A Full Rework Of The Lato And Skana Weapon Families

[JuanDeages]

Why do they need to be changed? Why even balance things that people use very few times, given that is the sole purpose of most of those weapons?

 

If your lato prime did 22k dps, something tells me you might be inclined to use it.

[Naqel]

<snip>

 

Or we could, ya know, just make the founders stuff into universal skins that let's them simply be applied to the FOTM weapon in their class.

Which solves the problem of founder weapons being sub-par INDEFINITELY, ya know FOREVER, as in, IT'LL NEVER RETURN.

 

As for base Lato/Skana, the problem with them is not with THEM, it's with DE's "optional" approach to balance.

 

Just buffing or "reworking", every single problem weapon every time something else turns out to be stronger will not solve the problem.

It's like trying to fix a cracked skull with a band-aid: about as dumb as the person you're applying it to will be afterwards.

 

Warframe's balance needs a ground up rework, an actual one, not just moving some stats around.

The problem, is people like you, who'd rather get their silly band-aid, and stop caring about the rest of the game the moment they are happy.

 

A shortsighted person like you, having the gall to say that (s)he "expected better" from the community, is quite frankly hilarious, when you're part of the problem.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

If this change was made, new players would be put at a disadvantage for starting to play the game when they did, even more so than they are currently. If the Lato and Skana Primes are best in class, this is going to happen no matter what.

 

This change would actively harm everyone that isn't a founder and fuel even more elitism/superiority from the founders and resentment/jealousy from the non-founders.

 

No thank you.

[Yezzik]

Or we could, ya know, just make the founders stuff into universal skins that let's them simply be applied to the FOTM weapon in their class.

Which solves the problem of founder weapons being sub-par INDEFINITELY, ya know FOREVER, as in, IT'LL NEVER RETURN.

 

Bingo. And if they're skins, those Founders can even get versions of them that can be applied to dual/akimbo weapons as well.

[JuanDeages]

If this change was made, new players would be put at a disadvantage for starting to play the game when they did, even more so than they are currently. If the Lato and Skana Primes are best in class, this is going to happen no matter what.

 

This change would actively harm everyone that isn't a founder and fuel even more elitism/superiority from the founders and resentment/jealousy from the non-founders.

 

No thank you.

 

They don't have to be made best in class at all, just be made viable in this state of the game. As they currently stand, the founder weapons do low tier damage. There is no reason to use them in even moderately leveled areas.

[JuanDeages]

Or we could, ya know, just make the founders stuff into universal skins that let's them simply be applied to the FOTM weapon in their class.

Which solves the problem of founder weapons being sub-par INDEFINITELY, ya know FOREVER, as in, IT'LL NEVER RETURN.

 

As for base Lato/Skana, the problem with them is not with THEM, it's with DE's "optional" approach to balance.

 

Just buffing or "reworking", every single problem weapon every time something else turns out to be stronger will not solve the problem.

It's like trying to fix a cracked skull with a band-aid: about as dumb as the person you're applying it to will be afterwards.

 

Warframe's balance needs a ground up rework, an actual one, not just moving some stats around.

The problem, is people like you, who'd rather get their silly band-aid, and stop caring about the rest of the game the moment they are happy.

 

A shortsighted person like you, having the gall to say that (s)he "expected better" from the community, is quite frankly hilarious, when you're part of the problem.

 

Making founder's gear, in any way, available to everyone, is never going to happen, and it shouldn't. Founders are backers of a then unknown commodity. This game could have failed within the first year, and they would have lost that money. They deserve something for their good faith investment.

[Yezzik]

Making founder's gear, in any way, available to everyone, is never going to happen, and it shouldn't. Founders are backers of a then unknown commodity. This game could have failed within the first year, and they would have lost that money. They deserve something for their good faith investment.

 

That's not what Naqel said at all. No part of "make the founders stuff into universal skins" translates to "give non-founders founder exclusives."

[-Kryptyk-]

Or we could, ya know, just make the founders stuff into universal skins that let's them simply be applied to the FOTM weapon in their class.

Which solves the problem of founder weapons being sub-par INDEFINITELY, ya know FOREVER, as in, IT'LL NEVER RETURN.

 

As for base Lato/Skana, the problem with them is not with THEM, it's with DE's "optional" approach to balance.

 

Just buffing or "reworking", every single problem weapon every time something else turns out to be stronger will not solve the problem.

It's like trying to fix a cracked skull with a band-aid: about as dumb as the person you're applying it to will be afterwards.

 

Warframe's balance needs a ground up rework, an actual one, not just moving some stats around.

The problem, is people like you, who'd rather get their silly band-aid, and stop caring about the rest of the game the moment they are happy.

 

A shortsighted person like you, having the gall to say that (s)he "expected better" from the community, is quite frankly hilarious, when you're part of the problem.

Right on the money. Everyone is putting me down for not being constructive on this thread when in reality the thread never needed to exist. Raging? There are multiple forms of it, but seriously, we don't need another thread suggesting a change to one weapon or family of weapons, we need a rework from the ground up. Changing stats doesn't do anything except break another small part of the game and cause more threads like this. fix the source, resolve all issues.

(And yes I did read the thread, btw)

[Azamagon]

Or we could, ya know, just make the founders stuff into universal skins that let's them simply be applied to the FOTM weapon in their class.

Which solves the problem of founder weapons being sub-par INDEFINITELY, ya know FOREVER, as in, IT'LL NEVER RETURN.

 

As for base Lato/Skana, the problem with them is not with THEM, it's with DE's "optional" approach to balance.

 

Just buffing or "reworking", every single problem weapon every time something else turns out to be stronger will not solve the problem.

It's like trying to fix a cracked skull with a band-aid: about as dumb as the person you're applying it to will be afterwards.

 

Warframe's balance needs a ground up rework, an actual one, not just moving some stats around.

The problem, is people like you, who'd rather get their silly band-aid, and stop caring about the rest of the game the moment they are happy.

 

A shortsighted person like you, having the gall to say that (s)he "expected better" from the community, is quite frankly hilarious, when you're part of the problem.

Geez, overreacting much?

 

I mean, you have a good suggestion in there: Making the founder weapons (and closed beta vandals too, imo) into universal skins would be great.

(As in: Lato Vandal/Prime can be used as a skin on MK-1 Lato, Lato and AkLato + Skana Prime can be used as a skin on MK-1 Skana, Skana, Dual Skana and Prisma Skana + Braton Vandal skin can be used on Braton and Braton Prime. Now we just need a Prisma Lato to make it all complete!)

 

But that still doesn't mean that the OP's suggestion, making MK-1 Lato and MK-1 Skana the ones we have now, while buffing the Lato, AkLato, Skana, Dual Skana and Prisma Skana, are bad ideas. It would make the starting weapon series feel more complete, that all the options you get there are MK-1 versions (although, I'd rather the starter weapons weren't MK-1 weapons in the first place, just regular weapons. The MK-1 weapons felt like a redundant addition imo, but the harm is already done now)

 

That said, yes, we still need a complete rebalancing of the game. But the OP's ideas aren't that bad as you claim them to be.

[timerwin63]

Or we could, ya know, just make the founders stuff into universal skins that let's them simply be applied to the FOTM weapon in their class.

Which solves the problem of founder weapons being sub-par INDEFINITELY, ya know FOREVER, as in, IT'LL NEVER RETURN.

 

As for base Lato/Skana, the problem with them is not with THEM, it's with DE's "optional" approach to balance.

 

Just buffing or "reworking", every single problem weapon every time something else turns out to be stronger will not solve the problem.

It's like trying to fix a cracked skull with a band-aid: about as dumb as the person you're applying it to will be afterwards.

 

Warframe's balance needs a ground up rework, an actual one, not just moving some stats around.

The problem, is people like you, who'd rather get their silly band-aid, and stop caring about the rest of the game the moment they are happy.

 

A shortsighted person like you, having the gall to say that (s)he "expected better" from the community, is quite frankly hilarious, when you're part of the problem.

 

Founders didn't pay for skins, they paid for exclusive weapons. Just because you can't have one doesn't mean you need to make it terrible for everyone who does have one who wants to use it.

 

I'm also fully aware of the fact that the balancing issues in this game are far more drastic than just these two weapon families that that buffing stuff over and over again isn't the right solution, but unfortunately, I'm only one player, and I can only do so much. Please don't attack my character for proposing a change that would patch up a broken corner of a game. Believe me, if I could rework the entire game, I would. It's just a little bit harder to do that then you think it might be.

 

If this change was made, new players would be put at a disadvantage for starting to play the game when they did, even more so than they are currently. If the Lato and Skana Primes are best in class, this is going to happen no matter what.

 

This change would actively harm everyone that isn't a founder and fuel even more elitism/superiority from the founders and resentment/jealousy from the non-founders.

 

No thank you.

 

How does this hurt new players? This bumps starter weapons down to a distinct MK-1 Tier, with an upgrade to reasonable weapons if they decide they like them. This gives new players a sense of progression, which might keep them around, seeing as it's hard enough to get started now.

 

As for this actively harming everyone, I don't see what you mean, as there are clearly equivalent or more powerful alternatives to every weapon change that I recommended. I made sure to take that argument into account.

 

Bingo. And if they're skins, those Founders can even get versions of them that can be applied to dual/akimbo weapons as well.

 

Again, Founders paid for skins, not weapons. They deserve weapons. These weapons deserve to be on the same tier as every other prime weapon in the game.

 

Right on the money. Everyone is putting me down for not being constructive on this thread when in reality the thread never needed to exist. Raging? There are multiple forms of it, but seriously, we don't need another thread suggesting a change to one weapon or family of weapons, we need a rework from the ground up. Changing stats doesn't do anything except break another small part of the game and cause more threads like this. fix the source, resolve all issues.

(And yes I did read the thread, btw)

 

People were putting you down for not being constructive because saying "no" isn't a constructive response, not because they didn't like your ideas.

 

Yes, the game needs a rework. Yes, I completely agree. Scaling, leveling, progression, it all needs to change. I understand that. But please understand that one person can only do so much, and I tried to make a logical change given the amount I have to work with.

 

 

If everyone could please understand that I don't intend for this to be a permanent fix, that'd be excellent. I simply want to be able to bring my Lato and Skana (yes, a regular Lato or Skana) with my to higher levels of gameplay because I enjoy the look and/or feel of the weapon and not get completely outclasses by every other weapon in the game.

Edited June 7, 2015 by timerwin63

[Wawazat]

new skana damage is off.

 

[(38.2*1.5*.125)+(38.2*.875)]*.979=39.7 not 51.6

 

i used the values you provided in you r suggestion. i agree that these buff would make the items more mid teir and hope DE looks at you r suggestion :)

[timerwin63]

~snip~

I adjusted the Skana Prime a bit, could you take a look and let me know what you think?

new skana damage is off.

 

[(38.2*1.5*.125)+(38.2*.875)]*.979=39.7 not 51.6

 

i used the values you provided in you r suggestion. i agree that these buff would make the items more mid teir and hope DE looks at you r suggestion :)

 

Thanks for catching that, I made sure it was right this time. I guess I copied the values from the spreadsheet wrong.

Edited June 7, 2015 by timerwin63

[WolvenEdge]

If this change was made, new players would be put at a disadvantage for starting to play the game when they did, even more so than they are currently. If the Lato and Skana Primes are best in class, this is going to happen no matter what.

 

This change would actively harm everyone that isn't a founder and fuel even more elitism/superiority from the founders and resentment/jealousy from the non-founders.

 

No thank you.

 

?w? Did you even look at the numbers? The proposed Mk.I Skana is exactly the Skana that we have now. It would not be hurting them AT ALL, it's the same bloody weapon. Being able to upgrade to the Skana shortly after would HELP new players, not hurt them. :\

 

Also, Skana Prime now looks almost exactly how I would expect a Prime version of the Skana to be. Focused, and a diagonal up/side grade from the original, enhancing its feel without just being a 'moar damij' version. Mid-range critical, with good status. ^w^ Thanks for listening to my suggestion.

Edited June 7, 2015 by WolvenEdge

[TheBrsrkr]

My question is on why Mk-1 weaponry exists in the first place. If you give a brand new player a Braton instead of a Mk-1 Braton, is he losing anything?

[JuanDeages]

That's not what Naqel said at all. No part of "make the founders stuff into universal skins" translates to "give non-founders founder exclusives."

 

Put a skana prime skin on a prisma skana. I now have a skana prime that is, for all intents and purposes, better than the one founders have.

Edited June 7, 2015 by JuanDeages

[timerwin63]

Put a skana prime skin on a prisma skana. I now have a skana prime that is, for all intents and purposes, better than the one founders have.

 

But it's still not a skana prime. It's a prisma skana. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that there are exclusive things in the world and sometimes the exclusive things don't have to be garbage?

Edited June 7, 2015 by timerwin63

[ZzVinniezZ]

suggested Aklato have 31 damage? my 6 forma Aklato amused

 

but seriously it used to have 22 damage but for some reason DE just nerf it down to 16 then buff to 18...why would u nerf a weapon that only starter use?

[DiBBz]

My question is on why Mk-1 weaponry exists in the first place. If you give a brand new player a Braton instead of a Mk-1 Braton, is he losing anything?

Mk-1 weapons are supposed to be cheaper and new players to test out the basis of these weapons... and see what they like

 

but so far DE has not done a good job managing it!

[srlhama]

Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons.

If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items?

Because now the weapons suck, and a worth gift for the players who paid to the game be free to play to us all.

The numbers on Prisma Skana look to high, I woul prefer 25% crit chance and 2.5 crit damage with little damage boost...

[Naqel]

But it's still not a skana prime. It's a prisma skana. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that there are exclusive things in the world and sometimes the exclusive things don't have to be garbage?

 

If the difference would be purely cosmetic(as it should for an item that is not commonly available), then it might as well be a cosmetic item.

 

That way it can be applied to the users favorite sword, whichever one that'd be, and it will NEVER upset the balance, and NEVER become outdated.

And it would still be something only the founders got access to.

 

The only downside, if you can even call it that, is that it's no longer technically a weapon.

Which would be great, since it'd also no longer take up an inventory slot.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Naqel

[Clone3216k]

I think the Lato/Skana prime should be buffed up to par with the end game weapons right now, but their stats and everything should still be below them to promote people to get better weapons than them. 

[Yezzik]

I think the Lato/Skana prime should be buffed up to par with the end game weapons right now, but their stats and everything should still be below them to promote people to get better weapons than them. 

 

We're only going to end up having this debate again when the power creep sets in.

 

"Founders invested money in this game at the beginning! Why aren't their Primes at least equal to these new Hyper-Primes?"

[Pixues]

(trigger warning)

 

But if Prime weapons get changed in stats, it means they are not the same weapons sold in the founders program.

This means they (whichever prime weapon has its stats changed) are no longer bound to the founders program by law.

They can be re-released. 

Either that or Prime weapon skins get released to the general public, while the actual prime weapons get their buffs.

 

(trigger warning over)

Edited June 8, 2015 by Pixues

[Yezzik]

But if Prime weapons get changed in stats, it means they are not the same weapons sold in the founders program.

This means they (whichever prime weapon has its stats changed) are no longer bound to the founders program by law.

They can be re-released. 

Either that or Prime weapon skins get released to the general public, while the actual prime weapons get their buffs.

 

The EULA states DE can do whatever they want with the service and products they allow us access to.

It's all about the SPIRIT of a contract versus the LETTER of a contract.

 

As an example, if DE were to remove all Excal Primes altogether, they could do that without founders having a leg to stand on--after all, they were given exclusive access to Excalibur Prime and nothing was said about how long that access would exist for.

 

That would be an example of obeying the LETTER of the contract. Obeying the SPIRIT would mean even if DE changed what Excal Prime was (to a skin, for example), if they kept it as restricted as it was before.

 

Also, the Founders were sold access to (for example) Excalibur Prime. Nothing ever said no part of it could ever be changed--if that were the case, then that would mean no PBR.

[Pixues]

The EULA states DE can do whatever they want with the service and products they allow us access to.

It's all about the SPIRIT of a contract versus the LETTER of a contract.

 

As an example, if DE were to remove all Excal Primes altogether, they could do that without founders having a leg to stand on--after all, they were given exclusive access to Excalibur Prime and nothing was said about how long that access would exist for.

 

That would be an example of obeying the LETTER of the contract. Obeying the SPIRIT would mean even if DE changed what Excal Prime was (to a skin, for example), if they kept it as restricted as it was before.

 

Also, the Founders were sold access to (for example) Excalibur Prime. Nothing ever said no part of it could ever be changed--if that were the case, then that would mean no PBR.

 

nuh-uh