Petition To Remove Resources From High Tier Void Missions

[Lowsodium]

I have to disagree. If DE induces more grind, but players are still playing the game regardless, but for even longer, then obvious the business model is working. DE has the statistics, and there would be no point in making them up, as that is what they would use to project revenue.

 

Basically, the only way I see DE would reduce grinding is if they see that a lot of players are quiting due to the grinding. As of now, they see the opposite. They know you love their game too much.

 

You say this like it's a good thing. This game is so grindy that myself and may people I know would never EVER suggest this game to a friend. It's working, but it will never get better unless DE starts to focus on more than just locking the player base into more and more grind.

 

Not to mention the fact that many people see developers who treat the players like mice in a skinner box as evil. Because of the kind of thing they are creating with Warframe I don't trust DE, plain and simple. And I will never trust them to work on any other video game either without tainting it with that same kind of evil. That will try to create a trap for players rather than create something good and fun that will leave a positive step in the history of gaming.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Lowsodium

[(PSN)samppaH]

Remove also Control modules and alloy plates

Control modules are suppouse to be rare but they drop like candy in void >:/

And There is no use for alloy plate at all! And it doesn't make sense that alloyplate is main drop in void towers where everything is golden!

[Tarror]

You say this like it's a good thing. This game is so grindy that myself and may people I know would never EVER suggest this game to a friend. It's working, but it will never get better unless DE starts to focus on more than just locking the player base into more and more grind.

 

Not to mention the fact that many people see developers who treat the players like mice in a skinner box as evil. Because of the kind of thing they are creating with Warframe I don't trust DE, plain and simple. And I will never trust them to work on any other video game either without tainting it with that same kind of evil. That will try to create a trap for players rather than create something good and fun that will leave a positive step in the history of gaming.

 

Hey, I'm just being realistic. I hate grind as much as the next guy.

 

I started playing this game a few months ago because warframe was one of the top 20 most played games on Steam. That's impressive for a free to play game. Whatever they are doing, its working, and players are staying longer and increasing the games popularity. Even if you don't recommend it to people, by staying in the game, we, the community, attract new players, especially players willing the pay.

 

Developers wouldn't care if you don't trust them, love them, or whatever you expect them to be, just as long as you play their game, and earn them money. 

[PainisDeWitt]

I totally agree, bumping this post up :)

[Lowsodium]

Developers wouldn't care if you don't trust them, love them, or whatever you expect them to be, just as long as you play their game, and earn them money. 

 

Some actually do believe it or not.

 

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

Except frustrating potential customers is not a good business model.

If actually reducing the copius amount of grind this game has is going to hurt DE significantly, it shows how fragile their business model.

90% of statistics are made up.

FTP games ARE a very fragile business model, that's why most fail.

The only other options DE has is either subscription based, expansion based, or to bring in ads. Most of the community has said they would quit if ads were brought in. If they sell individual expansions, they divide customer base, and the game since there's no campaign, and little lore, and everyone hates sub based games.

The ONLY point to WF is getting loot, negate the grind for that loot, you have no game.

If you hate the grind, WF isn't for you.

Edited July 15, 2015 by (PS4)GbHaseo

[(PSN)rengence]

First off, welcome to the #RemoveRotationCForma club.

Secondly, as long as forma are used up in something other than gear I'm fine. But as it stands, we are not able to sacrifice or trade in formas for an upgrade or other gear. 

Is it disappointing, yes, but I would recommend when going into a void mission...always expect forma. The sadness will become bearable.

[(PSN)NewYorkGameflow]

+1 Agreed.

After 100+ keys, I gave up trying to get Ash P. Too much grind man, I got burnt. If it wasnt for all these resource rewards the drop rate on Ash parts would have been... tolerable.

Anyone whos ever farmed 100 void keys knows its not an easy grind. Especially if youre going after specific keys.

[Bongever]

This. Also, I agree with the other guy in the last page that said more missions need Caches.

 

Increased Exploration? Check.

Larger amounts of Loot? Check

Less frustrating Reward systems? Check

Happier Players? Check

Open Wallets for DE to peruse through sale of cosmetics instead of frustrated farmers who cant get their Prime on? Checkerino

[Brahkest]

FTP games ARE a very fragile business model, that's why most fail.

The only other options DE has is either subscription based, expansion based, or to bring in ads. Most of the community has said they would quit if ads were brought in. If they sell individual expansions, they divide customer base, and the game since there's no campaign, and little lore, and everyone hates sub based games.

The ONLY point to WF is getting loot, negate the grind for that loot, you have no game.

If you hate the grind, WF isn't for you.

But if you hate the grind, then why play the game? DE would lose players either way then yes? Too much grind, then leave. Not enough grind and you have everything, then leave.

 

The problem isn't the grinding itself, we all know that's what you do in WF. The problem is the amount of grind. RNG is apart of many games, there's nothing wrong with it but that doesn't mean the system can't be tweaked. It doesn't mean RNG has to be set in stone. What's wrong with removing two items from a drop table? In t3 survival alone, rotation c nets you forma, cells, nova chassis, volt chassis, rhino chassis, sicarus bp, bo prime bp, and an ash systems. Remove forma and cells and that still leaves you with 1 out of 6 chances to get an ash part rather than 1 out of 8. It's still RNG but it's not like it's handing it out to you like 1 out of 3 chances. Not to mention the drops are weighted. The parts people want are still just as hard to get.

 

Everyone knows how diluted rotation c is in many missions and I doubt it would be a deal breaker to people to get a prime part just 1% easier. And by removing cells and forma, there's still RNG in many other missions that would still keep players playing like interception, defense, etc. I doubt that removing some resources would instantly make the grind less RNG. It would at least make it more tolerable.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong though. WF needs RNG to keep players paying for convenience and whatnot. But you can't ignore that people will leave as well if they get frustrated. Saying that WF isn't for you if you don't like grind might as well come with no FTP game is for you because of grind. Grind can be changed but we still need it in some form or another. There just needs to be a sense of balance and not dilution.

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

Except cosmetics don't support FTP fully and don't give enough profit to release constant content.

DE has roughly 200 employees, lets say they all make the average 30-50k a year, that's 6-10 million dollars a year in revenues, then add building rent, cafeteria, supplies, computers, bonuses, legal fees, utilities, cleaning staff etc. They probably need revenues of around 15-20 million a year to operate and deliver content at their current pace.

So with WF designed as it currently, how exactly do they reduce the grind, and give you these awesome warframes for free, and still bring in that type of steady income?

You're mad bc you can't get some parts, for what's really not that great of a frame? You can buy Ash Prime in trading for as little as 200 P. I just made that yesterday selling mods I earned in Spy and through the Syndicate.

Other than making Formas give ducats, there's nothing DE can do. They'd need to completely rework the game to do what you're asking, and I doubt those options would fund DE to constantly release stuff like they do.

I've been playing since Feb. I have a job, a wife who works and goes to school, and a kid, yet in the hour or two I get a day to play, I have 80% of the game's loot and I've spent $10. That's pretty fair to me.

Edited July 15, 2015 by (PS4)GbHaseo

[(PSN)lupowolfen]

FTP games ARE a very fragile business model, that's why most fail.

The only other options DE has is either subscription based, expansion based, or to bring in ads. Most of the community has said they would quit if ads were brought in. If they sell individual expansions, they divide customer base, and the game since there's no campaign, and little lore, and everyone hates sub based games.

The ONLY point to WF is getting loot, negate the grind for that loot, you have no game.

If you hate the grind, WF isn't for you.

 

 

I agree with this.  There has to be a grind for there to be a game.  No grind means no loot and most people play the games to advance, get better and get loot.  If you give everything away up front and make everyone a God to start, people will come in and play for a very short time, get bored because there is nothing new to do and quit.

[Sovamorne]

Why not just change void rotation from AABC to ABCC? It'd reward you for sticking around when the difficulty gets ramped up as time passes.

[Buzkyl]

I agree with this.  There has to be a grind for there to be a game.  No grind means no loot and most people play the games to advance, get better and get loot.  If you give everything away up front and make everyone a God to start, people will come in and play for a very short time, get bored because there is nothing new to do and quit.

Except no one is trying to remove grind entirely, stop thinking in extremes. People are asking for grind to be reduced by  a reasonable amount. Removing uneeded resources from High tier missions will not suddenly have every rare item drop. That is not how RNG in this game works. There is zero need to give x3 cells in T4/T3 when atleast 3 places on the starchart are readily available. Forma BP on rotation C has no meaning being there as it is available on both A and B.

 

Except cosmetics don't support FTP fully and don't give enough profit to release constant content.

DE has roughly 200 employees, lets say they all make the average 30-50k a year, that's 6-10 million dollars a year in revenues, then add building rent, cafeteria, supplies, computers, bonuses, legal fees, utilities, cleaning staff etc. They probably need revenues of around 15-20 million a year to operate and deliver content at their current pace.

So with WF designed as it currently, how exactly do they reduce the grind, and give you these awesome warframes for free, and still bring in that type of steady income?

You're mad bc you can't get some parts, for what's really not that great of a frame? You can buy Ash Prime in trading for as little as 200 P. I just made that yesterday selling mods I earned in Spy and through the Syndicate.

Other than making Formas give ducats, there's nothing DE can do. They'd need to completely rework the game to do what you're asking, and I doubt those options would fund DE to constantly release stuff like they do.

I've been playing since Feb. I have a job, a wife who works and goes to school, and a kid, yet in the hour or two I get a day to play, I have 80% of the game's loot and I've spent $10. That's pretty fair to me.

 

Getting into hypotheticals will get you nowhere, because you nor I are DE's accountant.

 

Using the argument "Reducing the grind will cut in DE's wallet" has never proved to be solid, because DE themselves can make grinding easier and maintain a fair F2P profile. Let's go over the many times this argument has been said.

 

Warframe parts weren't a guaranteed drop, many many updates ago. You would spend countless runs just hoping for a BP to drop and Lotus help you if it's the same BP you got last time. With Nekros they changed all bosses to have guaranteed  WF part drops, and look, the game is still alieved even though they drastically decreased the grind of aquiring a new WF.

 

Trading was also a popular source for that argument. Many feared DE would go out of business if players were allowed to trade platinum. Has DE gone out of business since trading happened? No, infact trading stimulated even more plat sales likely because plat is now being circulated within the game.

 

Nothing DE can do? Yeah right.

 

-Giving forma/forma BP ducat value

-Removing Cells/uncommon cores from drop tables of Void

-Giving the derelict a proper drop table including removing T1 keys and resources.

-Have credits given for enemies, lockers and crates scale with level.

 

4 simple things DE can do to lessen the grind on the entire game. It's not that hard, so don't make it appear so.

[(PSN)lupowolfen]

Except no one is trying to remove grind entirely, stop thinking in extremes. People are asking for grind to be reduced by  a reasonable amount. Removing uneeded resources from High tier missions will not suddenly have every rare item drop. That is not how RNG in this game works. There is zero need to give x3 cells in T4/T3 when atleast 3 places on the starchart are readily available. Forma BP on rotation C has no meaning being there as it is available on both A and B.

 

 

 

I didn't say to stop the grind entirely.  I was just using an analogy and did not mean to sound extreme.  I think some grind is necessary and it sounds like you do too.   The level of grind that is the sweet spot is subjective.   Honestly I don't have a real problem with the level of grind now.  I have plenty of gear and am still interested in playing the game.   I'm sure there is a sweet spot that DE wants to hit with just enough grind to keep people interested.  If people are really quitting the game because of too many formas dropping in T4 then by all means DE should change it.  As I said in a previous post,  I think it would be nice if DE gave formas a ducat value.  That would require no change to the drop table and make people happier when a forma drops.  

[Serialkillerwhale]

Have another +1 and bump.

[FlorpO]

OP has an entitlement issue. Buy plat to get what you want faster. If its worth your time to make a forum thread to complain how about how much time it takes to farm in a free game, it's probably a game you like enough to invest into the development of.

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

Except no one is trying to remove grind entirely, stop thinking in extremes. People are asking for grind to be reduced by  a reasonable amount. Removing uneeded resources from High tier missions will not suddenly have every rare item drop. That is not how RNG in this game works. There is zero need to give x3 cells in T4/T3 when atleast 3 places on the starchart are readily available. Forma BP on rotation C has no meaning being there as it is available on both A and B.

There are ppl who believe grind should be removed on these forums, this was aimed at them. There's a lot that want guarunteed primes from cap,MD, and Ext, when those take maybe 5-10 mins.

Also C rotation on T3 and T4 are easily gotten to with basic frames and weapons, it's not some hard chore. Also not all of us are Draco farmers, I myself am always in need of Cells and Forma. Cores are also always welcome as I've got plenty of mods that need upgraded. I really wouldn't mind Formas giving ducats though, but I'm not short on those, so they'd just be another resource building up.

Ppl act like the grind is the only way to get new primes. As stated, trading if you're patient can solve all your issues.

[LeaserResael]

They ONLY need to remove formas and other resources from rotation C, that's where most of the issues are coming from, it's REALLY tiring to get a forma at 20, 40, 60, etc.

It totally pushes people away the fact that you don't get rewarded by staying more, I'd say it's the complete opposite really, the more you stay, the more you feel insulted when you get a forma bp.

AT LEAST remove those resources from that rotation, and reward people for staying more. I don't even care going past 40 min right now, as it's not worth it,

Yes, I get it, it's a f2p game and they need to make money, but right now it's just grindframe, and they are TOTALLY contradicting the whole "we want it to be less grindy", yeah, I'm sure you want that, that's the main problem, don't say you want less grind and then just increase it a lot, come out and say "Yes, we want the game to be like this".

It's frustating for people with little time to play, because you either get SUPER lucky, or just give up and buy it. And when a game pushes people to do that, well... something's not right, you SHOULD WANT to spend money on a game, not feel forced to.

Edited July 16, 2015 by LeaserResael

[-AoD-Sgt.Drake]

Agreed

[(XBOX)SlyTYRANT]

R5 5 packs would be nice in survival like they used to be. Never can have to many r5 cores. But orokin cells and forma and Rot C should not be a thing specially in T4.

[(XBOX)SlyTYRANT]

They have gotten worse since February. I'm going to save my keys and just play tac alerts until this game is fixed.

Specially with all the new games coming out , warframe better get its act together.

[robrob123]

Agreed

[RainbowCandyCat]

I have to agree with this. it is frustrating when I spend 4 waves on draco get the key and get a forma in the mission. Then it leads to me doing draco again and again. and getting formas again and again. and then thats not even farming for Ducats, But it got better they nerfed ducat prices! Yay.

[hammerheathen]

We are behind this petition