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A Unintentional And Surprising Conversation I Had With A Friend Regarding The State Of The Game


Jamescell
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This is a conversation I recently had with a friend. I think that the explicit combination of suggestions I present is worth sending in as feedback. The conversation is perhaps eye-opening in some minor ways. And yes, the ending is real.

 

Me: what do you think about this

gameplay changes so that: there is no modding to directly increase damage

for example elemental mods would replace the weapon damage instead of adding to it

energy would be used as a universal ammo

ability energy would be replaced with cooldowns

all abilities that are damage oriented would be reworked

cool-downs would not be reduce-able

 

Friend: it looks like the advantage is making the game more challenging

which i dont think is necessary

 

Me: well missions would be balanced to compensate. Essentially you get players on a lot more even of a playing field

They can still customize, just not get hella OP

Oh and I forgot enemies would have significant damage resistance increases besides for certain places on their bodies where you can inflict higher amounts of damage (called diminishing returns)

balancing things would become much easier

 

Friend: this is an rpg tho

its about dumping time to get stronger

great idea for another game but in the end this system makes money

this system as in the current system

 

Me: I think that the changes wouldn’t really reduce revenue. If anything the game would make more money as gameplay would be more stimulating leading to more popularity and thus more money.

Anyways, once you get a few good frames max level- *granted it does take alot of time to max damage mods- its more about collecting $h!t

gameplay would be more engaging I think as well. instead of press four and bam or spray and pray

you would need to be more deliberate

doesn't mean you can’t mow down enemies. it would just require experience and not as many enemies

 

Friend: i think something like that can only be found in a whole other game

 

Me: well, that would be the point.

same everything but huge reforms/overhaul to general gameplay and how ridiculously OP people can get

it would be more tactical if anything. Not to mention if changes were made to mission and enemy design

 

Friend: i was actually hoping this game would be like what your describing when we first started playing

turned out its a grindfest

 

Me: well back then it could've gone in any direction

it wasnt really defined back then, there was more room to hope, more potential. And there seemed to be more openness to drastic change

the problem now is things are more focused on collection than gameplay because gameplay is $h!t. its about how you can best scam/abuse the system to get higher exp/loot returns.

 

Friend: wanna get on league

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Warframe needs changes, yes, but flattening everything with a huge nerf hammer is not the way to do it. as your friend said, spending time in the game to get stronger is part of it and many of us enjoy doing it.

 

and: NO cooldownds, cooldowns are the most stupid and arbitrary form of mechanic limitation.

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^energy isn't even a limitation. It's just a placeholder for a limitation and part of the reason why things are so polarized/broken. 

 

You may love getting stronger, but such a feature obstructs stimulating and adequately challenging gameplay. 

Edited by Jamescell
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Warframe needs changes, yes, but flattening everything with a huge nerf hammer is not the way to do it. as your friend said, spending time in the game to get stronger is part of it and many of us enjoy doing it.

 

and: NO cooldownds, cooldowns are the most stupid and arbitrary form of mechanic limitation.

No cooldowns? Ever? Arbitrary mechanic? really?

 

Why do you feel that way? I've seen cool down mechanics work really well when it comes to making very rewarding moves that must be used tactically or the game punishes you for being impatient with it. This is one way of doing things, but usually, Cool Downs work well in systems with little dependence on a "resource mechanic" for using those moves. If you look at MOBA's, they use both resource mechanics (energy pools, mana, etc) as well as Cool Downs on certain moves to prevent them from being spamable. This allows the Devs to make using those moves, FAR MORE REWARDING.

 

That said, you can also have a "charge system", which would mean that certain moves require you to have a prolonged casting animation. Perhaps you can cancel the animation and stop trying to do the move, perhaps you can't and trying to use it could make you stand still, exposed to attackers. Either way, the point of the system is to allow moves to be more powerful, but more difficult to pull off in addition to being punishable.

 

The result of these mechanics ultimately, while limiting within certain regards, allows for more powerful moves to exist within a balanced system.

 

Why do you feel like that would be "bad" for warframe? I personally see it potentially solving a lot of balancing issues if implemented properly, and making game play feel more rewarding for people who use skill and tactics, possibly even promoting teamwork if your "carry the team" type moves require a Tenno to charge up and be protected by other Tenno, etc.

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Well, it's not me that says it's bad for warframe, the developers themselves discarded the implementation of cooldowns, even though we do have some cooldowns in abilities in which makes sense to have them, i think we need more interesting and engaging mechanics than waiting, maybe after killing a certain amount of enemies, or after parrying some hits or something like that.

 

And OP is energy really a placeholder? i didn't know Steve and Scott had said that. Link the source.

Edited by Orbister
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^energy isn't even a limitation. It's just a placeholder for a limitation and part of the reason why things are so polarized/broken. 

 

You may love getting stronger, but such a feature obstructs stimulating and adequately challenging gameplay. 

OP is energy really a placeholder? i didn't know Steve and Scott had said that. Link the source.

 

And your perception of "stimulating and adequately challenging gameplay" it's not a universal concept, think about it before imposing it on others. I don't think that getting stronger is an obstruction either. Power creep is indeed a problem, but that doesn't mean we have to get rid of all and any progression system. I think you have been playing MOBAs too much...

 

Also don't get me wrong, i agree with you for the most part, but your solutions are in my opínion not the right ones, they sound too limiting and rather boring, i think a big part of the fun of warframe comes from customizing your warframe's and weapon's performance

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Well, it's not me that says it's bad for warframe, the developers themselves discarded the implementation of cooldowns, even though we do have some cooldowns in abilities in which makes sense to have them, i think we need more interesting and engaging mechanics than waiting, maybe after killing a certain amount of enemies, or after parrying some hits or something like that.

now that you mention it, I think I do recall them saying that, which is silly to me. I would like to know their reasoning.

 

Honestly, Trinity's old "Blessing" would have been fine, even if they had buffed it further, had they put a reasonable cool down on it. They could make really interesting ability augments too, ones that make your normal moves become more about "high risk/high reward" and make your warframe focus more on certain roles and situations that encourage players to try "playing differently", thus making the game feel more dynamic.

 

I do understand the game is already in so deep with a lot of it's current system and any major mechanic changes at this point are a big hassle, but honestly, would it not be worth it if it allowed them to mold Warframes to more skill based, more rewarding meta roles?

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now that you mention it, I think I do recall them saying that, which is silly to me. I would like to know their reasoning.

 

Honestly, Trinity's old "Blessing" would have been fine, even if they had buffed it further, had they put a reasonable cool down on it. They could make really interesting ability augments too, ones that make your normal moves become more about "high risk/high reward" and make your warframe focus more on certain roles and situations that encourage players to try "playing differently", thus making the game feel more dynamic.

 

I do understand the game is already in so deep with a lot of it's current system and any major mechanic changes at this point are a big hassle, but honestly, would it not be worth it if it allowed them to mold Warframes to more skill based, more rewarding meta roles?

Yea i agree i think energy is kinda broken, but staring at icons for the cooldowns to refresh would as bad or worse, but yea something more interactive would be awesome some kind of system based on triggers maybe i don't know, skill based and more interactive than just spamming or waiting to click

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I think there is too much emphasis, and money being thrown at preventing people from becoming OP. So what if someone is OP? (Actually when people say that they are really referring to someone who has little problems dealing with progression, OP is a whole different thing...). The emphsis should be on making engaging content and entertainment - even if it means it is easier for some people. Look at a game like Path of Exile - they LOVE their so-called "OP" players. They reward them, they give them more ridiculously out of this world content to challenge them and reward them for challenges. They don't make it easy to get  powerful - but they don't stop you from getting there with nerfs. You have a chance to be a "legend" in POE, if you can figure it out.

 

By contrast Warframe PUNISHES people for becoming top tier. They take you down, nerf you up, buff up the REGULAR mobs so you are severely inhibited... Talking about this almost makes me want to quit and go back to POE... Way too much energy is put into stopping people from advancing and no love for the experienced players. Warframe doesn't need to stop people from becoming "OP" they need to embrace it so its not an issue anymore. So people will say, well thats Warframe - you can become a super Tenno. Not "That's Warframe - where they nerf you to death and drop you into the void if you look like you can handle yourself."

 

There should be more videos of people doing outrageous stuff - not just the developers, but regular players. Used to be a lot of that until a cavalcade of hammers came down and made play more frustrating than actually challenging. Its promoting the game. There should be standout players that people are like - damn, how can I get like that - but DE stomps on players like that and nerf their equipment to oblivion because they don't want anyone "OP". Stopping people from being "OP" has been the number one issue that has been dragging Warframe down ever since they started nerfing stuff. Iff there is any light at the end of the tunnel it wont be from take-aways, but from more acceptance and appreciation of the users who make the game great.

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and: NO cooldownds, cooldowns are the most stupid and arbitrary form of mechanic limitation.

Can you elaborate on what makes cooldowns "arbitrary"? 

 

Also, the bit at the end of the OP's post where his friend says "wanna get on league" i.e. he wants to play the most popular, widely played game in the world - cooldowns galore in that game.

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Can you elaborate on what makes cooldowns "arbitrary"? 

 

Also, the bit at the end of the OP's post where his friend says "wanna get on league" i.e. he wants to play the most popular, widely played game in the world - cooldowns galore in that game.

Yes, a MOBA a genre built completely on "fairness" a game genre where you usually play in one single tiny map for the sake of "fairness"... a hugely different genre to warframe, also, check my other posts you will see what i mean by arbitrary, actually what i mean by "not arbitrary".

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^energy isn't even a limitation. It's just a placeholder for a limitation and part of the reason why things are so polarized/broken. 

 

You may love getting stronger, but such a feature obstructs stimulating and adequately challenging gameplay. 

 

It really doesn't obstruct stimulating and adequately challenging gameplay.  It simply provides an alternative method to provide that gameplay then a MOBA or an action focused, non-growth game would.  Gamers who don't enjoy that style of play not being satisfied with it is not the same as it not existing.

 

Aside from the obvious roguelikes - diablo stands out - every 4X type game ever made says "Getting strong doesn't preclude or obstruct gameplay."  As do multiple tycoon-style games, and I'll bet I can think of a dozen other types.

Edited by Phatose
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I think there is too much emphasis, and money being thrown at preventing people from becoming OP. So what if someone is OP? (Actually when people say that they are really referring to someone who has little problems dealing with progression, OP is a whole different thing...). The emphsis should be on making engaging content and entertainment - even if it means it is easier for some people. Look at a game like Path of Exile - they LOVE their so-called "OP" players. They reward them, they give them more ridiculously out of this world content to challenge them and reward them for challenges. They don't make it easy to get  powerful - but they don't stop you from getting there with nerfs. You have a chance to be a "legend" in POE, if you can figure it out.

 

By contrast Warframe PUNISHES people for becoming top tier. They take you down, nerf you up, buff up the REGULAR mobs so you are severely inhibited... Talking about this almost makes me want to quit and go back to POE... Way too much energy is put into stopping people from advancing and no love for the experienced players. Warframe doesn't need to stop people from becoming "OP" they need to embrace it so its not an issue anymore. So people will say, well thats Warframe - you can become a super Tenno. Not "That's Warframe - where they nerf you to death and drop you into the void if you look like you can handle yourself."

 

There should be more videos of people doing outrageous stuff - not just the developers, but regular players. Used to be a lot of that until a cavalcade of hammers came down and made play more frustrating than actually challenging. Its promoting the game. There should be standout players that people are like - damn, how can I get like that - but DE stomps on players like that and nerf their equipment to oblivion because they don't want anyone "OP". Stopping people from being "OP" has been the number one issue that has been dragging Warframe down ever since they started nerfing stuff. Iff there is any light at the end of the tunnel it wont be from take-aways, but from more acceptance and appreciation of the users who make the game great.

Ha ha ha ha ha. There's a fine line between genuinely looking powerful and feeling powerful because you built up this cool attack, and spamming Peacemaker or M Prime all the live-long day. That rewards not trying to play, at all. Spamming isn't cool, or powerful, it's dumb, lackluster, and needs to have something done about it.

How much have they nerfed that wasn't justified, anyway? M Prime still is useable, as is blessing. The S-Gammacor was like, one thing, and pretty much everything else hasn't been touched, at all. Boltor Prime and Soma Prime are still potent as ever. The trouble is even early-game players can get them and cheese through content.

As for the energy system? I think we can do without having to wait for our abilities to cooldown. I say we nerf some of the energy mods like Flow a bit, and then, the kicker: Cut Energy Restores and possibly Energy Siphon from the game.

Boom. Now you have to get energy yourself instead of puttin' down pads. You can still feel powerful without having too much of it.

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Your friend wasnt wrong on 1 thing, the game was like that WHEN I WAS STARTING.

 

Then it was downward spiral of powercreep which turned it into what it is now, no actual changes were done to change game into grindfest with helpless enemies.

 

Yes, a MOBA a genre built completely on "fairness" a game genre where you usually play in one single tiny map for the sake of "fairness"... a hugely different genre to warframe, also, check my other posts you will see what i mean by arbitrary, actually what i mean by "not arbitrary".

Rpgs, shooters, rts all use cooldowns already.

 

Even even me3 a game from which warframe borrowed heavily had cooldowns, payday 2 which is same genre have cooldowns where they are required.

 

^energy isn't even a limitation. It's just a placeholder for a limitation and part of the reason why things are so polarized/broken. 

 

You may love getting stronger, but such a feature obstructs stimulating and adequately challenging gameplay. 

Power growth isnt a problem in itself, problem is varying speed of growth on every aspect and no real plan on how it should progress.

 

Weapon dmg skyrockets, 50 times growth, ability power is barely increased 2 times without sacrificing other stats, defenses get over 2 times stronger but still its nothing compared to 50 times growth, enemies get stronger but not fast enough which quickly makes them obsolete.

 

Which leads us to stupid situations in which enemy which can survive our fire can oneshot us, which in turn pushes absolute cc, which destroys all difficulty and challenge.

We arent steadily pushed back by stronger enemies on endless, we simply jump from steamrolling to steamrolling using cc to enemies soak too many bullets without doing anything.

Edited by Davoodoo
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Never to cooldowns, I'm sorry but those things are just going to slow down the game and punish people who are casters that don't just spam one ability, of which there are many of us.

 

I think the key here is changing powers to be more interactive, while at the same time expanding enemy mechanics to ensure that they have tools that make encountering them not only more tactical, but also makes it fair to the players to fight them. Things like the Excal changes with Exalted Blade, and how Nova's Molecular Prime was changed to tie to Duration, Range, and Strength. Thus, player effectiveness and powers are not nerfed, however, our enemies have mechanics that make encountering them progressively enjoyable and feels great throughout the gaming experience.

 

For our enemies, things like these:

 

Grineer:


Faction Ideology Overall:


As the Grineer represent the only actually militant force in our WarFrame universe, I hope to impress that upon the player by not only giving feedback on the individual units that we face, but also the tactics to which the player sees our enemy units moving. For the Grineer, the obvious tactical ideology that this faction would have would be a focus of Squad composition and strategy, similar to what we have in today's military. Specific units for specific tasks, while also providing a hierarchical ladder similar to their cultural reverence of The Queens. Status is reflected by rank, and those above are more mechanically diversified and potent than their underlings. These higher units (i.e. Grineer Commander, Grineer Bombard, Grineer Heavy Gunner) would reflect their rank by presence and mechanical variation, while also coordinating (in appearance) the rest of their squad through telegraphs like a hand signal, or verbal commands that their squad units respond to and act accordingly with.


Grineer Scorpions:


Levels 1-15 Scorpions is what we have now.

Levels 16-30 Scorpions are able to block bullets/roll out of the way of incoming skillshot/ranged abilities and bullets. This gives the Scorpion some survive ability as it's one of the few units bringing a sword to a laser gun fight. Also allows the Scorpion some added defense in melee combat as well.

Levels 31-45 Scorpions now have a stance for their Machete to better utilize their weapon. Thus, the Scorpions can actually go into hand to hand combat with the power and technique befitting of one of the Grineer's few melee units, and one of the higher units at that.

Levels 46-60 Scorpions have the ability to shoot their grappling hooks into terrain, thus allowing them to use the environment vertically and fly around/across the battlefield. This could also allow them to resist knockback effects by shooting their grappling hooks into the ground to resist it. Or avoid such abilities completely by grapple hooking out of the way of the incoming ability.

Levels 61-80 Scorpions attain the ability to walk on walls through hooks on their prosthetic feet (or maybe just changing their feet with mechanical claws, sorry for making more work for the animations and model department!). Freeing up their hands to combat wall running Tenno, Infested Units, and also their hooks.

Levels 80+ Scorpions now have another sword, thus giving them dual wield capabilities, in addition to using their feet as grappling hooks, as they've been given more hooks to use. This change makes them a very mobile and powerful unit on the battlefield.

As a note, giving the Scorpions a telegraph such as a more audible and unique sound effect when firing hooks, or walking on wall/ceiling surfaces, would be a good idea. With these units moving in three dimensions and with more varied methods, tracking them on the battlefield would already be cumbersome visually.

Thus, we have challenge from content that is not just a rehash of the content that we have, but an expansion of this content by giving content better mechanics as their levels go up.

Veteran players actually face a challenge, rather than just more bullet sponges. We have a greater dynamic in end-game, and our enemies become far more interesting to fight


Grineer Heavy Gunners:


Levels 1-20 is how we see them now. To ensure that beginner players and lower planet content aren't too overwhelmed.

Levels 21-35 gives them the ability to use their AoE ability to stop knock back abilities. Thus giving Heavy Gunners the ability to resist some CC, but also use current assets for an expanded function.

Levels 36-50 allows them to deploy a stationary shield (much like the Grineer Shield Lancer) to use as a defensive measure. With this defensive measure added, the Heavy Gunners can better pose a threat to us as a "heavy unit" on the field, outside of a health stat/armor increase.

Levels 51-65 provides them the use of a secondary weapon/melee weapon (stance added). Holstered, of course, but usable weapons should the AI decide to spice up the weapon variety and fight us with more than just a regular gun. Adding in a melee weapon also creates some interesting situations in close ranged combat, or when enemies are disarmed.

Levels 65-79 gives them the ability to dual wield a Melee and a primary/secondary. Essentially approaching the end-tier of Raids, this change makes heavy gunners a clear threat on the battlefield, and something that players should deal with quickly. They become a force to be reckoned with, but one that can still be overcome.

Levels 80+, in this case I'm pondering replacing the Heavy Gunners with a weaker variant of Lech Krill, minus the invulnerability and RNG phases. Essentially something of a second in command squad unit to Lech Krill. As their presence would primarily be in Raids, their presence in the highest levels of Grineer content would (I hope) justify their presence here.


Grineer Commander:


For the Commander Unit, a change to his status would be adding in a mechanic similar to what we have with Rhino's Roar. Dubbed the Command Ability (or what have you), this emphasizes the Commander unit as the head of the squad and a top priority for enemy units to deal with. Having the ability be limited to one cast per twenty seconds might be a good idea, to ensure that this ability isn't overwhelming to newer players, nor veterans as the enemy unit scales later into content.

Levels 1-15 gives them the ability to use a Command ability to empower nearby allies. As a commanding unit on the battlefield, this helps to increase the effectiveness of the Commander, and fits his role aesthetically. Similar to Rhino's Roar, this ability could give a telegraph akin to Roar's effect, only now emanating off of the enemy units, rather than Tenno allies. The Commander himself could telegraph this by an entire body animation and audible cue.

Levels 16-30 allows the Grineer Commander to teleport a group of allied units with him upon utilizing his teleportation ability. Essentially becoming a squad leader, the commander can now better fit his role as the head unit. Repositioning Grineer troops and displacing enemy units can be a dangerous combination on the battlefield, and now the Commander is more of a unit to prioritize in battle as well.

Levels 31-45 The Command ability now has a chance (50%?) to remove procs placed on allied units. Adding in this change allows the Commander to assist the squad with removing debuffs. Similar to how field commanders in the military have to boost allied morale and empower their troops, this could be a useful trait for the Commander to have in later content.

Levels 46-60 gives the Grineer Commander heavier armor, and allows the Command ability to have a chance of increasing the level of allied units in the area. Grineer Commanders now also have a melee weapon on their person (complete with stance).

Levels 60-80 Commanders have an additional melee weapon and can deploy a Grineer Regulator. Used in synergy, they can create very difficult situations for Tenno to deal with. This changes allows the Commander to focus more on attacking enemy units and coordinating the squad, whereas the Regulator can perform the more auxiliary military functions.

Levels 80+ Commanders can now Teleport to another allied unit, rather than solely displacing an enemy unit. This allows the Grineer Commander to truly move squads wherever the Grineer need them most. Their repositioning could turn the tide of battle in favour of the Grineer, or directly to the enemy, if the Commander is not wary of crafty Tenno.

These changes help to make the Grineer Commander an actual Commander on the battlefield. Leading his troops and heading the charge against foes. Even in later content, if a Tenno can predict where the Commander would move his squad, they could essentially wipe out two whole squads or the majority of one in one fell swoop.


Grineer Regulator:


One of the very few support class units we see on the field for the Grineer, this rework is in the hopes of ensuring that this units presence is appreciated and felt by allied units, while becoming a more prioritized target for enemy units to dispatch before it becomes a noticeable threat.

Levels 1-20 Regulators are the units that we currently see on the battlefield.

Levels 11-20 Regulators emit a radial pulse every 10 seconds, which has a chance to knock down enemy units. Providing a bit of CC to the Grineer, the Regulators use now expands outside of just an enemy damage buff and UI jammer. This small addition allows players to identify the position of the Regulator in a more obvious way as well, as some issues occur with locating the Regulator in certain WarFrame maps. The radius of the pulse may be kept to 10 meters, for the sake of it not becoming too powerful in such an early stage.

Levels 21-30 Regulators increase the buffs given to allied units. Regulators are also equipped with shields similar to the Grineer Shield Lancer to provide extra defense on the battlefield. This helps to provide some survive ability to the Regulator while also emphasizing their support role.

Levels 31-40 Regulators have a chance to remove the procs applied to allied units upon its pulse. Pulse intervals are reduced to 8 seconds. Similar to what the reworked Nullifiers can do for allied units, this change helps to remedy the allied units around the Regulators, another added layer of defense and support.

Levels 41-50 Regulators can now move freely through the battlefield and can utilize a short ranged teleport to escape/reposition every 10 seconds. This change, in tandem with a Grineer Commander's reworked teleport ability, allows the Regulator to move from squad to squad on the battlefield and support groups in different positions.

Levels 51-60 have Regulators with increased speed, and pulse intervals are reduced to 5 seconds, with increased radius. Covering a larger area with pulses and moving between squads, Regulators can now support more than just a squad in this instance, but also a larger platoon as well.

These changes help to make the Regulator a more useful unit on the battlefield, and helps them to become a very strong support to the allies around it. Rather than just a damage increase and enemy UI jammer, it now becomes something that Tenno can audibly hear and prioritize accordingly on the battlefield.



Grineer Eviscerator (Frontier and Arid):


The Grineer Eviscerator is a unit that presents an interesting encounter where, if hit by a saw disc, more often than not players find themselves hit with the slash proc, often stacking as the Eviscerator unleashes more volleys of saw discs at the player. The feedback proposed for the Grineer Eviscerator is in the hopes of making the slash procs less of an occurrence, while also making the Eviscerator a heavy hitter, should it land a shot.

Levels 1-15 Eviscerators now fire at 50% their current fire rate. This change is to ensure that newer players aren’t overwhelmed with a volley of saw discs.

Levels 16-30 Eviscerators now have an increase of 25% fire rate, along with a 25% increase of ricochets to help give the Eviserators more precedence on the battlefield.

Levels 31-45 Eviscerators now have the Brakk as a possible weapon to use in battle. As the Eviscerators were a unit with presence during the Gradivus Dilemma, having them carry a stock version Brakk weapon would be an interesting way to reintroduce the weapon to Grineer troops and introduce this weapons capabilities to newer players.

Levels 46-60 Eviscerators now can charge their shots to fire in concession. Essentially unloading their entire clip, this helps the Eviscerator become a massive threat, should it charge the shot completely. Consequentially, the charge time for this massive volley would be around 3 seconds, to ensure players have a time to react. (This would be given a telegraph of the Eviscerator standing in place to charge the shot. Additionally, an audio cue should be added to ensure players are notified of the incoming charged shot and the general direction, to allow them to respond accordingly.)

Levels 61-80 Eviscerators now have the Atterax as a possible weapon to use in battle, complete with a Grineer Stance. Befitting an enemy using a saw disc launcher, the Atterax is a great complementary weapon choice to slash enemies apart while also keeping a distance.

Levels 80+ Eviscerators have the ability to split shot their saw discs. This lowers their accuracy, but increases the bounce chance of saw discs being able to hit targets through ricochets. (This cannot be used in tandem with a charged shot.)

With the changes to the Eviscerator, they go from an enemy unit that annoys players through extremely fast shots to being a threat on the battlefield to be feared, but able to be overcome. Their growth over time emphasizes their use of the miter and other weapons that have slashing as their mainstay, while also giving them secondary and melee weapons to help diversify their weapon usage.

*A reminder that miter shots can be deflected using melee blocking, even in their current iteration. A creative melee block could yield some interesting results on the battlefield, Tenno ;)




Corpus:


Faction Composition Overall:


The focus for the Corpus review is to emphasize the "endless automatons" that Darvo reveals the Corpus have in their arsenal. Comprising the bulk of the Corpus army will be the robotics, even going as far as changing some commoner units we have currently into robotics, and expanding the robotics in the Corpus faction. This increase in robotic enemies and decrease in more humanoid enemies helps to make the Corpus more distinct not only in appearance and weaponry from the Grineer, but also their tactical overview and army composition as well.


Faction Ideology Overall:


The Corpus Ideology will focus on AI tactics, rather than squad movements and composition like the Grineer rework proposes. This makes distinct the Corpus' AI network being sophisticated, while putting profit as the paramount paradigm. More deliberation on this topic will be added as the idea is fleshed out.


Corpus Crewmen:


Levels 1-10 is how we see them now.

Levels 11-20 gives them increased fire rate. Slight progression from before, to help them deal damage quicker as the difficulty increases.

Levels 21-30 allows for use of multi-elemental grenades (that only detonate with one element). Thus, the Crewmen receive an interesting tool that can be useful for engagements and helps to make this grunt unit more useful. Having a UI displaying when and where a grenade is in the vicinity of the player would be key, in this case.

Levels 31-40 provides the use of more accurate weaponry, although it is now burst fire to conserve ammo. Higher accuracy, but lower ammo consumption effectively makes the Crewmen a better shot with more chances to land, as they don't expend their clips as quickly.

Levels 41-50+ gives them a melee weapon to use in close combat (stance added and allows them to block). Now they can fight players in close combat with more than just aiming up their guns at our faces, but actually present a duel or ninja-esque battle to players who decide to go into melee mode or sword alone. This also helps with weapon variety of enemies if these enemies are disarmed or choose to go into melee mode.


Corpus Nullifiers:


The idea behind the Nullifiers was a very interesting one, and one that could seriously alter the dynamic of the game, but as it stands, the Nullifiers act more so to limit player weapon choice, rather than hard-stop our powers solely. As such, my feedback for the Nullifiers is that they need a bit of a rework, to help them actually do their job equally of stopping our powers, but not limiting player play style, both with powers and with weapons.

Firstly, let's rename the Corpus Nullifiers Corpus Guardians. The mechanics of the Guardian unit is that it deploys a stationary 180 degree shield arc that protects all units behind it from CC/Utility effects and damage that is incoming from the direction it is facing. Think of it as a larger version of Alad V's thrown down shield during his Mutalist Boss Fight. Removing the limit on the amount of damage able to be done to the shield, but also upping its base HP, gives it a strong resistance to our powers, but does not limit our weapon variety. Additionally, any Corpus weaponry fired out of the shield receives a small damage bonus. (Tenno may also utilize this boost, should they be carrying Corpus weaponry).

Thus, the Guardian acts as protection for the Corpus against our powers, but does not hinder our weapon choice.

Players can now either tough it out in front of the shield against the enemy squads and fire upon it/use their powers until it falls. Or they can use their abilities and/or parkour skills to vault over/around the shield to kill the units taking cover behind it. The Guardian is now a unit that is useful and interesting to fight, but does not outright remove self-cast powers like Iron Skin or Hysteria, as the shield protects the occupants from outside interference/damage, but it does not remove them.

Scaling for the reworked Nullifier are as follows:

Levels 1-15 gives units behind it immunity to CC/Utility and damage incoming from the direction the shield is facing. It's somewhat like how we have them now, but with the bubble cut in half to ensure players still have to deal with a large enemy AoE ward, but it doesn't outright gimp multiple play styles.

Levels 16-30 gives a higher increase to damage for Corpus weaponry fired outwards from the shield. Beneficial and synergetic with the Corpus army, this change allows the Guardian to be a great asset on the battlefield for those who have Corpus weaponry equipped, Tenno included.

Levels 31-45 gives the Guardian the ability to remove procs from units entering into, or already within, its defensive radius. Bolstering its essence as a defensive ward, this change allows the Guardian to further support the units it protects.

Levels 46-60 allows the Guardian's shield to deflect incoming fire/powers in a random direction dictated by RNG. Somewhat of a buffer for the Guardian, it adds a bit more defense to the EHP of the shield, thus allowing for a short extension of defense for the units behind it. However, outside units beware, the ricochets might prove deadly.

Levels 60-80 allows the Guardian to absorb a portion of incoming damage and converts it into health (max 10% of incoming damage). The added defense could be telegraphed by the shield brightening or shimmering (for our color blind friends), thus visually showing an added protective measure present on the reworked Nullifier.

Levels 80+ Guardians can now be moved by a console at the center of the half circle shield. Essentially making the Nullifier a moving tank/castle, by this time the Guardian shields are Raid worthy, and this added mechanic adds a powerful way to make the Guardians a moving fortress, for anyone who can surmise to use them. (Essentially a Tenno Squad could use the Guardian as moving cover as well, should they be able to deal with the threats within the shield).

The reworked Nullifier now becomes a potent tool to stopping our powers, but not so limiting as to how to deal with the threat. In addition, it functions as a useful tool for any who can surmise how to use it once it is deployed.


Sniper Crewmen:


As the primary long range Corpus unit that is not a Moa, I would hope to increase the efficacy of the Corpus Sniper as a ranged unit, but also provide it with some interesting mechanics. To assist with the scaling and identification of a Sniper Crewmen on the field, adding in a laser sight to signal where the Crewmen is aiming would help make their unit known on the field, but not overly powered against newer players.

Levels 1-10 remain as we see them now, with the added laser to help newer players identify where the Sniper Crewmen is perched.

Levels 11-20 gives the sniper unit a deployable Shockwave Moa to help with defense, should an enemy unit come into close range. An added measure to ensure that the Sniper can hold their ground should enemy units be able to push past the bulk of the Corpus squad.

Levels 21-30 gives the Sniper Crewmen a melee and secondary weapon to utilize, as the need arises. Although this change may come at a lower level than other units, their general squishiness and ranged nature makes this change less felt, but also more unique should encounters in close combat arise.

Levels 31-40 increases the fire rate of the Sniper Crewmen's Lanka by 25% to help with eliminating enemy threats more quickly, in addition to increasing accuracy by 25%. Emphasizing the role of a Sniper, a specialization of such a sort can help to individualize this unit in higher levels.

Levels 41-50+ allows the Sniper Crewmen to deploy a weaker version of Alad V's Mutalist shield. This shield also functions similarly to how the Corpus Guardian (Reworked Corpus Nullifier) Shield functions. Having this be used can help the Sniper Crewmen to set up a fortified sniping position away and back from the main Corpus force, and pose a threat to units as they proceed to advance through the battlefield, while also providing cover for Corpus squads on the offensive or retreating.

These changes would hopefully allow the Sniper Crewmen to become a felt force on the battle field and be more individualized when it comes to encounters. Their added nature as offensively strong enemy units with slight defenses emphasizes ranged play, while not discounting that they can make a quick escape with the deployment of a Shockwave MOA or hold their ground with their shield.




Infested:


Faction Ideology Overall:


With an emphasis of a "horde" mentality, the following has been suggested by Deus_X_Machina to help and outline the Faction style to which the overall Infested group would permeate. These points will be expanded and implemented into the Infested Units as they are looked at for expansions within this thread:

- Walls start to get used
- The ceiling is used
- Spawning / travelling in ceiling vents could exist for smaller infested
- more spreadout pattern for headon attacking infested
- more durable units running in front of the squishier ones that deal more damage
- cutting off routes
- targeted surrounding of one Tenno
- targeted cornering of Tennos
- seperating Tennos (driving a wedge between them and trying to lead them apart for example)
- Infested could crawl over each other to reach a target (get surrounded in 3d)


Infested Crawler


Levels 1-10 standard Crawler Unit.

Levels 11-20 Crawlers now move 10% faster while in a toxin cloud. This promotes synergy with the Mutalist Osprey unit, as now the Osprey can drop the Crawler, and the Crawler may now use the Toxin Cloud as a type of steroid or accelerant.

Levels 21-30 Crawlers now have the ability to change elemental status' if inflicted with certain base elemental damage. This makes them an interesting threat, as they can now be infused with different elemental damage types against enemy units.

Levels 31-40 Crawlers may now latch onto players and hold them in position. Thus, this allows other Infested units to swarm players, as any good mindless horde would.

Levels 41-50+ Crawlers are now able to become Bloated Crawlers. In other words, they are able to be lifted and hurled by large Infested Units, such as the Healers, at a location. Upon landing on an area, they explode after three seconds, releasing a small radial blast of whatever element they were before detonation. During this charge up, players can attack the crawler with guns or powers to destroy them and ensure that no AoE damage occurs, or hit the Crawler with melee to push them away from the area. Aiming a Bloated Crawler is simple, just face your crosshairs to an area and hit it to launch it.

The final change to higher leveled Crawlers turns them into a very useful tool on the battlefield for both the Infested and their enemies. They become a dregs level unit with some interesting mechanics, but ultimately aren't too crazy to merit immediate attention unless they become Bloated.


Infested Charger:


Levels 1-10 retain the current unit characteristics.

Levels 11-20 Chargers gain the ability to dodge incoming attacks by rolling sideways or hopping backwards. This gives Chargers a few more tactical options in fights, without making them far too agile to still be counted among the most common of the Infested units.

Levels 21-30 Chargers can mutate for a short time and experience an adrenaline rush, allowing them to charge at enemy units faster and strike at an increased attack speed (1.5 normal attack speed). This mechanic allows the Chargers to actually charge at enemy units, giving their namesake some weight.

Levels 31-40 Chargers can now burrow into the environment. As enemy units approach, Chargers can spring from their holes and attack enemy units. Adds a bit of a scare factor to the unit and allows them to be tactical in their approach.

Levels 41-50+ Chargers now are able to climb and run along walls and ceilings. Adding verticality and versatility into their arsenal further, this helps to expand the ways Chargers can spawn in and reach players while also giving an interesting tactic to help accentuate the horde mentality that the Infested permeate.




Orokin:


Corrupted Bombard:


The bane of many a player's Void expeditions, the hopes of this rework is to make the Corrupted Bombards still a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield, but not so detesting as they are now. The following changes are to continue the feeling of the Bombards being a priority target, while also giving the surrounding units around them the cadence of presence that the Corrupted Bombards are on the field. In that spirit, allowing the Bombard Missiles to also harm allied units, along with enemy units, is a change I would propose from the outset. As self explosives like the Penta can damage a player if they use it, I hope this mechanic also creates some interesting situations for both the Tenno and allies of the Corrupted Bombard.

Levels 1-15 Bombards now have their fire rates reduced to 50%, with missiles travel speed and armor reduced to 75% their current rate. As their presence and armor values already make them a formidable force on the battlefield, slight reduction to armor is to help them become less bullet sponges as they are now. This change is to allow first timers who visit the Void to realize the strength of the Bombard's weaponry, but not overwhelmed by the constant knock downs and AoE attacks that the missiles are notorious for.

Levels 16-30 Bombards can now deploy an Orokin drone for defensive measure of allied units. The Orokin Drones now hover slightly higher than they had before. This added safety precaution is to ensure that drones are not directly damaged by the Bombards' AoE blasts from missiles, and the next upcoming changes.

Levels 31-45 Bombards now have a unique grenade mechanic added to them. These grenades are similar to the Bombard Missiles in that they have a slight AoE. However, instead of knocking down players, these grenades knocks them up into the air. Similar to the newly released Tonkor weapon, this gives the Bombard the ability to displace enemy units. However, similar to the Tonkor, players still have agency while airborne. These grenades also affect enemy units as well. Think of it like a poor mans Bounce in this case, as now units could be launched airborne.

Levels 46-60 Bombards now have the Ankyros Prime as a Melee weapon for them to use. As they're the main tanks of the Orokin Corrupted, having them equipped with the Ankyros Prime makes them an interesting to foe to fight in close quarters. Giving them the Ankyros Prime also allows them Knock Back. (not that it is not knockdown, just knock back, to ensure players have agency) (Hats of to those who are Melee enthusiasts, I hope this change is something you'll find challenging!)

Levels 61-79 Bombards now also have the Bronco Prime as a secondary that they can utilize on the battlefield. A close range hand cannon essentially, this can be used if enemy units come closer into range to the Bombard. In conjunction with the Ankyros Prime, Bombards can Knock Back enemies, should the get too close, and switch to the Bronco Prime for close quarters gun combat.

Levels 80+ Bombards receive a change in mechanics through an ability called Bombard's Volley. This locks the Bombard in place, however, they have their fire rate doubled (essentially returned to their normal fire rate as we have them now) and gain an increase of armor (125% of their current iteration). (A telegraph such as the Bombard preparing to lock down (an animation of maybe three seconds?) should be implemented to ensure players have time to react before the Bombard let's loose his volley.)

Overall these changes are to help newer players not be gobsmacked and knocked down repeatedly by the Bombards, but also make them a felt force on the battlefield as the heavy unit of the Corrupted Arsenal. Each change emphasizes impactful gameplay and weaponry, while also creating some interesting situations for players to try and understand and work with on the battlefield.

For instance, allowing the Bombard to fire his volley may seem like a bad idea, but if a player can utilize the missiles and redirect it towards enemy units, they could essentially create instances where friendly fire would benefit their team by eliminating threats for them. Other instances like the Knock Up mechanic could be used to knock up enemy units that are incoming for melee combat, essentially displacing them instead of agile Tenno adept at the game's parkour.

Corrupted Ancient Healers:

This unit has come under fire as of late, and with the recent mechanical additions DE has implemented to the Healer, its complementary units within the Void have more so become an issue that is extremely difficult to deal with. The General feedback given for the Corrupted Healers (that I have seen) focuses on the immense range of the heals, the mechanic of Healers intaking very little damage, and the mitigation of abilities, especially discriminating against certain abilities as well. The hopes of the following feedback is to ensure that the Healer is still a primary support unit for the Corrupted to rely on, but not so game breaking as they are now.

Base Mechanical Changes:

Ancient Healers have a few tweaks to their mechanics. A paramount concern is the multiplicative or stacking mechanics occuring with the Corrupted Ancient Healers. In tandem with these changes to follow, rather than allowing the stacking to continue, the damage mitigation should be removed from their lower levels, and the instances of damage mitigation cannot stack as well. This is to ensure that enemy units do not obtain absurd amounts of EHP simply by the presence of more than one Corrupted Ancient Healer.

 

Instead of an unclear range as to the Ancient Healers at the moment, a set distance of 10 meters would be a good way to gauge their Healing capabilities. Additionally, have the Healers act as an actual healing unit, rather than a straight forward damage reduction tool. Healing surrounding units for 10% of their max health per second might be a good way to go about it. Alternatively, healing units for a percentage of health lost might prove to be a more substantial healing formula. Regardless, either route seems to be a far better alternative than what we have now. 

 

Healers also now intake damage from the units they are healing, maybe 25% of that damage, to ensure that the surrounding units survive. Also with this change, ensuring that the Healers do have a substantial amount of Health may be required, as now instead of damage mitigation, it's an actual healing mechanic.

 

Also, changing the Healer's grappling hook into the Infested Healers arm would be a visual improvement, as it is somewhat game breaking to see a Healer launching a Grineer Scorpion's hook to pull us towards them. The recent Lore placed on the Corrupted Ancient Healer may work to disprove that these are Scorpions, after all, as no Grineer unit has the capability to heal in such a manner.

Visual Tweaks:

Ultimately, as more Ancient units become Corrupted, the hope is that their visual variations become more prominent to ensure players can discern their differences on the battlefield more clearly. As the models for the Ancient Healer and the Ancient Disruptor are similar, and only visually different in color variation, their model changes when they become Corrupted would better give players visual cues as to which is the Healer, and which is the Disruptor.

Levels 1-15 Corrupted Ancient Healers hold the mechanics given above, rather than the iteration that they currently possess. These changes ensure that the Healer actually fills the role as a Healer, but does not overwhelm newer players to their mechanical uniqueness.

 

Levels 16-30 Healers now have an increased rate of damage linking, whereas instead of taking 25% of the damage of surrounding allies, they now take 50% of that damage. Consequentially, 5% of total damage taken is counted as health restored to the Corrupted Ancient Healer, to help give them a scaling HP value in tandem with making them a bit of a beefier unit. The field radius of their healing aura could be expanded to maybe 15 meters as well, to ensure that they can cover a larger radius.

 

Levels 31-45 Healers now have a pulsating aura, rather than a constant healing aura. With this change, Healers now can heal targets at a faster rate, with 20% of total enemy health restored per pulse, having it be one pulse every three seconds as well. Depending on the number of allied units healed, the Healer receives a percentage of its health back. (i.e. if 10 units are healed, the Healer receives 5% of health back) This turns the Healer into a more formidable support unit, but it also doesn't overwhelm the player with units recovering their health at an absurd amount and pace.

 

Levels 46-60 Healers can now scale the environment, as most other Infested do in other reworks. A more retroactive change, this helps to make the Corrupted's approach more three dimensional. It also acts as a retroactive change as well, should the Corrupted be expanded with more units that can scale the environment (i.e. the majority of the Infested, and the reworked Grineer Scorpions, should DE decide to Corrupt this unit). Healer Pulses now shorten the duration of procs on allied units by 50%. 

 

Levels 61-80+ Healers now emit one final pulse upon death that expands to 20 meters, and removes procs applied to allied units within the area. Somewhat of a last stand mechanic, this change emphasizes that the healer is a unit to be dealt with quickly, and hopefully away from other enemy units. The proc removal allows other units to be strengthened by the last stand mechanic this entails, therein fulfilling the role of a healer unit.

 

Levels 80+ Healers receive a mechanic where, when units are affected by the healing pulse, they now heal 15% of their health over time when outside of the Healer's effective radius, only immediately after being hit with a healing pulse. This change helps to make allied units of the Healer more mobile, rather than dependent on the Healers and sticking around them. Also, Healers can now intake 10% of incoming damage to themselves and translate that into 5% of health increase to units affected by their pulses. Also, this change ensures that the returns to Healer's by units surrounding them aren't so drastic, as they are now.

 

Overall, these changes ensure that the Healer is a powerful support unit that should be dealt with quickly on the battlefield, but it does not cheapen their encounters with damage mitigation or the stacking of their mitigation affects. They complete their tasks as healers through multiple means, and overall become a stronger unit in higher levels, without having the need for mitigation.

 

 

As Original Orokin units are added into the game (hopefully), this section may be expanded upon.

 

Thus, our players receive powers that are still just as powerful before, but call for them to use a bit more skill in the execution, and our enemies receive expansive mechanics to ensure progression and immersion are prevalent throughout the game.

 

Source Thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/425117-rework-all-the-enemies-corrupted-ancient-healers/

Edited by AlphaHorseman
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