Tubmen Event: Tenno Mercs Get Rewards, What About The Loyal?

[Saint_Tan]

Hey Warframers (and DE),

 

A lot has been said about this event - I feel it is largely in the "positive" column. 

 

(I.E. - Play a brand new mission, on a new tile set, and come away with bonus cores/credits/gear AND a cool new weapon - FREE.  Awesome!!!)

 

My question (not a complaint) is:

 

What about those of us who were loyal to a singular cause all throughout (whether it was Nef or Alad)?

 

Day 1 - Alad supporters slaughtered Nef's forces.  Then...

 

Suddenly, the lure of better battle pay flip-flopped the proportions (%s) so that Nef is dominating.  Turncoats clearly abound...

 

I don't have a problem if other Tenno choose to be mercenaries to the highest bidder (it is just a game).  But...

 

The rewards for being fickle are obvious (25 Gold Cores vs. 20 Silver Cores...).  But what about those of us that REMAIN LOYAL to a single side - regardless of the battle sway percentages?

 

I have remained loyal since day one of this conflict (in this fictitious world, that has no "real world' repercussions).  I have accepted the 'lesser' reward for doing so.  Maybe it is for game 'fluff' outcome.  Maybe it is my own moral code entering into the digital realm.

 

Regardless, the daily gains of the flip-flopping mercenaries are obvious (better daily rewards).  I stress DAILY.

 

SO...

 

At the end of the Event, I would REALLY like it if DE gave some sort of bonus reward (anything) to those of us, who did not abandon ship just because bigger $ was waived at us.

 

I mean, loyalty to a cause, when so many are not, should stand for something.  Right?

 

(I know, some players may feel, DE should ANNOUNCE such procedures prior, so players know where they stand.  But Real World or Warframe, shouldn't real/digital loyalty be like common sense? 

 

Either you have it or you don't.

 

Just a thought. 

 

Which ever side you are on, keep up the good fight! 

 

And for those killing for the highest bidder: I get it.  Enjoy your Warframe time as you see fit.

 

Peace and Warframe...

 

[Phatose]

Yeah, you should get a big sign that says "I'm loyal to Nef Anyo, this is sure to turn out well".   Or maybe "I'm loyal to Alad V while he had an active Death mark on me! Go Team Well-thought-out-planning!"

[MrPie5]

Loyalty? These men are our enemies. We owe them no loyalty.
My loyalty lies with the Tenno, and being bribed by one of our enemies to hurt another of our enemies will further that cause.

Edited May 16, 2015 by MrPie5

[SSC-47]

The only two Nef missions I've run were for the reactor and the Catalyst everything else has been for Alad.

[Omni_Omega]

Loyalty doesn't come with a free slot and built in catalyst.

[Saint_Tan]

@MrPie5 and Omni_Omega,

 

Hehe - I hear you.

 

But...

 

If the almighty dollar/rare cores can so easily sway the majority, then why even give us a choice of sides in the first place for this Event?

 

Just say: "Here are the best rewards possible - go to it!"

 

I.E. - Why not just only give us the one side to support that pays the best?

 

But they did give us a choice.

 

And for those that choose the "losing' side seeing 85% to 15% day after day, but going for it anyway, there should be some sort of 'pat-on-the-back' by Alad to those that did not abandon his cause, and stayed true.

 

This goes beyond the fluff of the game, but into the psyche of the player.

 

Otherwise, there is ZERO reason to side with anyone than the current winner.

 

If the Flip-Floppers come out unscathed and the Never-Say-Die are burned time and time again (reward wise) then this just reinforces that this is nothing more than an inconsequential video game. 

 

And maybe (rather, yes) it is!

 

But with the hours and interest I have invested, I had hoped for more.

 

But then again, maybe I am taking this far too seriously...

[Phatose]

It's a bad idea.  They had a very similar system setup - on the level of competeing clans - in Gradivus.  Switching sides hurt your clans ranking, so people in competitive clans couldn't realistically switch after they picked a side.  And since the competitive clans wield a huge portion of the community's grinding power, it meant that the Grineer win in that event was assured in the first battle.

 

Essentially, it makes the first choice made trump all others.  That's a poor way to hold an event if you want the outcome to be interesting - or at least not a foregone conclusion - until the very end.  And you're going to drive down participation in an event where players decide the outcome if the outcome is basically decided on the first round.

[ranks21]

this event is already won by the devs for nef, those like myself who is going for the karak and has stayed true to the cause, have seen nothing but unfairness when it comes to which side always has the better reward. the only time both sides had  rewards of equal value was the very first one.

 

 now I have given up on this event because the winner has already been decided because of unfair advantages.

Edited May 16, 2015 by ranks21

[Saint_Tan]

@Phatose,

 

Well spoken, and totally agree.

 

However...

 

The outcome is little different from a 'foregone conclusion' if one side's rewards are VASTLY and continually superior to the other's sides stated rewards.

 

End result is the same: one side dominates, with very little back and forth.

 

Interesting and 'involving' would be the conflict constantly going back-and-forth within a few %s of each other. 

 

But the graph/curve on this Event has been rather liner after day one...

[Phatose]

Funny, the Nef backers were saying the exact same thing when this event started.  How Alad got the more popular weapons, and thus had an unfair advantage.

 

Amusing.   Everyone thinks the deck is unfairly stacked, but no one can agree on who it's unfairly stacked in favor of.

 

 

@Phatose,

 

Well spoken, and totally agree.

 

However...

 

The outcome is little different from a 'foregone conclusion' if one side's rewards are VASTLY and continually superior to the other's sides stated rewards.

 

End result is the same: one side dominates, with very little back and forth.

 

Interesting and 'involving' would be the conflict constantly going back-and-forth within a few %s of each other. 

 

But the graph/curve on this Event has been rather liner after day one...

 

It went from a 0-5 sweep to an 8-8 tie.  In my book, that's going back and forth - from a foregone conclusion pointed to by the 0-5 sweep at the beginning to a tie currently that looks about to switch to a 9-8 lead to the side that was getting wiped out.

 

That's not exactly one side dominating. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Phatose

[Saint_Tan]

Back at ya Phatose:

 

First off - Howdy, Fellow Founder...

 

Ley me clarify on a couple of points:

 

By back and forth - I meant 2 things -

 

 

A) Value of rewards - Why after losing day after day, are Alad's rewards always the 'worse' choice?

B) a different winner each day - not a route by one side for 3 days in a row.

 

In any Event (no pun intended), I'm glad we can talk this out and keep it civil.  We're all Tenno fighting on the same side after all.

 

Just...maybe not for the same cause...heeh.

[R34LM]

Sorry OP, but this dead horse has been beaten for a good few days now. Just be happy you get SOMETHING, rather than nothing.

[Saint_Tan]

Hey R34lm

 

I'm certainly not complaining about that.  I am happy to be getting a weapon at the end of it all.

 

My point is:

 

Staying true to one side (for fluff or otherwise) seems to be a fools errand.  I WANT to fight for one side only, but there are vastly inferior dividends for such actions.

 

So I am just stating it would be NICE, IF, supporting a singular side (which ever one) earned a player a specific extra little something.  Since 'my side' is missing out on all sorts of rare cores and the like, I feel this a little greater I suppose.

 

Can't my digital sacrifice be rewarded by Mr. Alad V one way or another?

 

Maybe...?

[Phatose]

Back at ya Phatose:

 

First off - Howdy, Fellow Founder...

 

Ley me clarify on a couple of points:

 

By back and forth - I meant 2 things -

 

 

A) Value of rewards - Why after losing day after day, are Alad's rewards always the 'worse' choice?

B) a different winner each day - not a route by one side for 3 days in a row.

 

In any Event (no pun intended), I'm glad we can talk this out and keep it civil.  We're all Tenno fighting on the same side after all.

 

Just...maybe not for the same cause...heeh.

 

Oh, it's the same cause.  In the end, all this Nef/Alad squabbling is just a debate over which method is best to screw Tyl Regor.  Another amusing part of this event, since everyone seems to like Tyl better then either Alad or Nef, but we're all gonna blow up his research anyway.

 

 

Alad's rewards were worse simply because he was still winning on the whole.  That's how DE explained conflict rewards favoring the losing side, and it would seem to apply here.  Alad's never gotten the losing side bonus - simply because he's never been actually losing.

 

Assuming Nef takes this round and it puts him ahead, the same feedback mechanism will start favoring Alad.  Should be interesting.

 

 

The thing about is we have negative feedback - basically anti-loyalty - because we actually need it to keep things interesting.  Loyalty actually has a built-in advantage - it maximizes your net effect on the overall community reward, and it actually requires the least amount of effort if your goal is to get things done quickly and easily.  Switching sides reduces your total, thus every switch increases the number of runs you have to do to get the final reward by 2 - the switch mission, and a second mission to get you back to +4.  For people who can play a lot, that's not a big deal.  However, a fair portion of the community has limited playing time, and those extra 2 missions are cost that has to be wagered. 

[R34LM]

Hey R34lm

 

I'm certainly not complaining about that.  I am happy to be getting a weapon at the end of it all.

 

My point is:

 

Staying true to one side (for fluff or otherwise) seems to be a fools errand.  I WANT to fight for one side only, but there are vastly inferior dividends for such actions.

 

So I am just stating it would be NICE, IF, supporting a singular side (which ever one) earned a player a specific extra little something.  Since 'my side' is missing out on all sorts of rare cores and the like, I feel this a little greater I suppose.

 

Can't my digital sacrifice be rewarded by Mr. Alad V one way or another?

 

Maybe...?

 

What I am reading is that you want a bit more recognition for staying loyal to the moral code, rather than being tantalized by the other team's offer, which is certainly commendable. However, given the game's track record, something like that will just not happen.

 

To be honest, in a game where it is all about grinding for the reward, it is indeed a fools errand.

[PhillipJokar]

Loyalty would be accepting the sacrifice of no reward and not participating in the event at all, as both sides have done terrible things to the Tenno.

[Dantayeule]

Hey Warframers (and DE),

 

A lot has been said about this event - I feel it is largely in the "positive" column. 

 

(I.E. - Play a brand new mission, on a new tile set, and come away with bonus cores/credits/gear AND a cool new weapon - FREE.  Awesome!!!)

 

My question (not a complaint) is:

 

What about those of us who were loyal to a singular cause all throughout (whether it was Nef or Alad)?

 

Day 1 - Alad supporters slaughtered Nef's forces.  Then...

 

Suddenly, the lure of better battle pay flip-flopped the proportions (%s) so that Nef is dominating.  Turncoats clearly abound...

 

I don't have a problem if other Tenno choose to be mercenaries to the highest bidder (it is just a game).  But...

 

The rewards for being fickle are obvious (25 Gold Cores vs. 20 Silver Cores...).  But what about those of us that REMAIN LOYAL to a single side - regardless of the battle sway percentages?

 

I have remained loyal since day one of this conflict (in this fictitious world, that has no "real world' repercussions).  I have accepted the 'lesser' reward for doing so.  Maybe it is for game 'fluff' outcome.  Maybe it is my own moral code entering into the digital realm.

 

Regardless, the daily gains of the flip-flopping mercenaries are obvious (better daily rewards).  I stress DAILY.

 

SO...

 

At the end of the Event, I would REALLY like it if DE gave some sort of bonus reward (anything) to those of us, who did not abandon ship just because bigger $ was waived at us.

 

I mean, loyalty to a cause, when so many are not, should stand for something.  Right?

 

(I know, some players may feel, DE should ANNOUNCE such procedures prior, so players know where they stand.  But Real World or Warframe, shouldn't real/digital loyalty be like common sense? 

 

Either you have it or you don't.

 

Just a thought. 

 

Which ever side you are on, keep up the good fight! 

 

And for those killing for the highest bidder: I get it.  Enjoy your Warframe time as you see fit.

 

Peace and Warframe...

 

Despite your efforts, your opening post reeks of comtempt for players who choose to (literally) play both sides. I bold-faced some text that clearly shows this. The words you used are pretty harsh and telling.

 

What this does is introduce another dynamic element to the event so that it's not only the majority who wants a particular weapon that automatically wins. The bit of chaos produced by the attrait of better gains can possibly sway the results of the event. Chaos is unpredictable like that.

 

As to loyalty as you put it... It's completely absurd. Loyal to your friends, clan, alliance: reasonable. Loyal to lore, also reasonable. But to a lesser-evil fictional character's cause... err, your concept of loyalty just slipped into fanatism.

 

If you don't wanna take advantage of the other sides rewards, because you feel like you're 'cheating' on your chosen side, that's on you and you've made it clear you're aware of that.

 

Best you 'loyalty' deserves is a trophy maybe: 'Vegan all the way!' or  'All the way to the Void!'

[Saint_Tan]

Hey Dantayeule,

 

I was never intending to reek of contempt.  This is a computer game - I really don't care about OTHERS choices - but rather value my OWN.  Still, I add to these forums for the pleasure and camaraderie - not to start stirring up obvious trouble.

 

I agree with your second paragraph about chaos.

 

By Loyalty, I think you are mistaken me for some sort of schizoid-whaco.  Of course, I use such serious terms in fun/fantasy game-land weight.

 

This post is not meant to be serious like a medical emergency.  But rather a fun debate about virtual 'fairness' and just to talk Warframe in general.

 

And, yes, I would happily accept a trophy for my Dojo.  Just something to make up for all the Rare 25 Core packs I sacrificed to fight for a 'losing side'.

 

Though, if at the end of it all, we get the Wraith Karak - all is forgiven!!!  HEHEEHEHEHEHEH

 

All the best guys...

[Post_Scriptum]

If there is to be a 'reward' for staying loyal

An extra transmission saying thank you or whatever would suffice(at least for me)

I dont even care about the actual 'thank you', I just enjoy seeing the portraits and dialogues on transmissions

The other side cursing at me via transmission would suffice too xD

Edited May 16, 2015 by Post_Scriptum

[fatpig84]

A reward for staying loyal ?

Minimum 8/4 for a certain side.

 

Get another badge or sigil.

And an extra video.

 

That is good enough.

[Hadez239]

give us extra rewards for royslty

[NocturneOfSolace]

Hey Warframers (and DE),

 

A lot has been said about this event - I feel it is largely in the "positive" column. 

 

(I.E. - Play a brand new mission, on a new tile set, and come away with bonus cores/credits/gear AND a cool new weapon - FREE.  Awesome!!!)

 

My question (not a complaint) is:

 

What about those of us who were loyal to a singular cause all throughout (whether it was Nef or Alad)?

 

Day 1 - Alad supporters slaughtered Nef's forces.  Then...

 

Suddenly, the lure of better battle pay flip-flopped the proportions (%s) so that Nef is dominating.  Turncoats clearly abound...

 

I don't have a problem if other Tenno choose to be mercenaries to the highest bidder (it is just a game).  But...

 

The rewards for being fickle are obvious (25 Gold Cores vs. 20 Silver Cores...).  But what about those of us that REMAIN LOYAL to a single side - regardless of the battle sway percentages?

 

I have remained loyal since day one of this conflict (in this fictitious world, that has no "real world' repercussions).  I have accepted the 'lesser' reward for doing so.  Maybe it is for game 'fluff' outcome.  Maybe it is my own moral code entering into the digital realm.

 

Regardless, the daily gains of the flip-flopping mercenaries are obvious (better daily rewards).  I stress DAILY.

 

SO...

 

At the end of the Event, I would REALLY like it if DE gave some sort of bonus reward (anything) to those of us, who did not abandon ship just because bigger $ was waived at us.

 

I mean, loyalty to a cause, when so many are not, should stand for something.  Right?

 

(I know, some players may feel, DE should ANNOUNCE such procedures prior, so players know where they stand.  But Real World or Warframe, shouldn't real/digital loyalty be like common sense? 

 

Either you have it or you don't.

 

Just a thought. 

 

Which ever side you are on, keep up the good fight! 

 

And for those killing for the highest bidder: I get it.  Enjoy your Warframe time as you see fit.

 

Peace and Warframe...

It's sort of a moot point, because if you're NOT loyal, you LOSE event points

So you're punished if you're a turncoat

Edited May 16, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace

[Twilight053]

Nef is "paying" the Tenno to betray Alad.

 

No one is "paying" the Tenno to be loyal.

[S3EK3R]

Which side we choose has no consequence. Tyl Regor's experiment is destroyed, and that's the main cause for me. I hate both Alad and Nef.

[Haukai]

The problem I see with your request here OP, is that you're asking a reward for remaining loyal. But loyal to whom?

Unless I'm mistaken, you've been entirely siding with Alad V, which in itself is a betrayal to other Tennos because of how much he's made us suffer.
Just look at what he's done to the Tennos that ended up becoming Valkyr through torture and dissection.

Still, I do get your point, we're fighting for a cause rather than just one individual, but we're still helping that one individual out, and I don't think there should be any special reward for remaining loyal to one of our greatest enemies.

Now, don't believe I think any less of the Tennos who side for Alad V, most players don't even give a flippin' fawk about the lore, they just want the weapon, or have a different view on this whole thing.