The Master Forma Solution

[AlphaHorseman]

Well well well, this is a prime solution to solving a lot of leveling issues, burnout issues, incentive to get higher mastery, and actually makes me want to forma my weapons to get them to higher levels! Nice thinking! I'm gonna message Rebecca with it!

[(PSN)geb9696]

I think you're wrong but first let's look at the game and the concept of a forma.

A forma is a one time use item that amplifies the damage or utility of your weapon. But the forma is rarely ever something that gives the player instant gratification. It resets the weapon's level and requires some experience to get it as good as you had it pre-forma (whichever iteration). The catch is, it requires less levels and less grind to make it as good as it was and when maxed, provides more points for more mods than it had pre-forma. The concept of delayed gratuity means that you have to work for your eventually OP weapon. In the long run these repeat levelings should result in development of your skill using that weapon. More skill = better player.

This concept of the forma is very unlike the concept of a orokin catalyst or reactor. The potato gives instant gratuity and the points are immediately there after use. This does not build skill or weapon mastery but does make it better and makes subsequent formas more effective.

So now onto this forum post. The forma is supposed to build skill and weapon understanding. By skippng the early levels, and easily most important ones due to a weapon with no mods being far less effective than with mods, it means you miss out a great opportunity to better yourself as a player and a gamer (on higher level enemies particularly). So skipping these early levels means less skill. With less skill you get more people who can't carry their weight. With less skill, it's difficult to find good players who want to run T4s to the upper 100s since they are afraid (or choose not to) challenge themselves.

I am all for challenge and believe most people here should be too. But I know that viewpoint is not shared amongst this community, or at least not amongst the vocal ones.

I don't like the idea of MR skipping weapon ranks. It ruins the fun of playing a weapon from the start and getting better.

Now as for player burnout, that's a different story. Players get burned out when they grind themselves to oblivion and this game isn't about grind. Truly it isn't. You never have to forma a weapon or frame. You hardly have to level any weapons you don't want to. Only thing that can be remotely called grind is rerunning void missions over and over to get a piece you want. Which even then you can choose to buy with plat. Player burnout is people running draco over and over again to max and re-forma their weapons.

If you want to avoid that, stop running missions for levels. Run missions to enjoy them. To enjoy what DE has created for you. Play mission modes you like. Play it with people you know. Player burnout is the players fault, not DEs.

I have to completely disagree with you.  I really like this idea and do not have a problem with a MR 30 player only having to level a weapon once to be able to put unlimited forma on the weapon.  Given the way the MR works in order to get to level 30 you have to be a complete master of the game.  Every MR requires so much more then the prior rank that if by the time you get to rank 30 if you are not able to learn with ease then playing with it unranked an extra couple of times to get your forma on it is not going to help.  If people ever actually reach MR 30 they are going to probably 5,000 or more in game hours given how many frames and weapons that will take to reach it.  In my view this has nothing to do with player skill or learning a weapon and everything to due with eliminating useless repetitive grind in the game.

Edited July 4, 2015 by (PS4)geb9696

[AlphaHorseman]

I have to completely disagree with you.  I really like this idea and do not have a problem with a MR 30 player only having to level a weapon once to be able to put unlimited forma on the weapon.  Given the way the MR works in order to get to level 30 you have to be a complete master of the game.  Every MR requires so much more then the prior rank that if by the time you get to rank 30 if you are not able to learn with ease then playing with it unranked an extra couple of times to get your forma on it is not going to help.  If people ever actually reach MR 30 they are going to probably 5,000 or more in game hours given how many frames and weapons that will take to reach it.  In my view this has nothing to do with player skill or learning a weapon and everything to due with eliminating useless repetitive grind in the game.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I have to completely disagree with you.  I really like this idea and do not have a problem with a MR 30 player only having to level a weapon once to be able to put unlimited forma on the weapon.  Given the way the MR works in order to get to level 30 you have to be a complete master of the game.  Every MR requires so much more then the prior rank that if by the time you get to rank 30 if you are not able to learn with ease then playing with it unranked an extra couple of times to get your forma on it is not going to help.  If people ever actually reach MR 30 they are going to probably 5,000 or more in game hours given how many frames and weapons that will take to reach it.  In my view this has nothing to do with player skill or learning a weapon and everything to due with eliminating useless repetitive grind in the game.

Don't forget that you would still be limited by forma build times, so it's not like you could literally forma every weapon 8 times instantly, even with out a rank 25 cap.

[DrBorris]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

maybe, I might nerf it to half your MR (round down), but still deserve a mighty +1

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

maybe, I might nerf it to half your MR (round down), but still deserve a mighty +1

Half would not be adequate. Maybe diminishing returns every 10 levels could work. Something like every MR 1 - 10 it is every rank. Rank 11 - 20 it is half, then rank 21 - 30 is is every 3rd rank, or something like that.

[Me.Greedy]

clever thinking.. i'd buy what your selling.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Nice idea! However, as DE will unlikely do something like this, I think you should get double experience/ affinity from 0 to the equal of your mastery rank level. You get rewarded and you still have to grind a bit less, a nice compromise.

 

I support either way.

[Ninja-Kid]

Oh look, a plan to save time and money on a game designed to make you spend time and money.

See the problem?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Oh look, a plan to save time and money on a game designed to make you spend time and money.

See the problem?

Nope, meaningless grind leads to burn out. There is no reason to currently raise your mastery rank beyond 8. This gives you a reason to get your MR as high as possible.  It also reduces resentment towards receiving forma, so players keep playing longer thanks to that too.  Since people will want to rapidly hit the cap, it will also increase the range of things they farm for and promote sales of boosters.

 

The only one that can't see the bigger picture is you, my friend.

[Ninja-Kid]

Nope, meaningless grind leads to burn out. There is no reason to currently raise your mastery rank beyond 8. This gives you a reason to get your MR as high as possible. It also reduces resentment towards receiving forma, so players keep playing longer thanks to that too. Since people will want to rapidly hit the cap, it will also increase the range of things they farm for and promote sales of boosters.

The only one that can't see the bigger picture is you, my friend.

1. This game is designed for grind (spend time). Burnout is not an issue as long as player base keeps growing (which it is).

2. Yet there are a lot of MR 18-19 out there. No need to offer that big of an incentive if people are doing it anyway.

3. Forma is there to dilute drop tables.

4. Increasing the purchase of boosters is speculation. Especially when you have Draco.

Think of WF as a business. Things become clearer.

[taiiat]

with more thought on it, i continue to like the general concept.

one Level every other Mastery Rank is sufficient to alleviate that 'ugh i have to play a super boring Mission for my Weapon to be able to participate' feeling you get when you Polarize Equipment.

and one Level every other Mastery Rank would mean 14 Ranks at MR30 - which is more than enough to allow putting one or two Mods onto any Weapon, so that you can skip the truly boring stuff.

this is good, because then there's less reason to consider powerfarming, because now whether you like the Weapon or not, you atleast can not need to play Missions sub Lv10 and be super bored because your whatever can't participate for a few Missions.

that's plenty for a QoL improvement so that you aren't required to play content that is boring for you. having 8(16 w/ potato) pts on my Equipment when Polarizing it right this moment? i'd totally continue doing the same Missions i'd be playing otherwise.

sure, it would be more difficult (or just slower and less efficient, that's usually what it means), and i'm fine with that.

i'd still take that Equipment anyways, because atleast it can have a Mod or three on it, so the Equipment can be relevant enough in the Missions i want to play to continue playing them.

Edited July 6, 2015 by taiiat

[AlphaHorseman]

Oh look, a plan to save time and money on a game designed to make you spend time and money.

See the problem?

Actually, it works in the opposite direction. The problem with forma is the psychological trigger of a player saying "Ugh, I'll have to level up this stupid weapon all over again." The disdain discourages players from actually reforming a weapon, relating to the fact that forma (and plat) sales would be lost to opportunity cost. The time is being placed as a negative in a player (customer) mind, rather than a positive.

 

Subsequently, if DE implements this idea, then players would not only see the Forma as an annoyance and another item in the game that puts them behind a wait wall, it becomes something of a tool that encourages players to forma. With the tie to Mastery Rank, it encourages players to continue and build/buy weapons and Warframes, and subsequentially the slots for them as well, to continue to build/buy forma, thus boosting sales for DE in a way that is far more beneficial to the player base in terms of waiting walls, and DE in terms of sales.

 

Both groups benefit from this. Both from a business perspective and also from a gamers' perspective.

 

A players experience overall in the game (the "time" aspect of your post) would then be spent actually playing the game and enjoying themselves more so and far longer than if they were discouraged by yet another wait wall. Happier players could be more so easily incentivized into investing into more plat for forma, and thus the continued cycle of player satisfaction and DE's bottom line being met is doubly so. Thus satisfying the "money" part of your post.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Actually, it works in the opposite direction. The problem with forma is the psychological trigger of a player saying "Ugh, I'll have to level up this stupid weapon all over again." The disdain discourages players from actually reforming a weapon, relating to the fact that forma (and plat) sales would be lost to opportunity cost. The time is being placed as a negative in a player (customer) mind, rather than a positive.

 

Subsequently, if DE implements this idea, then players would not only see the Forma as an annoyance and another item in the game that puts them behind a wait wall, it becomes something of a tool that encourages players to forma. With the tie to Mastery Rank, it encourages players to continue and build/buy weapons and Warframes, and subsequentially the slots for them as well, to continue to build/buy forma, thus boosting sales for DE in a way that is far more beneficial to the player base in terms of waiting walls, and DE in terms of sales.

 

Both groups benefit from this. Both from a business perspective and also from a gamers' perspective.

 

A players experience overall in the game (the "time" aspect of your post) would then be spent actually playing the game and enjoying themselves more so and far longer than if they were discouraged by yet another wait wall. Happier players could be more so easily incentivized into investing into more plat for forma, and thus the continued cycle of player satisfaction and DE's bottom line being met is doubly so. Thus satisfying the "money" part of your post.

Exactly.  Right now, there is a lot of heat over forma dropping in C rotation of survival, so this would be a perfect time to announce a change like this.

[Sci_Ant]

I support this, as an MR 18 player I would like to see some benefit or reward given to those who have put in thousands of hours in this game and maybe even some money.

 

Excellent idea OP!

[RudyYelen]

But you need to level up your weapons to get MR point so i think it isn't best solution

[FaLKReN]

Great idea +1. Please DE, make this happen.

[Sci_Ant]

But you need to level up your weapons to get MR point so i think it isn't best solution

 

Wat.

 

The only Mastery Rank xp you get is from leveling the weapons up the first time. After a Forma you do not get any xp for MR. This has no impact on MR, but makes it more valuable.

[AlphaHorseman]

But you need to level up your weapons to get MR point so i think it isn't best solution

Only for the first instance of leveling a weapon. After that, there is no mastery gain from reforming a weapon.

 

Subsequently, players can now level up more varied weapons in a timely fashion, revealing the better potential of these weapons earlier on for players to experiment and spend time with. The more they like the weapon, the more they'd want to forma it, and the more potential sales DE could amass.

[(PSN)Killerworld]

Like the Idea but I use the Forma grind as an excuse to get the weapon's feel better, i know other players forma a weapon they like but put it on a different character for different modes [like Rhino for solo with certain weapons, Nova for defense, Nekros with Slash weaponry, etc]. Maybe half of MR? What if they decide to raise MR to 60 if Warframe is still loved[i'm sure it will be :] ] by the time 30 is implemented.. 

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

Forma is one of the reasons I can't get back into this game. Everytime I log in I see some new weapons that I'd like to use, but have to lvl to 30 6 times before I can. Then I have to farm forma and I get caught in a loop of void and sechura and end up burnt out fast. This would not only alleviate that a bit, but give me reason to care about MR.

[BrazilianJoe]

You know, I think that granting the weapon/frame one level for every (5 or even 10) MR is enough...

 

If you count them top-to-bottom. 

 

The higher you go, the more XP it takes. Capping off the last level would cut off a great deal of farming for forma purposes. 

 

Cutting off the XP grind of the last (3/4/5/6) levels would make it sooo much easier and have a greater impact to this whole Grind-QoL releveling thing. 

[Volume]

Needs balance consideration, like maybe a MR 17 player can *choose* to set it to rank 0, or pay credits/cores/some-other-item "forma-enhancer-deluxe-void-infused-goodness-vazarian-core" or something to set it to up to rank 17, and some cost is required to put it at your mastery rank (but it's still *possible*).

 

Not paying plat, but paying something else, because I feel like it's pretty easy right now, and it'll just get even easier.

[BrazilianJoe]

Needs balance consideration, like maybe a MR 17 player can *choose* to set it to rank 0, or pay credits/cores/some-other-item "forma-enhancer-deluxe-void-infused-goodness-vazarian-core" or something to set it to up to rank 17, and some cost is required to put it at your mastery rank (but it's still *possible*).

 

Not paying plat, but paying something else, because I feel like it's pretty easy right now, and it'll just get even easier.

Giving up a Core from Simaris of the same polarity of what you are forma'ing.

 

But I don't see it as something requiring that  extra wall.

 

The balance needed is:

 

Will you count bottom-up or top-bottom?

How many MR points are worth one weapon level?

Edited July 10, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[(PSN)MikeCopa]

I propose this for the next fan concept of the week and by propose I mean: This needs to happen asap please! :D