Tyreuzs Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 How to fix Saryn: 1. Change miasma not being able anymore to have negative duration. 2. Reduce damage of the ability significantly. 3. Increase the base duration on animation(stun) heavily This way saryn wouldn't be a p4tw-frame anymore, would provide a great cc and would make her other abilities finally useful since they are duration based as well. inb4 hate by people who want warframe to remain a broken system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nah_NotReally Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Better fix. Make Miasma a timed ability that lasts as long as the proc is happening, make her 3 affect all of her weapons, no changes to her 2, give a broader target selection to her 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)LexaHex Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Inb4 on your own OP? I don't think thats how it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyreuzs Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Better fix. Make Miasma a timed ability that lasts as long as the proc is happening Isn't that exactly what i suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorWolf Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 "How to fix Saryn" you can't, because there's nothing to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nah_NotReally Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Isn't that exactly what i suggested? Nope, you suggested much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyreuzs Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 "How to fix Saryn" you can't, because there's nothing to fix. Ah of course! She is not broken in anyway. You are so right. sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 lmao at saying everyone else is wrong in your op stay classy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7ORM Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 How to fix Saryn: 1. Change miasma not being able anymore to have negative duration. 2. Reduce damage of the ability significantly. 3. Increase the base duration on animation(stun) heavily This way saryn wouldn't be a p4tw-frame anymore, would provide a great cc and would make her other abilities finally useful since they are duration based as well. inb4 hate by people who want warframe to remain a broken system. Better fix. Make Miasma a timed ability that lasts as long as the proc is happening, make her 3 affect all of her weapons, no changes to her 2, give a broader target selection to her 1. What about https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/452337-saryn-ability-changes-for-scalability/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kripnex Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) TL;DR: "Hey guys, I have a great idea on how to fix Saryn, let's nerf her into oblivion!" Haha, no. Remember how nobody used to use Saryn a while back? Well, that's the state she would be returning to if you were to take her damage away, she would become even less useful than Ember... EMBER, the frame that no other frame can currently match in uselessness, will be surpassed in its uselessness by Saryn, if that ain't catastrophic then I don't know what is. Edited July 12, 2021 by Kripnex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyreuzs Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 TL;DR: "Hey guys, I have a great idea on how to fix Saryn, let's nerf her into oblivion!" Haha, no. Remember how nobody used to use Saryn a while back? Well, that's the state she would be returning to if you were to take her damage away, she would become even less useful than Ember... EMBER, the frame that no other frame can currently match in uselessness, will be surpassed in its uselessness by Saryn, if that ain't catastrophic then I don't know what is. ... Nothing is better in endgame than a proper cc setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7grims Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 and would make her other abilities finally useful ... her other abilities are poop, thats why ppl only ultimate. ur fix would be a good reason to put her aside, forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kripnex Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) On 2015-05-26 at 1:19 AM, Tyreuzs said: ... Nothing is better in endgame than a proper cc setup. If you can't make Saryn's CC rival the current god-tier CC's that everyone uses, then it is inevitable; she will become worse than Ember. And heck, Ember actually has some decent CC and utility, but nobody cares about her because there are frames who do what she does 10 times better, so why would it be any different with Saryn? Especially since she already has a past of being ignored. Edited July 12, 2021 by Kripnex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyreuzs Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) If you can't make Saryn's CC rival the current god-tier CC's that everyone uses, then it is inevitable; she will become worse than Ember. And heck, Ember actually has some decent CC and utility, but nobody cares about her because there are frames who do what she does 10 times better, so why would it be any different with Saryn? Especially since she already has a past of being ignored. variety my friend, variety. Providing having her cc same good as other frames.(which would be with my suggestion) Edited May 25, 2015 by Tyreuzs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePredicament Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Miasma: Same damage Percentage ticks based off how many are affected (more enemies=less percentage) Enemies stunned based off duration Like above poster said, the rest of her kit NEEDS to give players the reason to build for them, right now a melee buff isn't all that worth it better to buff all her weapons, Venom's mechanic is too gimmicky and should just make targets explode anyway (like a scaling mini MPrime), and Molt aug needs to be built in and the aug needs to either confuse enemies (Seductive Copy) or force a Viral proc (Venomous Skin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexian Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Saryns strength comes from the fact that she can go negative in duration. Just like Nova is usable with negative power Strength. Removing just that factor, would be a huge nerf. The problem doesn't lie in Saryn, the problem lies in the balancing system DE currently got. Go play Saryn with a nuke build on Triton against lvl 70+ enemies. That's when she starts to get really fun and challanging and she's to be honest how she together with every other Warframe should be. The fact that enemies scale in the way they do make Warframes like Saryn/Mesa/Excalibur/Mirage/Ash butcher the star map. Change the way enemies work and scale, fix the core before changing the corners. Also Saryns problem doesn't exist in Miasma, it's the fact that her other abilities are made dull, there are those who use Venom but from my experiance and seeing other Saryns, few do. That ability is time consuming and very uneffective for that quick result you need (stun/Damage) in many situations. Also that ability might deal more time if you really put in effort on it (per energy). But that's the problem, it takes time/effort to use and when being able to use Miasma once and regen the energy used for Miasma by killing enemies, why use venom? you don't even regen your Venoms energy by using it. Molt is essentially only good when you've regenerative Molt. Sure it does take some attention but compared to lokis decoy it's slim, meaning a max ranged miasma would be better to survive. Again, some do use it but that's for lower lvl of stuff, against lvl 70+ enemies Molt is.. Useless compared to miasmas stun. Contagion, Interesting to exist and if it would've been possible I'd use that together with Miasma for some in and out play. However it actually does work with a no duration build. You'll get a few seconds on it, which is enough time to strike one or two heavy targets down if you so desire. (and yes, I'd assume the player use a nuke build for Saryn because why'd you not? a overall well around build just doesn't work as well in every situation as a Miasma build with a Vaykor Marelok or Rakta Ballistica. No matter the lvl of the enemies). So after playing a lot of Saryn, I'd say let her miasma be, fix the game and then the character. And maybe change her first and second ability a little bit. I'd enjoy a impaling infested bolt for Saryn as a first ability, and her Molt is a cool idea but because it's not that effective, why would I bother unless I use a Augmentation? Which in anycase I could use a Vaykor Marelok and nuke build and have a similare if not better result and not have to sacrafice damage for sustainability. So for all of you who want Saryn nerfed, I suggest playing her on a high lvled mission as I mentioned, do a few builds and see if you can survive. Especially on Triton with those enemies at lvl 70. At those lvls I'd say she's the most balanced frame in the game, because if you mess up, you're dead. Edited May 25, 2015 by Rexian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inBlue Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 variety my friend, variety. Providing having her cc same good as other frames.(which would be with my suggestion) Figure how you would like this CC to function. If it lacks variety or is inferior to existing CC then you can forget about touching her 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DanteVincent Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) ... Nothing is better in endgame than a proper cc setup. And we already have tons of frames for that, even Nyx a master of CC is ignored because of better frames, and you want to bring more half assed frames to the long list of crippled and ignored cc? No thanks. Edited May 26, 2015 by (PS4)DanteVincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Skode Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 TL;DR: "Hey guys, I have a great idea on how to fix Saryn, let's nerf her into oblivion!" Haha, no. Remember how nobody used to use Saryn a while back? Well, that's the state she would be returning to if you were to take her damage away, she would become even less useful than Ember... EMBER, the frame that no other frame can currently match in uselessness, will be surpassed in its uselessness by Saryn, if that ain't catastrophic then I don't know what is. Ember is infinitely better than what she was. For me it was a case of DE listening and deciding to buff the weak before they nerf the strong - i hope they continue to walk this path... people who say "fix" should at least take into account what in essense is truly "broken". This year weve seen buffs to Ember and Nekros and more coming for Excal and Frost - this is AWESOME but nope some want to go back to the glory days of people writing threads in blood to DE demanding to know why every update means their favoured Trinity is getting a little bit worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) How to fix Saryn: 1. Change miasma not being able anymore to have negative duration. 2. Reduce damage of the ability significantly. 3. Increase the base duration on animation(stun) heavily This way saryn wouldn't be a p4tw-frame anymore, would provide a great cc and would make her other abilities finally useful since they are duration based as well. inb4 hate by people who want warframe to remain a broken system. There are some misconceptions in the opening post. I will attempt to address them here: 1. Miasma's CC duration is a fixed stagger that lasts 1-4 seconds. The number of damage ticks is independent of the CC duration. The duration stat does not affect the length of Miasma's stagger, period. 2. Miasma's excessive damage comes from the way the duration stat affects its damage calculation. Less duration = more damage with the current formula. Transient Fortitude's introduction transformed Miasma, already the strongest radial nuke, into an absolute monster because it simultaneously increases power strength and decreases duration. To clarify, reducing Miasma's duration increases the power's base damage which is then multiplied by power strength. When max Transient Fortitude and max Fleeting Expertise are equipped, Miasma's base damage (this is before power strength) gets a 2.4x increase, going from 1875 (already on the top end of the radial nukes) to 4500 (which is higher than what other radial nukes get to after power strength is applied.) It is then multiplied by power strength, resulting in 9540 damage if you're staying at max efficiency (25 energy cost) or 12780 if you go for a max strength build (65 energy cost.) Arcane Chlora helmet makes it even stronger, if you have access to it (up to 448 extra damage at max power strength.) This all comes with the happy side effect of dealing all of its damage instantly instead of over time. See Miasma's wiki page for the damage formula and other details here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Miasma. Fixing Miasma's damage calculation to make it more intuitive (and decision-provoking) while also expanding its CC/utility potential seems like a no-brainer, but DE doesn't seem to care about it. I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot all about it or never really understood what's going on in the first place. If and when they do get there, they will have to contend with the irate customers that don't want to lose one of their favorite farming tools. It's something of a no-win situation at this point. even Nyx a master of CC is ignored because of easier farming tools FTFY Edited May 26, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THND3RZ Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 "How to fix Saryn" you can't, because there's nothing to fix. nice joke m8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwevOWNED Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 How to fix Saryn: 1. Change miasma not being able anymore to have negative duration. 2. Reduce damage of the ability significantly. 3. Increase the base duration on animation(stun) heavily This way saryn wouldn't be a p4tw-frame anymore, would provide a great cc and would make her other abilities finally useful since they are duration based as well. inb4 hate by people who want warframe to remain a broken system. TC/OP can't inb4 Also, dude, its base damage is fine. The main problem is that negative duration increases the damage exponentially. Just make damage unaffected by duration, or scale with duration instead of against it, and you have a perfectly fine ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CataReverb Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I want an augment to 2 where pressing it again swaps you with your molt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLUX2226 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Simply remove the complicated mechanics of Miasma ("Damage per tick is affected by strength and duration devided by illuminati including additional random math"). Give it consistent 375 damage per second (affected by strenth ofc), and if you have just 1 sec duration due to your modding, you just have 375 damage at all. Finito! And remove Contagion, since it has no use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeSorcerer Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 So why again are people campaigning to nerf saryn? I gotta lol at this types of threads. You guys know that there are other frames with AoE right? A nova + syndicate explosion can clear entire rooms of enemies or even better, use any launcher and nova, and everything dies, or amprex. But I wont say my favourite way to nuke enemies, thats a secret. Its funny how people want to nerf things, based on corrupted mods. or augments in the case of GMAG. Really really shows people here have no scent of how you balance things in a game. You want to nerf something? Just go ahead, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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