Daikyu, Paris Prime, Should 1 Shot! (Pvp)

[armedpoop]

lol he cant prove and is also not willing to try that just shows that u are right nighttide. i can land headshots with hitscanweapons but with a bow its ridiculous hard and chance instead of luck

So because YOU or I personally lack the skill to land headshots with bows, they should be one shots? You basically just said "Im a scrub, make it easir for scrubs like me!"  Of course its harder to land headshots with bows...AS IT SHOULD BE. Its one of the drawbacks of having the ability to one shot. High skill is highly rewarded. 

 

Can there be no skill in WF pvp? 

Edited May 31, 2015 by armedpoop

[armedpoop]

Clearly you have absolutely no idea how hard it is to land shots with daikyu, let alone land headshots with it. This isnt a case of people being bad, its a case of you not understanding how difficult it is to do that. Infact its almost impossible unless your target is standing still.

I have quite the idea actually. Its very difficult. Thats the point. You are rewarded for marksmanship. Simple as that. You seem to think that the only thing you can do in WF pvp is move and shoot, WHICH IS NOT THE CASE. There are multiple ways of slowing a player down, or maybe even using tactics and mind games to your advantage?

[.Talia.]

So because YOU or I personally lack the skill to land headshots with bows, they should be one shots? You basically just said "Im a scrub, make it easir for scrubs like me!"  Of course its harder to land headshots with bows...AS IT SHOULD BE. Its one of the drawbacks of having the ability to one shot. High skill is highly rewarded. 

 

Can there be no skill in WF pvp? 

Lord_Noctus is probably one of the best Bow users in the Conclaves. Landing headshots with a Bow is not as easy as you think, specially against a player with good mobility skills. To land a headshot with a Bow the opponent have to be basically standing still, or you hit by pure luck.

That being said, i don't think the Daikyu nerf was such a big deal as some Bow users (My friends among them) are trying to make it seem like. The weapon still one-shots the majority of the available Warframes with full health. Bows required lot more skill in the old Conclave, because of the Rush and Fury mods, as well as the fast copter weapons being available (Tipedo, Scoliac, Etc). But on PvP 2.0 getting Bow shots is not as hard as it used to be, specially because most of the time we are in close range on these new maps.

If a certain weapon is responsible for bad players having better K/D's on deathmatches than good players, it is quite obvious that the said weapon is overpowered, no? Regardless, the Daikyu still deadly on the right hands, Dante_DeWolfe seem to have no problems with the nerf, and he doesn't even use powers... Still trying to follow the old fair play rules. :sigh:

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

bow its ridiculous hard and chance instead of luck

I agree, but chance and luck kinda are synonymous in this case.

 

 

Lord_Noctus is probably one of the best Bow users in the Conclaves. Landing headshots with a Bow is not as easy as you think, specially against a player with good mobility skills. To land a headshot with a Bow the opponent have to be basically standing still, or you hit by pure luck.

That being said, i don't think the Daikyu nerf was such a big deal as some Bow users (My friends among them) are trying to make it seem like. The weapon still one-shots the majority of the available Warframes with full health. Bows required lot more skill in the old Conclave, because of the Rush and Fury mods, as well as the fast copter weapons being available (Tipedo, Scoliac, Etc). But on PvP 2.0 getting Bow shots is not as hard as it used to be, specially because most of the time we are in close range on these new maps.

If a certain weapon is responsible for bad players having better K/D's on deathmatches than good players, it is quite obvious that the said weapon is overpowered, no? Regardless, the Daikyu still deadly on the right hands, Dante_DeWolfe seem to have no problems with the nerf, and he doesn't even use powers... Still trying to follow the old fair play rules. :sigh:

Paragraph 1: Noctus Already stated this you don't need to validate him.

 

Paragraph 2: This is rather subjective, considering that both game modes require a different set of skills. Sure players were faster but one must also consider that 1.0 bows had more ammo, were able to 1 shot and fired quicker with the use of mods. It is also much, much easier to break the distance between another player here.

 

On the other hand, we have a mode with slower players and the priority is more headshots than anything else. Ammo is limited and theres is now a focus on energy hogging/casting and E melee spamming, also considering that performing combos can negate damage and blocking.

 

Is it harder in 2.0 than 1.0? Yes and No. There are much more ways to block and prevent and arrow, there are many more ways that players can  1 shot you easier without the use of skill based weapons. On the other hand 1.0 has lots of movement and requires better aim. 

 

The maps are not all exclusively CQC. Some maps have open spaces and very narrow and long hallways.

 

Paragraph 3: Once again you are making empty claims, I don't know dante, nor I have never seen him in game. How can i validate your claim, when you have shown no evidence. The same thing applies to your Daikyu = Better K/D claim.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[armedpoop]

-snip-

Ill take your word for it then RexSol, but doesnt that make it seem like the skill ceiling (as far as aiming goes) has gotten higher? Bows really arent that hard to use to warrant one shot body shots. As you said, they are still pretty strong and seem to be very effective versus a weakened player. Why not mix bows into some type of combo attack?

 

I could never really get into the older pvp due to the fact that it was just waaay too fast. I find it funny that people complain about THIS iteration being too fast. 

[Nighttide77]

but doesnt that make it seem like the skill ceiling (as far as aiming goes) has gotten higher?

 

I think I've tried to state this in different ways, so I'll try to make this as plain as possible:

 

Landing headshots with bows, or any projectile weapon, is not 100% skill based.  It's primarily luck.

 

---edit---

 

Yes, you can mix your projectile-based weapons with powers to slow your opponents to open them up for headshots.  Yes, you can take advantage of people's naivety such that they will blindly follow you around a corner or behind a door where you've pretty much guessed where their head will be.  However, using powers and baiting are more like crutches, where executing headshots should be possible without CC'ing your opponent first.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Nighttide77

[Rubbertubtub01]

Ill take your word for it then RexSol, but doesnt that make it seem like the skill ceiling (as far as aiming goes) has gotten higher? Bows really arent that hard to use to warrant one shot body shots. As you said, they are still pretty strong and seem to be very effective versus a weakened player. Why not mix bows into some type of combo attack?

 

I could never really get into the older pvp due to the fact that it was just waaay too fast. I find it funny that people complain about THIS iteration being too fast. 

 

Yes, the old conclave was TONNES faster than this new conclave, but it was WAY easier to get kills for someone with more skill than others. The weapons could actually 1 shot, rewarding people with a kill for their skilled aiming.

 

In the new conclave I can still move nearly as fast as the old conclave and so do many others which makes it REALLY hard to use a bow that doesn't 1 shot. You have to pull off TWO miraculous shots to get a kill, but usually people run away and grab health and then it's like you didn't even hit them. 

 

Bows like the Daikyu should 1 shot. There is no valid argument against it.

 

Just think, with it being a 2 shot kill and 3 second charge time, that's 6 SECONDS to kill someone, and that's if you happen to land both shots. It's now nearly impossible to use the Daikyu while keeping a positive KD. I've only seen "Dante_DeWolfe" keep a positive KD only using the Daikyu, and he is the only person i've seen using it. I can't even keep a positive KD vs'ing power spammers and what not. I don't even use it anymore because it's that bad. This weapon is now completely useless. USELESS. 

Edited May 31, 2015 by FlyingThund3rGod

[Aggh]

 

Just think, with it being a 2 shot kill and 3 second charge time, that's 6 SECONDS to kill someone, and that's if you happen to land both shots.

 

It's now nearly impossible to use the Daikyu while keeping a positive KD. I've only seen "Dante_DeWolfe" keep a positive KD only using the Daikyu, and he is the only person i've seen using it. I can't even keep a positive KD vs'ing power spammers and what not. I don't even use it anymore because it's that bad. This weapon is now completely useless. USELESS. 

 

Charge time isn't part of ttk in 99% of encounters since you can hold a charge.  As long as you keep releasing and recharging before you think you'll be in a fight, there's no reason that you shouldn't have a shot ready when going in for a kill.

 

And plenty of people can hold a positive KDr with daikyu.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Aggh

[Burnthesteak87]

Lol this thread is becoming an pride-fest.

Skill here, skill there... It requires skill so it's justified...

Weapons musn't oneshot in PVP.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[rockscl]

Skill here, skill there... It requires skill so it's justified...

 

actually you people are tagging and untagging methods as skill too loosely, DE has already exposed their point of view about what is skill, if you will not ever get onto that level of view nothing will change

Edited May 31, 2015 by rockscl

[xxaaron5515xx]

Headshots are hard and deserve the 1 shot. Everything else imo should do about 85% - 90% of survivability (IE shields + hp / armor) then if ur running around like a maniac with a bow ull have to at least get a melee in to finish off or tap fire it. There is no sway or penalty for hip firing so them not 1 shotting is where they need to be. PS daikyu still 1 shots valk because puncture dmg.

[Lord_Noctus]

Ill take your word for it then RexSol, but doesnt that make it seem like the skill ceiling (as far as aiming goes) has gotten higher? Bows really arent that hard to use to warrant one shot body shots. As you said, they are still pretty strong and seem to be very effective versus a weakened player. Why not mix bows into some type of combo attack?

if holstering would be faster.... im usualy getting alot kills by mixing my charged paris p shot with a secondary that have decent firerate. Remembers me alot of good old battlefield 2 times

Edited May 31, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[Nighttide77]

You simply have no idea of what are you talking about, weapons musn't oneshot in PVP.

 

I disagree.  I think that being able to one-shot your opponents should be treated as a form of art, and anything that does so should require a level of commendable talent.  There are powers that one-shot, melee attacks that one-shot, and only one bow that one-shots pretty consistently.  Unfortunately, due to lag, there are instances where even rifles will seem like they one-shot :-P

 

If you want a game where there aren't really any one-shots, I would suggest a game like Firefall.

[Lord_Noctus]

I agree, but chance and luck kinda are synonymous in this case.

My bad im writing sometimes with my mobile phone while doing other things and multitasking dont seem to be a talent of mine :D

[Burnthesteak87]

I disagree.  I think that being able to one-shot your opponents should be treated as a form of art, and anything that does so should require a level of commendable talent.  There are powers that one-shot, melee attacks that one-shot, and only one bow that one-shots pretty consistently.  Unfortunately, due to lag, there are instances where even rifles will seem like they one-shot :-P

 

If you want a game where there aren't really any one-shots, I would suggest a game like Firefall.

If there isn't a ranking system which is going to split players basing on their skill, allowing free oneshots means giving freely the chance of most "skilled" and nerd players to indescriminately massacre other players with no chance of fighting back. Thats not PVP, that's frustrating and imbecile massacre.

I think it would be useless discussing of balance with people that get satisfaction just from oneshotting slower connection and less skilled players on a totally umbalanced online shooter.

You can lurk in my profile history to understand my point, I won't waste other words on these useless threads.

I'm just worried that the developing PVP is going to be a meal for egocentric, pride seekers and faceroll-friendly players, who just think about getting skilled and getting self esteem out of it instead than having fun with other players.

Thats the 90% of playerbase in most of nowdays pvp games anyway.

Art... lol. That's pretty egocentric.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Nighttide77]

If there isn't a ranking system which is going to split players basing on their skill, allowing free oneshots means giving freely the chance of most "skilled" and nerd players to indescriminately massacre other players with no chance of fighting back. Thats not PVP, that's frustrating and imbecile massacre.

 

I've used rifles and lower damage weapons on lesser-skilled, probably new players.  I've even pulled out melee, stood back and just blocked all their shooting.  I even recruited a couple such players into my clan.  The best chance such newbies have is to watch how other players do and pick up those strategies.  This includes dominating energy spawns, zerg'ing (basically following other players in a loose and swarm-like fashion), and interrupting a fight between two players so you take out both players while they're weak/distracted.

 

There is no chance for newbies to fight back, even if they get warning shots from a veteran.

 

oneshotting slower connection and less skilled players 

 

Slow connection players get KO'd without any ability to defend themselves, regardless of the weapons used against them.  I know the frustration because it happens to me.

 

I won't waste other words on these useless threads.

 

ooo k...  Guess we won't trade any further words after this.

 

Art... lol. That's pretty egocentric.

 

Well, you only box in your own mind if you don't open yourself to all the possibilities presented before you.

[Lord_Noctus]

Lets make our guns shoot gumdrops and icecream :D

[Nighttide77]

Lets make our guns shoot gumdrops and icecream :D

 

There was that valentine's skin for arrows...shooting hearts

[Lord_Noctus]

who just think about getting skilled and getting self esteem out of it instead than having fun with other players.

Thats the 90% of playerbase in most of nowdays pvp games anyway.

competetive pvp is a big sellingpoint of alot games moba or fps. There is nothing wrong about it and the best players are usually very nice and mature ppl Edited June 1, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[Lyraius]

Charge time isn't part of ttk in 99% of encounters since you can hold a charge.  As long as you keep releasing and recharging before you think you'll be in a fight, there's no reason that you shouldn't have a shot ready when going in for a kill.

 

And plenty of people can hold a positive KDr with daikyu.

Tired of people saying "you can hold a charge!! its easy to use!!"  (MAINLY with the Daikyu).  -----REMEMBER----- If you miss the shot, you have to charge it again, the charge time is pretty long so you'll probably die before you charge it again, 

 

If you want, try equip daikyu and go into team death match or death match and try to maintain a positive KD against players with guns. Prephaps that'll change some of your minds. 

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

If you noticed the updates, it seems that they want to increase the TTK of weapons. 

 

Imo, its ruining warframe. Warframe is a movement based game and works better with low TTKs.

 

But since they are high TTKs we gotta deal with it.

 

Or u can be like me and just quit.

[Nighttide77]

If you noticed the updates, it seems that they want to increase the TTK of weapons. 

 

Imo, its ruining warframe. Warframe is a movement based game and works better with low TTKs.

 

But since they are high TTKs we gotta deal with it.

 

Or u can be like me and just quit.

 

Meh, half the current frames for Conclave still can be one-shot by Daikyu.  I hope they intend to activate proc effects using mods at some point...would love me a bleed proc Conclave mod, even 1 damage per sec.

[(PSN)Kish_Lat]

I get 1 shot from Mk1 Paris and I'm dead. Paris Prime takes 2 body shots to kill an enemy. Usually 3. That's balance.

[-InV-igo95862]

I would rather see a rework on bows to make them reward high skill plays. Make them deal less damage in close but more damage with distance so that if you predicted opponents movement on large distance you would be rewarded. Right now most bow users use it point blank.

[Dr.J48]

I believe the daikyu should one shot like it used to, and the paris (mk1 and prime) should stay the same except for the uncharged damage, because a 100+ damage trigger spam shot should be more in the 25 region