#deathtothelotus

[Eldnacpeek]

This is our fight, and I will see it finished. The Tenno are blind, and we will make them see.

But not today. Rest your weary head, brother. Tomorrow we will continue our campaign against the heretics.

 

 

 

I am getting really tired of the Role Playing subforum leaking into General Discussion. I'll just say it right here; stop. 

 

I could go on and on about how "making them see" is pathetic because you can't force someone into believing something when at heart they truly don't believe but I won't. Why? I realize this is not a role playing thread and that would only call for major derailment, that's why.

Edited August 3, 2015 by LazerSkink

[Institute-Marksman]

I'd rather call her Natah to spite her. I don't care if she's good or not or even if she has our best interests at heart.

You don't have to care about people who love you.

Ofcourse not. But the least you can do is acknowledge that they do.

 

I don't understand how you could really do that.

 

for example im one of the heretics who hates the lotus, and if I choose to be blind and still hate her after everything you have said, how could you convince me not to be blind?

 

the threat of execution doesn't work as there is currently no way to fully kill someone. i suppose bribing might work but I could also choose to keep the bribes and not change my ways.

 

and just to make it clear im not against you in this post.

 

 

im more curios of the  way you plan to convert people to your side  rather then being mad at you for being a loyal supporter of the lotus.

That's actually the difficult part. We(Grizzly and I) will continue to stand for the Lotus, facing the ones that stand against her.

The part of 'making them see' is not entirely up to us. We will do what is required for them to see that the Lotus is not evil. Prying open the euelids of someone who keep them shut tight is always unsuccessful.

 

I am getting really tired of the Role Playing subforum leaking into General Discussion. I'll just say it right here; stop. 

 

I could go on and on about how "making them see" is pathetic because you can't force someone into believing something when at heart they truly don't believe but I won't. Why? I realize this is not a role playing thread and that would only call for major derailment, that's why.

Sorry, I guess I got a bit carried way. But agreed, nonetheless. I wasn't really planning to 'make them see' by means of force. I'm not forcing anything on anyone. Placing the seeds of truth is often enough. But some people's eyes are blackened, they will never see. I don't appreciate people dwelling in ignorance, but if they donot listen, I will leave them be.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Institute-Marksman

[Agentcheese]

 

That's actually the difficult part. We(Grizzly and I) will continue to stand for the Lotus, facing the ones that stand against her.

The part of 'making them see' is not entirely up to us. We will do what is required for them to see that the Lotus is not evil. Prying open the euelids of someone who keep them shut tight is always unsuccessful.

 

I agree that it is a super difficult thing to do. its the reason why It wouldn't work if I tried to do the opposite  and convince people that the lotus is evil.

 

 also letting everything be and not giving a crap is way more fun and easier to do for me.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

Ofcourse not. But the least you can do is acknowledge that do

Meh. I don't see why. Love may affect her decisions so I'd rather not trust her completely because she can make mistakes (like her infertility ;) Especially since I don't care about fellow Tenno.

As far ws I'm concerned she's mission control. A Misa to my Light.

[_Chaser]

one moment guys, before more scrubs start to scream their loyalty to lotus, look here:

 

1) orokin created Tenno to defend themselves against sentients,

 

2) one of the sentients, namely Natah confuse Tenno and make them go rogue, convincing them to destroy Orokin

 

3) tenno are divided by the ones who are loyal to their creators and wear IZVARA syandana in form of human cut out (worn by tenno choosen to protect Orokin Concil)

and

those tenno who were tricked by Natah into destroying their masters, they wear NELUMBO in form of lotus cut out ( to honor the lotus )

 

4) the stalker is actully one of the tenno who was on the side of orokin

 

"Some have walked these desolate worlds while you have slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day.

The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums. A royal salute to the honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over. I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent. They were waiting. They were poised. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped.

 

When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever.

 

Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloging your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent."

 

now, tell me what a tool you are for considering Natah or yourself "good guys",

 

 

the moment we will be able to side with stalker, i will do my very best to invade and kill off as many of natah followers as possible and make your experience as miserable as it can be in a total DarkWraith fashion.

 

♫ I got my red eye orb, and i'm ready to roll, with my rapier, lightning +5

♫ I got the darkwood ring, and the hornet ring, and i'm wearing, the mask of the child 

 

♫ it's _&_

 

props for those who got the game refference and bonus props for those who got the song refference

Edited August 3, 2015 by -Solid_Snake

[Institute-Marksman]

 

one moment guys, before more scrubs start to scream their loyalty to lotus, look here:

 

1) orokin created Tenno to defend themselves against sentients,

 

2) one of the sentients, namely Natah confuse Tenno and make them go rogue, convincing them to destroy Orokin

 

3) tenno are divided by the ones who are loyal to their creators and wear IZVARA syandana in form of human cut out (worn by tenno choosen to protect Orokin Concil)

and

those tenno who were tricked by Natah into destroying their masters, they wear NELUMBO in form of lotus cut out ( to honor the lotus )

 

4) the stalker is actully one of the tenno who was on the side of orokin

 

"Some have walked these desolate worlds while you have slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day.

The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums. A royal salute to the honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over. I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent. They were waiting. They were poised. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped.

 

When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever.

 

Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloging your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent."

 

now, tell me what a tool you are for considering Natah or yourself "good guys",

 

 

the moment we will be able to side with stalker, i will do my very best to invade and kill off as many of natah followers as possible and make your experience as miserable as it can be in a total DarkWraith fashion.

 

♫ I got my red eye orb, and i'm ready to roll, with my rapier, lightning +5

♫ I got the darkwood ring, and the hornet ring, and i'm wearing, the mask of the child 

 

♫ it's _&_

 

props for those who got the game refference and bonus props for those who got the song refference

 

Could you, perhaps, prove that all your points are valid? (don't bother lecturing me on an Entries, I've read those)

The Lotus would have killed us, had she obeyed orders. But like us, she disobeyed. We(Lotus Loyalists) chose what felt right. Yet Meddlers like you continue to deform the truth only for personal gain. You have no purpose but greed. You will be food for the Infested, nothing more.

The Orokin were greedy. Like you, they only sought personal gain. THEY CREATED THE GRINEER SOLELY SO THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORK. They didn't create the Tenno for defense, they created us to wipe out a foe that was about to overwhem them! Just because they couldn't do it themselves.

The Orokin were weak. And GODS, must be STRONG!

Edited August 3, 2015 by Institute-Marksman

[Kaotyke]

This thread.... is just full of conspiracies, baseless hate/distrust/whatever, lovers, moms, sons/daughers and almost nothing concrete.

 

I will just go with what the DEVs said: "Lotus is benevolent towards the Tenno."

I will just go against the "We do everything Lotus says like obidient slaves" with: A Favor to Darvo, Ties that Bind and the recent Natah Quest that we do without her knowing/orders and follow Teshin's.

 

 

edit: typos

Edited August 3, 2015 by Kao-Snake

[Z3ROWOLFHD]

Lol all these people complaining about wanting to be rid of the Lotus when she was ordered to kill us but she didn't and put us to sleep and awoke us.

 

The Tenno race wouldn't be a thing if it weren't for her.

 

Also, she's Warframes main role model/marketing lead material. We aren't killing her, and we aren't getting rid of her any time soon.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

-angry snip-

Have you ever played Halo 2? That's where 90% of our anti-heresy quotes come from. I'm just having a bit of fun.

 

 

-generic snip-

 

3) tenno are divided by the ones who are loyal to their creators and wear IZVARA syandana in form of human cut out (worn by tenno choosen to protect Orokin Concil)

and

those tenno who were tricked by Natah into destroying their masters, they wear NELUMBO in form of lotus cut out ( to honor the lotus )

 

4) the stalker is actully one of the tenno who was on the side of orokin

 

-codex snip-

 

the moment we will be able to side with stalker, i will do my very best to invade and kill off as many of natah followers as possible and make your experience as miserable as it can be in a total DarkWraith fashion.

 

-musical snip-

Let me point out what's wrong with that theory:

 

1.) or as I should say: 3.) Yeah, no, if that were the case either way, Lotus' Tenno won.

 

4.) Stalker is not a Tenno.

 

The heretics are a smaller faction, you will be quelled without incident. 

[Kaisty]

This thread.... is just full of conspiracies, baseless hate/distrust/whatever, lovers, moms, sons/daughers and almost nothing concrete.

 

I will just go with what the DEVs said: "Lotus is benevolent towards the Tenno."

I will just go against the "We do everything Lotus says like obidient slaves" with: A Favor to Darvo, Ties that Bind and the recent Natah Quest that we do without her knowing/orders and follow Teshin's.

 

 

edit: typos

And like I keep saying like a broken record, DE can say that the Tenno and Lotus are the "good guys" all they want because those are the only missions they give us to do. Give us a mission to choose to either save a colony or doom it for shiny loot, and see how many stay "good"? Make a mission where somebody finally cures the Grineer of their problem, but the downside it drives them to rebel against the empire. Then have Lotus send us in to wipe them out for "balance" sake, while somebody else offers us a deal to protect the cure instead. Until DE decides to add more missions that will pull more at the players collective heart strings or at their need for shiny things, we won't be getting off this "Rollercoaster of goodness" any time soon.

 

Why do you think there are a nice amount of games made where they offer different branches down the same path without always having the protagonist being "Super Awesome Mary Sue Good"? People get tired of seeing that in games, and after a while it slowly saps your amount of caring for pixelated characters and just makes you want to waste them.

 

And yes for the majority of the game, we follow what Lotus wants. There is rarely a "You know Lotus, I don't want to slaughter grineer today. I want to practice my violin instead"  moment in the game because the game is based all around two things: killing mobs and grinding for new things to kill mobs. As for those missions, only one involved doing something Lotus didn't want us to do while the other two shows that Lotus has us on a short leash so long as we don't mess with her plans.

[Kaotyke]

And like I keep saying like a broken record, DE can say that the Tenno and Lotus are the "good guys" all they want because those are the only missions they give us to do. Give us a mission to choose to either save a colony or doom it for shiny loot, and see how many stay "good"? Make a mission where somebody finally cures the Grineer of their problem, but the downside it drives them to rebel against the empire. Then have Lotus send us in to wipe them out for "balance" sake, while somebody else offers us a deal to protect the cure instead. Until DE decides to add more missions that will pull more at the players collective heart strings or at their need for shiny things, we won't be getting off this "Rollercoaster of goodness" any time soon.

 

Why do you think there are a nice amount of games made where they offer different branches down the same path without always having the protagonist being "Super Awesome Mary Sue Good"? People get tired of seeing that in games, and after a while it slowly saps your amount of caring for pixelated characters and just makes you want to waste them.

 

And yes for the majority of the game, we follow what Lotus wants. There is rarely a "You know Lotus, I don't want to slaughter grineer today. I want to practice my violin instead"  moment in the game because the game is based all around two things: killing mobs and grinding for new things to kill mobs. As for those missions, only one involved doing something Lotus didn't want us to do while the other two shows that Lotus has us on a short leash so long as we don't mess with her plans.

And for that to happen, DE must gives us more Lore Missions.

 

But the problem here is: As an Online only game, we dont have a "Single Player", an "individual choice" where we can affect the course of our own history, its based on what the majority wants. Look at Tubemen, I wanted Alad not to get the cure he still got it from those that supported him, the only difference is that I got a different message from him in the end. We will have to wait and see what DE will change with PS4 where Nef won.

 

If we wanted to split from Lotus, it would probably become a vote game, where if the majority wishes to stay, even those that want to go will be forced to stay. Even so, there's the fact of who would we turn to? From a Lore standpoint we cant ally with the Corpus or Grineer, they are factions that are going against our code and would betray us at a moments notice.

 

Maybe the Syndicates would be a good idea, but then DE would have to do a lot of voice acting to change the Mission Control to them and they are just minor players compared to the Corpus and Grineer, and there's the resources Lotus can give us, not the ones we farm, but Intel. We dont know enough of the Syndicates to know how vast and advanced each of their networks are, we know Lotus' cover the whole system and she can hack into  any place and intercept all relevant messages for the Tactical Alerts, Quests and Events.

 

We dont have any other option at the moment but to follow Lotus. Distrust her if you want, you may have your reasons, but so far she is the only viable option we have on who to follow.

Even if we go alone, there is the: How do we know where to attack? The nodes we have are gameplay mechanics, but from Lore standpoint they are places Lotus found good resources (Survival/Excavation), or a VIP that has vital intel (Capture), where to get vital intel (Interception/Spy/Mobile Defence), where a cryopod is (Defence), a great enemy force is gathering (Exterminate), where enemeis are massing a great deal of resources (Sabotage), where civilians or allies were captured (Rescue) or a target of great importance is located (Assassination).

 

DE hasnt given us any other choice but to place our trust on Lotus, that might change, but for now, its all we can do.

[greatmin]

 

one moment guys, before more scrubs start to scream their loyalty to lotus, look here:

 

1) orokin created Tenno to defend themselves against sentients,

 

2) one of the sentients, namely Natah confuse Tenno and make them go rogue, convincing them to destroy Orokin

 

3) tenno are divided by the ones who are loyal to their creators and wear IZVARA syandana in form of human cut out (worn by tenno choosen to protect Orokin Concil)

and

those tenno who were tricked by Natah into destroying their masters, they wear NELUMBO in form of lotus cut out ( to honor the lotus )

 

4) the stalker is actully one of the tenno who was on the side of orokin

 

"Some have walked these desolate worlds while you have slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day.

The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums. A royal salute to the honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over. I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent. They were waiting. They were poised. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped.

 

When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever.

 

Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloging your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent."

 

now, tell me what a tool you are for considering Natah or yourself "good guys",

 

 

the moment we will be able to side with stalker, i will do my very best to invade and kill off as many of natah followers as possible and make your experience as miserable as it can be in a total DarkWraith fashion.

 

♫ I got my red eye orb, and i'm ready to roll, with my rapier, lightning +5

♫ I got the darkwood ring, and the hornet ring, and i'm wearing, the mask of the child 

 

♫ it's _&_

 

props for those who got the game refference and bonus props for those who got the song refference

 

and Lotus is pretty much Darksun Gwyndolin, the resemblance is striking

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg559/ThatArrowPerson/DarkSun.jpg~original

[Truth99]

When is the next quest going to be deployed? U18? or closer?

[Institute-Marksman]

-merciful snip-

 

The heretics are a smaller faction, you will be quelled without incident. 

Donot underestimate a fierce resolve. But most of all, donot underestimate feelings of betrayal.

 

[greatmin]

Natah is dead. She is now known as the Lotus, and she is no longer part of an army. She willingly gave up being a Sentient to be here. With us. She spared us, while she was ordered to kill us. That just shows her compassion for us.

Why do you Meddlers persist so long after your own defeat? Oh I know: because 'one can only ever achieve as much as their intellect allows'.

So the reasons slaves was spared in by old Americans was to show compassion? No, if the Lotus had the upper hand and instead of killing the Tenno she used them as slaves to do her errands. If she was the caring mother then she would have said, don't go into battle :). It is also easier to corrupt and brainwash people that have been traumatised, like the Tenno that was both physically and mentally distorted by the void. She should have 1. Sent them to a psychiatrist 2. Give them a quiet life and rehab. Even if she is doing all this out of love and caring, she is not particular good at it. I see the problem though, the game would not have been an action game if all you did was playing as the Tenno in a peaceful daycare center lol. Until there is more lore in game that favors the Lotus, she is technically a bad mommy lol :)

[Institute-Marksman]

So the reasons slaves was spared in by old Americans was to show compassion? No, if the Lotus had the upper hand and instead of killing the Tenno she used them as slaves to do her errands. If she was the caring mother then she would have said, don't go into battle :). It is also easier to corrupt and brainwash people that have been traumatised, like the Tenno that was both physically and mentally distorted by the void. She should have 1. Sent them to a psychiatrist 2. Give them a quiet life and rehab. Even if she is doing all this out of love and caring, she is not particular good at it. I see the problem though, the game would not have been an action game if all you did was playing as the Tenno in a peaceful daycare center lol. Until there is more lore in game that favors the Lotus, she is technically a bad mommy lol :)

She maynot be the best mom ever, but she's the only person that sincerely seems to care about us. She doesnot send us into battle. It's entirely up to you what missions you do, and when you do them. Besides, you don't put a soldier in daycare. That's not where a soldier feels comfortable.

Your opinion on what she should have done are irrelevant. She saw an opportunity, and took it. She doesn't use us a slaves. She makes us do what we feel comfortable doing: killing. And for a righteous cause.

[nefrai]

I have no desire to have anyone but Lotus talking me through missions, and like it was mentioned earlier, no one else is going to act out that many lines, lol. Although, I have to admit that having DE_Skree talking me through missions would be pretty darn entertaining and hilarious :P

 

As for the debates of Lotus being good or evil, that's all just fan-fic. Lotus is Lotus...she was meant to be a tutorial/help system, I don't think DE really had any thought into her aside from that when she was created. I supposed they could eventually create a deeper story around her, but I can't see them ever making their tutorial person the ''bad guy". But meh, I'm just here to shoot whatever is in front of me. Or stab. As my good buddy Ash would say: "Good? Bad? I'm the one with the gun".

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

-misunderstood snip-

 

Your history of America is not up to par...

 

Tenno were not used as slaves, we are warriors. Lotus does care, she was quite sad when 'remembering' Mirage's death, she was worried sick in Vor's quest, she is relieved when we escape or kill the G3. You don't send people that were raised, and bred for war to a psychiatrist, they don't settle down, we only know killing, because war, war never changes. That's why Natah's final objective was to kill the Tenno, if there's no war, then there is no need for super weapons, the Orokin probably would have killed us too, or imprisoned us, and ran more experiments until another great war started. She's a better mommy than any of the Orokin ever could have hoped to be.

[Altey]

Your opinion on what she should have done are irrelevant. She saw an opportunity, and took it. She doesn't use us a slaves. She makes us do what we feel comfortable doing: killing. And for a righteous cause.

Not everybody wants to follow "righteos cause", some don't want to follow any cause.

[SinReplica]

 

You can come to your own conclusions.

[ASH_PRIME]

Speak for yourself!   Me and my VeilBros loves us some Lotus!

#YummyMummy

[GhostLacuna]

people and their inability to understand a world that is not white/black........

 

The world of warframe is more grey and for that i love the work DE has done. 

 

I cant stand the mostly american black white morality and its simplistic view of morality as a whole. 

 

You can use more then one emotion at a time you know. 

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

I cant stand the mostly american black white morality and its simplistic view of morality as a whole. 

 

What the hell are you talking about?

[Shad0wWatcher]

The Lotus is not who you think she is.

First thing that came to mind when i saw that was "IT'S A TRAP!"

[GhostLacuna]

Many american works of literature, movies and games have a very simplistic black and white view of morality. 

 

that is good guys vs bad guys with no amount of gradient between them.  

 

The good guys are always pure and the bad guys are always evil to the core. 

 

Its a cheesy one dimensional clutch that degrades storytelling in my opinion. 

 

Just as characters in many american stories be it in books, movies or in games seems unable to handle more then one emotion at a time. 

 

A character can only ever love or hate a sibling or parent etc. 

 

Some of the best storytelling has been done within worlds with grey morality or works that take a more diverse look at morality and expand on it beyond the simple black/white morality viewpoint. 

 

DE has done a good job fleshing out their world with the lore. It has given the world of Warframe some much needed depth. 

Edited August 4, 2015 by GhostLacuna