Pc 16.9.0: Excalibur Feedback Megathread

[Jeetza]

I respect your opinion, but i'm sorry to say the vast majority don't share your opinion and like the Excal changes. In all, Excalibur's rework has been the most well received of all reworks.

[SomeCrackHead]

you guys are beginning to misunderstand eachother. i would suspect rather than he meant "no survivability" he most likely was aiming for the word "sustain".

because you know, his parrying is really helpful. untill bombarders maybe, idk havent tried.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't think you understand the point of EB at all if you say this then. EB is entirely built around synergy. It builds off of your mods, it buffs Slash Dash, and gives you a free radial blind. By itself EB is nothing without the effort put in the player and in turn is an extension of what makes Excalibur in the first place. That's what makes EB so special right now. Take it away, or add something like innate lifesteal and you remove a part of the uniqueness.

I think if you just want to spam 4 and move on then your looking for the wrong warframe.

 

 

however, i disagree with the "effort" part. where is the effort if you can just facetank and spam your waves to deal with your enemies? my suggestion was unless you kill them fast in melee range, facetanking like that should have some punishment to your energy, be it small amount just to not overdo it.. (and to give us our beloved spin attack on EB if they ever even DO  change that)

 

and as a respond to someone that says "not every1 is energy capped".. if i went below 70% then i'm for sure restricting myself from ability spam unless i use gears. you want to use blind rage for overkills in damage? pay the cost, just like all other warframes.

note that i also said the energy cost could be looked into and be reduced if it got considered too much, so far my suggestion is 3, could be 2 or 1 energy , idk

in fact, im not energy capped either, im 70 and not 75 if u will, lol.

 

 

Does EB only benefit from slash mods? or all mods add the same damage to the main input?

 

good question

Edited June 21, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[Trichouette]

How was exca balanced before ? you are talking about 2 damage ability and 2 support ability, but super jump was terribly useless (especially since we can melee in air to go higher) and slash dash dealt absolutely NO damage in end game.

 

And he was supposed to be a melee frame, not a "spam 4 to win" frame. He was used only to press 4 for javelin or 2 for blind, and that's ALL of it, how useful.

 

Now all his abilities are great, balanced, they even SCALE, which is amazing for this game, he is (with valkyr) the only frame that have ability scaling with something else than warframe mods.

 

At least now he doesn't have any useless ability.

[EinheriarJudith]

this is not so much feedback but i just want to thank DE for bringing excal into a place that fits his theme. Slash dash(though its an ability is melee oriented since he was created), radial Blind(area CC makes it alot easier to get in close and deliver melee death or prevent a bad situation on going since he was created), Thank god you banished super jump that ability imo was garbage aerial melee made sure to make that a fact, radial javelin(im glad focus has been taken away from this because im honestly tired of the radial javelin spamming drones that poluted recruitment), Exalted blade(just when i thought i couldn't be suprised you went and gave us an ult that lets us materialize energy into the form of a sword and added small radial blind to the slide attack). Thanks again DE looking forward to more reworks or improvements.

Edited June 21, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[MichaelSD]

Greetings to DE and the Warframe community.

 

This is my first post on the forums. Though I am hardly new to the game itself. 

 

     Hi.

 

     This post is in response to the recent, and very large change made to Excalibur. So now my topic title should make a little more sense. I'm sure if your reading this your probably rolling your eyes, which is fine.

 

     So on the whole, I am against the changes made to Excalibur. Now before I really get going, this post is more to get this off my chest more then anything else. I realize that whats done is done, and there is small chance that what is now, could ever go back to what it was then. And all that's left is for small tweaks to be made so that everyone can at least agree to disagree. 

 

    Now I'm of the same mindset as most that Excalibur was lack luster. He was the first frame, "Ol' reliable" if you will. So for him to feel not as shiny as he used to is to be expected, especially with the various new frames that have been released over the years. So naturally I am in accord with those that said he needed some love. But the changes made to Slash Dash, and exchanging Super jump for Exalted Blade was not the kind of love he needed. Premature, and overboard are some of the words I would choose.

 

     In his previous incarnation, Excalibur was the most balanced frame in the game. In fact he was almost perfectly balanced. He had two damage skills, and two utility skills. And both sets had their own respective secondary damage and utility. The exception to this was Super Jump, which by itself did not offer any damage properties to supplement its utility. Despite this, Excalibur was by far the most versatile and mobile frame in the game. He filled that niche, as well as the "Run n Gun" niche very well. With these new changes though, he no longer possesses the utility or versatility he once had. Now he doesn't seem to fit any role, or fill any niche's at all.. He's just another DPS frame. 

 

     I am as biased as they come. And Excal is my favorite frame. Well.. WAS my favorite frame. So DE, I can't help but feel a bit put off that y'all felt that gutting Excalibur was needed to make him better, especially when y'all got him right the first time.

 

 

     Well that's my rant.  

 

Thank you, I completly agree.

[Darkmoone1]

while i do agree with you, as far as i saw, EB duration is not based on...well...duration... its based on its efficiency. When you make a build for damage with a bit of survival buff/mod like life strike, you will have to avoid efficiency mods because you already chose damage + healing (in order to take full advantage of both)

One thing i don't understand (even if i think its pretty obvious).

Does EB only benefit from slash mods? or all mods add the same damage to the main input?

EB should benefit from all melee mods. Anything otherwise is a bug. 

 

Sorry if you got the idea that I meant duration for EB, I did mean efficiency. You don't have to cap efficiency to get a good slow drain of energy from it. I'm about 20-40% away from the cap( I mess around with it sometimes.) and it gives me enough room to build into power strength while giving me great power efficiency. 

[SomeCrackHead]

EB should benefit from all melee mods. Anything otherwise is a bug. 

 

Sorry if you got the idea that I meant duration for EB, I did mean efficiency. You don't have to cap efficiency to get a good slow drain of energy from it. I'm about 20-40% away from the cap( I mess around with it sometimes.) and it gives me enough room to build into power strength while giving me great power efficiency. 

 

his question was more like: how is the impact, puncture, slash damage (I/P/S) distributed in exalted blade? 

 

i would guess slash is the main seeing as it looks like skana and sends out slashing waves.

Edited June 21, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[GhostSwordsman]

Sadly this might require more time than DE are willing to commit to this small (but maybe complex) change.

It'd be a very welcome change, but i feel like we'd see 20 nerfs to Excal (again) before we get a change like that.

I could honestly see an addition to the 'Select Mode' button. The new mode would apply to warframes that have a unique weapon at their disposal through their powers(so Valkyr, Excal, Mesa, Ash, etc.), and what it would do is open up a mod menu like when clicking 'upgrade' on a weapon, or perhaps an 'upgrade' button could be added on to the side of the corresponding ability when you click on the abilities button to view that info.

 

And through either of these buttons we'd get a modding screen to place mods (melee, pistol, etc., depending on the weapon type) allowing us to mod the unique ability weapon.

Edited June 21, 2015 by GhostSwordsman

[Darkmoone1]

 

you guys are beginning to misunderstand eachother. i would suspect rather than he meant "no survivability" he most likely was aiming for the word "sustain".

because you know, his parrying is really helpful. untill bombarders maybe, idk havent tried.

 

 

however, i disagree with the "effort" part. where is the effort if you can just facetank and spam your waves to deal with your enemies? my suggestion was unless you kill them fast in melee range, facetanking like that should have some punishment to your energy, be it small amount just to not overdo it.. (and to give us our beloved spin attack on EB if they ever even DO  change that)

I don't believe there is a misunderstanding. It is pretty clear what he wants from the ability and what I believe as well. Our views differ and that's all. 

 

You can't just facetank as Excalibur. He can parry, but he only does it from the front side. Any attack from the sides or back will result in you getting hurt, so you will have to move around in order to get most of the enemies to face you head on. That is effort in terms of movement in order to ease the amount of damage being dealt to you. 

 

The waves don't kill enemies as easily as a direct hit. However, you can kill tons of enemies by properly aiming the blade at range so that you can get the most out of your slashes. The get the most amount of damage potential out of your waves, that also requires effort on the players part. 

 

Using abilities also isn't as easy as suspected. To get the most, you need to use both slash dash when enemies are close and nearby each other. That way one cast of Slash Dash will attack the most amount of enemies. Otherwise the constant use of Slash Dash ends up with all of your energy drained and your EB casted off. This can leave you defenseless. Therefore, careful energy management requires effort on the players part as well.

 

All of this is because of player effort. Simply mashing the E and ability buttons don't get you far as Excalibur, but rather careful and proper use of his tools. This is why EB is a very well made ability as is and should not be changed.

 

 

his question was more like: how is the impact, puncture, slash damage (I/P/S) distributed in exalted blade? 

 

i would guess slash is the main seeing as it looks like skana and sends out slashing waves.

I'm guessing slash as well. 

[SomeCrackHead]

 

Now all his abilities are great, balanced, they even SCALE, which is amazing for this game, he is (with valkyr) the only frame that have ability scaling with something else than warframe mods.

 

i would rather call it "scale according to the potatoed melee" as the only way to reduce the damage for beginners is by not having a melee with a catalyst, which in return allows for less elemental mods, after that is achieved and considering all mods are easy to get, i think the word balance is far from what it is now and it certainly doesn't "scale" just because at some point in void you start to feel your damage is reasonable. i get your point, but the wording is totally not in place. the beginners/low ranks also possess this high damage if they set their stuff right or buy that catalyst with plats. 

 

one would know what scaling means when you've played guild wars 2, that game has a level 80 dealing 150 damage in low level maps and 20 k dmg in their relevant level map. that's what scaling is. this game have had that missing and still is.

Edited June 21, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[MichaelSD]

Scaling off of the mods rather than the weapon is a good thing, but I do agree that there should probably be a way to 'mod' the energy blade without having a melee equipped. It would make for some rather interesting Excal loadouts, in my opinion.

 

That is why the lighttwig was a terrible choice in the firestplace. Excalibur is not a melee frame now, but a lighttwig frame.

 

I found the changes terrible. Found SD unreliable, so not much gain here. RB still unreliable, can stun a group in front of me and some of them are not effected. RJ is weakend further by limiting the blades and is still unreliable. EB is...not to my taste in every way possible.

[SomeCrackHead]

That is why the lighttwig was a terrible choice in the firestplace. Excalibur is not a melee frame now, but a lighttwig frame.

 

I found the changes terrible. Found SD unreliable, so not much gain here. RB still unreliable, can stun a group in front of me and some of them are not effected. RJ is weakend further by limiting the blades and is still unreliable. EB is...not to my taste in every way possible.

excalibur himself has spoken again!

[CryvernX]

use no other skills except EB and no other weapons except a melee weapon

 

 

if I have to go full melee on a ability I don't want to use other ability's or band aids to survive with that ability otherwise id just rather go around spamming 4th skills like saryn so I can easily knock out a whole room and not worry about anything in the world

i only use eb the final minutes. but if it works at those minutes. it works earlier. eb is too strong it doesnt matter if you suck really. he is too strong. too bad some people are just bad

[CryvernX]

Greetings to DE and the Warframe community.

 

This is my first post on the forums. Though I am hardly new to the game itself. 

 

     Hi.

 

     This post is in response to the recent, and very large change made to Excalibur. So now my topic title should make a little more sense. I'm sure if your reading this your probably rolling your eyes, which is fine.

 

     So on the whole, I am against the changes made to Excalibur. Now before I really get going, this post is more to get this off my chest more then anything else. I realize that whats done is done, and there is small chance that what is now, could ever go back to what it was then. And all that's left is for small tweaks to be made so that everyone can at least agree to disagree. 

 

    Now I'm of the same mindset as most that Excalibur was lack luster. He was the first frame, "Ol' reliable" if you will. So for him to feel not as shiny as he used to is to be expected, especially with the various new frames that have been released over the years. So naturally I am in accord with those that said he needed some love. But the changes made to Slash Dash, and exchanging Super jump for Exalted Blade was not the kind of love he needed. Premature, and overboard are some of the words I would choose.

 

     In his previous incarnation, Excalibur was the most balanced frame in the game. In fact he was almost perfectly balanced. He had two damage skills, and two utility skills. And both sets had their own respective secondary damage and utility. The exception to this was Super Jump, which by itself did not offer any damage properties to supplement its utility. Despite this, Excalibur was by far the most versatile and mobile frame in the game. He filled that niche, as well as the "Run n Gun" niche very well. With these new changes though, he no longer possesses the utility or versatility he once had. Now he doesn't seem to fit any role, or fill any niche's at all.. He's just another DPS frame. 

 

     I am as biased as they come. And Excal is my favorite frame. Well.. WAS my favorite frame. So DE, I can't help but feel a bit put off that y'all felt that gutting Excalibur was needed to make him better, especially when y'all got him right the first time.

 

 

     Well that's my rant.  

gotta say it.. you sir, have no clue, at all. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by CryvernX

[MichaelSD]

excalibur himself has spoken again!

 

Not for long, I won't touch the frame again. :(

[CryvernX]

im a little upset . you guys want him to be another press4towin frame, if you dont like the changes and playing a frame that actually makes you PLAY THE GAME, go back to peacemaker mesa or miasma saryn. because he is definetly one of the strongest frames atm.. no need for buffs. he can do crazy stuff right now.

Edited June 21, 2015 by CryvernX

[XxCurtennoxX]

Not for long, I won't touch the frame again. :(

Ya can't please everyone.

Apart from a few small issues, most of the community seems happy with the changes.

[MichaelSD]

The community will migrate to the next "kickass-uber" frame as it is released and leave behind the frame with the above flaws. DE did what the community asked, because that was the easiest for them and, as with many things in WF, they had no vision for the frame.

But yes, you can not please everyone...

[SomeCrackHead]

You can't just facetank as Excalibur. He can parry, but he only does it from the front side. Any attack from the sides or back will result in you getting hurt, so you will have to move around in order to get most of the enemies to face you head on. That is effort in terms of movement in order to ease the amount of damage being dealt to you. 

 

that is my definition of facetanking. you're facing your enemies, and you tank them. otherwise i'd call it superman tank

[CryvernX]

that is my definition of facetanking. you're facing your enemies, and you tank them. otherwise i'd call it superman tank

IKR??

[Darkmoone1]

that is my definition of facetanking. you're facing your enemies, and you tank them. otherwise i'd call it superman tank

And as I added, you can't just face tank them....I'm not discussing the definition of a facetank.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Darkmoone1

[MichaelSD]

No need, after the many so called fixes the Excalibur got, it is obvious.

Edited June 21, 2015 by MichaelSD

[Arzel]

Excal is a melee frame. You want mobility? Use Zephyr.

Well now he is. A week ago I would have argued that you were only half right. And I suppose that if I wanted to zoom across the entire map in one go, I would use Zephyr, or a Tipedo. But flying into walls isn't exactly my idea of mobility.

 

I disagree with the Super jump, Not only was it out of date now, come u17 it wouldn't have been worth the 10 energy it would cost to cast, I enjoy the new ability, it heavily emphasizes the fact he's a swordsman. So it works out, but that's me, and just as you I'm heavily biased, as Exal use to be my favorite until he started to loose his ability to function outside of pressing 4 repeatedly, I discovered Volt and he's still one of my favorites, but seeing that my old go to is now functional, and fun as well, Him and Chroma have the coolest Ults in the game, *That don't break the game* Cough cough (Mesa) 

 

But like I said previously, like you I'm biased to a fault.

That's what bothers me though, so far I haven't seen anything that leads me to think that Parkour 2.0 is going to include anything "Super Jump" like. Its all been wall running and line sliding stuff. But if it does, well then Excalibur is going to fall to the bottom of my favorites list with the rest of the frames I dislike. And I'll probably pick up Rhino as my new Run n Gun frame. He just wont look like Hayden..

 

See I never use frame skills as a source of DPS. Everything is about the supplementing the gun play for me. Slash Dash and Super jump provided me with the best mobility out of all the other frames. (Yeah I know about ZephyrTipedoROFLcoptering yadyadyada.. Its not the same.) Slash Dash allowed me to zoom past groups of enemies, and Super Jump allowed me to circumvent bad Pakour areas as well as a miriad of other situations. If a skill did damage too, well then it was a perk. So he never really lost his effectiveness for me. It's always been the same as day one. Well except for when they added Cloaking to super jump. That was perk too.

 

This is why I'm probably the lone tenno on the dislike side of the line. Much to my dismay..

Edited June 22, 2015 by Arzel

[SomeCrackHead]

No need, after the many so called fixes the Excalibur got, it is obvious.

i also find it weird why his work can't be released as a full version instead of a beta version... i guess it's democratic system, they wait to see peoples opinion, it's a good method... but 1k replies in one topic...

Edited June 21, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[vaugahn]

No need, after the many so called fixes the Excalibur got, it is obvious.

 

If we're going by volume of fixes, then there's not a single frame that has any sort of vision for it. 

 

But I guess we can just make up any old thing we think sounds good.