This Chart Is Best To Say Melee And Power Do Never Be Op Or The Best Way To Kill

[cary2010haha1]

https://warframe.com/news/numbers-conclave

 

 

 

still have argument? 

 

gun do most job and power or melee not do even half.

 

 

So which power is OP? even the pre patch Ex#1 fail in the stat
 

 

Melee? 

 

 

 

 

[Acos]

I find it hilarious that Boltor Prime and Mk-1 Braton are so close together. If you ever needed an image to describe what a nooby, try-hard weapon the Boltor Prime really is I think this graph is where I would start. 

[cary2010haha1]

I find it hilarious that Boltor Prime and Mk-1 Braton are so close together. If you ever needed an image to describe what a nooby, try-hard weapon the Boltor Prime really is I think this graph is where I would start. 

MK-1 braton is OP for a length of time( 40 damage pre hit)

[Naftal]

I don't think these charts give any real picture about balance, since the skill differences between pvp players are so huge. Also a LOT of pvp players are new and don't have almost any gear to choose from.

[cary2010haha1]

I don't think these charts give any real picture about balance, since the skill differences between pvp players are so huge. Also a LOT of pvp players are new and don't have almost any gear to choose from.

but it still break those lies about "what even who E Mashing or press 4 is going to win"

 

 

And the skill different is so huge, the chart reflect the true big picture of the PVP, not only few players experience 

[taiiat]

what the majority uses and what's objectively the best or incredibly easy to use without any negative facets do not necessarily correlate with each other.

i don't know why i expected you to know that though. having Constructive Discussions is not what you want to have.

[rockscl]

what the majority uses and what's objectively the best or incredibly easy to use without any negative facets do not necessarily correlate with each other.

i don't know why i expected you to know that though. having Constructive Discussions is not what you want to have.

 

so, about constructiveness,  which one would be an example of "incredibly easy to use without any negative facets"?

[cary2010haha1]

what the majority uses and what's objectively the best or incredibly easy to use without any negative facets do not necessarily correlate with each other.

i don't know why i expected you to know that though. having Constructive Discussions is not what you want to have.

majority uses is usually going to be the best or incredibly easy to use without any negative facets. Unless it's a secret glitch. ( just like the braton MK1 pre-fix, many players used it because it really powerful to use and easy to get)

 

thats why i put this post back to here, to tell those who think power/melee is too OP because they get few kill by those in a match is not everyone experiencing in this game.

Edited July 16, 2015 by cary2010haha1

[taiiat]

which one would be an example of "incredibly easy to use without any negative facets"?

some that fall into that boat would include Strun Wraith, Braton Prime, (technically) Boltor Prime to name a few.

which would be why they're popular. usage of them is very simple, just keep shooting.

which is what happens in PvP games. in Battlefield 3, the M16A3 was the most used Weapon, not because it was the fastest Kill, but because you could use it without looking at the screen and still perform well.

Et Cetera.

those sorts of Weapons in PvP games are the ones that become the most popular. easiest to use, least effort required to get Kills.

similar to what happens in the PvE aspect of Warframe, the most popular things at any given time are whatever is the path of least resistance. the easiest method to get to the end with the least effort required to get there.

and it's easier to W+M1 than it is to switch to your Melee and absorb a pile of shots and then Martial Magnetism and the Stamina drain one.

just like, in again, Battlefield for example, while Melee is an easy Kill, you can Kill easier without having to walk up to someone with your M16A3 so that gets used instead.

you can't gleam balance out of that, because it only shows you what's easiest to use.

Edited July 16, 2015 by taiiat

[cary2010haha1]

some that fall into that boat would include Strun Wraith, Braton Prime, (technically) Boltor Prime to name a few.

which would be why they're popular. usage of them is very simple, just keep shooting.

which is what happens in PvP games. in Battlefield 3, the M16A3 was the most used Weapon, not because it was the fastest Kill, but because you could use it without looking at the screen and still perform well.

Et Cetera.

those sorts of Weapons in PvP games are the ones that become the most popular. easiest to use, least effort required to get Kills.

similar to what happens in the PvE aspect of Warframe, the most popular things at any given time are whatever is the path of least resistance. the easiest method to get to the end with the least effort required to get there.

But you see most player complaint about Melee and #4 spam.

which is not the most easiest effective way to kill, and this chart told it

 

 

by DE

Edited July 16, 2015 by cary2010haha1

[Naftal]

But you see most player complaint about Melee and #4 spam.

which is not the most easiest effective way to kill, and this chart told it

 

 

by DE

No, this chart told that they are not the most used things.

[taiiat]

which is not the most easiest effective way to kill, and this chart told it

oh, they are. swing a couple times if someone doesn't run away, you win.

cast a Radial Damage Ability and they didn't run away? you win.

not being as easy to do as shooting more bullets doesn't have a whole lot of weight on balance. the fundamental of balance has to start with numbers in check for each other compared to any and all limited Resources. ease of use balancing is not the first step.

[cary2010haha1]

No, this chart told that they are not the most used things.

So , a few player's experience is more reliable than a offical statistics, we have nothing can said.

[rockscl]

 

 

i dont see how a weapon being easier to use doesnt make it the better, being easier to use just makes it even more reliable, particularily boltor and braton are the most versatile and easy in comparison to anything else

Edited July 16, 2015 by rockscl

[(PSN)Pharen]

What I got from this chart is Boltor prime is unbalanced in both PvE and PvP.

[Naftal]

So , a few player's experience is more reliable than a offical statistics, we have nothing can said.

No, it's just that the official statistics don't measure what's the best thing, they measure what is the most used. You yourself are making up the correlation between the two. Based on my experience in conclave, I'm pretty sure that most players either don't have the knowledge of the strongest and easiest to use stuff or are not interested in using them. This is why I don't want to make the connection between most used and most OP things in conclave.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Naftal

[cary2010haha1]

No, it's just that the official statistics don't measure what's the best thing, they measure what is the most used. You yourself are making up the correlation between the two. Based on my experience in conclave, I'm pretty sure that most players either don't have the knowledge of the strongest and easiest to use stuff or are not interested in using them. This is why I don't want to make the connection between most used and most OP things in conclave.

most used is usually the best, people will always willing to use the best item or ways to win the game.

[StinkyPygmy]

most used is usually the best, people will always willing to use the best item or ways to win the game.

"Usually" being the key term.

Usually does not mean "always".

The point the others are making, is that the two do not always go together. You would be surprised at how often they don't.

At its base, literally all we can glean from this with any certainty is what players are using the most.

The rest is all speculation.

 

Weapon A being used more then weapon B does not inherently mean weapon B is weaker. It could easily bee more powerful then weapon A.

Especially when considering tactics, and what it can be used in combination with etc.

The same applies to powers/melee vs weapons.

 

Correlation does not always equal causation.

Edited July 16, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[taiiat]

most used is usually the best, people will always willing to use the best item or ways to win the game.

in PvP, no, it usually isn't.

as always, the M16A3 in Battlefield 3 was NOT the best Gun. it was just the easiest one to use.

there were a few other Assault Rifles that would absolutely stomp it if you were skilled. but they weren't as easy to use.

that's why that gun was popular, because it was super easy to use. it was not even close to being the best Weapon(freaking AN-94).

the most used anything in a PvP game is the easiest to use effectively, not the best or most effective.

Edited July 16, 2015 by taiiat

[cary2010haha1]

"Usually" being the key term.

Usually does not mean "always".

The point the others are making, is that the two do not always go together. You would be surprised at how often they don't.

At its base, literally all we can glean from this with any certainty is what players are using the most.

The rest is all speculation.

 

Weapon A being used more then weapon B does not inherently mean weapon B is weaker. It could easily bee more powerful then weapon A.

Especially when considering tactics, and what it can be used in combination with etc.

The same applies to powers/melee vs weapons.

 

Correlation does not always equal causation.

 

 

It's not, look at Exca #1, well known it's the most powerful easy to use power pre-patch.

 

player's tendency is always recorded accurate in these offical statistics chart.

 

 

 

People usually tendency to choice to use the most powerful easiest way to win the game.

 

 

 

and the special few that not following the tendency is not so affect the big picture. 

[cary2010haha1]

in PvP, no, it usually isn't.

as always, the M16A3 in Battlefield 3 was NOT the best Gun. it was just the easiest one to use.

there were a few other Assault Rifles that would absolutely stomp it if you were skilled. but they weren't as easy to use.

that's why that gun was popular, because it was super easy to use. it was not even close to being the best Weapon(freaking AN-94).

the most used anything in a PvP game is the easiest to use effectively, not the best or most effective.

just the acknowledge of "best/most effective" is different 

 

 

and what's "best" actually means? In military we won't said anything about highest firepower or damage, we just want "enough"  firepower and more attention to reliability

Edited July 16, 2015 by cary2010haha1

[BluelitHalo]

MK-1 weapons and single hand sidearms tend to be the deadliest weapons in PvP.  They have higher damage than other variations to compensate for low fire rate, and damage per hit is valuable in a copter-centric meta where there's high punishment for missing.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Sonitorum

[StinkyPygmy]

It's not, look at Exca #1, well known it's the most powerful easy to use power pre-patch.

 

player's tendency is always recorded accurate in these offical statistics chart.

 

 

 

People usually tendency to choice to use the most powerful easiest way to win the game.

 

 

 

and the special few that not following the tendency is not so affect the big picture. 

Ok...

But thats still not how statistics work nor a good example of how to accurately interpret information.

You can't just fill the gaps with assumptions. You need to look exclusively at what the data shows and in this case, it shows exclusively what is being used the most.

Whether you like it or not, anything else is speculation.

 

Sorry OP, but that is not an accurate way to interpret the data.

There are way to many variables you have left out.

Edited July 16, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[cary2010haha1]

Ok...

But thats still not how statistics work nor a good example of how to accurately interpret information.

You can't just fill the gaps with assumptions. You need to look exclusively at what the data shows and in this case, it shows exclusively what is being used the most.

Whether you like it or not, anything else is speculation.

 

Sorry OP, but that is not an accurate way to interpret the data.

There are way to many variables you have left out.

Actually it's a "Extend speculation" which the statistics chart should be used, not just look in it and repeat wat's inside.

 

[R3DBelmont456]

I play a lot of Conclave both in Teams and in FFA and let me tell you... 90% of my matches are literally people just forming up either in the corner or the middle of the map and just having an E mashing contest to see who can kill each other with melee spam first... It's worse than halo because at least in that game the melee has a 1-2 second cooldown before you swing again... and I can agree with the chart in terms of what is used most, as I see at least 1-3 excals every game, same for the boltor prime...