Nerf/remove Greedy Pull Please (With Ideas)

[TheBrsrkr]

-snip-

And we're back to square one, arent we?

No one should have to do screening before starting a mission to have fun. Everyone should be able to play with everyone else and have fun. The only reason that's not happening, is you. I don't want to have to run back to a GMag every second to get ammo for my AMprex from the 50 enemies I killed. You said that we are treating the symptoms and not the actual problems and you would be right. Does this mean that the symptoms stop being a problem? No. Do you think DE could just release a hotfix tomorrow that would reduce all the grind across the board, and automatically stop everyone from farming? Not at all. It would take months of planning, designing and implementing these changes, of course without any mistakes because this ungrateful community believes that DE are simply content robots that suit your whims instead of actual humans

 

Even if the grind WAS fixed tomorrow, would that make GMag a good thing? The aswer is no,because it prevents other people from playing their way. You could say that I'm preventing you from playing your way, but look at it this way: the way you play the game affects me, but the way I play the game doesn't affect you. Does this seem fair? It doesn't, and you know it. YOu just don't want to see a nerf. I can understand that, but that doesn't make it right.

Edited June 6, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[Dojutrek]

I'm not a fan of Greedy Pull to be quite honest, but I don't think it should go at all. It's occasionally annoying to have items dropped ripped away by some Mag with G-Pull, but that's a problem with the ability and would need to be tweaked so it's not so intrusive on the play experience of others. In the opinion of this Tenno, I would say that G-Pull should only affect the items that were a result of a kill by a Pull and not the items or resources that are a result of other players. It would add some timing and modding to be effective in longer missions, but it would also allow much of the potentially bothersome griefing to end. 

 

As for camping methods, I feel that Gear should be tweaked so a frame can only carry a limited number of each restore into a mission. Thus, limiting the player from just spamming them in one place and pitching a tent. Resources and Gear should be scarce in mission and it should require a team of well communicating players to keep going for longer periods of time. As for Solo players, it should be stressed to be prepared for their missions ahead of time and be cautious as they are alone, since a misstep could lead to death or a troublesome scenario.

 

Anyway, these are just my two cents on the G-Pull and Camping matters.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Dojutrek

[Onisa]

She can, when using...uh..Energy Vampire and the healing one?  That requires the target to stay alive.  No AoE abilities or weapons can be used unless you know it wont kill that target.

 

But no other 'frame caulk blocks (awesome phrase, btw) quite like Mesa + Greedy Pull.

Energy Vampire and Well of Life don't prevent you from attacking it's targets though. Discourage perhaps, but not prevent. Unless DE slipped a change in while people were raging about something else, both of those abilities release a pulse equal to whatever was remaining to give on target death to counteract people killing the target early. Just like Mind Control targets having the damage they take wait until the ability deactivates to kick in.

 

I see you've never played with a Nova with a maximized power and range. Blink at one thing and every mob on the map explodes. A minimum duration/max power Saryn can melt everything on the map nearly instantly as well. Hek, even a Nekros can make it it's personal goal to ruin your game with soul punch. Valkyre with Ripline, Loki with Switch Teleport, Limbo with Banish and Cataclysm, the list goes on. if someone wants to play in a manner that is detrimental to another they are going to do it. Just like if two players are going to play in a way that maximizes their gains, they are going to do it.

 

block works too.

[Filas312]

Can you please stop looking for problems in the wrong place? 

 

It's not a problem with Greedy Mag.

 

It's a problem with grind. Oh wait, it's not grind. It's tedium.

 

We're NOT rewarded for grinding. We're rewarded for gambling. Either the gambling has to go or I refuse to let you remove anything that lowers the efficiency of it. Want to spend hours of time thinking you're cooler than the Greedy Mag's spamming one in one place? Guess what. YOU. ARE. NOT. BETTER.

[Onisa]

And we're back to square one, arent we?

No one should have to do screening before starting a mission to have fun. Everyone should be able to play with everyone else and have fun. The only reason that's not happening, is you. I don't want to have to run back to a GMag every second to get ammo for my AMprex from the 50 enemies I killed. You said that we are treating the symptoms and not the actual problems and you would be right. Does this mean that the symptoms stop being a problem? No. Do you think DE could just release a hotfix tomorrow that would reduce all the grind across the board, and automatically stop everyone from farming? Not at all. It would take months of planning, designing and implementing these changes, of course without any mistakes because this ungrateful community believes that DE are simply content robots that suit your whims instead of actual humans

 

Even if the grind WAS fixed tomorrow, would that make GMag a good thing? The aswer is no,because it prevents other people from playing their way. You could say that I'm preventing you from playing your way, but look at it this way: the way you play the game affects me, but the way I play the game doesn't affect you. Does this seem fair? It doesn't, and you know it. YOu just don't want to see a nerf. I can understand that, but that doesn't make it right.

You say that like GMag is the only thing anyone would find distasteful in this game.

I prefer to stealth whatever missions allow it. It gives great xp and the animations are nifty. Does that give me the right to drop into a PUG and demand similar from whatever tenno I happen to be matched up with? Of course not, that would make me a jerk. To get a group of like minded players so I can have fun I would either have to screen my party of play by myself. So why are you any more privileged than me?

[Ironlixivium]

I agree with the general idea of the post, but:

And reward/drop mechanics + endless missions are the reason people camp.

 

Yet nobody sees past Greedy Pull apparently.

 

Greedy pull is the main problem atm. No other frame can cause camping as well as she does.

 

Your ability to run around using your weapons and abilities on enemies. Off the top of my head the only frame that comes to mind that can't caulk block another tenno in some way is Trinity.

 

     Although trinity can restore energy, she can't do it as well as gmag, and gmag allows for spam campers to sit in one spot and never have to leave, instead of leaving for loot every once in a while.

 

They should nerf the ability to make these spam threads. Like if the post includes anything about greedy pull you get warning points and it gets auto deleted. These are super annoying and wasting server space. I wish we could rate down posts.

 

     Um, everyone else sees the hypocrisy in this, right? Not just me?

 

Can you please stop looking for problems in the wrong place? 

 

It's not a problem with Greedy Mag.

 

It's a problem with grind. Oh wait, it's not grind. It's tedium.

 

We're NOT rewarded for grinding. We're rewarded for gambling. Either the gambling has to go or I refuse to let you remove anything that lowers the efficiency of it. Want to spend hours of time thinking you're cooler than the Greedy Mag's spamming one in one place? Guess what. YOU. ARE. NOT. BETTER.

 

     I agree, the gambling should go, and from what DE has said about the new solar map, it will go soon.

 

     So.....about that gmag nerf....

 

     Also, that last sentence made no sense, you switched from "cooler" to "better". The thing is though, I AM cooler. Not because I'm arrogant, (something I despise) but because few things are less cool than a gmag spamming pull for a mesa/nyx/banshee/etc. Idk what to say about the "better" one, though. by better do you mean cooler or better at farming? I guess I'll just go for the farming one; that was my point. Gmag can allow the squad to farm so well, that you don't even have to lift a finger. Whoops, make that two fingers, you need one for pressing 1/4 lol. Jokes aside I believe the problem is that she makes not playing the game far too viable of a method for getting in game loot. I understand that many of you use her the way she was meant to be used, but even so, this is ^ is still a problem... :/

[CapedBaldy]

The problem is that combat especially ability usage is tied to drops. Abilities fund abilities and this issue is exacerbated when there are four players, where one orb can mean 4 standard skill 4 usages.

 

Greedy Pull is not the problem. An ability that brings loot to the player is just convenience. It's nice to have the loot come to you so you don't have to scrounge around the map when there are people running all over the place like in Excavation. In that sense, it fulfills its job amazingly. However, loot is directly related to power, so it has the consequence of making this ability an instant battery for a lot of nukes, especially persistent ones like Mesa. Greedy Pull removes the time and movement factor in getting loot (so you can focus more on combat), and thus removes the time and movement factor in getting energy (so you can spam more). The inherent mechanics of energy is the problem.

 

The problem is not Greedy Pull or Peacemaker or Grind, but you can debate about the last one.

 

Nerf Greedy Pull?

 

Go ahead. Whether you achieve anything besides making Mag less team friendly, I'm not too sure.

Edited June 6, 2015 by CapedBaldy

[Onisa]

     Although trinity can restore energy, she can't do it as well as gmag, and gmag allows for spam campers to sit in one spot and never have to leave, instead of leaving for loot every once in a while.

I'm sorry to say, but my reply to Noamuth had nothing to do with Trinity's ability to provide energy. Only Trinity's lack of trolling capabilities if a player were so inclined to use her so.

[LeeAmatsu]

Nerf GP eh? Then Trin's gonna get back her job. Oh more spam camping problems? Nerf Trin. What's next?

[Vadrigos]

So long as Warframe continues to include its loot-metagame with Nekros' Desecrate and Pilfering Swarm and things of that ilk, things like Greedy Pull will remain. You are attempting to address a symptom. Try addressing the cause instead...

[Ironlixivium]

Nerf GP eh? Then Trin's gonna get back her job. Oh more spam camping problems? Nerf Trin. What's next?

 

     No, trin is fine. 

 

So long as Warframe continues to include its loot-metagame with Nekros' Desecrate and Pilfering Swarm and things of that ilk, things like Greedy Pull will remain. You are attempting to address a symptom. Try addressing the cause instead...

 

     I don't see why greedy pull must remain. If the loot system changes then greedy pull will be useless. If it stays the same it will be op. Besides, I'd rather it be nerfed than removed. I think the best solution is to make it not effect energy orbs.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Grom-84]

If a Mag is feedind energy to a frame to keep frame ability working, she is doing teamwork right there. Supporting camping? Also teamwork.

How is suppose to be, each of their own? Like when you solo?

 

Yea!!! we need to stick together apart)

[arsyadpower]

defense and interception is camping mission duh.

[Liminal]

Greedy pull is the main problem atm. No other frame can cause camping as well as she does.

You're not seeing why it's a problem. That's where a proper fix should start from. Simply getting rid of Greedy Pull or nerfing it is a knee-jerk reaction.

 

Also, Gmag doesn't cause camping: endless missions do.

Edited June 8, 2015 by The_Doc

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

I don't want a nerf, but a good compromise would be to allow the orbs and other stuff to be pulled but at a significant loss to damage.

This means that you must also have a CC frame.

Edit: The above is correct, but I'll add more. Survival camping happens because:

1) Most end game frames weren't designed for mobile survival. They were designed with defense in mind. Very few ultimates are mobile.

2) Camping removes the problems with RNG. I know a few spots where the enemies never stop coming.

3) It keeps everyone together much more effectively than simply running around together.

4) Its simply safer. Combined with #3, the fact that enemies come from one direction and can be debuffed to all hell means that people will gravitate towards camping.

But at the end of the day, the biggest problem is that there are few synergies for mobile gameplay while there are plenty for defensive play. If DE changes that, then greedy pull will be used less.

Edited June 8, 2015 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[MagPrime]

So, out of boredum, I went and reread the thread and it's changed my stance on this.

 

Simply nerfing Greedy Pull isn't the entire solution.  I still think it should have some changes made to it, but those changes should be hand in hand with changes to how ultimates gain energy as well as drop rates.

 

I've agreed several times that Greedy Pull is a symptom of the larger issue and making a change to this augment wont fix the larger problem, but it does need attention.

[Ironlixivium]

You're not seeing why it's a problem. That's where a proper fix should start from. Simply getting rid of Greedy Pull or nerfing it is a knee-jerk reaction.

 

Also, Gmag doesn't cause camping: endless missions do.

 

     Actually, it wasn't camping that I had a problem with, it's spam camping; sitting in one spot and pressing one button over and over while the game pretty much plays itself, but if you have ideas for making these missions less of a grind and more about playing, I'm all ears. 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[Onisa]

     Actually, it wasn't camping that I had a problem with, it's spam camping; sitting in one spot and pressing one button over and over while the game pretty much plays itself, but if you have ideas for making these missions less of a grind and more about playing, I'm all ears.

So you would prefer us to sit in one spot clicking one mouse button repeatedly over pressing one number button repeatedly.

If I rebind my left mouse button to my first warframe ability does that make it better? Because there is literally no other difference between what you call 'camping' and 'spam camping'.

[vaugahn]

 which will never happen ...

 

I wouldn't bet on that.

Edited June 8, 2015 by vaugahn

[S7ORM]

My question is, how does this affect your personal game play. If you want to "not" play with greedy mag.... dont join random matches, and join a clan and play with friends. or better yet, solo.

Easy to farm = more rng = more grind = must farm more.

By having this method in game to easily (and without much interaction) complete long defenses/survivals, and stack resources, [DE] responds by increasing the amount of time required to get the things people want. That negatively affects players who don't use GMag camping farming as well.

Same thing happened with Syndicate Rep and Excal farming.

[Pacheon]

People have absolutely no issue with Mag being able to pull items near by.

 

Why should it be changed, because few people keep posting about it, because its, what? Farm-disturbing? Ruining the gameplay flow?

Hell, copter-rushers were the most annoying back then, nowadays everybody does the "trick".

Edited June 9, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Hidden hidden post

[Liminal]

     Actually, it wasn't camping that I had a problem with, it's spam camping; sitting in one spot and pressing one button over and over while the game pretty much plays itself, but if you have ideas for making these missions less of a grind and more about playing, I'm all ears.

Spam camping is a direct consequence of camping. It's undeniable that most players take the path of least resistance. Right now it's Mesa+GMag.

 

There have been plenty of suggestions in the forums to make missions "less of a grind". Without reworking rewards I'd say that Excavation had the right idea, forcing players to go pick up power cores (which cannot be pulled btw). imo, Excavation shouldn't be endless though.

[NN13]

     It's causing massive spam-camping problems, allowing people to using channeling abilities longer than the afk timer. It's kinda breaking the game. :/

 

     If you don't want to remove it, then please make location-locked channeling abilities disable energy pickups, or better yet make greedy pull client side only after all it IS called "greedy pull" not "team energy restore pull"

 

Clarification:

Just to clarify, I have no real issue with camping, it's spam-camping that's the problem.

Camping is where you fortify yourselves at the pod.

Spam camping is where you press one or two buttons while you pretend you're playing the game :/

 

Other Clarification:

     The reason gmag should be nerfed, and not every support ever, like you sarcastic commentators tend to suggest, is that gmag allows for insane amounts of mindless spamming. Nekros, Trin, Hydroid, and all the other support frames do not. Extra loot? you still have to go pick it up, so it's not comparable. Trinity doesn't work on channeling abilities, so she's not a gmag replacement either.

 

     Please, I'm not attacking a random spam-camp enabler, I'm attempting to fix the biggest spam-camp enabler.

 

Others' Ideas:

 

• Make GP not pull energy orbs

 

 

Edit: clarified stuff....again....

You think Greedy Mag is causing Spam-camping? How cute....Guess you weren't around when the Viver-syndrome was at its peak.

 Also, how do you know its breaking the game? Did you successfully make a game? We (both you and me) didn't make a game while DE did. They know better.

 

You think nerfing Greedy Pull will stop it? Then why was it around when Greedy Pull was not a thing? You know, Viver and older Daco where we used Trinity and Excal...

 

Reply to Clarification:

So, you are saying that shooting from a stationary place with your Boltor Prime while standing inside a Snowglobe is perfectly fine.

But, setting up a turret(read : Mesa) inside a Snowglobe is not fine. I fail to see your logic, because even when I use Boltor Prime, I need to press only one button.

 

Reply to Other Clarification:

While you feel others are being sarcastic, I find your logic pretty funny and ironic.

Funny because you probably don't know how much energy can Trinity replenish in how less time.

Ironic because if I use my trinity, Mesa will need to stop for just 3 seconds to replenish all 400 energy,considering the Mesa is using Primed Flow.

 

Yes, you have no idea what an EV Trinity can do. My EV Trinity can give 300 energy in 2 secs. And I am not even using Transient Fortitude. If I use that, it will give 300+ energy in 1 second. At least Gmag needs a Nekros to be that effective.

 

 

You know, instead of nerf this...nerf that, how about tell DE to re-vamp mission types, re-vamp spawn mechanisms or at least re-vamp tilesets.

Because the tileset of Draco is not suited to be an Interception map. It is too small.

 

Moreover, how about suggesting DE to stop making stationary powers like Peacemaker and the very recent Effigy?

 

On top of that, how about fixing the grind? Because if there is no grind, people will play the game to have fun and not play for efficient techniques to reduce the grind.

Edited June 8, 2015 by NN13

[camden18]

     It's causing massive spam-camping problems, allowing people to using channeling abilities longer than the afk timer. It's kinda breaking the game. :/

 

     If you don't want to remove it, then please make location-locked channeling abilities disable energy pickups, or better yet make greedy pull client side only after all it IS called "greedy pull" not "team energy restore pull"

 

Clarification:

Just to clarify, I have no real issue with camping, it's spam-camping that's the problem.

Camping is where you fortify yourselves at the pod.

Spam camping is where you press one or two buttons while you pretend you're playing the game :/

 

Other Clarification:

     The reason gmag should be nerfed, and not every support ever, like you sarcastic commentators tend to suggest, is that gmag allows for insane amounts of mindless spamming. Nekros, Trin, Hydroid, and all the other support frames do not. Extra loot? you still have to go pick it up, so it's not comparable. Trinity doesn't work on channeling abilities, so she's not a gmag replacement either.

 

     Please, I'm not attacking a random spam-camp enabler, I'm attempting to fix the biggest spam-camp enabler.

 

Others' Ideas:

 

• Make GP not pull energy orbs

 

 

Edit: clarified stuff....again....

NO! it is meant as something to help someones team.. if anything just have it so that you can report people if they do whatever you are thinking they are doing.. plus not much of what you said makes any sense

[Kletse]

Greedy pull is not the problem. The people being greedy mag are.

Teamplay isn't standing in one spot and pull your &#! off (unless the team wants that)

You have to supply your teammates regardless where they are.. then greedy mag is great.