It's all well and good to say that's variety, but it's not.

DE can easily fix which missions are played if they just give decent rewards for them. No one wants to run hive missions that only gives 7 000 credits.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

4 factions x 18 missions x 8 level ranges = 576 missions  (not counting tilesets, resources, Sentients, etc. but over counting faction limited missions)

 

We do need all those missions.  What we don't need is DE deciding for us which 20 will be worth our time.

 

If we needed all those missions, we wouldn't be in this position to begin with because there wouldn't be any "ghost towns."

[vaugahn]

We do need all those missions. 

 

I'm part of the small minority who actually enjoys hive missions, and I definitely don't need 5 of them. All that does is make it hard to find pubs, since the players are split five ways across identical missions.

 

But let's use a more mainstream example. There are 3 defense missions on Pluto, including the Dark Sector one. They all draw from the same reward pool, and spawn the exact same level enemies. I think they maybe use different tilesets or something? Without talking about the Dark Sector mission, why do we need two there? What purpose does that serve? It's not to play in a different level range, because the level ranges are exactly the same. It's not to get different types of rewards, because they offer the exact same rewards. And on top of that, we have the Dark Sector mission. Why would you ever play those two defenses when there's a third defense that's even easier and offers better drops? Do you not see the problem there?

 

So no, we do not need all those missions. Anyone who claims we need every mission on the starchart is making things up.

Edited May 11, 2015 by vaugahn

[Krion112]

Let's not sugarcoat the problems with our current starchart just because the alternative might be worse.

In the McDonalds example provided, the perspective of the vice chairman agreed that the menu could be shortened somewhat to remove 'duplications', which is pretty much what we're trying to say in the first place:

 

It's alright if we remove the ghost towns by lessening the amount of duplicate nodes. I mean, as has been said, there's no need for more than one Exterminate or any other mission type on a single planet. However, at the same time, one of the things that actually makes Warframe fun is the choice; some days I can go for an Earth Defense, and other days I cannot. Some days I feel like running a Jupiter Exterminate and Capture, and then switch over to Europa Excavation, and other days I'd like to switch it up a bit.

 

But the whole reason that the present system does it better than the proposed system is because I, alongside every other player, have the leisure to pick. If I don't have the leisure of choice and the game has not given me choices that line up with my interests on a particular day, I'm going to choose not to play at all.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Krion112

[ThePresident777]

OK, which (faction, mission, level range) tupples should get thrown out?  Let's get rid of Hive because "no one" ever plays that. 568 missions left.  Go on everybody, let's gore some Oxes, then go back to Draco for some rep.

 

We all know why ghost towns exist on the Star Chart, the reason why only a few nodes get played.  It's because only a few nodes are favored by DE with good rewards and the rest are crap.  Let's stop pretending that getting rid of nodes solves any problems.  Let's stop pretending that getting rid of choice is the solution to DE already having gotten rid of our choices and now just wanting to tidy up the map with RGNessus Grind 9000.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Spindle99]

If they had said "we want to cut the amount of nodes back to 100 or 150" there would of been little to no outrage.

 

The outrage came because they went crazy and said 20 nodes, a number so incredibly low that it would force rotations and add another layer of rng

 

I hasten to add that this is also coming with the destruction of the void too, which adds yet more rng to doing those.