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SortaRandom

Finishers Are Slow. Let Us Rebind Them.

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I'm the OP, and the post that you quoted was me emphasizing that button clutter won't be a problem.

 

Yeah that's the problem w/ OP's suggestion, controller button clutter is already a problem and I already made my two cents in a separate post.

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Yeah that's the problem w/ OP's suggestion, controller button clutter is already a problem and I already made my two cents in a separate post.

The point is that there won't be anymore clutter. There is no problem with the suggestion. Attack = Attack, Contextual Use = Finisher. How is there any logical problem with this?

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The point is that there won't be anymore clutter. There is no problem with the suggestion. Attack = Attack, Contextual Use = Finisher. How is there any logical problem with this?

I think he just really wants people to look at his thread.

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im ok with finishers, if you want a bunch of blinded enemies dead.. shoot them?

 

This was brought up in the first thread I made. Many of us main pure-melee, and even the ones that don't are still stuck in melee every now and then if they use Excal or Valkyr.

 

Some of us can work around it even in melee mode (e.g. hitting the enemy from outside the Finisher prompt range, which I'm currently getting used to with Orthos Prime) but sadly, doing stuff like that is often borderline impossible for short-ranged weapons.

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I think he just really wants people to look at his thread.

 

I'd propose a solution catering to both players who like finishers and players who dislike taking up time with the animations. Giving an ultimate exception to both play-styles and those who fall between.
 
Melee charge attacks, a feature that was already implemented in the game but sadly no longer with us. The return of charge attacks has been widely discussed but something I think the return of the charge attacks should present is no less then working alongside the finisher mechanic.
 
The Fix:
 
- Going up to an enemy that is open to a finisher and simply holding down E over tapping the standard key will automatically send you into the finisher animation. 
 
- Another change finishers should include is, making the finisher animation based on attack speed, mods like Fury, Quickening, and when Berserk is active, should make the animation speed up.
 
>The reason I went for this idea over implementing two hotkeys is no less then making sure I cater to all Players on their respective platforms since the controllers don't really have much to any option to add more buttons. Making Finishers work on the same aspect of charge attacks while simply using a pre-existing button will allow Console players to enjoy the hopeful fix to finishers.
 
>Splitting the option from melee without triggered finishers and one that does vise versa serves to clutter the existing controls, so the best alternative to to apply the same option to one key over resorting key-binds when players want to melee either way.
 
(Note: This feature can come without Charge Attacks being implemented into the game.)
 
Note 2: Finishers need more of an actual change to how they operate over any simple band-aid solutions which cater to players who don't focus on melee orientated combat. Especially in player awareness, while you'd know Excalibur's blinded enemies from his 2nd ability are open to finishers, enemies need some sort of visible notification when they're open to a finisher. While in Dark Sector enemies open to a finisher gave up a glow, or maybe Mortal Kombat when they take a certain stance to notify the player to quickly do their fatality combo.
 
Console Controller References:
 
PS4 Controller:
 

C0Db198.png

 
Xbox One Controller:
 

mzJrHD.jpg

Don't mind the red circle only image that came up in Google search

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I've wanted finishers on the contextual action button forever. When I first started playing I used to hit that first every time

 

This would also solve another issue I run into a lot: If I'm moving too fast, or my target turns the prompt vanishes and instead of performing a finisher I perform a regular attack; thus ruining my attempt to one hit stealthy kill the enemy and often alerting the room. Very annoying to say the least.

 

+1 for contextual button. It doesn't add any clutter at all and follows control conventions from other games.

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I'd propose a solution catering to both players who like finishers and players who dislike taking up time with the animations. Giving an ultimate exception to both play-styles and those who fall between.

Melee charge attacks, a feature that was already implemented in the game but sadly no longer with us. The return of charge attacks has been widely discussed but something I think the return of the charge attacks should present is no less then working alongside the finisher mechanic.

The Fix:

- Going up to an enemy that is open to a finisher and simply holding down E over tapping the standard key will automatically send you into the finisher animation.

- Another change finishers should include is, making the finisher animation based on attack speed, mods like Fury, Quickening, and when Berserk is active, should make the animation speed up.

>The reason I went for this idea over implementing two hotkeys is no less then making sure I cater to all Players on their respective platforms since the controllers don't really have much to any option to add more buttons. Making Finishers work on the same aspect of charge attacks while simply using a pre-existing button will allow Console players to enjoy the hopeful fix to finishers.

>Splitting the option from melee without triggered finishers and one that does vise versa serves to clutter the existing controls, so the best alternative to to apply the same option to one key over resorting key-binds when players want to melee either way.

(Note: This feature can come without Charge Attacks being implemented into the game.)

Note 2: Finishers need more of an actual change to how they operate over any simple band-aid solutions which cater to players who don't focus on melee orientated combat. Especially in player awareness, while you'd know Excalibur's blinded enemies from his 2nd ability are open to finishers, enemies need some sort of visible notification when they're open to a finisher. While in Dark Sector enemies open to a finisher gave up a glow, or maybe Mortal Kombat when they take a certain stance to notify the player to quickly do their fatality combo.

Console Controller References:

PS4 Controller:

C0Db198.png

Xbox One Controller:

mzJrHD.jpg

Don't mind the red circle only image that came up in Google search

Did you seriously just paste your entire thread into mine?

Jesus christ. I can understand casually dropping a link to get a bit more attention for your thread, but man, this is just rude.

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Did you seriously just paste your entire thread into mine?

Jesus christ. I can understand casually dropping a link to get a bit more attention for your thread, but man, this is just rude.

 

Oh you guys wanted to see my two cents but keep complaining about not wanting to visit a separate thread. 

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+1 on Contextual Button for Finishers because they just make sense.

It's not a 'band-aid' fix, I don't see any problems with it. It's an actual fix that makes sense

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+1 on Contextual Button for Finishers because they just make sense.

It's not a 'band-aid' fix, I don't see any problems with it. It's an actual fix that makes sense

 

The fix is simply making two separate keys for melee, one doesn't go into any finishers while doing melee, while the other does.

 

The band-aid fix starts when OP decided to give the contextual use key into a melee key instead of responding to the general problem he presents (Slow Finishers)

 

The problem starts when players rebind their keys from X to E where they can still take advantage of finishers but whenever their's contextual use interactions they can easily accidentally hack a panel, or pick up a data-mass, or stop combat to spam some locker open, etc. 

 

Where the problem could be fixed is if OP thought it through and said:

 

 "Finishers need more of an actual change to how they operate over any simple band-aid solutions which cater to players who don't focus on melee orientated combat. Especially in player awareness, while you'd know Excalibur's blinded enemies from his 2nd ability are open to finishers, enemies need some sort of visible notification when they're open to a finisher. While in Dark Sector enemies open to a finisher gave up a glow, or maybe Mortal Kombat when they take a certain stance to notify the player to quickly do their fatality combo."

 

Because in a sense we could still keep the flow of combat with E but it would be a nice option to tap X when we see a Finisher available. Or in my case I'd like to keep finishers to one key (E) and just hold E when finishers are available.

 

What separates both of these ideas is actually FIXING the whole issue with the finishers being slow and having Finishers based on Attack Speed.

 

Really can no one think of that? 

 

X shouldn't do melee attacks but X does melee finisher as sorta another contextual use.

 

To elaborate on OP's suggestion bringing up a prompt while going up to an enemy to press X to do the finisher would be perfect.

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Oh you guys wanted to see my two cents but keep complaining about not wanting to visit a separate thread. 

A) I don't remember anyone stating explicitly that they wanted your two cents.

B) I also don't remember seeing anyone complaining about having to visit another thread. Certainly no one 'keeps' complaining about having to go to a different thread to see your idea. In the space between you posting the link and then dropping your entire thread here your name wasn't mentioned once.

 

All i see here is you disliking someone else's idea because it isn't yours, and then arguing that it's wrong (because reasons?). Also, in response to...

Where the problem could be fixed is if OP thought it through and said:

 

"Finishers need more of an actual change to how they operate over any simple band-aid solutions which cater to players who don't focus on melee orientated combat. Especially in player awareness, while you'd know Excalibur's blinded enemies from his 2nd ability are open to finishers, enemies need some sort of visible notification when they're open to a finisher. While in Dark Sector enemies open to a finisher gave up a glow, or maybe Mortal Kombat when they take a certain stance to notify the player to quickly do their fatality combo."

... that's a bit of a #$&(% thing to say ''if OP thought it through'', leading back to disliking the idea because it isn't yours. The fact of the matter is that a prompt does appear when you go to finisher an enemy, and not only that, there's smoke and particle effects pouring from their eyes. If that isn't a good enough visual indicator for you I don't know what is. Maybe a giant neon sign saying ''Stab Me''.

 

You've got your thread with your different but ultimately similar idea, stay there and stop telling us how silly this 'band-aid' is.

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Oh you guys wanted to see my two cents but keep complaining about not wanting to visit a separate thread. 

Nobody "complained" about not wanting to visit anything. We were shaking our heads because it's generally considered impolite to repeatedly advertise your own thread in someone else's. Just post a link and be done with it.

 

For the record, I read your thread and I +1'd it. The E-holding is a good idea. My only worry is that the game is currently very finicky with holding E at the beginning of combos, which is why the devs haven't been able to get the Glaive or Redeemer working perfectly yet since U13. So despite the elegance of the idea, it might be much more complicated to implement than a simple new-button rebind.

 

 

The band-aid fix starts when OP decided to give the contextual use key into a melee key instead of responding to the general problem he presents (Slow Finishers)

That is NOT the general problem that I'm presenting, that is the general problem that YOU'RE presenting in your own posts and in your own thread. The title and the OP brought up the slowness of finishers to emphasize that they have a very different role in gameplay from normal attacks; the complaint was not that the slowness itself needed to be changed. The problem presented in my thread is that they share identical input with normal attacks, which have a different role entirely.

 

Whether Finishers are too slow for their role in the game is a different topic for a different thread. I have said this multiple times. It would be great if you listened.

 

 

The problem starts when players rebind their keys from X to E where they can still take advantage of finishers but whenever their's contextual use interactions they can easily accidentally hack a panel, or pick up a data-mass, or stop combat to spam some locker open, etc.

Aside from very occasional situations in spy missions, I don't see why you would want to prioritize interacting with the world instead of one-shotting a live enemy that's right beside you. Not a very common situation.

But since this can be a real issue to players for sure, a simple fix can be to simply prioritize which prompt your character is facing. No problem.

 

 

To elaborate on OP's suggestion bringing up a prompt while going up to an enemy to press X to do the finisher would be perfect.

This has been the case for stealth finishers from day one, and I think parry finishers as well. I assume that it's a bug that it doesn't work for most Ability-forced finishers.

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snip

So you've been saying the OP's idea is all wrong, and the only difference between his suggestion and yours is what button to press? Couldn't you have said "it would be better to down E--here's a thread I made on why" instead?

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-snip-

 

I don't think you really understand, your solution just serves to place the problem on another button, and amazingly making it worse while cluttering up the uses of it.

 

I don't know if you're not paying attention but what I'm saying is you're cluttering the uses of an unnecessary key when you could use a pre-existing one other then giving one button 3 consecutive uses.

 

X should be used to activate finishers instead of acting as a melee key which allows taking advantage of finisher. Although in a perfect world E would be used simply hold it down then having to break combat even more with players reaching for a key below their three mains.

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I don't think you really understand, your solution just serves to place the problem on another button, and amazingly making it worse while cluttering up the uses of it.

 

I don't know if you're not paying attention but what I'm saying is you're cluttering the uses of an unnecessary key when you could use a pre-existing one other then giving one button 3 consecutive uses.

 

X should be used to activate finishers instead of acting as a melee key which allows taking advantage of finisher. Although in a perfect world E would be used simply hold it down then having to break combat even more with players reaching for a key below their three mains.

 

Every single point that you make here has already been addressed elsewhere in the thread.

I can't tell if you read my post that you quoted or not (either way, you appear to have misunderstood or ignored literally every point it made), but it's really looking like you're arguing just for the sake of argument rather than trying to discuss how the game could be improved.

 

Sorry, but I don't want to deal with this. I'm not going to respond to your following posts. The past two and a half pages are filled with mindless repetitive argument and the last thing I want is for this thread to be locked.

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I'd propose a solution catering to both players who like finishers and players who dislike taking up time with the animations. Giving an ultimate exception to both play-styles and those who fall between.

 

Melee charge attacks, a feature that was already implemented in the game but sadly no longer with us. The return of charge attacks has been widely discussed but something I think the return of the charge attacks should present is no less then working alongside the finisher mechanic.

 

The Fix:

 

- Going up to an enemy that is open to a finisher and simply holding down E over tapping the standard key will automatically send you into the finisher animation. 

 

- Another change finishers should include is, making the finisher animation based on attack speed, mods like Fury, Quickening, and when Berserk is active, should make the animation speed up.

 

>The reason I went for this idea over implementing two hotkeys is no less then making sure I cater to all Players on their respective platforms since the controllers don't really have much to any option to add more buttons. Making Finishers work on the same aspect of charge attacks while simply using a pre-existing button will allow Console players to enjoy the hopeful fix to finishers.

 

>Splitting the option from melee without triggered finishers and one that does vise versa serves to clutter the existing controls, so the best alternative to to apply the same option to one key over resorting key-binds when players want to melee either way.

 

(Note: This feature can come without Charge Attacks being implemented into the game.)

 

Note 2: Finishers need more of an actual change to how they operate over any simple band-aid solutions which cater to players who don't focus on melee orientated combat. Especially in player awareness, while you'd know Excalibur's blinded enemies from his 2nd ability are open to finishers, enemies need some sort of visible notification when they're open to a finisher. While in Dark Sector enemies open to a finisher gave up a glow, or maybe Mortal Kombat when they take a certain stance to notify the player to quickly do their fatality combo.

 

Console Controller References:

 

PS4 Controller:

 

C0Db198.png

 

Xbox One Controller:

 

mzJrHD.jpg

Don't mind the red circle only image that came up in Google search

  

I don't think you really understand, your solution just serves to place the problem on another button, and amazingly making it worse while cluttering up the uses of it.

 

I don't know if you're not paying attention but what I'm saying is you're cluttering the uses of an unnecessary key when you could use a pre-existing one other then giving one button 3 consecutive uses.

 

X should be used to activate finishers instead of acting as a melee key which allows taking advantage of finisher. Although in a perfect world E would be used simply hold it down then having to break combat even more with players reaching for a key below their three mains.

As a PS4 user here is the problem with your solution of holding E or PS4 holding R1 to activate Finisher

If performing a hold Melee combo...it will execute Finisher instead of the melee combo

Grim Fury's Burning Desire has a Hold E input or Hold R1....if an enemy is susceptible to finishers holding melee will activate finisher thus providing the same current issue where a player cannot utilize a melee combo and instead has to perform a finisher.

Or worse is a Glaive/Reedemer user

If they wanted to utilize 400% melee modifier on throw/shot they would not be able to as Hold melee would activate Finisher .... still leaving the issue of melee button activating finisher rather than allowing for non-finisher melee attack

SortaRandom's suggestion in this thread would not have that issue, unless your intention was not to use melee at all.

Contextual Use does not have to be an additional label such as Reload/Contextual Use

Finishers can just be prompted as Contextual Use.

PS4 controller loadout would stay the same with Circle only reading Contextual Use

In-game difference would be that Finishers would read press "Contextual Use binding" to perform finisher.

OP's suggestion in this thread is a better overall solution because of Throw/Shoot mechanics behaving as old Charge attacks with holding melee & for melee stance combos where they have a hold melee input.

Only suggestion I have: instead of rebinding Finisher button to Contextual Use

Actually re-code Finisher prompt to Contextual Use.

It seems some people are thinking if the key-bind reads Reload/Finisher/Contextual Use it is too cluttered.

If Finishers are just recoded as Contextual Use....there would not be a seperate key bind for Finishers.

Finishers would just work as, what they are, Contextual Use prompt.

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I don't think you really understand, your solution just serves to place the problem on another button, and amazingly making it worse while cluttering up the uses of it.

 

I don't know if you're not paying attention but what I'm saying is you're cluttering the uses of an unnecessary key when you could use a pre-existing one other then giving one button 3 consecutive uses.

 

X should be used to activate finishers instead of acting as a melee key which allows taking advantage of finisher. Although in a perfect world E would be used simply hold it down then having to break combat even more with players reaching for a key below their three mains.

No offence Karukiku, but due to misunderstanding or plain stupidity you're not getting the point and it's causing issues in the thread. Please go back to your one where no one will argue with you. That way the people here who understand SortaRandoms point can discuss it without incessant argumentative comments from you.

 

There's such a thing as constructive criticism, but you're not providing it. 

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I am all for more freedom and ability to choose to use or not to use finishers.

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Yes please. I pretty much exclusively use guns for stealth gameplay, because stealth finishers take so long. You really need to be able to strike quickly and move to cover before other enemies have the chance to spot you. Even if you take the lazy route and rely on Loki's invisibility, stealth finishers are still problematic because they waste so much of your invisibility duration, increasing the likelihood of being caught out in the open when it wears off.

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