Please Stop With That Stupid Damage Cap.

[neKroMancer]

The problem is pretty straight forward, DE is trying to curve our god-like power and buying new type of enemy some time to do its job properly through damage cap. However, in the process of doing so, high damage, single shot weapon got hurt, badly. (I used Dread in my first encounter with juggy and it really didn't go as planned)

Now, I believe that damage cap need to stay since it will prevent juggernaut from dying once he open his belly which kill the purpose of being a new tank of the Infest. However, instead of capping damage per bullet, it should be capped per instance. Each time it open its belly, player can deal up to 25% damage of juggernaut's total health. However, the weak spot should be smaller thus rewarding better shot instead of firing Boltor prime madly at the biggest yellow spot the game has to offer thus far.

[TwevOWNED]

Man gotta love those whiners.

Push # to win, OP weapons, OP warframes, once you put together some ennemies to give "challenge" everybody come back ramming beating on a dead horse...

That's what the community asked! and that's what we get, the juggernaut. if you're not happy with him, take a mesa use peacemaker and be done with it... you just forgot what his purpose was.

Purpose was to make already underused weapons less usefull than their full auto counterparts?

I guess it succeeded in that case.

[DSpite]

Damage caps and timed perfect invulnerability phases are a horrifically stupid idea and need to die. Painfully. If I spend 6 formas making my Opticor into an anti-tank godslayer capable of boring through 1.5 metres of solid rock, I expect it to slay tanks and gods. I do not expect the beam to be stopped dead by 20 centimetres of leather (Lephantis, Juggernaut) or 5 centimetres of hinged iron flaps (Sargas Ruk).

 

This type of thinking is the problem "I have a weapon that kill starships, so I should be able to wipe maps", yes, fine, and the rewards you get should match the difficulty you had, meaning, you should get zero rewards, if you can simply one-shot small moons.

[Autongnosis]

This type of thinking is the problem "I have a weapon that kill starships, so I should be able to wipe maps", yes, fine, and the rewards you get should match the difficulty you had, meaning, you should get zero rewards, if you can simply one-shot small moons.

Reading is apparently too hard.

 

Never in this topic anybody demanded they should be able to one-hit KO the Juggernaut.

The point is that the damage cap is not bad initself, as in, it makes sense such a tanky enemy would have something like that. The whole problem lies in the fact that the damage cap is a penalty for weapons precisely designed to kill single, tough targets, while it doesn't influence at all fast firing small caliber guns. The idea behind the damage cap is fine, but they way it's implemented is not really a good one.

It's just another nail in the coffin of high damage low rof weapons. Which is pretty stupid considering those weapons should be meant to be good at assassinating VIPs - that's their primary purpose, since on normal enemies you usually wast around 90-75% of youor damage in overkill dump.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)Killmoves37]

I like the idea of a damage cap, but like others have said, it hurts slower ROF weapons much more than fast firing ones. Firing one shot that does 500 damage is just flat out worse than 10 that do 100. 

I don't like the idea of a damage window either, they we just get another Sargus Ruk and I hate that fight with a burning passion. I don't know what I want honestly, I'd have to put more time into thinking about it. 

[Eldnacpeek]

Its called "balance"

You and the people who keep upvoting you need to educate yourself in the field of balance. This isn't balance, if there's a damage cap, then automatic weapons are superior to the already underpowered Shotguns AND Sniper Rifles. If they were to remove the cap, or at least boost it for Shotguns and Sniper Rifles, that would be balance, making them equal to automatic guns, meaning now it's preference over superiority.

Then again, damage in this game is pretty scattered as it is right now. Reason bosses keep getting invincible periods is because there are no checks in our damage output and DE needs to acknowledge this.

Edited June 8, 2015 by LazerSkink

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Man gotta love those whiners.

Push # to win, OP weapons, OP warframes, once you put together some ennemies to give "challenge" everybody come back ramming beating on a dead horse...

That's what the community asked! and that's what we get, the juggernaut. if you're not happy with him, take a mesa use peacemaker and be done with it... you just forgot what his purpose was.

That stuff is OP because people worked for it. Everyone expects their OP weapons to be OP because they worked for/paid for that to happen.

Get over yourself. Warframe has never been a game about legitimate challenge, and DE's constant attempts to ram it in are irritating.

Edited June 8, 2015 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[rockscl]

i have killed the juggernaut, alone and in team, more than 10 times, hardly took more than 5 minutes, hard hitting weapons are as, if not more, efficient against him, all you need to do is stay in high ground and shot in the weak spots when you have the chance, i have never used ammo restores against him, this miniboss, or boss? just stays out from insta deaths by somas, and actually requires you to do something different

 

375x2 damage per shot in the back with latron W critical damage build, i get to hit like 3 shots before he closes the spot, with a unpotatoed multishot magnum i do 50x2 per shot on the back, so, stop showering bullets on him for a second, and adjust your tactic

 

1300 per saryn ultimate always, no full strength, valkyr eats his hp bar with each attack, i dont even want to try mesa, but i saw a guy destroying its hp with her like 1/4 its hp in a single weak spot exposure, guess what, from above

 

and i hope that those weak spot timed exposure get integrated into more enemies, this boss is a good base to expand into lech kril, sargas ruk, lephantis, waste your ammo on the armored phase if you want, or profit in the weakspot exposure, instead of full invulnerability times, GJ DE

Edited June 8, 2015 by rockscl

[Lunamaniac]

I don't understand why DE actively chooses to make sniper rifles irrelevant when given the perfect opportunity to make them more viable.

 

They introduce powerful vips, then they give them a damage cap so that snipers still aren't useful.

 

DE, please.  Snipers are fun to use, so please make them rewarding as well.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Lunamaniac

[Swailwort]

How? I just shot half-HP manic with my 4 forma Daikyu on Vex Armor Chroma, but he just took some damage and teleported away.

This is weird... Yesterday, I one shot a Manic... Today, I had to slap a complete mag on him...

Balance is there. Meanwhile, if he gets on me, I'm dead.

[igniz13]

Juggernaut should have a scaling damage reduction where a certain amount of damage is flat out removed, with a higher damage cap so no one bullet does excessive damage

i.e. A single bullet needs to do more than 100 damage to do any damage, so a 101 damage bullet does 1 damage but a 10000 damage bullet does a max of 5000 or whatever. The result means that everyone has to either focus on a weak spot to ensure damage.

 

Then you can have weakspots that do varying damage, outer weak spots do 2x damage and the core weakspot does 5x damage or such.

 

As it stood, the Juggernaut is kinda a pisstake.

[lightini]

That stuff is OP because people worked for it. Everyone expects their OP weapons to be OP because they worked for/paid for that to happen.

Get over yourself. Warframe has never been a game about legitimate challenge, and DE's constant attempts to ram it in are irritating.

While the problem of weapon revelance is legitimate on ennemies like the manic and the nullifier, (And by the way is only 5% of the total ennemy composition) we have here the juggernaut, a VIP single boss target. And this minority is causing such an uproar.

Yes we worked on those weapons, but how many formas as possible, if it was all there was to it, we would have stopped warframe long ago.

Never been about legitimate challenge? That's a laugh, events? Leaderboards? What are those? Please do tell me i don't understand what you are trying to say to me? A challenging game is fun, and a fun game will keep me going.

[NikolaiLev]

Its called "balance"

 

Except shotguns and snipers rifles are already not very useful.

 

So how is that balanced?

 

Much as I love nullifiers, shotguns and sniper rifles should be more useful.

Edited June 9, 2015 by NikolaiLev

[Ashnal]

Not this weak argument again. What you refer to as "Balance" is for PvP multiplayer games / modes, not PvE multiplayer games / modes and last I checked, this game was primarily based around PvE.

Not this crap again.

 

Balance is necessary in PvE games. Especially ones that allow players to make choices and develop their own character builds and playstyles.

 

Would you enjoy a game where one playstyle that you did not enjoy was much more effective than one you did? What if a game advertised itself as having multiple ways to play, but the choices were so one sided that choosing the non-optimal choice was a game over?

 

People like to play games like this one in a  variety of ways. Balancing weapons and frames ensures that no matter what playstyle you enjoy you will still be able to be an effective member of your team.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Yeah, these damage caps are big downer. My alltime favourite weapon used to be dread, but now i always have to think 10 times before using it, knowing that against some enemies unranked furis is more effective than my multi formaed dread. I dont think damage cap should go away, but it certainly needs to be tweaked a lot. 

[Vance.Stubbs]

Not this crap again.

 

Balance is necessary in PvE games. Especially ones that allow players to make choices and develop their own character builds and playstyles.

 

Would you enjoy a game where one playstyle that you did not enjoy was much more effective than one you did? What if a game advertised itself as having multiple ways to play, but the choices were so one sided that choosing the non-optimal choice was a game over?

 

People like to play games like this one in a  variety of ways. Balancing weapons and frames ensures that no matter what playstyle you enjoy you will still be able to be an effective member of your team.

 

He was talking that low fire rate weapons' advantage in PvP has nothing to do with being "good" in PvE. Look at some posts above

Edited June 9, 2015 by Vance.Stubbs

[Uzpian]

Its called "balance"

Man, you're getting lots of flak here.

[The.Night.Wolf]

In general Snipers need a rework as they are not viable on many mobs. And isn't that the point of one shot weapons? However, a good Strun Wraith, Boar Prime or Hek aren't bad.

[Ashnal]

He was talking that low fire rate weapons' advantage in PvP has nothing to do with being "good" in PvE. Look at some posts above

For the post I'm quoted. it sure seemed like he was making a statement that PvE weapon balance wasn't  something that needed to be done. Comparing it to PvP balance.

 

PvP and PvE balance are two separate things, but they both require balance of their own brand. Disregarding PvE balance is what his post seemed to support.

[Feallike]

The problem is not that Single shot weapons are to weak. it's that high DPS weapons are to OP. If the DE nerfs full auto weapons then everything will be absolutely fine. I feel a nerf coming for them anyway, we just have to figure out how they will nerf them.

 

 

P.S The OP HAS SAID NOTHING ABOUT ENEMIES BEING TO STRONG. He has only stated that comparably semi auto or charge weapons are significantly weaker than full auto DPS weapons.

 

Anyone who posted about enemies being OP, or him whining about his oneshoting build not working is basically spamming. If your not going to read the OP's post don't post in general. -.-

Edited June 9, 2015 by Feallike

[Dawnstrider]

So they remove the cap, you one shot the boss with your broken OP weapon before any of your teammates get to him. Is that what you want? Because that's what you're saying

 

 

What an amazing boss battle, what great teamwork needed to defeat him....

 

 

This thread is indicative that this community are just kids who don't want to work cooperatively and just want to press a button and get given everything for nothing. It's pathetic really

[TotallyLagging]

So they remove the cap, you one shot the boss with your broken OP weapon before any of your teammates get to him. Is that what you want? Because that's what you're saying

 

 

What an amazing boss battle, what great teamwork needed to defeat him....

 

 

This thread is indicative that this community are just kids who don't want to work cooperatively and just want to press a button and get given everything for nothing. It's pathetic really

Great job reading the entire thread I guess.

[Feallike]

So they remove the cap, you one shot the boss with your broken OP weapon before any of your teammates get to him. Is that what you want? Because that's what you're saying

 

 

What an amazing boss battle, what great teamwork needed to defeat him....

 

 

This thread is indicative that this community are just kids who don't want to work cooperatively and just want to press a button and get given everything for nothing. It's pathetic really

 

OP has said nothing about oneshoting bosses.

 

He is saying that it is unfair for their to be a damage cap for bows and snipers. when you can kill them dumb thing in one burst with your boltorP. Why allow a high DPS weapon like SomaP or BoltorP kill the Juggernaut in 1 burst, but not allow a bow to 1-3 shot the thing. It isn't unballanced it is a symbol showing that high DPS weapons are better in general to high damage low DPS weapons.

 

In simple english:

 

BoltorP does 500 damage to Juggernaut and shoots 10 times a second. Doing a total of 5k damage. Bow is capped at doing 2k damage and shoots 1 time a second. Which one of these will be able to kill the Juggernaut faster?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Feallike

[S3EK3R]

I'm explaining this to those who say we just whine.

 

Soma Prime: damage on target with ONE hit: 100

5 Forma Vectis: damage on target with ONE hit: 100

3 Forma Dread: damage on target: 100

 

See the problem here?

We do not "whine" because we cannot one-hit-kill bosses, we are in an uproar, because every single-shot weapon that requires skill to use is overshadowed by Soma Prime and it's kind due to the damage cap.

Damage cap is needed, but let us deal more damage than full-auto rifles.

Edited June 9, 2015 by S3EK3R

[Autongnosis]

I'm explaining this to those who say we just whine.

Soma Prime: damage on target with ONE hit: 100

5 Forma Vectis: damage on target with ONE hit: 100

See the problem here?

We do not "whine" because we cannot one-hit-kill bosses, we are in an uproar, because every single-shot weapon that requires skill to use is overshadowed by Soma Prime and it's kind due to the damage cap.

Damage cap is needed, but let us deal more damage than full-auto rifles.

I think you got something wrong about the Vectis damage, should be more like 1000.

That said your point still stands