Ancient Healer Buff...too Much

[MannyMulatto]

Infested Defense is near impossible at higher lvls and as if it werent bad enough in the void with nullifiers making everyone within invincible now there are ancients turning every enemy into a fully modded valkyr sure in half the cases you can just dispatch the ancient and be done but in other cases youre surrounded by 5 of them with gunners and bombards who were already bullet sponges now near invincible this also hurts melee run which is something i love doing with my valkyr but after trying to do a few infested defense missions solo the healers proved to be far too difficult to kill with melee since theres a ton of other infested acting as inhuman shields

I could see what you were going for DE as ancient healer did pretty much nothing but the dmg mitigation needs to be lowered.

Edited July 14, 2015 by MannyMulatto

[TheFalseEclipse]

Hang on...  infested orokin-nullifier bombard gunner... is this infested defense or void?

[Rakosta_Kai]

what levels are we talking here ?

[AsuraKyu]

I actually experienced this with my brother. We duo'd a T3Surv aiming for 40 minutes. got to about 36 or so and to many ancients spawned without being able to prioritize our targets.

Long story short: Nullifiers prevent stealth pick ups, Rapid fire Ogris Bombards prevent life, and ancients prevent enemy deaths completely. It was a pretty awful run how we ended.

[Doforcash]

Hang on...  infested orokin-nullifier bombard gunner... is this infested defense or void?

 

what levels are we talking here ?

 

But seriously though...without those healer Every game leader board will be people with Excalibul/Nova/Mesa Frame

Edit: Thead need a '.' or a ',' because [insert Nazi Gramma reason here]

Edited July 14, 2015 by Doforcash

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I saw that too.

 

You MUST kill the ancient healer before.

 

MUST = look for the ancient before other enemies will kill you

[nickelshark]

Too many priority targets in the void.

[TruthfulTravesty]

Yeah, it's pretty irritating, especially when you get them in groups and they all buff each other so there is no way to work around the buff but just grind through all but one of them before you can dispatch it normally. I'll admit, it's a good way of encouraging crowd dispersal tactics... but it forces them rather than merely suggest them. 

 

It also doesn't fit with the healer's lore very much. Ever since its synthesis backstory was revealed, we know that the healers had limited power that (back when they were human) had to be rationed between allies. 

 

The healers' aura should stick to healing, but that healing should be buffed such that if there is one ally within its healing radius, that single ally will get the maximum healing rate. Every additional ally will then divide that regen rate by however many there are within the radius. This way, crowds won't be brokenly spongy, but the healing will have a noticeable effect when you start to widdle down the numbers. 

 

I'm not sure how the coding for Warframe's auras functions, but if each healer had its own "ping" for how many units were around it at one time, then that could work.

[aerosoul1337]

It's corrupted ancient you mean. (Change the title if you can)

Yep, it heals, absorbs 90% damage of allies to heal itself and provide proc/knock down resistance.

The problem is the spawn rate is super high, and it comes with nullifier/heavy gunner/bombard...and eximus versions.

 

If you are not running multi CP team, it's really annoying since corrosive damage is not effective against bombards.

And that damage absorption...

After I killed the ancients with corrosive gun, bombard eximus are still hard to kill at high level.

But it's too slow to swap secondary weapon for tactical usage (radiation/viral with another corrosive gun).

[Ishki88]

I once seen 3 nullifiers in 1 bubble with 2 eximus Bombards, and a couple of ancients mixed in with O-spreys....

 

 

And i live to tell about it.....

 

*cries in corner*

 

Actually this was yesterday..I forgot who was in my squad :/

[aerosoul1337]

To be honest, armor scale is broken itself.

Level 100 gunner eximus has 4000 times effective health than other level 100 unarmored enemies in the void.

[woah_dude]

how about ancients can't buff other ancients or benefit from their auras? 

[Naftal]

how about ancients can't buff other ancients or benefit from their auras? 

They can't buff other ancients or benefit from their auras.

[MannyMulatto]

It's corrupted ancient you mean. (Change the title if you can)

Yep, it heals, absorbs 90% damage of allies to heal itself and provide proc/knock down resistance.

The problem is the spawn rate is super high, and it comes with nullifier/heavy gunner/bombard...and eximus versions.

 

If you are not running multi CP team, it's really annoying since corrosive damage is not effective against bombards.

And that damage absorption...

After I killed the ancients with corrosive gun, bombard eximus are still hard to kill at high level.

But it's too slow to swap secondary weapon for tactical usage (radiation/viral with another corrosive gun).

Nope tested it with regular ancient healers they give the same buff

[MannyMulatto]

Hang on...  infested orokin-nullifier bombard gunner... is this infested defense or void?

Im talking about both since normal infested ancients got the same thing tested in akkad dark

sector defense

Edited July 14, 2015 by MannyMulatto

[321agemo]

Nyx. Chaos everything. Radiation.

There are many ways to counter them. But yeah, they are abit too strong.

[Eggzodiya]

Considering how powerful the Tenno are, and our equipment, I'm fine with giving enemies a handicap. I want them to have some amount of life span before dispatching them. Also, if you have the same fools raiding your house every day, wouldn't you try and create some kind of countermeasure to their efforts? I mean, I don't want some ninja-wannabe coming to my house, taking my stuff, and leaving a mess all day every day. If it's within my power, I'm going to try and do something about it.

 

And I know someone is going to rip me a new one for it, so I'll say it now, I'm not talking about end game. Not everything has to be about end game. No one ever said anything had to be about end game, nor does it matter if anyone says or hasn't said it.

[aerosoul1337]

Nope tested it with regular ancient healers they give the same buff

 

I know, but infested ancient are not buffed recently, they have always been work like that.

And infested won't team up with nullifiers and bombards.

[321agemo]

I know, but infested ancient are not buffed recently, they have always been work like that.

And infested won't team up with nullifiers and bombards.

True but im not sure about anyone else but even infested ancients feels like they've been buffed...

[KingTaro]

Did an ODD run 15 min ago with a random team. (One was Frost, the other was Chroma).

 

We stopped at 40 waves, because we didn't have negative Nova to speed things up.

At 40 waves, the infested were still pretty easy to melee down. But what would you define as "high level infested"?

[CapnFusterCluck]

Yeah, it's pretty irritating, especially when you get them in groups and they all buff each other so there is no way to work around the buff but just grind through all but one of them before you can dispatch it normally. I'll admit, it's a good way of encouraging crowd dispersal tactics... but it forces them rather than merely suggest them. 

 

It also doesn't fit with the healer's lore very much. Ever since its synthesis backstory was revealed, we know that the healers had limited power that (back when they were human) had to be rationed between allies. 

 

The healers' aura should stick to healing, but that healing should be buffed such that if there is one ally within its healing radius, that single ally will get the maximum healing rate. Every additional ally will then divide that regen rate by however many there are within the radius. This way, crowds won't be brokenly spongy, but the healing will have a noticeable effect when you start to widdle down the numbers. 

 

I'm not sure how the coding for Warframe's auras functions, but if each healer had its own "ping" for how many units were around it at one time, then that could work.

While Warframe does sort of force a certain meta, it is also advisable to bring someone with a little crowd control. 

[helix.hex]

one word: nova

[izzatuw]

Not really, you just need to prioritize them first, they're not nearly as hard to kill than the people they're buffing.

[aerosoul1337]

Did an ODD run 15 min ago with a random team. (One was Frost, the other was Chroma).

 

We stopped at 40 waves, because we didn't have negative Nova to speed things up.

At 40 waves, the infested were still pretty easy to melee down. But what would you define as "high level infested"?

 

To me, level below 50 are considered low level.

And Atomos kills everything pertty fast.

Only level 50+ Corrupted gunners, bombards eximus are harder to kill.

The only problem is the CC immunity and 90% damage absorption from the ancient (and the nullifiers).

Even in T3S, 1 hour survivor will spawn level 110+ enemies.

If you are playing solo, level 110 gunners and bombards eximus are very hard to kill except you are running Excalibur or Seeking shuriken + kohm that can still kill them within 1 second. And of course, you have to kill all the ancients / nullifers first.

Just so many priority targets.

 

Personally I think ancient itself is not overpowered, but the armor scale system IS.

Look at other 100+ mobs without armor, they are still kill-able without specific build.

[Plorf]

I think something needs to be done about Infested units... 

 

At a low level the spawn rates somewhat justify the power level of heavy units, because they are rare enough to be able to prioritize before they become a real threat. But as the number of enemies increases, the number of heavy spawns gets way out of hand with extreme damage resistance, power resistance, sapping attacks, energy drain, parasite clouds, toxic sludge, grappling hooks...

 

It's just a mess really. I think reworking energy drain, removing grapples, and reverting the healer aura to be a simple AoE heal are changes that would go a long way.