Update 7.11.0: Vauban!

[Furyoushounen]

I'd like to preface this by saying I love this game, I really do. To the point where I've browbeaten my friends to start playing. Almost fanatically singing it's praises. What can I say? I really enjoy it.

 

But there are parts of this update that really bother me.

 

First off the Iron Skin thing...it's brutal. The only thing that made Rhino playable is now gone. And that saddens me greatly. I could handle always being slow and clunky because I new I had that ace up my sleeve; that at the push of a button I could become the Angel of Death fearing nothing. I could wade through enemies to revive fallen teammates or run into a crowd to draw fire. But...alas, I can no longer do these things. I have to worry about poison, Disruptors, knock-back and getting chipped to death. I fear I'll have to pack my Rhino frame up never to be used again. He deserved better than this unceremonious relegation into obsoleteness. Though, he shall always be remembered fondly.

 

Secondly, I think more importantly, the increased cost of getting new weapons is problematic. I'm not sure that the change over to blueprints is new player friendly. It might create an unnecessary obstacle in the early advancement of new players. I know, for me personally, first thing I want to do when I start playing a new game is try out as many guns as I can to find what works for me. And...if other players are like me, they might find having to wait to farm materials and the forge new weapons a bit daunting. Or perhaps not even worth their time. But then again, what do I know? You guys have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do, I could be completely wrong.

 

On a final note, I would like to thank you, the staff of DE for being so cool. Being so involved in the community and giving us a chance to voice our opinions. I know a lot of it comes off as whining...and...some of it is...I even did some here...but the fact you guys take the time to interact with players is so very cool. It isn't like most forums where you maybe might get an answer if the planets align just right as the clock strikes midnight. And that is the coolest thing. I'd also like to thank you for the dedicated hard work you do to make improvements to the game. I've never seen a company address problems so quickly. Especially in a free-to-play game. It's simply remarkable. I don't always agree with what you do, but I know that you have our best interest at heart. But seriously, please “unfix” Rhino.

 

Thanks.

^This guy is full of class and, thus, also WIN!

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

[forest_spirit]

Having a character be invincible is stupid, I am glad they changed Iron Skin so it isn't broken.

Charging BP for weapons is maybe not the best choice. Increase their credit price, maybe? Burston - instead of BP, make is 35,000 credits instead of 12000

[BloodEmperor]

Invincible is stupid, Invincibility breaks a game etc

nice when facing mobs that kill u ONE HIT when ur not OP

high damage needs a tank that can take this high damage and the damage output on many missions gets incredibly high and what is the point in taking risks when u get nothing from it

mod drop rate and rarity are on Gaia and Casta; Kiliken and Outer Terminus; Io and Palus almost the same

these nerfs only made our enemies even more OP than they already are

[Epicfacepalm]

wow at these changes. I now remember why I hate F2P games.

And after a few games (each game) my warframe client keeps crashing/non-responsive. I can't even test out the Rhino warframe....

I can see a sh*tload of hotfixes released within a few days.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Epicfacepalm

[DavidSenjaya]

Yes Vauban

[NalkorRN]

Having a character be invincible is stupid, I am glad they changed Iron Skin so it isn't broken.

Charging BP for weapons is maybe not the best choice. Increase their credit price, maybe? Burston - instead of BP, make is 35,000 credits instead of 12000

I hope you rally behind getting Energy Vampire+Link for Trinity nerfed. Rhino still had to get energy orb drops or hope Trinity was a teammate (who would then outclass in Tanking aside from Stalker encounters), but Trinity, the most support-based warframe is now the outright best at Tanking, hands down.

By the way, I don't want Energy Vampire+Link nerfed, and I main a Rhino (read: I want IS back to God-mode).

[Zurion]

What are "Operation Kills"?

At first I thought they were the kills from the Fusion Moa Operation, but I didn't participate cause I made my account one day before it started, and I still have 23 Operation Kills.

Edited May 18, 2013 by cristimirt

[hertoggrolsh]

to bad that you guys turned the rhino from a tank warframe to a slow and average warframe. i used to like the rhino but now it is weak.

[c00ki3s]

Fix a lot of problems and a lot of useful stuff , and the cooking knife looks GREAT :)

[GreenRebel]

There is nothing good to buy in the market anymore... well, except Lex.

 

That is just ridiculous, the only thing remaining now is to delete Market and create two separate sections instead: Platinum and Blueprints, then toss all existing stuff into them - that would be more fair, since there is no alternative to farming and dontaing anymore.

[Daener]

Only I think that Vauban 3 skill is better that Rhino ult??

[Caelen]

I like most of this update. All the fixes, new frame, some of the other changes.

 

I don't like the change to Rhino. Plenty of others have gone on about it, so I won't restate what's been said.

 

I really don't like the change in the market. I agree with the general change in direction, with more things at the blueprint level, but there should still be some credit options. Credit weapons give new players more variety to get into the game with, while giving older players reliable fallback options that don't have a 12+ hour wait.

 

Pistols for credits: 4 options. Starter Lato, Aklato, Sicarus, and Lex. A good setup. It provides variety for a new player while still keeping most things at the blueprint level. The Lex isn't quite worth 50,000 credits, but it's only marginally overpriced for what you get.

 

Rifles for credits: 3 options. Starter MK-1, Strun, and Braton. A mediocre setup. The Strun is ridiculously overpriced for what you get. The overall setup provides some variety, but it's lacking a long range weapon. The Latron or Snipetron should be returned to the credit weapon list to make up for this.

 

Melee for credits: 0 options. What in the world are you thinking, DE? The Skana, at the very least, should be available for credits. It's a starter weapon. The Dual Skana should also be available for credits, given that it's Skanas. New players need an easier way to test out at least something melee. Older players need a weapon they can reliably fall back on if they try something that doesn't work.

[Clavicus]

What are "Operation Kills"?

At first I thought they were the kills from the Fusion Moa Operation, but I didn't participate cause I made my account one day before it started, and I still have 23 Operation Kills.

I think operation kills are kills from Vauban's traps. Edited May 18, 2013 by Clavicus

[Aggh]

The Skana is now blueprint only...

And even it has alloy plate in the crafting cost :|

[fishworshipper]

Sums it up nicely.

[fishworshipper]

Having a character be invincible is stupid, I am glad they changed Iron Skin so it isn't broken.

Charging BP for weapons is maybe not the best choice. Increase their credit price, maybe? Burston - instead of BP, make is 35,000 credits instead of 12000

No, it isn't.

Being invincible was the ONLY saving grace for Rhino, right now he's just worthless, outtanked by Ember, Trinity, Nyx, Vauban, Frost...

AND HE'S THE @(*()$ TANK WARFRAME.

[gell]

The pricing is pretty bad now, not that it directly affects me much.

 

I know DE said they aren't trying to copy other F2P games, but there is something to be learned from them. Once very smart aspect of F2P games is that they'll give you something to buy early on to reinforce how to spend. That means for WF, you need to give the player something desirable early to spend credits on, and something to spend platinum on. If possible, you'll reinforce this spending every so often.

 

As an example, WF has the foundry. While you're crafting something, there is the rush option. In another game I play, there is a similar crafting system, with a rush option. The difference is that their rush option becomes free in the last 5 minutes. The button is still a "spend platinum" style button, but the cost is nothing. It reinforces the idea that you can spend money every time you craft something, without actually paying any plat for it. It also doesn't hit the player over the head with it because it's not a pop up or anything, so it can be ignored. Make the last 5-10 minutes of rushing free, so that reinforces spending to all players. Many people will use this option.

 

As for weapon pricing, you need to give the early players a weapon for each slot to spend a small amount of credits or plat on. Giving them this option quickly gives them the satisfaction of buying something, and doing this 3 times early on will remind them. I don't mind that you made weapons more expensive, as you said that was closed beta pricing. Okay. But you still need inexpensive things for a new player to work toward and earn within just 1-2 levels. It really has to be that fast (so make one weapon only 5000 credits). I know it seems so cheap, but DE, you already know you how you designed the MK1-Braton. It's clearly an underpowered weapon made to be replaced by the Braton. If you need to justify a super cheapy weapon, then make the MK1 a tad weaker and introduce an MK2 and make that super cheap.

 

I know this post sounds a little heady and underhanded, or like I'm asking you to treat players like you have to condition them, but really it's all human nature to respond to these things. As long as you don't beat players over the head with this stuff, it should help them. The same has applied to game tutorials. Instead of a ton of messages of how to do things, you give them the option to do it, but give them a compelling reason to do it, such as jumping over an enemy that rolls on the ground, teaching you that jumping over them is much more desirable than running into them with your face.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Like I said before, each power has it's own purpose in different situations. You're not going to be using them to kill everything in a mission. Most of your kills should be from your weapons.

Sure. That doesn't change the fact that Rhino's skills are pretty terrible though. His skills do the same thing that other skills do, except even more poorly.

 

Excal may be able to take out 4+ foes with ease, but they have to be very close together in a line, and his only defense skill is an aoe blind.

An AOE blind which is flat out better in nearly every respect compared to radial blast on account of having higher duration, higher range, and lower energy cost. As far as CC goes, blind is much better than blast.

 

Frost's Snowglobe is only helpful on ranged targets, it may slow those inside the globe but it also blocks ally fire from going into the globe along with enemy fire.

And? It slows targets inside, letting you chop them up with your scindo. It keeps you from getting shot. Now, with what happened to IS, it's one of the few skills that actually provides useful protection in high level content.

 

What made Iron Skin so overpowered was pretty much what you said about it, it granted full immunity to damage and control effects with a spammable cost. Invincibility in any game is pretty overpowered, in most games that have it it only lasts 3-5 seconds, or wasn't immune to CC effects, but in Rhino's case, it lasted about 10 seconds at lv 3, even longer with a duration mod with immunity to everything. THAT is overpowered. You can say what you want about his other powers, it doesn't change the fact Iron Skin was blatantly overpowered.

So make it not spammable. That's literally all you need. Rhino's energy pool sucks, make it cost 75 or 100. Bam, suddenly it's not spammable.

 

 

It's pretty simple really...if you don't like the powers on one warframe then that warframe's playstyle may not be for you.

 

I've said my 2 cents on the matter, that's it from me. D:

That's just it. I liked Rhino's playstyle. I was able to run in and save my teammates when they went downed. I was able to lock down a whole approach of toxic ancients with my scindo. It felt awesome. Rhino's other abilities were generally useless, but that's okay, because I could pop IS and wade in to battle with my huge axe.

[spawnkiller1001]

I Love You :heart: and :kiss: :D

[EvilRussianBear]

Today after taking a shot break from gaming decided to hop on Warframe and got into the community teamspeak.

So what do I hear? ...

"Hey Russian, did you see the new warframe? is amazing.... oh and also you're warframe invincibility has been nerfed"

Rushed to the forums, read about 10 pages with so many people complaining about the nerf already.

You left me no choice dear devs, first... the shotguns, now the Rhino. For a dedicated Rhino player this is one hell of a stab in the back, I was aniticipating a nerf in time because good things can't last for long in the game world.

No rework on the 3nd and 4th skills.

And the new warframe apperently does everything that Rhino does but only better.

All I ever wanted is to go heavy melee brawler, and now I see this.... Well 48 hours of effors just burned to ashes....

Edited May 18, 2013 by EvilRussianBear

[jrkong]

Rhino nerf... GOD DANG IT! &%@* RAGEQUIT! Vauban has a cheaper version of Rhino stomp! Rhino's speed nerf has now made him a useless warframe...

Edited May 18, 2013 by jrkong

[SFkenny]

Anything from DE about community reaction to marketplace blueprint grinding? I was about to buy the Boar but held off because of other stuff I wanted to craft. Now the damn boar requires a BP grind. I'm trying to use the materials for other warframes. Increasing the grind decreases my desire to play, because I've been grinding for the Banshee helmet for a month and keep turning up empty. I've wound up getting parts for OTHER warframes (Trinity and Volt) faster than Banshee's last Helmet part.

I can't imagine how pissed newbies coming into the game must be. Heck, I even loaded into a Mercury server with one and said it's a great time to jump into Warframe because the new frame was coming and Update 8's new tiles/Dojos looked amazing. Now imagine how much of an A****** I must look like to this noob, because the market comes along and adds a S#&$ton of grinding to getting a usable weapon like the Strun.

[The_Traitor_Executioner]

Why  nerf the Iron Skin ability?  Rhino is a tank.  His role is to smash his way through the enemy's defense.  This will severely cripple his ability to do so.  

[The_Traitor_Executioner]

Also, 75k credits just for the Strun?  Are you serious?  I understand that the warframe team is here to make a profit, and I support them for making a great game, but this is just shameless money grubbing.  

[Xafei]

I can't imagine how &!$$ed newbies coming into the game must be.

 

I just started playing after the update because i watched a friend of mine playing a few hours before that, when i got home and saw i cannot buy any melee weapons via credits i felt a bit... well #*($%%@. I don't know DE so i hope they change it back ( maybe even doubling/tripling/quadrupling the credit-prices) so it doesn't feel like a Pay-to-Win or Pay-to-grind-like-hell-from-the-start game. I will give them the chance until 8.0 if they don't adjust it they lose me and many others aswell. (A few people I know uninstalled alrdy, sadly.)