Magnum Force Really Needs A Buff.

[Xhos]

 +66% damage and reduces accuracy by 33%. Only useful on the Brakk (imo). But it's still weak. Make it like Heavy Caliber. Buff it. Pl0x.

[(PSN)KJamz]

Pistol have a 220% damage mod, 120% multi shot mod and a 60% multi shot mod (lethal torrent), out of everything pistol have the most damage mods, thus most of the time magnum force isn't needed and buff will make every pistol way too overpowered

IMO the melee and a few rifle/shotgun mods need to be buffed, pistols are in a very good place atm

Edited July 4, 2015 by (PS4)KJamz

[Grom-84]

And still it takes 2 clips from marelok to the head to kill lvl 70+ bombard.

[Gahrzerkire]

And still it takes 2 clips from marelok to the head to kill lvl 70+ bombard.

 

enemies are balanced to level 50. what we need to do is get a smarter AI. However I say no. pistols are powerful enough. if anything needs a buff its snipers andshotguns.

[RealPandemonium]

And still it takes 2 clips from marelok to the head to kill lvl 70+ bombard.

Assuming this build: http://goo.gl/9WDMWx

 

The average headshot on a level 70 Bombard will deal 3218 damage, so it would usually take 7 shots to bring him down.  That's 1.17 clips.  

 

However, we have to include the possibility of Slash procs contributing some damage.   Each headshot Slash proc will deal 716 damage initially and 4296 further damage over the next 6 seconds, for a total of 5012 damage per proc.  In the event of a critical headshot, the Slash proc will deal 10024 total damage.  Factoring the build's 33% critical chance in, the average headshot Slash proc will deal 6666 total damage.

 

The chance of inflicting a Slash proc with this build is 15% per bullet, and 2.8 bullets are fired per shot. 

 

With each trigger pull, you have a 36% chance of inflicting at least one Slash proc.

 

One Slash proc would take 3 seconds to add as much damage as firing an additional shot would.  Because odds are you'll proc at least once in your 6 shots, we can estimate that, in fact, this build (a common build for dealing with Alloy Grineer) requires only one clip or less to kill a level 70 Bombard by shooting them in the head.  

Edited July 5, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Thrymm]

I agree that pistols are powerful enough as is, but that doesn't detract from the fact that this mod is outright useless.  It simply doesn't deliver enough damage bonus for its cost, especially with the accuracy debuff, even though accuracy debuff is often a moot point on anything but a slow firing semi auto.

[Grom-84]

Assuming this build: http://goo.gl/9WDMWx

 

The average headshot on a level 70 Bombard will deal 3218 damage, so it would usually take 7 shots to bring him down.  That's 1.17 clips.  

 

However, we have to include the possibility of Slash procs contributing some damage.   Each headshot Slash proc will deal 716 damage initially and 4296 further damage over the next 6 seconds, for a total of 5012 damage per proc.  In the event of a critical headshot, the Slash proc will deal 10024 total damage.  Factoring the build's 33% critical chance in, the average headshot Slash proc will deal 6666 total damage.

 

The chance of inflicting a Slash proc with this build is 15% per bullet, and 2.8 bullets are fired per shot. 

 

With each trigger pull, you have a 36% chance of inflicting at least one Slash proc.

 

One Slash proc would take 3 seconds to add as much damage as firing an additional shot would.  Because odds are you'll proc at least once in your 6 shots, we can estimate that, in fact, this build (a common build for dealing with Alloy Grineer) requires only one clip or less to kill a level 70 Bombard by shooting them in the head.  

It's all theory to many "if's", "chances", dependencies on "right procs" etc... I'm more concerned about practical results which i see  during playthrough. And thats marelok the only one viable from semi auto pistols and the rest are just meh.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Grom-84

[RealPandemonium]

It's all theory to many "if's", "chances", dependencies on "right procs" etc... I'm more concerned about practical results which i see  during playthrough. And thats marelok the only one viable from semi auto pistols and the rest are just meh.

Tell DE to fix armor scaling.  Then, suddenly, all pistols are fine again.  

 

As for "practical results," it sounds more like you're talking about DPS charts than actual gameplay experience.  People ignoring game mechanics is why their feedback is a such a joke.  If you actually used the build and hit the Bombard in the head, you would find that it would take one clip or less almost always, and 7 bullets only in the worst possible case.  Either way, it takes less than two clips, so pay up.  :P

Edited July 5, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Thrymm]

On topic, I think the most important thing to take away from that build is this:

 

It has a combo status mod in it that is cheaper to equip than Magnum Force.  It gives slightly less damage to the build, but gives a healthy chunk of status chance.

 

Magnum Force, by contrast, would require a full extra forma and produce less results.  While I admit that I have not tried an accuracy debuff on the Marelok(because Magnum Force sucks), if it behaves at all like the Grinlok with an accuracy debuff you pay for it big time(the Heavy Caliber accuracy debuff is immediately and horribly noticeable on this weapon).  You not only would proc the valuable status less often, but you'd have a good chance of not landing those head shots in the first place.

 

In other words, even with pistols generally in a good place, this mod could afford to be buffed to Heavy Caliber level, in my opinion.  Doing so would be a boon to short range "spray" type weapons, but wouldn't necessarily boost accurate style ranged weapons into a bad place because by their nature accurate ranged pistols will tend to feel the accuracy drop off.

[Sakatchi]

I like how the second reply was someone complaining about balance, when someone tried to suggest rebalancing a unbalanced mod.

So lets spell it out for the balance people.

 

Magnum Force costs 14 points, and gives you a whole 66% damage buff, with -33% acc

A dual stat mod costs 7 points, gives you 60% damage, and 60% status chance.

 

Magnum force is also a 10 rank mod.

Dual stat mods are 3 rank.

 

Putting all that together, a more astute person should see a bit of an issue here. But let me spell it out for those that enjoy not reading things.

 

A rank 10 mod, that every one still has access too, thats litteraly double the cost of dual stat mods, should offer more than a 6% damage increase, when it has built in balancing features.

 

And this is the point were someone will always go "Secondarys have better mods, so you cant possably have a heavy calabur for secondarys. It would be too op!"

 

Thing is though, assuming it does get buffed, they probably arent going to touch the mod cost. So thats a 14 point mod you need to fit in. And that takes forma. You're probably going to need to forma the gun at least 4 times, 3 maybe if youre lucky and dont have to get rid of a d, or actually have 2 vs built in.

Any gun when formad is op compaired to its normal self. Thats an investment, everyone can do it.

 

If you find it too op, then start fighting stuff in later level planets, run around ceres with it, or do voids, or raids. You'll be happyer with it when you actually need the thing.

[HAYABU5A]

+1 it needs a change of some kind, any kind - just make it worth using 

[Grom-84]

Tell DE to fix armor scaling.  Then, suddenly, all pistols are fine again.  

 

As for "practical results," it sounds more like you're talking about DPS charts than actual gameplay experience.  People ignoring game mechanics is why their feedback is a such a joke.  If you actually used the build and hit the Bombard in the head, you would find that it would take one clip or less almost always, and 7 bullets only in the worst possible case.  Either way, it takes less than two clips, so pay up.  :P

Well id like to tell them for sure) but nobody gonna listen) And by the way im using kinda similar build on marelok but i have Max Prime Heated Charge, Max Primed Pistol Gambit and instead of scorch im using Max Magnum force, and still yes it takes more than one clip in practice. Because - not every time you will have your shots trippled, not all af those shots will hit the head because those additional bullets flying out in like 10 degree cone, sometimes you will get impact procs which again most likely will force you to miss, and another downside using radiation that the rest of the mobs kinda don't care about that damage type.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Grom-84

[RealPandemonium]

Well id like to tell them for sure) but nobody gonna listen) And by the way im using kinda similar build on marelok but i have Max Prime Heated Charge, Max Primed Pistol Gambit and instead of scorch im using Max Magnum force, and still yes it takes more than one clip in practice. Because - not every time you will have your shots trippled, not all af those shots will hit the head because those additional bullets flying out in like 10 degree cone, sometimes you will get impact procs which again most likely will force you to miss, and another downside using radiation that the rest of the mobs kinda don't care about that damage type.

Magnum Force won't help your damage more than another elemental mod of the relevant type.  Radiation is good against Lancers, Bombards, and Napalms while being poor against shields and Infested.  It is neutral against everything else.  Because armor scaling is the main limiting factor as levels go up, it would be wise to carry both a Corrosive and a Radiation weapon, since Grineer are the only things that get too tough to kill without ignoring armor.  It makes sense to run Corrosive on your primary and Radiation on your secondary weapon.  You can then put Mag/Toxin on your melee to deal with stubborn Moas/Nullifiers when you're in the void.  

 

If I were you, I would replace the Magnum Force with a dual status mod because Slash procs do a lot of damage, and it ignores armor.  

Edited July 6, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[JuanDeages]

I agree that pistols are powerful enough as is, but that doesn't detract from the fact that this mod is outright useless. It simply doesn't deliver enough damage bonus for its cost, especially with the accuracy debuff, even though accuracy debuff is often a moot point on anything but a slow firing semi auto.

I largely agree with this. My two cents:

The -33% accuracy sometimes produces strange results, as heavy caliber sometimes does, making the end accuracy value far lower than what is advertised. For damage that is barely above a 60% dual stat, it should deal more damage, have a more true 33% debuff, or both.

Edited July 6, 2015 by JuanDeages

[Pyus]

Kind of  late to the party, but my two credits:

 

Magnum force is weak, however if you are building out a Ember - Atomos/Accelerant build, then Magnum force is one more non-elemental damage type to bring to the party. Focusing on a particular damage type or set is the only reason to use Magnum force as is. 

[Azamagon]

If any buff is gonna be given to Magnum Force, a big overhaul to Corrupted mods needs to be done first:

 

* Corrupted mods' positive boost is always stronger than the regular mods' counterpart (as in, Magnum Force is stronger in its benefits than Hornet Strike), but as we all know, they have negative stats too (Magnum Force reduces accuracy, Hornet Strike does not)

* Corrupted mods do not stack with the regular counterpart (as in, Magnum Force cannot be equipped at the same time as Hornet Strike)

 

Tadaaaa! Corrupted mods are now ALL a worthwhile investment and a real choice

[Thelonious]

If any buff is gonna be given to Magnum Force, a big overhaul to Corrupted mods needs to be done first:

 

* Corrupted mods' positive boost is always stronger than the regular mods' counterpart (as in, Magnum Force is stronger in its benefits than Hornet Strike), but as we all know, they have negative stats too (Magnum Force reduces accuracy, Hornet Strike does not)

* Corrupted mods do not stack with the regular counterpart (as in, Magnum Force cannot be equipped at the same time as Hornet Strike)

 

Tadaaaa! Corrupted mods are now ALL a worthwhile investment and a real choice

 

I think that stacking shouldn't be allowed for any mod. Including dual-stat mods.

 

One mod for each stat, nothing more. And then the different types of mods would become upgrades/sidegrades of one another.

 

Normal > Dual-stat > Corrupted > Prime

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

And still it takes 2 clips from marelok to the head to kill lvl 70+ bombard.

really? normal or vaykor marelok?

[Epicagemo]

I got 3 shots on my viral/heat vaykor on a void bombard @ 70 :)

[Asokah]

Pistol have a 220% damage mod, 120% multi shot mod and a 60% multi shot mod (lethal torrent), out of everything pistol have the most damage mods, thus most of the time magnum force isn't needed and buff will make every pistol way too overpowered

IMO the melee and a few rifle/shotgun mods need to be buffed, pistols are in a very good place atm

You don't need to buff Magnum Force from  66 % to 1xx % damage...  Just 99 % is enough to being viable against elemental mods  ;) 

[BrazilianJoe]

 

Magnum is buff enough for the 70s.

 

 

The ice cream gets smaller all the time, it deserves a buff though.

 

As for Magnum Force, when looking at it standalone, or in paper comparisons yeah maybe.

 

Problem is, it's a raw damage mod.

 

THose mods are a problem in general in warframe because they are not real choice. 

 

Serration/Hornet Strike etc. should go away and have their damage buff tied to leveling up the weapon. That would give us one more slot for *whatever*. It is only weak when compared to the uber-imbalanced, not-a-real-choice raw damage mods. 

 

IMO if Warframe needs raw damage mods, they should be modeled after Magnum Force, ie: not a huge buff, and have a tradeoff. 

[Terron_11]

 

Edited July 20, 2015 by Terron_11

[Terron_11]

 +66% damage and reduces accuracy by 33%. Only useful on the Brakk (imo). But it's still weak. Make it like Heavy Caliber. Buff it. Pl0x.

+1