Conclave 2.0 Is...... Purely Awful

[Fungineer]

So you probably clicked on this thinking i'm just gonna end it with a single paragraph but i have a lot to say about the current state of PvP and why DE either needs to devote a large amount of work into changing it or revert PvP back to the old version (because it was definitely way more balanced than this trash heap). 

 

So, why is it awful? Lots of things, let's go over those.

 

1: The complete lack of map control. Most PvP systems have some form of map control via power weapons (or in Warframe's case, energy) or buffs. Warframe virtually doesn't have this. Energy spawns are way too frequent and a lot of the time no one even picks them up (except on the Uranus map), this leads into another issue that i'll talk about later but seriously DE. After energy surge, all energy orbs give 50 energy and energy orbs have maybe a 30-45 second respawn delay (i never tested it so shut up i don't know the exact amounts) all throughout the game. This is more of a clusterfuck of bullets and overpowered abilities which isn't fun in the slightest. 

 

2: Certain Warframes are drastically better than others. Chroma, Mag, and Nyx seem to be stuck in this void of uselessness right now. Chroma's abilities are simply really weak, Mag's range without any mods is laughable and Nyx's abilities are... just bad. Now i personally don't have any suggestions for buffing these frames to make them slightly useful, but i'm sure someone who replies to these will come up with something.

 

3: Low time to kill weapons are virtually worthless. Weapons like the Bratons, Struns, Dera, and Atamos (just to name a few) are purely awful. This isn't really a problem with the weapons and more of a problem with Warfame mobility. Most engagements with these weapons result in your opponent coptering away and getting to a safe spot so they can snipe, melee spam, or cast an ability on you. Again this really isn't a problem with these weapons but hopefully U17 will fix that. 

 

4: Abilities............ Why... Abilities are currently the #1 thing plaguing Conclave, the offer up incredible amounts of damage, half of them are spammable as hell, compliment snipers or melee spammers, and are typically cheap to cast. The main ones are Shock, Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, and Freeze, these are simply insanely overpowered abilities that either need to be nerfed or made more expensive. Like i mentioned earlier, energy spawns way too frequently and since these abilities deal so much damage for only 1 energy orb, they're borderline overpowered.

 

5: Melee spam...... it's a thing.......... Melee weapons need to be nerfed, that's all i can say to this one. Martial Magnetism and any high damage melee weapon is a recipe for defeat.

 

6: Valkyr. Right now she can survive 2 Vectis Prime shots and to be honest, that shouldn't be a thing. Her insane armor means that she will win most gunfights if you miss any shots and typically most players that play Valkyr are just going to melee spam anyway.

 

7: AUTO TARGET LUNGING. Just remove it. It becomes a pain when i want to copter away from an annoying melee spammer and instead my melee weapon just lunges at the person i'm trying to escape and since i use a Bo prime it often results in my death because the Bo does like 10 damage.

 

There are probably a lot more things i can complain about but these are the only ones that popped into my head when i was reading this, i'll probably add those in if and when more ideas come to mind, I am ready for the hate comments and the $&*&*#(%& "oh this is completely untrue" comments. So go ahead, leave your opinions.  

Edited July 12, 2015 by Fungineer

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

inb4 the "pvp is fine the way it is git gud" people come

 

But yea you are totally right, its been weeks since pvp has gotten a proper update. Hopefully it will be coming soon, they have to know that their game mode is getting plagued by spammers.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[InFlames]

just saying being all rash and rude on a post isn't gonna get you anywhere or anything "balanced"

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

just saying being all rash and rude on a post isn't gonna get you anywhere or anything "balanced"

With all the demand and suggestions and not much done, it's only normal that people are going to ask like this,

[Rexlars]

pvp is fine the way it is git gud

 

——

 

Jokes aside, pvp is okay for me. 

 

1.) I don't really agree with this one. Literally everyone & their Step Mother is rushing for those energy orbs. It becomes a fight for the energy spawns almost. 

2.) No comment. I don't use nor do I fight against those frames (or at least, don't recall fighting one). 

3.) 100% agree. Especially the mention of coptering & it's "haha seeya later" effects on Conclave. 

4.) I agree to an extent. They aren't however, that easy to hit with. I miss every so often & dodge them more often than not. But when they do hit, they certainly pack a punch. 

5.) Agree & disagree. I feel it depends on the weapon. Channeling will fck you up though. 

6.) Don't play her in pvp.

7.) No comment. 

[Fungineer]

——

 

Jokes aside, pvp is okay for me. 

 

1.) I don't really agree with this one. Literally everyone & their Step Mother is rushing for those energy orbs. It becomes a fight for the energy spawns almost. 

2.) No comment. I don't use nor do I fight against those frames (or at least, don't recall fighting one). 

3.) 100% agree. Especially the mention of coptering & it's "haha seeya later" effects on Conclave. 

4.) I agree to an extent. They aren't however, that easy to hit with. I miss every so often & dodge them more often than not. But when they do hit, they certainly pack a punch. 

5.) Agree & disagree. I feel it depends on the weapon. Channeling will fck you up though. 

6.) Don't play her in pvp.

7.) No comment. 

 

I've played several games (especially on the Europa map) where all the energy spawns except the middle one are there. Some maps don't have this problem but a few of them do. 

 

Shock, Slash Dash, and Rhino Charge are all extremely easy to land since Shock and Rhino charge have moderate AoE and Slash Dash is auto target. Freeze i just kinda threw in there because i found it to be annoying and used a lot. 

 

It was mostly a problem with any player using Martial Magnetism, however melee spam even without that mod is still a pain in the &#!. 

 

I don't play her, however i see a lot of them in PvP so i find it to be pretty annoying when i lose gunfights because they simply don't die. 

[Senketsu_]

Honestly its not "awful", does it need way more work and polish? Yes. But they have laid out a good base to build upon. and its 100x better then PvP 1.0. With parkour 2.0 we will probably see the death of the bo prime coptering in PvP. The only thing that truly needs fixing now is Valkyrs ruking unfair speed and armor advantage.

[rockscl]

pvp is fine the way it is git gud

[GumbySmasher]

"pvp is almost fine the way it is get gud" 

 

they just need to put the daikyu back to being a 1shot bow and i'll be at peace again

[Lord_Noctus]

 

3: Low time to kill weapons are virtually worthless. Weapons like the Bratons, Struns, Dera, and Atamos (just to name a few) are purely awful. This isn't really a problem with the weapons and more of a problem with Warfame mobility. Most engagements with these weapons result in your opponent coptering away and getting to a safe spot so they can snipe, melee spam, or cast an ability on you. Again this really isn't a problem with these weapons but hopefully U17 will fix that. 

 

4: Abilities............ Why... Abilities are currently the #1 thing plaguing Conclave, the offer up incredible amounts of damage, half of them are spammable as hell, compliment snipers or melee spammers, and are typically cheap to cast. The main ones are Shock, Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, and Freeze, these are simply insanely overpowered abilities that either need to be nerfed or made more expensive. Like i mentioned earlier, energy spawns way too frequently and since these abilities deal so much damage for only 1 energy orb, they're borderline overpowered.

 

6: Valkyr. Right now she can survive 2 Vectis Prime shots and to be honest, that shouldn't be a thing. Her insane armor means that she will win most gunfights if you miss any shots and typically most players that play Valkyr are just going to melee spam anyway.

 

 

these points above are rly important. especially annoying are the 1 shot aoes so many people allready complained about them yet no changes but u rly gotta think of how overpowered a 1 shot aoe ability is when it can go through walls also with pakour 2.0 they will be a bigger problem.

 

 

for the other points i can tell blocking is the biggest problem with melee not the dmg and that autotarget thing when melee isnt equiped is in ur gameplay options to turn off.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[cary2010haha1]

1.0 is more unbalance, Do you even see anyone use "heavy melee" in 1.0?

dual sword spin attack out damage all other kinds of melee.

and Heavy melee is like a idiot in 1.0 pvp, low damage and slow move, can't copt also.

 

 

 

you may say"Low time to kill weapons are virtually worthless." in PVP 2.0, but you still can get a kill with them.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the best part of 2.0 is really DE make the heavy melee back to the field.( of cuz it's still not gd enough as copt. still here, but not be long)

[Thalahssalyst]

 

5: Melee spam...... it's a thing.......... Melee weapons need to be nerfed, that's all i can say to this one

 

Melee spamm?

What the h... its melee spamm, and why again melee need to be nerfed?

 

[AlphaSierraMike]

To be fair though, it's not the game's fault when part of the community treat PvP as another grind fest, like the conditioned animals they are. All they care is decreasing that rep counter.

 

Every kill gives the same affinity and subsequently rep. Why do people use abilities? Because it's easy kill. Why do people do nothing but spam melee with martial magnetism? Because it's easy kill. Why do people use borderline brain dead tactics like doing jack but coptering everywhere and setting off abilities? Because it's easy kill. When there's the choice between kills that require little to no effort or kills that require practice to pull off, people who don't care about improving their skill and just want every piece of content available will obviously choose the former.

 

I'll say, take away reputation. Then the people who's left playing are the ones that either enjoy the actual PvP aspect or trolling wankers. I'm willing to bet that was one of the factors that made PvP 1.0 fun, as people keep saying, because it wasn't about the reward, it was just a bunch of dude playing the game for what it is.

[HermlT]

Shock, Slash Dash, and Rhino Charge are all extremely easy to land since Shock and Rhino charge have moderate AoE and Slash Dash is auto target. Freeze i just kinda threw in there because i found it to be annoying and used a lot. 

 

It was mostly a problem with any player using Martial Magnetism, however melee spam even without that mod is still a pain in the !. 

 

I don't play her, however i see a lot of them in PvP so i find it to be pretty annoying when i lose gunfights because they simply don't die. 

1: shock doesn't have CC and can miss if you are agile, slash dash can only hit targets that are not moving away and still has a measure of skill usage within, and rhino charge has a short range and can only hit with rhino's own hitbox. these abilities are fine if you study them and learn counterplays. (freeze is the one of the more annoying things to target with btw).

 

2: melee spam: while i agree melee spam is annoying you do have options to use against it: you can either keep your distance and use your guns or you can use abilities to open them up for damage(not possible on all frames, ik but still need to be mentioned).

 

3: valkyr has a special weakness... while she has tons of armor puncture damage weapons work wonders against her.

 

4: chroma is my most used pvp frame and i can say he is NOT useless. vex armor can win you team fights when timed correctly, elemental ward deals with melee spammers(if you can find the energy), spectral scream can sometimes be useful with its augment and effigy is crap. and he is one of the tankiest frames in terms of using only one damage type against him since he has a decent amount of shields and armor.

[DrewHorrigan]

I'll say, take away reputation. Then the people who's left playing are the ones that either enjoy the actual PvP aspect or trolling wankers. I'm willing to bet that was one of the factors that made PvP 1.0 fun, as people keep saying, because it wasn't about the reward, it was just a bunch of dude playing the game for what it is.

But but but, it's not like the rewards are for PvE...

 

 

energy orbs have maybe a 30-45 second respawn delay (i never tested it so shut up i don't know the exact amounts)

It's 40 seconds. I counted. You're welcome.

[Kontrollo]

(because it was definitely way more balanced than this trash heap). 

 

That's a good joke, maybe you should start a career as a comedian. ;)

 

1) You actually can control the map. Not completely, but if you know where to be in 45s intervals, you'll always have an energy advantage over your enemies.

 

2) - Chroma has arguably the best defensive ability in his 3rd. He's an ideal choice for people like you who hate offensive powers.

- You think Mag is weak? Haha.

- I concur with Nyx.

 

3) "Bratons", " virtually worthless" and "purely awful" on the same line. Are we playing the same game? I agree some weapons are still too weak, and DE hasn't done anything about it for a while. I wonder what they're doing right now and hope they don't think they're done balancing the currently available weapons. The rest of your 3) is just more of 4) and 5).

 

4) They're manageable. Evading enemies is so easy at the moment, you don't have to duel anyone; if you know they have more energy than you, you can evade them until they've wasted it. If not, then why the hell did you let them have more energy? See 1). You didn't mention it, but I'm going to add it here: The mobility and TTK is what make coptering for energy and relying purely on abilities so attractive right now. I'm pretty sure the lower speed of Parkour 2.0 will shift that in favour of guns again.

 

5) Melee can be annoying, that's true. But just because I don't play it and I don't like it I'm not going to call for nerfs. They can only hurt you in melee range, of course you're not supposed to win a fight there with your guns. Use Oberon's Hallowed Ground if you're worried about melee only players.

 

6) A Valkyr complaint again? Lol, you're touching all the bases, aren't you?

 

7) Uhm, what?

 

8) After 6) I was expecting something about the Daikyu or Kogake here, then your OP would be a neat summary of what people were complaining about on this subforum in the last month or so.

 

 

P.S. If you find any grumpiness in my post, you can keep it. ;)

Edited July 12, 2015 by Kontrollo

[AlphaSierraMike]

But but but, it's not like the rewards are for PvE...

That's the part I don't get either. They're grinding just for the sake of hitting that brick wall of "no more grinding for you". Maybe because they want reserved rep just in case additional content is patched in or something, but the same thing applies, they're not going to use it in PvP when all they would use are grinding setups, nor will people buy it in Trading when everyone has access to them anyway as long as they have PvP rep lying around, it's not like Syndicate rep where some mods are exclusive to each syndicates. At the end, it's pointless grinding that does jack but ruin the experience of other players in the lobby when Volt Ps farts out Overload like they soil their pants every time they see someone remotely close.

[Lyraius]

"pvp is almost fine the way it is get gud" 

 

they just need to put the daikyu back to being a 1shot bow and i'll be at peace again

People are already complaining it 1 shots some frames and is powerful, and I agree, its pretty powerful. Just don't nerf it is what I ask for.

[rockscl]

did you just compare braton with atomos?, please, buff atomos

[Fungineer]

1: shock doesn't have CC and can miss if you are agile, slash dash can only hit targets that are not moving away and still has a measure of skill usage within, and rhino charge has a short range and can only hit with rhino's own hitbox. these abilities are fine if you study them and learn counterplays. (freeze is the one of the more annoying things to target with btw).

 

2: melee spam: while i agree melee spam is annoying you do have options to use against it: you can either keep your distance and use your guns or you can use abilities to open them up for damage(not possible on all frames, ik but still need to be mentioned).

 

3: valkyr has a special weakness... while she has tons of armor puncture damage weapons work wonders against her.

 

4: chroma is my most used pvp frame and i can say he is NOT useless. vex armor can win you team fights when timed correctly, elemental ward deals with melee spammers(if you can find the energy), spectral scream can sometimes be useful with its augment and effigy is crap. and he is one of the tankiest frames in terms of using only one damage type against him since he has a decent amount of shields and armor.

Ya know, abilities are not just always on hand at any moment in time. Melee weapons are, and the thing i brought up about auto target lunging makes it difficult to get away from people.

 

Hey genius, there are a tiny few weapons that actually deal puncture damage, those weapons are not really my favorite, so when i constantly keep @(*()$ losing gunfights because i use a slash weapon is stupid. 

 

While yes i did say he was useless, it was mostly due to his abilities being too expensive, having low duration with no mods, and typically aren't the best offensive skills. I don't agree with him being completely worthless, but he is pretty lackluster in my opinion. 

[Fungineer]

Melee spamm?

What the h... its melee spamm, and why again melee need to be nerfed?

 

Ok maybe not the greatest suggestion for fixing it. But i do think melee needs to be toned back a little. 

[Fungineer]

1.0 is more unbalance, Do you even see anyone use "heavy melee" in 1.0?

dual sword spin attack out damage all other kinds of melee.

and Heavy melee is like a idiot in 1.0 pvp, low damage and slow move, can't copt also.

 

 

 

you may say"Low time to kill weapons are virtually worthless." in PVP 2.0, but you still can get a kill with them.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the best part of 2.0 is really DE make the heavy melee back to the field.( of cuz it's still not gd enough as copt. still here, but not be long)

i just want to talk about your first point right there and tell you how stupid that sounds. No one used heavy melees because everyone was running around with weapons that did the same damage but 80% faster. 1.0 was way more balanced because you people don't realize that fast movement needs to be complimented with low TTK and vise versa, if you have a long TTK and high movement speed than it's a stupid "chase people all around the map until someone finally drops dead" fight. Which isn't a very great thing.

 

Yeah you can get kills with low TTK weapons.... i can get kills with Atheon's Epilogue in Destiny but that doesn't mean it's good. 

[cary2010haha1]

i just want to talk about your first point right there and tell you how stupid that sounds. No one used heavy melees because everyone was running around with weapons that did the same damage but 80% faster. 1.0 was way more balanced because you people don't realize that fast movement needs to be complimented with low TTK and vise versa, if you have a long TTK and high movement speed than it's a stupid "chase people all around the map until someone finally drops dead" fight. Which isn't a very great thing.

 

Yeah you can get kills with low TTK weapons.... i can get kills with Atheon's Epilogue in Destiny but that doesn't mean it's good. 

but in 1.0 can you get any kill with low TTK weapons ?

thats why 1.0 is unbalance, it's about 1 hit kill or never kill.

 

 

 

weapon balance means every type of allowed weapon have its place on the field. 1.0 have never success on this.

[Lyraius]

but in 1.0 can you get any kill with low TTK weapons ?

thats why 1.0 is unbalance, it's about 1 hit kill or never kill.

 

 

 

weapon balance means every type of allowed weapon have its place on the field. 1.0 have never success on this.

I've used the lato to kill good players in PvP 1.0. Lawl. 

[-InV-igo95862]

Lets see how Parkour 2.0 changes PvP...