Alloy, Always Alloy

[NalkorRN]

...you're saying the Ember I took two weeks to craft was worth twenty bucks?  They really do need to fix their platinum pricing o_o

Something like that I think. I never bought any platinum at all, so I'm just going off what I've heard on similar threads.

[ZWarhammer]

Agreed. I'v been playing this game for ever a month now and it pains me to see that i still have to be farming for materials 24/7.

Why not add materials to more stuff as rewards ? like end of a mission reward 100 alloy the trollballs dropping alloy also a good idea, how about some alerts with materials ? or how about some log in reward materials ? still better than 20 shotgun ammo boxes e.e

Edited May 19, 2013 by ZWarhammer

[NalkorRN]

Agreed. I'v been playing this game for ever a month now and it pains me to see that i still have to be farming for materials 24/7.

Why not add materials to more stuff as rewards ? like end of a mission reward 100 alloy the trollballs dropping alloy also a good idea, how about some alerts with materials ? or how about some log in reward materials ? still better than 20 shotgun ammo boxes e.e

Every trollball always drops 10-15 alloy plates (aside from that grineer boss. Suddenly, people are happy to see Rollers.

[Zeddypanda]

Patch notes from hell:

-Every craft now requires 350 Roller cores.

-Grineer rollers have a 10% chance of dropping 1 roller core.

[Kohira]

Patch notes from hell:

-Every craft now requires 350 Roller cores.

-Grineer rollers have a 10% chance of dropping 1 roller core.

Grineer rollers have a 90% chance of eating 200 alloy plate when killed. And a 50% chance of destroying one random item in your inventory.

[Vabla]

Grineer rollers have a 90% chance of eating 200 alloy plate when killed. And a 50% chance of destroying one random item in your inventory.

 - Grineer rollers now do damage to your resource pool and not shields/hp.

 - Weapons and warframes now have durability. There is currently no way of restoring durability.

 - New unit: MOA Disintegrator.

 - MOA Disintegrator deals damage to your equipped weapons and warframe.

 - New unit: Ancient Phaser.

 - Ancient Phasers are invisible while not attacking.

 - Ancient Phaser can destroy or delevel a random mod from your inventory.

[Kohira]

This was my favorite and the most game breaking one:

 - Weapons and warframes now have durability. There is currently no way of restoring durability.

[Zeddypanda]

-We have now added a new enemy: Rolling disruptors. They are not tied to a faction and will appear everywhere.

-Please welcome their cousins: Ammo-eaters. They are like rollers, but they can fly.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Zeddypanda

[Xylia]

Shame most newbies will probably give up before they get there.

 

Shame many people will get so tired of World of Kistecraft, they'll just simply quit long before they ever farm the thousands of Alloy Plate needed to make the weapons/warframes/etc.

[SynthReBorn]

So because you'd rather not farm for alloy which quite frankly isn't that difficult a resource to farm, you'd rather they lower the requirement for that material on all recipes?  That sounds like laziness/annoyance at doing something that isn't difficult to do.

 

Also Kiste isn't the end all be all for alloy drops, there are plenty of areas on other planets that can net you alloy.  It may or may not be the same amount as a Kiste run potentially but it's still an option.  Not to mention that you also have boss runs on those said planets as well.  There isn't always a "get rich quick scheme" to everything, and sometimes you have to put in a little more work into it.  

 

Another thing that people seem upset about is that we're suppose to be getting alert missions with material drops attached, but that they aren't here yet.  Here's the thing to pay attention to: "not yet," as in it's a feature that's not available yet but is on it's way, which by how the new alloy requirements are looking makes more sense.  Patience please.

 

If you don't want to farm then give in and purchase platinum for your items, or you could just farm.  Point is you have options, now while I too don't agree with some of the amounts of alloy that is required for some of the weapons, the fact of the matter is that it's obtainable.  And sitting here and generally being upset that something costs a certain amount of a resource that we think is somewhat unreasonable, could be spent gathering it instead.  

 

P.S. 

Inb4 platinum costs are too high/platinum-related-gripe, I can ascertain it's that way because you're essentially paying for a convenience, having done no work on your end besides typing credit card information into a box and hitting accept, you're getting an item dropped into your lap as opposed to the ones that put forth the effort/time to farm the necessary materials, and build it.  And no, the whole alloy situation isn't meant to be a ploy to make you use the platinum system either.  Which is another idea that's floating around that I just don't understand.  Let me put this out there, no one is making you buy platinum to satisfy your in-game needs but you and only you.  I dunno where the idea started that players feel like they "have" to buy platinum because the truth is that you don't.  Why you may ask?  Because you can just play the game and work for your items!  

[ValhaHazred]

how about some alerts with materials ? or how about some log in reward materials ? still better than 20 shotgun ammo boxes e.e

The devs said they where going to do just that in a previous livesteam, although I don't remember which one. Hopefully they haven't changed their minds.

[Luzoto]

So because you'd rather not farm for alloy which quite frankly isn't that difficult a resource to farm, you'd rather they lower the requirement for that material on all recipes?  That sounds like laziness/annoyance at doing something that isn't difficult to do.

 

Also Kiste isn't the end all be all for alloy drops, there are plenty of areas on other planets that can net you alloy.  It may or may not be the same amount as a Kiste run potentially but it's still an option.  Not to mention that you also have boss runs on those said planets as well.  There isn't always a "get rich quick scheme" to everything, and sometimes you have to put in a little more work into it.  

 

Another thing that people seem upset about is that we're suppose to be getting alert missions with material drops attached, but that they aren't here yet.  Here's the thing to pay attention to: "not yet," as in it's a feature that's not available yet but is on it's way, which by how the new alloy requirements are looking makes more sense.  Patience please.

 

If you don't want to farm then give in and purchase platinum for your items, or you could just farm.  Point is you have options, now while I too don't agree with some of the amounts of alloy that is required for some of the weapons, the fact of the matter is that it's obtainable.  And sitting here and generally being upset that something costs a certain amount of a resource that we think is somewhat unreasonable, could be spent gathering it instead.  

 

P.S. 

Inb4 platinum costs are too high/platinum-related-gripe, I can ascertain it's that way because you're essentially paying for a convenience, having done no work on your end besides typing credit card information into a box and hitting accept, you're getting an item dropped into your lap as opposed to the ones that put forth the effort/time to farm the necessary materials, and build it.  And no, the whole alloy situation isn't meant to be a ploy to make you use the platinum system either.  Which is another idea that's floating around that I just don't understand.  Let me put this out there, no one is making you buy platinum to satisfy your in-game needs but you and only you.  I dunno where the idea started that players feel like they "have" to buy platinum because the truth is that you don't.  Why you may ask?  Because you can just play the game and work for your items!  

And this, my friends, is exactly what killed Brick-Force.  Are you sure you're looking at the perspective of a casual player, or a beginner?  I don't know about you, but alloy plate is relatively difficult for me to farm considering that I only have a level thirty no-potato Loki with average weapons and I've kinda been playing for four weeks with more game time each day than the average casual player.  I'll deal with the ridiculous alloy if I must, but a lot more players would be satisfied if they rebalanced the drop rate and/or made more ways to obtain it.  If the people don't agree, they'll leave the game, which means DE won't be making much of a profit without going the Pay2Win route and relying on the seriously hardcore fans.

Oh, by the way, we're not complaining about the ludicrous prices because we feel like we have to buy platinum to get through the game.  It took me two weeks total for everything to make an Ember, and I'm rather shocked that it only took that much effort for something worth twenty bucks.  Not exactly something that would make DE a lot of money.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Luzoto

[Grilleds]

I've had 5 friends quit this game due to how many hoops they have to jump through to get new Warframes and weapons, as well as how much money they would have to spend to avoid doing that. People quitting doesn't do either DE or the community any good. Do not be fooled by this game's early success, because if too many factors negatively contribute to player retention, this game won't remain successful.

 

The alloy plates thing... That's freaking ridiculous for new players and will scare them away from the game. Same with the market. Saying "You can also get most of that stuff for free", doesn't justify the prices in the eyes of a casual player. This hurts player retention.

 

As it is right now, anyone who recognizes a skinner box is going to be quite hesitant to play this game once they look up the requirements for the various blueprints on the wiki.

[Deost]

Welcome to Warfarm! 

 

We hope you enjoy your alloy brunches.

[SynthReBorn]

And this, my friends, is exactly what killed Brick-Force.  Are you sure you're looking at the perspective of a casual player, or a beginner?  I don't know about you, but alloy plate is relatively difficult for me to farm considering that I only have a level thirty no-potato Loki with average weapons and I've kinda been playing for four weeks with more game time each day than the average casual player.  I'll deal with the ridiculous alloy if I must, but a lot more players would be satisfied if they rebalanced the drop rate and/or made more ways to obtain it.  If the people don't agree, they'll leave the game, which means DE won't be making much of a profit without going the Pay2Win route and relying on the seriously hardcore fans.

Oh, by the way, we're not complaining about the ludicrous prices because we feel like we have to buy platinum to get through the game.  It took me two weeks total for everything to make an Ember, and I'm rather shocked that it only took that much effort for something worth twenty bucks.  Not exactly something that would make DE a lot of money.

 

Okay so according to what you've said here, the reason you can't farm is because you're using a non-potatoed frame that you chose, whose weapons are just meh?  You know what would fix that?  Farming mods, in fact farming mods while farming resources.  You say you've been playing for four weeks?  Did you expect that it was going to be ludicrously easy to obtain all the time?  You shouldn't, this game is constantly evolving(for better and for worse at times)and many things are likely to change.  The materials required for weapons before this fiasco probably made it seem like it was a bit too easy to obtain and craft, so they made it a bit more difficult to balance things out.  Not an arm-and-a-leg difficult mind you, just simply requiring a material that's of a bit rarer sort than the previous recipes had. Would you rather they make it 100-1000 of a super rare material like control modules?  At least alloy is something you can get relatively easily, from several planets with each area on that planet having the chance to drop them.  And even with the way things are now there is no need for rebalancing of drops, it's been changed for a reason(likely the update to alert missions dropping resources whenever that happens)and on top of that is still easy to do.  At this point in time everyone has an equal chance to obtain crafting materials from any source that would drop them.  Being stronger and having better equipment obviously makes this process a bit easier, and in order to do that you need to build yourself up which takes time and effort.  And in the end time is really all you're giving up, it's up to you how on much.  Put forth the effort and eventually you'll get there.  RNG can be undesirable at times but it's never completely unfair.  

[Luzoto]

Okay so according to what you've said here, the reason you can't farm is because you're using a non-potatoed frame that you chose, whose weapons are just meh?  You know what would fix that?  Farming mods, in fact farming mods while farming resources.  You say you've been playing for four weeks?  Did you expect that it was going to be ludicrously easy to obtain all the time?  You shouldn't, this game is constantly evolving(for better and for worse at times)and many things are likely to change.  The materials required for weapons before this fiasco probably made it seem like it was a bit too easy to obtain and craft, so they made it a bit more difficult to balance things out.  Not an arm-and-a-leg difficult mind you, just simply requiring a material that's of a bit rarer sort than the previous recipes had. Would you rather they make it 100-1000 of a super rare material like control modules?  At least alloy is something you can get relatively easily, from several planets with each area on that planet having the chance to drop them.  And even with the way things are now there is no need for rebalancing of drops, it's been changed for a reason(likely the update to alert missions dropping resources whenever that happens)and on top of that is still easy to do.  At this point in time everyone has an equal chance to obtain crafting materials from any source that would drop them.  Being stronger and having better equipment obviously makes this process a bit easier, and in order to do that you need to build yourself up which takes time and effort.  And in the end time is really all you're giving up, it's up to you how on much.  Put forth the effort and eventually you'll get there.  RNG can be undesirable at times but it's never completely unfair.  

The problem with the 'having multiple places to get alloy' thing is this:

Option A: Gets you 15$

Option B: Gets you 10$

Option C: Gets you 20$

People will pick the most efficient one, right?  Thus, Kiste Online.

 

Also, by four weeks, I didn't mean "ohmygawd I been playin a munth gimme everythin nao," I meant that with that kind of game time, I was hoping for more than maybe fifty alloy after playing a few hours.  I could just be really unlucky with Venera, but since I can't really play Kiste with my current weapons, I'ma be stuck with my Braton for a pretty damn long time with weapons pretty much demanding more alloy than warframes.  Sure, it's better than a number of evil MMOs out there, but according to some of the posts I've read around here, people aren't liking the new changes at all, and it's ultimately up to the player to stick around and maybe drop some money on the game or leave.

[elindred]

Crafting is cool, but axing the acquisition of new, basic weapons around farming large amounts of one slow-to-acquire resource is boring, plain and simple. There are plenty of other underused materials they could have used. 

[Halisi]

Your argument is completely invalid Synth. Using alloy plates for blueprints is fine the problem is how many blueprints use them. By the time they have enough alloy plates for their first blueprint, they will have enough of other resources to use on a different blueprint that doesn't exist. Then once we have that new weapon, if we don't like it we have to repeat that grinding process for a new one. This could upset someone to the point of quitting without giving this beautiful game a chance. Very few blueprints use rubedo the other uncommon resource, or common resources. A better solution would have been to use common resources for lower tier weapons such as the braton, burston, and strun. That way new players get introduced to the crafting system, but don't have to grind for 0-15 (or 30 for the lucky ones) alloy plates per run, for a blueprint that needs 300. The perfect example would be the Cronus. We aren't asking to be spoon fed everything in the game. But new players need more accessibility if DE expects them to stay. Also new players will only have immediate access to one of the "several planets" you said alloy plates drop from. Coming from experience No one wants to stay at one planet for a week just to get their first new weapon. This isn't korea, we don't want to sit at the computer for hours on end repeating the same thing over, and over...and over. On another note, not every one can afford to put up money for something as trivial as a game. Some people have a little something called "responsibility".

[Kobalt]

I agree with Synth on the attitude people are presenting over this...

This game is as far as free to play games go exceptional. It is a game design to encourage you to spend money for convenience. It is DE's job to find a balance for this, I think they haven't done a horrible job. The difference lies in the spectrum of gamers. Realistically, I find at max 4 hours daily to play this unless I am off and feeling the grind. I consume more alloy than most people and I am still sitting on about 5k of the stuff I have nothing to do with. I am far from what most people would consider a hardcore player and I couldn't even sink my alloy fast enough. For the record, 90+% of that alloy was not farmed on Kiste.

Kiste is a horrible farming location for alloy and the source of your problem. Your growing pains come from an mmo mainstay, the power level. How many of you have actually completed all of the possible planets given your frame level? Places like Kiste and other EXP farming areas speed your progression beyond a point of growth. You end up with a level 30 frame too quickly and none of the resources you need to expand your experience. Is this partially DE's fault design wise? Yes...BUT is it also mainly your's for seeking out and exploiting dominant strat? YES!

All of this aside, all of the complaining coming out of this thread comes before a MAJOR update which may change the way the game works...Along with the very thing your complaint is about! Everyone is saying, why not use other materials? Why are weapons and frames so attached to rubedo and alloy? Though it is as much conjecture as most of this thread is, it could be easy to surmise that the other components may play a larger role in dojo construction. Maybe DE wants to keep these pools separate so that people in clans don't have to choose between that shiny new weapon and supporting their clan. Maybe DE's introduction of resource missions and the clan vault [shared resource] would heavily effect this burden in a way that would make it feel more trivial. Maybe this is DE's way of steering new players into clans and towards the team play they had intended in the first place. The high possibility that all of this will change in the coming week make these complaints kinda moot. You can't judge what it is you are seeing with only half the picture in front of you.

Even if all of that is true the overflow of veiled entitlement on these forums is ridiculous. I read this stuff about how hard it is for people to farm alloy and wonder if we are playing the same game. Outside of the occasional bad RNG day, on any given alloy planet my runs span 40~ to 200+ per run. How a 500 or 1k alloy pricetag is supposed to hinder anyone is beyond me. Most of the time I get on to help my friends accomplish a goal and the resources just farm themselves without even feeling the grind. I think this is the part that most people are missing out on, overlapping your goals to shorten your journey while doing it in a way that doesn't make it a chore. I can tell you for sure that going to the same map over and over again was your first mistake!

To finish, the most vital components in this game to success are orokin reactors/catalysts and slots. Outside of slots, EVERYTHING in the game is obtainable with time and effort absolutely free. Even those things are dirt cheap [generally under $1-2]! Everything else you can buy with plat is the luxury of convenience! If you want to know why DE made the changes they did from the rhino to the weapons/economy, you need only take the time to read the forums. The #1 most common complaint you will find before this update was that it was all a little too easy and trivial...This complaint by players new and old. DE listened! I guess it is a sin to have a little more faith in DE as practically every change from early closed beta to now has been for the better in the long run, leading to the popularity of this MMO. Sure they have stumbles here and there, but they never really miss a step and always make up for their mistakes.

[Kiteless]

Oh, by the way, we're not complaining about the ludicrous prices because we feel like we have to buy platinum to get through the game.

 

This is imperative. I have money, and I certainly wouldn't mind spending it to unlock things, but the current prices are prohibitive, since I don't want to feel like I'm getting ripped off by putting more money into the game.

 

"Patience" and "hard work" have nothing to do with it (and if it really did, I'd spend more time doing actual work, and less time playing this game).

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I was so close to quitting this game because of the S#&$ty starter guns combined with the impassable credit walls. Then I found out about the Cronus BP and started farming that which was absolutely mindnumbingly boring. Then DE fixed the credit rewards and a whole new world opened up for me. Suddenly I could start to chain upgrades in the foundry while hunting for more stuff and leveling my gear, it was glorious...

Aaaaand now we're back to the same situation as I had back when I started. Except I'm not a new player anymore. Sure, FOR ME it's OK to grind for Alloy Plate as I have pretty much access to any high level area and a well geared team to back me up. But for new players? I can't recommend this game for new players anymore because they're going to have to spend AGES using incredibly S#&$ty gear now, not to mention that hunting for Warframes is out of the question if you don't have good gear.

I fully understand DEs need to monetize the game, but this Alloy Plate wall they threw up is just going to have them (that is, new players) quit after a few hours once they figure out that the grind requirements for this game are now ridiculous.

Edit added: (that is, new players)

Edited May 20, 2013 by Hap-muhr

[SynthReBorn]

Your argument is completely invalid Synth. Using alloy plates for blueprints is fine the problem is how many blueprints use them. By the time they have enough alloy plates for their first blueprint, they will have enough of other resources to use on a different blueprint that doesn't exist. Then once we have that new weapon, if we don't like it we have to repeat that grinding process for a new one. This could upset someone to the point of quitting without giving this beautiful game a chance. Very few blueprints use rubedo the other uncommon resource, or common resources. A better solution would have been to use common resources for lower tier weapons such as the braton, burston, and strun. That way new players get introduced to the crafting system, but don't have to grind for 0-15 (or 30 for the lucky ones) alloy plates per run, for a blueprint that needs 300. The perfect example would be the Cronus. We aren't asking to be spoon fed everything in the game. But new players need more accessibility if DE expects them to stay. Also new players will only have immediate access to one of the "several planets" you said alloy plates drop from. Coming from experience No one wants to stay at one planet for a week just to get their first new weapon. This isn't korea, we don't want to sit at the computer for hours on end repeating the same thing over, and over...and over. On another note, not every one can afford to put up money for something as trivial as a game. Some people have a little something called "responsibility".

 

I would say that it's really dependent.  I have several weapon BP's sitting in my foundry that don't have a ludicrous amount of alloy attached to it, or at all for that matter which is lucky for me I suppose.  I can understand that it's annoying to have to repeat the process to farm certain resources for weapons but that's how it goes, if that's the weapon you want to make by conscious choice then that's what you have to do.   

 

For new players this won't be a problem either, they may be in lower areas but those areas have an equal chance at dropping just as much as a "higher leveled" area would.  The difference between new players and older players is that the older players can get through levels faster so the process follows suit.  As far as the "staying at those planets for a week" argument: unless you're rushing yourself or pick up the game really fast, new players should generally spend several days in the same area.  Yes it will be slow, but you should be taking your time when you first start out.  Not saying don't play a lot, but managing what you do and learning about the game.  You can't expect as a new player to be doing runs like a much more experienced player would, that is literally impossible given that they know less about the nuances of the game, nor do they have the gear/mods/levels that a more experienced player would.  Rushing them through areas doesn't do them any good either, because they don't get to grow/progress at the intended(kind of a strong word)rate that they're "normally" suppose to.  

 

Going back to the first statement above, if these new players actively seek out and choose to make a weapon that has an alloy requirement(higher or not so much)or not, they're going to have to do exactly what everyone else is doing.  It all comes back to choice, you/they chose that it was the thing that you/they wanted.  Only at the beginning stage of the game that shouldn't even be a thought in their mind as they should focus on the equipment they were given first(even if it's terrible, but hey beginning equipment isn't suppose to be great, that's why it's beginner equipment).  But it's a choice that you/they made, and regardless of how ludicrous or not the amount of resources required that's what you're going to have to work towards.  If you/they really want it then you'll put forth the effort regardless of the process as with anything else, if it seems like it's too much then just don't make it.  Cruel?  Maybe, but the only one stopping you/them is you/them.  You never have to/should feel obligated to go through with anything you don't agree with doing, simple as that. Things shouldn't be easier when they're already easy enough, and putting in some extra effort doesn't hurt either.

 

Also never said you had to spend money on anything(again why does this topic keep coming back?).  I too am not rolling in the dough, I have bills to pay, am in a stable relationship, and have a social life outside of gaming.  Heck at most I spend maybe 2-3 hours every other day playing this and a bunch of other games as well.  In fact i've bought platinum once or twice on the reasoning that because I've spent a certain amount of time playing would spending real money be justified(dumb reasoning?  Probably, but I spent it and I did it because I wanted to do so) .

[Tyrian3k]

If I may ask a different question: What are all the other resources for? Apart from maybe rubedo there is never a shortage of any of them at all. They just accumulate indefinitely in your inventory.

It is unlikely that this will change with U8 since resource alerts will drop those superfluous resources as well and, to be honest, I expect clan bases to be bottlenecked just in the same way as the crafting in the foundry is.

 

Every game has some sort of bottleneck in their crafting system, but the one we have in Warframe is one of the most extreme ones I've ever encountered.

 

I don't mind farming materials, but I do mind the crafting system being based around just 1-2 resources.

[Grilleds]

I would say that it's really dependent.  I have several weapon BP's sitting in my foundry that don't have a ludicrous amount of alloy attached to it, or at all for that matter which is lucky for me I suppose.  I can understand that it's annoying to have to repeat the process to farm certain resources for weapons but that's how it goes, if that's the weapon you want to make by conscious choice then that's what you have to do.   

Almost every long gun that requires a blueprint requires 300-500 alloy plates now. Its inevitable that a player will eventually need the plates. There really isn't much of a choice to begin with. 

[Scudman_Alpha]

You obviously never fought against Grineer Rollers.

 

Seriously, I would apreciate if blueprints required other ressources than alloy plates. 500 for the Hek, 350 for the Rhino Thrak helmet, WTF? Meanwhile I'm sitting on 2000+ Rubedo and a few gorillion Nano Spores.

 

only that?

 

got 7000 or so nano spores,

15890 Salvage

1500 rubedo

and 6000 ferrite

 

and none shall ever be used!

 

and i have to get 300 alloy for a second bolto...back to kiste i guess :P

 

anyone think we should have the option of dismantling weapons to get resources (my idea would be if i didn't like the scindo i made just now i can dismantle it and get back all the resources i wasted on making it,saving me some gallium that i will use on another weapon)

 

if there ever is a trading system i would throw every salvage in me to get even a measly 500 alloy

Edited May 21, 2013 by Scudman_Alpha