Exalted Blade Makes Excalibur A Living Fluctus And Deafeats The Ability Purpose

[motorfirebox]

Well, for one thing, other frames don't get 150k damage for free.  

Well, yes, they do. Or at least they get it for as little as Excal gets it. Off the top of my head, I've got a Saryn build that can put out 250k damage across 20 enemies for 25 energy.

[RealPandemonium]

Well, yes, they do. Or at least they get it for as little as Excal gets it. Off the top of my head, I've got a Saryn build that can put out 250k damage across 20 enemies for 25 energy.

12500 per enemy.  My EB was doing upward of 90k on level 30 heavy gunners after armor, and it wasn't even optimized. 

 

Btw, that Saryn build you have is a generic power strength build.  It just happens to benefit Miasma more than any other nuke due to negative duration tripling its base damage, which is then modified by power strength.  Transient Fortitude is twisted like that for Saryn.  

[Emeraudes]

I play Excalibur myself, so here are my few cents:

 

the Exalted Blade´s waves don´t fit Excals kit at all, the blade should in my opinion be melee only (and best melee weapon in the game), consume lots of energy or have a cooldown...

 

Then again, I honestly think that DE should lower maximal power level all frames can achieve. I mean, having soloable T4 missions in a multiplayer game is just stupid, not to mention the games difficulty is diminished for new players by high level ones farming low level content. Basicaly nerf every single frame and mod scaling in the game and move relevant drops to earlier waves of (relatively to players power) stronger enemies.

 

Also, crafting recipes and materials for high-level play (primes etc.) should be only obtainable trough the most challenging content, thus players have something to shoot for. :)

 

But then what is the point of getting the high level content if they're underwhelming in power as well, just for the bragging rights?

 

Soloable any missions could have been done because some people do not have access to any kind of fast and stable internet connection to most other players. Unless this suggestion is meant for DE to alienate those players as well.

[Beas7ie]

I play Excalibur myself, so here are my few cents:

 

the Exalted Blade´s waves don´t fit Excals kit at all, the blade should in my opinion be melee only (and best melee weapon in the game), consume lots of energy or have a cooldown...

 

Then again, I honestly think that DE should lower maximal power level all frames can achieve. I mean, having soloable T4 missions in a multiplayer game is just stupid, not to mention the games difficulty is diminished for new players by high level ones farming low level content. Basicaly nerf every single frame and mod scaling in the game and move relevant drops to earlier waves of (relatively to players power) stronger enemies.

 

Also, crafting recipes and materials for high-level play (primes etc.) should be only obtainable trough the most challenging content, thus players have something to shoot for. :)

 

 

The problem is the "difficulty levels" of the enemies.  These frames and weapons need to be crazy OP for "normal" missions just to survive in higher level void missions.  Especially ones that are "endless" like Survival and Defense.  This is all due to the difficulty level increasing artificially in which at higher levels enemies just get more health, shields, damage, etc until they're basically high level bullet sponges that can drop a fully shielded Rhino with Honey Badger mode on in just 4 or 5 bullets.

 

To fix this enemies need to be changed so they get more naturally difficult and instead of just getting super buffs, they get smarter.  They dodge and duck and get special abilities when they get higher level instead of just super durability and tankiness mixed with being able to drop a full health "tanky" frame in just a few seconds.

 

And unfortunately to really take advantage of this, the entire combat system needs to be changed.  I personally would love one thats more melee based such as how the Arkham games are where you can really get that satisfying melee combat with only  few buttons but then you would have to completely change the way the game is played and then you would also have to completely change the drop tables(this would actually be good as I'm tired of getting void keys as "rewards" when doing void missions and DE's response is to leave the damn keys out and instead vault the older Prime frames and weapons) because missions would be a lot longer and despite most likely being a lot more fun, people would still get pissed because it's even more infuriating to try and get those pieces you need for that shiny new frame or weapon.

 

Parkour 2.0 is a step in the right direction but there is still a lot that would need to be done that many people may not want done.

[motorfirebox]

12500 per enemy.  My EB was doing upward of 90k on level 30 heavy gunners after armor, and it wasn't even optimized. 

 

Btw, that Saryn build you have is a generic power strength build.  It just happens to benefit Miasma more than any other nuke due to negative duration tripling its base damage, which is then modified by power strength.  Transient Fortitude is twisted like that for Saryn.  

Yeah, and you're only hitting 1-2 enemies at a time with that 90k, plus a few k more on enemies that get tagged with waves. Saryn is hitting 20 enemies a pop. Or I could go with Mesa and shoot down mobs before Excal even sees them. Or I could go with Vauban and keep all the mobs permanently helpless, and pick them off at my leisure. Or I could go with Trinity and be invincible and it wouldn't matter how long it takes me to kill them all. Or I could go with Loki and perma-disarm them all and cut them up with never-ending stealth damage. Or I could go with Mag, and if I'm good enough, I can keep everything in range perma-stunned with Pull. Nova can keep everything too slow to fight back. Mirage can pump out insane weapon DPS while keeping everything permanently blinded. Even Ember, with the right build and skillset, can put out enough damage to destroy a roomful of level 30 mobs without any significant challenge.

 

It's entirely possible that Excal has a bit of an edge over other frames, in terms of overall effectiveness against mobs. Personally, it wouldn't bother me to see his waves cut down to as short a range as 8m (6m further than his 2m reach). But if you're complaining that Excal is overwhelmingly effective, then your problem isn't with Excal, it's with the entire game. Nearly all the frames are overwhelmingly effective, and the ones that aren't tend to synergize to make their teammates even more overwhelmingly effective.

Edited July 17, 2015 by motorfirebox

[kindablueish]

To quote my self from earlier: 

Just don't fix what is not broken. Is E.B broken? Hell no, it have enough drawbacks to compensate for its strengths. There are much more pressing concerns in game right now, such as how to balance abilities that promote stagnancy within the game like Mesa 4th ability, or tweaking and finalizing parkour 2.0, or the new valkyr skin, or update 17 with the new trial, the list goes on. Excalibur just came out and for the first time in forever he is well received by 80% of the community(or at least 90% of the people i have asked in clan/alliance/region chat), his E.B actually promotes active playing and makes the game enjoyable, which will increase the game longevity, which is probably what DE is trying to do with the rework, and they did an amazing job. So DE shouldn't exert resources on tweaking/nerfing Excalibur because it will just be resources wasted. Also I promise that a lot more people would become unhappy if a nerf/tweak were to happen, than the amount of people made happy by a nerf/tweak. Because DE would piss off people who think Excalibur is perfectly fine in his current state (people like me), the few people who think Excalibur still needs a buff (they are out there), some of the people who demanded nerfs but did not want the type of nerfs DE implemented or think the nerf is too much. It will be a lose/lose situation for DE. So its far better/profitable to just leave Excalibur alone, and spend money/resources on coming out with new contents. 

As for the people who keep on saying E.B is super broken because they can solo t4 survival up to 40 or 60 minutes, just because you can do it does not mean majority of the player base can achieve the same goal. Also a lot of frames if modded correctly can go up to 40/60 minutes in t4 survival. Youtuber Thefaitko consistently uploads videos of him soloing t4 survival up to 35-40 minutes with different frames and average weapons.  

[rudman88]

I find that E>B excalibur is imba.

 

It is the only 4th skill deal full damage to boss.

 

Its like other frames 4th skill cant damage boss but E.B can.

 

Why does other frames get nerfed while excalibur get super charged?

 

Is like Mesa has same effect but P.M cant target boss, cant move. WHy not we sacrifice mesa long range for mobility and same energy cost as E.B?

 

Is like mesa will get an imba dual pistol while excalibur get imba sword.

[Mareckov]

But then what is the point of getting the high level content if they're underwhelming in power as well, just for the bragging rights?

 

Soloable any missions could have been done because some people do not have access to any kind of fast and stable internet connection to most other players. Unless this suggestion is meant for DE to alienate those players as well.

Probably didn´t explain it well enough. I never ment to say that frames should be underwhelming, what I ment is that they should be weaker than they are now, but so should be top level enemies.(What I mean by that is lowering the amount of damage both enemies and warframes can dish out -> increasing value of CC and lowering value of AOE spam)

 

Basicaly lowering the power jump in waves. The enemies could still gain power as game prolongs, but maybe the numbers shoudn´t increase so much, then well-synched squads could take them down by playing smart and picking off high priority targets. Even without the need for OP ultimates such as Exalted blade. 

 

About the second part... I might sound like a jackass but i´m not sure that I support the idea that everyone should get everything. 

 

about the bragging rights, that´s not the point, we are not 12 are we? It´s about having something to aim for and having to work for it. Because when you do, it´s all the sweeter :)

[kindablueish]

Probably didn´t explain it well enough. I never ment to say that frames should be underwhelming, what I ment is that they should be weaker than they are now, but so should be top level enemies.(What I mean by that is lowering the amount of damage both enemies and warframes can dish out -> increasing value of CC and lowering value of AOE spam)

 

Basicaly lowering the power jump in waves. The enemies could still gain power as game prolongs, but maybe the numbers shoudn´t increase so much, then well-synched squads could take them down by playing smart and picking off high priority targets. Even without the need for OP ultimates such as Exalted blade. 

 

About the second part... I might sound like a jackass but i´m not sure that I support the idea that everyone should get everything. 

 

about the bragging rights, that´s not the point, we are not 12 are we? It´s about having something to aim for and having to work for it. Because when you do, it´s all the sweeter :)

Did you honestly make a new account just so you can sprout your nerf opinions on this thread? your profile shows that you literally created this account yesterday with only 2 posts, both on this thread. Why not just post this on your main account? or do you just want to crate an illusion of more people supporting the idea of nerfing excalibur to make the vocal minority in this game seems like a majority? 

[Mareckov]

Yeah, and you're only hitting 1-2 enemies at a time with that 90k, plus a few k more on enemies that get tagged with waves. Saryn is hitting 20 enemies a pop. Or I could go with Mesa and shoot down mobs before Excal even sees them. Or I could go with Vauban and keep all the mobs permanently helpless, and pick them off at my leisure. Or I could go with Trinity and be invincible and it wouldn't matter how long it takes me to kill them all. Or I could go with Loki and perma-disarm them all and cut them up with never-ending stealth damage. Or I could go with Mag, and if I'm good enough, I can keep everything in range perma-stunned with Pull. Nova can keep everything too slow to fight back. Mirage can pump out insane weapon DPS while keeping everything permanently blinded. Even Ember, with the right build and skillset, can put out enough damage to destroy a roomful of level 30 mobs without any significant challenge.

 

It's entirely possible that Excal has a bit of an edge over other frames, in terms of overall effectiveness against mobs. Personally, it wouldn't bother me to see his waves cut down to as short a range as 8m (6m further than his 2m reach). But if you're complaining that Excal is overwhelmingly effective, then your problem isn't with Excal, it's with the entire game. Nearly all the frames are overwhelmingly effective, and the ones that aren't tend to synergize to make their teammates even more overwhelmingly effective.

Yup, all frames and some mechanics need a rebalance. Cutting CC duration to 1/3, giving it a CD and lowering its energy cost would be a step in the right direction

[Mareckov]

Did you honestly make a new account just so you can sprout your nerf opinions on this thread? your profile shows that you literally created this account yesterday with only 2 posts, both on this thread. Why not just post this on your main account? or do you just want to crate an illusion of more people supporting the idea of nerfing excalibur to make the vocal minority in this game seems like a majority? 

 

Illuminati confirmed.

 

No I am a new warframe player, but I did my homework on how the endgame works without experiencing it myself. 

Before you devaluate my opinion on anything because " BUT YOU WASNT THERE" let me say that I have a long years experience in other games, thus I am able to spot problems early.

[Ronyn]

Probably didn´t explain it well enough. I never ment to say that frames should be underwhelming, what I ment is that they should be weaker than they are now, but so should be top level enemies.(What I mean by that is lowering the amount of damage both enemies and warframes can dish out -> increasing value of CC and lowering value of AOE spam)

Whoa. The value of CC should NOT be increased. It is already king in this game in later levels when most damage powers fall off.

Lowering the AOE spam would be good but keep in mind that CC is often the aoe that people are spamming. 

Spamming wide angles stun is no better than spamming wide angle damage.

 

 

No I am a new warframe player, but I did my homework on how the endgame works without experiencing it myself. 

Before you devaluate my opinion on anything because " BUT YOU WASNT THERE" let me say that I have a long years experience in other games, thus I am able to spot problems early.

eh....in this case it seems you need more specific experiences with the state of this particular games end game.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Ronyn

[thelastpwnr99]

I'm not going to lie, in all honesty I kind of disagree with everything you said.  And that's not just "no," it's me saying that he's never been MORE of a swordsman.  Will Exalted Blade see work in the future?  Most likely.  But right now it fits in fine, Excalibur is FUN now, and has multiple builds at his disposal--as all Warframes should be.

[Mareckov]

Whoa. The value of CC should NOT be increased. It is already king in this game in later levels when most damage powers fall off.

Lowering the AOE spam would be good but keep in mind that CC is often the aoe that people are spamming. 

Spamming wide angles stun is no better than spamming wide angle damage.

 

 

 

eh....in this case it seems you need more specific experiences with the state of this particular games end game.

Totaly fair point, I will shut up now.

 

Only thing that I can tell with certainty is that Exalted Blade destroys lowend gameplay, annihilating anything under level 30 with one energy wave with just maxed out pressure point and two 3/5 elemental mods. Thus making the game too easy most of the time.

 

At the point of the game where I am (Europa) can just pop it once you collect your max energy after the start of the level, run in a straight line, killing things so fast that you always get enough energy orbs to keep spamming the energy waves of doom.

[Ronyn]

Totaly fair point, I will shut up now.

 

Only thing that I can tell with certainty is that Exalted Blade destroys lowend gameplay, annihilating anything under level 30 with one energy wave with just maxed out pressure point and two 3/5 elemental mods. Thus making the game too easy most of the time.

 

At the point of the game where I am (Europa) can just pop it once you collect your max energy after the start of the level, run in a straight line, killing things so fast that you always get enough energy orbs to keep spamming the energy waves of doom.

Well the thing you were totally right about is that the power spikes way too dang hard in this game.

But it is even more munched than that. lol

 

The way that stats and mods interact to increase the warframes strength happens at one rate, the way weapons grow in power is at another rate and the way that enemies grow in power is at an entirely different rate.  Basically the scaling is inconsistent as heck

Add that to the fact that the current official end game in Warframe is the trials which sets us against level 80 enemies.

80 is of course way higher than what you'll face on the star chart which top out around 40 in most cases.

 

So in the current progression system a power that is balanced to feel right against end game level enemies is going to feel overpowered against level low to mid game enemies....and a power that is balanced to feel right against early to mid game level enemies is going to feel underpowered against low to mid level enemies.

 

This is a lot of the reason why some folks will say "Exalted blade is NOT OP" because at level 80 it is one of the few powers that does respectable damage and is worth using compared to your weapon.  Where other folks will say "Exalted blade IS OP" because at level 30 or 40 it is easy to kill groups of enemies with a few quick presses of the button.

 

We should have a smooth growth of power where everything feels right as long as we are using it at the appropriate level of content like games with vertical progression are meant to....but instead we have a whole lot of inconsistency and confusion.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Ronyn

[VampirePirate]

Simple solution.

 

Channeling Waves: When channeling is applied to Exalted Blade during the 4th ability's activation, the energy blade sends waves.  When not applied, Exalted Blade swings like a sword with no energy waves.

 

Channeling will work normally in melee mode when not using Exalted Blade.

 

 

Of course, I doubt anyone would agree with this.

[kindablueish]

Illuminati confirmed.

 

No I am a new warframe player, but I did my homework on how the endgame works without experiencing it myself. 

Before you devaluate my opinion on anything because " BUT YOU WASNT THERE" let me say that I have a long years experience in other games, thus I am able to spot problems early.

The profile shows that you literally created the account yesterday, i don't know about you, but when most people install a new game, the first thing they do would be actually playing the game to try it out instead of going on the forums, even if very few new players decide to go on to the forums, their first few posts would usually be saying hi to the community or ask for help and guidance from other players. For the sake of the argument, let's say that you really are a new player, and you played excalibur for a relatively short amount of time, and in that time, you have already leveled up your excalibur to high  enough level to even have his 4th skill (lvl 0 at rank 10), modded your excalibur and your melee weapon to super strong with  zero to no offensive mods (because you just started so there's no way you will have all the high end mods), some how, and the first thing you do instead of enjoying the game and trying out all the different things war frame have to offer for at least a few more days before you ponder about the balancing issues, is to go straight onto the forum, the feed back section on warframes/abilities, and asking for direct nerfs to the single frame you have experienced, something isn't adding up here.

Also you stated in earlier posts that lvl 30 excalibur on apollodorus is trivializing low level content, well isn't that the same in all mmo? literally in any mmo, the equivalent of a maxed level character can obviously wreck havoc in the beginner section of the game, same with warframe, any maxed frame that is built correctly can trivialize beginning content in this game, this does not mean they are too strong. 

[Pate8]

about the bragging rights, that´s not the point, we are not 12 are we?

Please don't make sock puppet accounts.

 

Edit: If you're truly a new player, there is more to the star chart. You will encounter difficulty in the void without a full loadout.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Pate8

[Mareckov]

The profile shows that you literally created the account yesterday, i don't know about you, but when most people install a new game, the first thing they do would be actually playing the game to try it out instead of going on the forums, even if very few new players decide to go on to the forums, their first few posts would usually be saying hi to the community or ask for help and guidance from other players. For the sake of the argument, let's say that you really are a new player, and you played excalibur for a relatively short amount of time, and in that time, you have already leveled up your excalibur to high  enough level to even have his 4th skill (lvl 0 at rank 10), modded your excalibur and your melee weapon to super strong with  zero to no offensive mods (because you just started so there's no way you will have all the high end mods), some how, and the first thing you do instead of enjoying the game and trying out all the different things war frame have to offer for at least a few more days before you ponder about the balancing issues, is to go straight onto the forum, the feed back section on warframes/abilities, and asking for direct nerfs to the single frame you have experienced, something isn't adding up here.

Also you stated in earlier posts that lvl 30 excalibur on apollodorus is trivializing low level content, well isn't that the same in all mmo? literally in any mmo, the equivalent of a maxed level character can obviously wreck havoc in the beginner section of the game, same with warframe, any maxed frame that is built correctly can trivialize beginning content in this game, this does not mean they are too strong. 

My point was that I played 3 days pretty much all day straight, excal only. For the entire time the game felt amazing EXCEPT for when I used the goddamn blade, which trivialized content even without proper mods against enemies of 1-30 levels. 

 

About it being the same in all MMOs, that´s not true. In other MMOs you have to get trough content to get powerful. Getting a frame to level 30 took me about 2 days(not playtime). Thus I only saw a fraction of the games content, but the exalted blade is absolutely crushing anything you got access to as a fresh level 30.

 

Seriously, when I reached 30. I still didn´t have Serration, ele mods or any other "good" rifle mod, my secondary was useless, in melee I died in 6 seconds, but I was able to solo orokin derelict, because I popped the laser pew pew power ranger blade. 

 

I might be wrong in many things and I may be green as hell, but Exalted Blade sure is not an ability that scales well.

[----Fenrir----]

Simple solution.

 

Channeling Waves: When channeling is applied to Exalted Blade during the 4th ability's activation, the energy blade sends waves.  When not applied, Exalted Blade swings like a sword with no energy waves.

 

Channeling will work normally in melee mode when not using Exalted Blade.

 

 

Of course, I doubt anyone would agree with this.

 

I would agree with this, but only if EB would no longer require energy to activate or keep running making Excal able to keep it running indefinitely. Because otherwise giving the spawn rates of nullifiers in the Void poor Excal would probably run out of energy in 1 or 2 minute intervals.

[motorfirebox]

Yup, all frames and some mechanics need a rebalance. Cutting CC duration to 1/3, giving it a CD and lowering its energy cost would be a step in the right direction

Attempting to rebalance frames shouldn't be the priority. The largest contributor to the current gameplay problems, including both farming and ult-spamming, is enemy AI. Once there's an AI that's smart enough to require thoughtful tactics, the frames should be rebalanced around that.

[TheBrsrkr]

5m is pretty much infinite on enemies. the lanka sniper has a 5m punchthrough on a full charge shot.

The limit is for the cover, not the enemies.

[GuyOnCrack]

My point was that I played 3 days pretty much all day straight, excal only. For the entire time the game felt amazing EXCEPT for when I used the goddamn blade, which trivialized content even without proper mods against enemies of 1-30 levels. 

 

About it being the same in all MMOs, that´s not true. In other MMOs you have to get trough content to get powerful. Getting a frame to level 30 took me about 2 days(not playtime). Thus I only saw a fraction of the games content, but the exalted blade is absolutely crushing anything you got access to as a fresh level 30.

 

Seriously, when I reached 30. I still didn´t have Serration, ele mods or any other "good" rifle mod, my secondary was useless, in melee I died in 6 seconds, but I was able to solo orokin derelict, because I popped the laser pew pew power ranger blade. 

 

I might be wrong in many things and I may be green as hell, but Exalted Blade sure is not an ability that scales well.

Do I even need to say the same thing that I have always been saying? Excalibur can deal tons of damage, but can't deal tons of damage or buff/defend teammates or objectives. He has a DPS role, of course he will be doing a lot of damage.

 

Also, Exalted Blade benefits most from melee mods. He can get an extra boost from Warframe mods but the bulk of the damage is from melee mods. And the basic melee mods are pretty easy to get but one ones that will benefit you the most are rarer to find. Beserker, Life Strike, status mods, etc.

[RealPandemonium]

 Beserker, Life Strike, status mods, etc.

How do any of these particularly benefit EB?

 

Life Strike I can see, but the other two?  Also Life Strike can be readily obtained from a couple of Dark Sector runs.  

[Autongnosis]

How do any of these particularly benefit EB?

Life Strike I can see, but the other two? Also Life Strike can be readily obtained from a couple of Dark Sector runs.

Berserker builds work decently. Not my piece of cake personally (turns xcal into a machinegun basically), but they definitely work.

Status mods i agree are meh.

About Life Strike: it can be obtained through dark sector runs but it's anything but readily available. For reference ever since the armistice i play DSs a lot but i still haven't dropped it.

Tbh, on the bit about trivialising level >30 content. Most damage frames do exactly that. Think of Saryn, Ember, Ash, Mesa for static missions...

It's why the scaling is so stupid. There are frames like ember and saryn that up to level 30 can just run around a mission pressing a button (4) every once in a while and kill everything barely seeing a mob in the whole mission.

Most damage based frames end up being devastatingly OP on lower end content, because of how scaling works. I mean, if with the right mods it can kill level 100 mobs, i'm not surprised it trivialises content at level 30 and below...