Spicing Up Mesa's Peacemaker

[(PSN)avatar-heart]

THIS^ so much... btw why so many ults dps only... i mean some good frames in the current meta are used because buffs BUFFS

Edited May 12, 2015 by (PS4)avatar-heart

[Crewell]

I kind of like the ammo idea for Peacemaker. I've been on both sides of the Peacemaker spam, and on either side it's damn boring. Putting a soft cap on how long you can chain fire with the addition of the channeled stance cost might be what it takes to break the monotony. Here are a couple things to make Peacemaker a bit more interactive and less spammable.

1. It will only kill things in your line of view. Of course you can pan around to shoot at every direction.

2. Each shot consumes a chunk (something around 10 which would allow 10 unpaused shots unmodded) of stamina. While in Peacemaker mode stamina only recharges when you stop shooting. This may even add some value to mods like Marathon and Quick Rest.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Crewell

[DSpite]

I kind of like the ammo idea for Peacemaker. I've been on both sides of the Peacemaker spam, and on either side it's damn boring. Putting a soft cap on how long you can chain fire with the addition of the channeled stance cost might be what it takes to break the monotony. Here are a couple things to make Peacemaker a bit more interactive and less spammable.

1. It will only kill things in your line of view. Of course you can pan around to shoot at every direction.

2. Each shot consumes a chunk (something around 10 which would allow 10 unpaused shots unmodded) of stamina. While in Peacemaker mode stamina only recharges when you stop shooting. This may even add some value to mods like Marathon and Quick Rest.

 

I'm not saying these are bad ideas, but I would like to point out that it sounds too much like going from one extreme to another. I do also think the current Ult is a bit ... weird, but making it this bland sound like overkill.

 

I do agree that it should not be 360 degrees but more targeted, and I do agree that simply holding down the button with nothing bad happening is a bit over the top, but DE should find a middle ground somewhere that does not dilute the original mechanics too much.

[OvAeons]

Peacemaker REALLY does need flavour, sick of mesa's joining games standing in one place and 'spamming' 4. I am not even joking, i drop from games when a mesa excessively, needlessly peacemakes.

 

Side note: 4 forma in my mesa to make skill 2 and 3 the best it can get and it is amazing NOT using peacemaker.

[EchoesOfRain]

Can Peacemaker be a bit more like this plz...?

 

[Deodus]

In my group we only use Mesa for high level mobs (read here 100+) and it clearly isn't powerful enough on its own. We need at least one Nova and a Banshee just to HOPE to kill enemies quick enough not to get overrun and in Corpus and Tower Def. we need at least one person who's task is taking care of the Nullifiers.

 

People who find frames OP usually don't do HL stuff, which is fine by me, but nerfing a frame because it instagib everything under level 50 is not a viable solution if anyone intend to play against HL enemies.

 

That being said, I think the current way Peacemaker work isn't right like it has been said in that thread and so many others : It feels too "passive" and I don't like playing it because it bores me to death but I use it because we need to. (You know with the enemy scaling/damage scaling problem and whatnot problems we still have concerning all this HL stuff)

 

...

 

In no shape or form are we asking for damage change, just mechanical ones. This is simply to add some flavor to the rather bland mechanic that we currently have ~

 

 

Well that's basically a nerf for its max DPS config, albeit it's an indirect one it's still a nerf.

 

While I clearly understand the fact that Mesa annoys/bore both people playing it and playing with it we currently have no real good alternative to ease out the HL content.

[DSpite]

 

In my group we only use Mesa for high level mobs (read here 100+) and it clearly isn't powerful enough on its own. We need at least one Nova and a Banshee just to HOPE to kill enemies quick enough not to get overrun and in Corpus and Tower Def. we need at least one person who's task is taking care of the Nullifiers.

 

People who find frames OP usually don't do HL stuff, which is fine by me, but nerfing a frame because it instagib everything under level 50 is not a viable solution if anyone intend to play against HL enemies.

 

That being said, I think the current way Peacemaker work isn't right like it has been said in that thread and so many others : It feels too "passive" and I don't like playing it because it bores me to death but I use it because we need to. (You know with the enemy scaling/damage scaling problem and whatnot problems we still have concerning all this HL stuff)

 

 

Well that's basically a nerf for its max DPS config, albeit it's an indirect one it's still a nerf.

 

While I clearly understand the fact that Mesa annoys/bore both people playing it and playing with it we currently have no real good alternative to ease out the HL content.

 

 

TL;DR - Until we get DE to change the "swarm" gameplay, with it's very high pressure spawns, fast closing units, etc etc, then we have to have over-the-top abilities that have a high kill turnover as well, otherwise we just get over run.

 

---

 

I also appreciate when people talk about he fact that Ultimates do get to a stage where the do not kill everything in one hit, but the reality of a game such as this one is that there should NOT be Ultimates that kill everything in one hit all the time AT ALL.

 

Ultimates should set up the kills, not create them. They should, at best, kill or seriously incapacitate the trash mobs to a larger extent, and prep higher level units for finishers, or kill shots, or crits or similar, this would keep the game flowing, would allow DE not to SWARM anywhere near as much, and would keep us engaged.

 

Now just as example, with other abilities, Rhino Stomp freezing units in mid air is a good example. When the trash units hit the 25-30 mark, the damage should stop killing but still ragdoll trash for much longer periods, allowing players to shoot things while they are getting up, and maybe keep any units that were hit as "crippled". Mag Crush is another, where anything "crushed" but not killed staying "crippled" to some extent. Ash's Bladestorm could apply high level long lasting bleeds and negatives, etc etc, even Radial Javelin should be a rag doll effect with a cripple/bleed, it should soften up units for faster kills. By being a tile wipe ability, it makes DE just summon more swarms to counter.

 

Basically, abilities should be there to soften things up, and NOT wipe maps. We can do that with the damn guns, or shock-horror, lower level Abilities.

 

With that in mind, looking at Peacemaker, and assuming that a normal build stopped killing trash outright at the 25-30 mark, then the bullet rounds should stagger/knockback, or simply have high chances of applying the regular Slash/Puncture/Impact Procs, and generally "juggle CC" the enemies and set them up for other team players to take out a lot easier, rather then "bang bang everything dies".

 

If we get more engaging abilities we can also get more engaging - and less swarm based - game play, but if we don't get both at once we just end up a lot more dead on the current maps. I mean, even on Mobile Defense maps, on my Excalibur, I was basically forced to spam 4, note FORCED. Pod losing health fast, red dots all over it, around it, and closing in. Hitting 4 instantly got me back max energy to do it again because of the enemy density, and 3 seconds later I could repeat the process.

 

If you dump into my tile a fresh set of 50 enemies every 2-3 seconds, it does tend to limit my options on how I can deal with them, and I will choose the optimum, and the optimum right now is the Ultimates, especially when I know dead units drop more energy.

 

That sheer level of swarming is far more boring then Mesa Ultimate I'm afraid.

Edited May 12, 2015 by DSpite

[S7ORM]

How about:

 

1. Peacemaker always targets the enemies closest to your crosshair first.

 

2. Peacemaker is only capable of targeting enemies visible on your screen, or within X distance of your crosshair.

 

This makes Peacemaker more reliable by allowing for selective aiming, while placing a limitation on it to prevent P42W scumbaggery.

I dont know if has been said but, make it like mag pull  a cone. yo can control were to shoot and you will shoot everything in that cone, lets say, every on the screen. that woudl alow you to control were to shoot, being the same ability and not taking away the autoaim.

 

These suggestions are part of what is being proposed, already. If you read the second quote in the OP, it explains that Mesa will still auto-target enemies in sight, but will prioritize enemies you put the crosshairs over -- so if an enemy is getting too close to you, turn the crosshairs on it and you'll shoot that one first, then auto-aim at other enemies.

 

Maybe we should make Mesa ultimate ... *checks to make sure hes not standing on plastic* ... use up Stamina.

I kind of like the ammo idea for Peacemaker. I've been on both sides of the Peacemaker spam, and on either side it's damn boring. Putting a soft cap on how long you can chain fire with the addition of the channeled stance cost might be what it takes to break the monotony. Here are a couple things to make Peacemaker a bit more interactive and less spammable.

1. It will only kill things in your line of view. Of course you can pan around to shoot at every direction.

2. Each shot consumes a chunk (something around 10 which would allow 10 unpaused shots unmodded) of stamina. While in Peacemaker mode stamina only recharges when you stop shooting. This may even add some value to mods like Marathon and Quick Rest.

Hmm...  that's an interesting though, making it rely on Stamina. I hadn't thought of that before. However, I have to agree with the quote below:

I'm not saying these are bad ideas, but I would like to point out that it sounds too much like going from one extreme to another. I do also think the current Ult is a bit ... weird, but making it this bland sound like overkill.

 

I do agree that it should not be 360 degrees but more targeted, and I do agree that simply holding down the button with nothing bad happening is a bit over the top, but DE should find a middle ground somewhere that does not dilute the original mechanics too much.

I'm not looking to revamp the ability, just add a soft-lock on the number of enemies that can be killed in quick succession (obviously still keeping it at a reasonable number -- enough to clear an area and revive a downed teammate like any other 4th ability). That's why I went for the ammo capacity with reload, not changing the mechanics drastically.

The proximity to crosshairs thing was intended to be the buff that Peacemaker has needed for a while, to counter the reduction in spammability. It acts as a balance, while also giving the ability more functionality towards keeping Mesa alive while she can't move.

 

Can Peacemaker be a bit more like this plz...?

 

I'll watch that when I get home -- youtube is blocked here. I'm going to guess no, for now.

Just watched it. You may be interested in the thread about "8-bit Warframe," but no. In the actual warframe game, that's literally just shooting your primary or secondary weapon.

 

 

In my group we only use Mesa for high level mobs (read here 100+) and it clearly isn't powerful enough on its own. We need at least one Nova and a Banshee just to HOPE to kill enemies quick enough not to get overrun and in Corpus and Tower Def. we need at least one person who's task is taking care of the Nullifiers.

 

People who find frames OP usually don't do HL stuff, which is fine by me, but nerfing a frame because it instagib everything under level 50 is not a viable solution if anyone intend to play against HL enemies.

I'm breaking your quote up into pieces to address each piece easily. For the above, as I've said before, Yes, Mesa's peacemaker, as with other pure-damage abilities, doesn't scale into high levels. However, The game is not being balanced against endless t4 missions, and it's not being balanced for Veteran players. It's being balanced for Starchart level enemies (1->Ishouldreallycheckthisbutsomethinglike40) and mid-experienced players. Not Veterans. Not new players.

Trust me, I do lots of high level stuff. The reason this is being suggested for Mesa is because it, as this other quote might inform you,

Ultimately, that's the problem with peacemaker, it removes a ton of gameplay from people. It's not about the kills, nor is it about the damage percentage, its about removing your ability to simply play the game.

 

Which you have agreed with:

That being said, I think the current way Peacemaker work isn't right like it has been said in that thread and so many others : It feels too "passive" and I don't like playing it because it bores me to death but I use it because we need to. (You know with the enemy scaling/damage scaling problem and whatnot problems we still have concerning all this HL stuff)

 

Well that's basically a nerf for its max DPS config, albeit it's an indirect one it's still a nerf.

 

While I clearly understand the fact that Mesa annoys/bore both people playing it and playing with it we currently have no real good alternative to ease out the HL content.

It's not as much of a nerf as you seem to think though. You'll still be able to kill all enemies in sight for a short while after it's cast. You just won't be able to continuously kill all enemies in sight without interacting with the game, or changing out of Peacemaker.

Other warframes (with the exception of Banshee) can't just continuously slaughter enemies the way Mesa does, with their 4ths. They either have limited durations, or don't do damage. All we're doing is aligning it with that model of ability.

The change here will not make Mesa a less-viable frame for any type of mission -- but it WILL do a few things: it will make the game more engaging for all players that either A) Use Mesa, or B) Will at any time play with a Mesa in the future, it will encourage the usage of her other abilities.

Edited May 12, 2015 by S7ORM

[EchoesOfRain]

Just watched it. You may be interested in the thread about "8-bit Warframe," but no. In the actual warframe game, that's literally just shooting your primary or secondary weapon.

 

 

I imagine it more as the "Cone" suggestion people have brought up. Basically its just a wide cone that auto targets anything within range, starting with the closest enemies. Meanwhile, Mesa could slowly walk around and aim as she pleases.

[Betailas]

Go on, keep complaining and suggesting to nerf the OP Mesa, do it! And the DE will nerf it in a way that it will turn it into an unplayable frame. Mesa is not OP, it has a lot of disadvantages as low health, Peacemaker eats a lot of energy and the energy cannot be replenished during this, and so on, and take it to your attention - Mesa is a very team-dependent frame, so when the rest of team are just lamers and noobs, Mesa dies veeery fast. And trust me, I know what I'm talking about cause I played a lot for Mesa and take it only when playing with my friends and I know that they will cover me in a difficult moment. And concerning such words as "it kills everything" - try to kill everything in the void, t4 surv or t4 def on higher levels without a good team or even solo. Mobs will just wipe you off in seconds. So stop to propose all this nonsense, because DE can do it it in their own, very weird way.

[Betailas]

 

 

These suggestions are part of what is being proposed, already. If you read the second quote in the OP, it explains that Mesa will still auto-target enemies in sight, but will prioritize enemies you put the crosshairs over -- so if an enemy is getting too close to you, turn the crosshairs on it and you'll shoot that one first, then auto-aim at other enemies.

 

Hmm...  that's an interesting though, making it rely on Stamina. I hadn't thought of that before. However, I have to agree with the quote below:

I'm not looking to revamp the ability, just add a soft-lock on the number of enemies that can be killed in quick succession (obviously still keeping it at a reasonable number -- enough to clear an area and revive a downed teammate like any other 4th ability). That's why I went for the ammo capacity with reload, not changing the mechanics drastically.

The proximity to crosshairs thing was intended to be the buff that Peacemaker has needed for a while, to counter the reduction in spammability. It acts as a balance, while also giving the ability more functionality towards keeping Mesa alive while she can't move.

 

I'll watch that when I get home -- youtube is blocked here. I'm going to guess no, for now.

Just watched it. You may be interested in the thread about "8-bit Warframe," but no. In the actual warframe game, that's literally just shooting your primary or secondary weapon.

 

I'm breaking your quote up into pieces to address each piece easily. For the above, as I've said before, Yes, Mesa's peacemaker, as with other pure-damage abilities, doesn't scale into high levels. However, The game is not being balanced against endless t4 missions, and it's not being balanced for Veteran players. It's being balanced for Starchart level enemies (1->Ishouldreallycheckthisbutsomethinglike40) and mid-experienced players. Not Veterans. Not new players.

Trust me, I do lots of high level stuff. The reason this is being suggested for Mesa is because it, as this other quote might inform you,

 

Which you have agreed with:

 

 

 

It's not as much of a nerf as you seem to think though. You'll still be able to kill all enemies in sight for a short while after it's cast. You just won't be able to continuously kill all enemies in sight without interacting with the game, or changing out of Peacemaker.

Other warframes (with the exception of Banshee) can't just continuously slaughter enemies the way Mesa does, with their 4ths. They either have limited durations, or don't do damage. All we're doing is aligning it with that model of ability.

The change here will not make Mesa a less-viable frame for any type of mission -- but it WILL do a few things: it will make the game more engaging for all players that either A) Use Mesa, or B) Will at any time play with a Mesa in the future, it will encourage the usage of her other abilities.

 

Funny, very funny! I use ALL HER ABILITIES. They are all very useful. Concerning this "Other warframes (with the exception of Banshee) can't just continuously slaughter enemies the way Mesa does, with their 4ths. They either have limited durations, or don't do damage. All we're doing is aligning it with that model of ability." - nonsense. All frames, including Mesa, have their weak points. And again - stop complaining. Mesa's 4th skill eats mana VERY fast even with 175% power efficiency, while she is very vulnerable at this moment, even under ballistic shield. So, all these complains are from those people, who can only complain. Go on, and DE wil hear you/ 

[Endrance]

A simple "fix" would be the removal of the Auto-target.

 

Would be the same ult, but now you would need to actually aim

Edited May 13, 2015 by Endrance

[Fionntan]

A simple "fix" would be the removal of the Auto-target.

 

Would be the same ult, but now you would need to actually aim

 

That would hinder the ult too much.

 

Plus is been suggested instead to add the "aim" part as a side-dish when not holding fire to auto-aim ~

Edited May 13, 2015 by Fionntan

[S7ORM]

That would hinder the ult too much.

 

Plus is been suggested instead to add the "aim" part as a side-dish when not holding fire to auto-aim ~

I am in agreement with this poster.

 

A simple "fix" would be the removal of the Auto-target.

 

Would be the same ult, but now you would need to actually aim

This would literally remove the fact that it's a power. That would literally just be a hitscan dual weild pistol...

[S7ORM]

Go on, keep complaining and suggesting to nerf the OP Mesa, do it! And the DE will nerf it in a way that it will turn it into an unplayable frame. Mesa is not OP, it has a lot of disadvantages as low health, Peacemaker eats a lot of energy and the energy cannot be replenished during this, and so on, and take it to your attention - Mesa is a very team-dependent frame, so when the rest of team are just lamers and noobs, Mesa dies veeery fast. And trust me, I know what I'm talking about cause I played a lot for Mesa and take it only when playing with my friends and I know that they will cover me in a difficult moment. And concerning such words as "it kills everything" - try to kill everything in the void, t4 surv or t4 def on higher levels without a good team or even solo. Mobs will just wipe you off in seconds. So stop to propose all this nonsense, because DE can do it it in their own, very weird way.

She's absolutely not a team dependent frame. You have no idea how many void defenses I've played where someone brought a Mesa. Even without Greedy Mag, she just drops a few energy restores between rounds and nobody has any fun.

And again, again, AGAIN, we're NOT balancing the game to T4 Endless missions! We're just not!

Further than that, the suggestions proposed are not reducing the damage of the shots, so Mesa will still be able to kill the same level enemies as before -- she just won't be able to kill as many as quickly, for as long.

 

Funny, very funny! I use ALL HER ABILITIES. They are all very useful. Concerning this "Other warframes (with the exception of Banshee) can't just continuously slaughter enemies the way Mesa does, with their 4ths. They either have limited durations, or don't do damage. All we're doing is aligning it with that model of ability." - nonsense. All frames, including Mesa, have their weak points. And again - stop complaining. Mesa's 4th skill eats mana VERY fast even with 175% power efficiency, while she is very vulnerable at this moment, even under ballistic shield. So, all these complains are from those people, who can only complain. Go on, and DE wil hear you/ 

When Banshee can do 1800k damage per hit with 300% crit damage and 50% crit chance on Soundquake, she'll have to be changed as well.

And before anyone mentions how Banshee can hit multiple enemies at once, Mesa can hit individual enemies more quickly and from further away.

Yes, if you start the ability when enemies are close to you, Mesa will probably be killed. But how many people don't have Peacemaker up right at the start of waves/interception captures, and leave them running all the way through?

Remember the double credit weekend with Chroma's bug doubling end-mission credit rewards? Remember how that mission was literally a Mesa using peacemaker, a mag and a chroma? Remember how quickly all the level 40 infestation died? Yeah, you should not be able to slaughter entire waves just so continuously like that. One wave, sure. Several waves in a row, sure, but not all in the same cast of Peacemaker, with no player interaction from anyone in the squad.

The proposed changes affect that previous sentence, no more, no less.

Edited May 13, 2015 by S7ORM

[Betailas]

She's absolutely not a team dependent frame. You have no idea how many void defenses I've played where someone brought a Mesa. Even without Greedy Mag, she just drops a few energy restores between rounds and nobody has any fun.

And again, again, AGAIN, we're NOT balancing the game to T4 Endless missions! We're just not!

Further than that, the suggestions proposed are not reducing the damage of the shots, so Mesa will still be able to kill the same level enemies as before -- she just won't be able to kill as many as quickly, for as long.

 

When Banshee can do 1800k damage per hit with 300% crit damage and 50% crit chance on Soundquake, she'll have to be changed as well.

And before anyone mentions how Banshee can hit multiple enemies at once, Mesa can hit individual enemies more quickly and from further away.

Yes, if you start the ability when enemies are close to you, Mesa will probably be killed. But how many people don't have Peacemaker up right at the start of waves/interception captures, and leave them running all the way through?

Remember the double credit weekend with Chroma's bug doubling end-mission credit rewards? Remember how that mission was literally a Mesa using peacemaker, a mag and a chroma? Remember how quickly all the level 40 infestation died? Yeah, you should not be able to slaughter entire waves just so continuously like that. One wave, sure. Several waves in a row, sure, but not all in the same cast of Peacemaker, with no player interaction from anyone in the squad.

The proposed changes affect that previous sentence, no more, no less.

I know what I'm talking about, trust me, I played a lot for Mesa, and she's a really team dependent frame. Point. And I know how to play for her and played variuos mission types against various enemies. Btw, 40-lvl infested are not an indicator. All these complains are just senseless. Another point.

[Betailas]

Any thoughts about Saryn with 8k per ult? Even 60lvl mobs die quite fast, and it costs 25 power, btw, with proper build, while energy pool is at least 300. Let's calculate then how much damage she can deal in just some clicks. So stop finally whining! "Mesa is TOO OP, blah-blah-blah! Nerf it!"

[(PSN)thefndodge]

I know what I'm talking about, trust me, I played a lot for Mesa, and she's a really team dependent frame. Point. And I know how to play for her and played variuos mission types against various enemies. Btw, 40-lvl infested are not an indicator. All these complains are just senseless. Another point.

Jennifer Lawrence is madly in love with me and wants to have my babies. Point.

 

Any thoughts about Saryn with 8k per ult? Even 60lvl mobs die quite fast, and it costs 25 power, btw, with proper build, while energy pool is at least 300. Let's calculate then how much damage she can deal in just some clicks. So stop finally whining! "Mesa is TOO OP, blah-blah-blah! Nerf it!"

Yeah, Saryn can be pretty annoying like that, but at least Miasma has a limited range.

[S7ORM]

Any thoughts about Saryn with 8k per ult? Even 60lvl mobs die quite fast, and it costs 25 power, btw, with proper build, while energy pool is at least 300. Let's calculate then how much damage she can deal in just some clicks. So stop finally whining! "Mesa is TOO OP, blah-blah-blah! Nerf it!"

I have another thread running to change Saryn's abilities, perhaps you should looks that one over too:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/452337-saryn-ability-changes-for-scalability/#entry5031620

 

I know what I'm talking about, trust me, I played a lot for Mesa, and she's a really team dependent frame. Point. And I know how to play for her and played variuos mission types against various enemies. Btw, 40-lvl infested are not an indicator. All these complains are just senseless. Another point.

Regardless of how you play Mesa and who you play with, it doesn't change the fact that Peacemaker is absolutely an abuse of gameplay, abused by a vast majority of people her use her, and requires a change to its mechanics. You're still going to  be able to play Mesa, and she's still going to be as good, she just won't sit in one spot for minutes on end without player input. She's still going to be able to sit there and kill things, you'll just have to turn off the macro.

Jennifer Lawrence is madly in love with me and wants to have my babies. Point.

 

Yeah, Saryn can be pretty annoying like that, but at least Miasma has a limited range.

I know you think you're helping, but that first line isn't.

 

To all: this thread isn't about Saryn, and we aren't focusing on arguments like 'This Warframe is better than this Warframe." It's analogous to "9/11 was worse than the Boston Marathon Bombing, so don't worry about people trying to blow things up, go worry about people trying to hijack planes instead."

How about we do both. Yes, Miasma is OP. Yes, Peacemaker is abusable. Both need changes, along with several other powers.

[Betailas]

Jennifer Lawrence is madly in love with me and wants to have my babies. Point.

 

Yeah, Saryn can be pretty annoying like that, but at least Miasma has a limited range.

1) And? This is all that you can tell? Quite poor. School-boy style :D

2) But Peacemaker also has a limited range, 50m. Nova's Prime has even more and what? Such wining is annoying.

[Fionntan]

1) And? This is all that you can tell? Quite poor. School-boy style :D

2) But Peacemaker also has a limited range, 50m. Nova's Prime has even more and what? Such wining is annoying.

 

We also had a share use of Mesa's abilities and she is fun ~

 

Until after a week or so I found her ult lackluster for teamwork.

 

She is dependent frame yes.

 

Yes other folks needs to defend her.

 

However she does not leave anything on the plate in the aftermath or in between after several waves in.

 

Also there is 0 whining in this thread, my friend. All open for suggestions and feedback....

 

Rather than hyperbole some of the suggestions... why not take a deep breath and simmer down a bit...

[S7ORM]

1) And? This is all that you can tell? Quite poor. School-boy style :D

2) But Peacemaker also has a limited range, 50m. Nova's Prime has even more and what? Such wining is annoying.

See:

To all: this thread isn't about Saryn NOVA, and we aren't focusing on arguments like 'This Warframe is better than this Warframe." It's analogous to "9/11 was worse than the Boston Marathon Bombing, so don't worry about people trying to blow things up, go worry about people trying to hijack planes instead."

How about we do both. Yes, Miasma MPrime is OP. Yes, Peacemaker is abusable. Both need changes, along with several other powers.

 

 

We also had a share use of Mesa's abilities and she is fun ~

 

Until after a week or so I found her ult lackluster for teamwork.

 

She is dependent frame yes.

 

Yes other folks needs to defend her.

 

However she does not leave anything on the plate in the aftermath or in between after several waves in.

 

Also there is 0 whining in this thread, my friend. All open for suggestions and feedback....

 

Rather than hyperbole some of the suggestions... why not take a deep breath and simmer down a bit...

Exactly. That's what this thread is about.

[Betailas]

Well, just remember my words when DE will nerf it in such a way, that she will turn into a piece of useless scrap.

[Ocaz]

The reason players think Mesa needs a nerf is because she was made perfectly. Her abilities have synergy and she has amazing survivability because of this. Other frames were not made with the same consideration Mesa was made.

 

Mesa is made to be that crazy wild person in the movies who seems to have a peculiarly amazing aim and an infinite magazine. She isn't in need of a nerf, the other frames need a buff. Mesa sits on that fine line of if anything is changed about her, she would suck.

 

Considering the way u must get her, and her plat price of 325, shes deserving of this power.

 

Rhino hasn't been nerfed because he also sits on this fine line, his abilities are just as powerful as Mesa's. Arguably, any of the overused frames have the same power as Mesa, just in their own way which is quite obviously hard to see because her abilities look different or function differently. Either way there is still a mass murder that happens.

 

Stop trying to fix something that isn't broken, its not your job.

 

Play the game and try to have a good time. If you happen to be carried by a Mesa so be it. Mesa needs quite a few forma and a decent amount of R10 gold mods to be as good as the ones you see. If ur not up to farming in an MMO like game, don't make threads that attempt to ruin it for everyone else.

[Betailas]

I have another thread running to change Saryn's abilities, perhaps you should looks that one over too:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/452337-saryn-ability-changes-for-scalability/#entry5031620

 

Regardless of how you play Mesa and who you play with, it doesn't change the fact that Peacemaker is absolutely an abuse of gameplay, abused by a vast majority of people her use her, and requires a change to its mechanics. You're still going to  be able to play Mesa, and she's still going to be as good, she just won't sit in one spot for minutes on end without player input. She's still going to be able to sit there and kill things, you'll just have to turn off the macro.

I know you think you're helping, but that first line isn't.

 

To all: this thread isn't about Saryn, and we aren't focusing on arguments like 'This Warframe is better than this Warframe." It's analogous to "9/11 was worse than the Boston Marathon Bombing, so don't worry about people trying to blow things up, go worry about people trying to hijack planes instead."

How about we do both. Yes, Miasma is OP. Yes, Peacemaker is abusable. Both need changes, along with several other powers.

OK! Let's nerf all the frames! All hail the almighty DE!