Naftal Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 dread devastates too and it does it faster. i hit minimum of 10k on a >1 second charge to a body shot without cpx4 and thats counting i am not only wasting potential damage mod space on viral and speed trigger im also wasting a spot on shred to get punch thru im sorry but your point is moot. Why put punch through on bows which already have innate punch through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword_Symphony Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Because its called having a curve in the power of weapons. Not every weapon needs to be Dread/Soma/Boltor Prime. Sometimes I wanna $&*^ around on the star chart with weapons I enjoy that don't murderize everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 dread devastates too and it does it faster. i hit minimum of 10k on a >1 second charge to a body shot without cpx4 and thats counting i am not only wasting potential damage mod space on viral and speed trigger im also wasting a spot on shred to get punch thru im sorry but your point is moot. There is so much wrong here I don't know where to start. Ok I do- bows have innate punchthrough, if you're putting punchthrough on a bow... there's not really any hope for ya. Also, Dread has a faster draw time and higher base damage, but it only hits stuff in a line, my daikyu hits them in crowds because of the procs, contains some CC due to the electric, and overall does WAY more damage than the dread, it's just DoT rather than instant. It's a matter of playstyle. My point is not moot- it's perfectly viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 With respect, you often had a small delay between fully drawing and actually firing the paris prime where as you fired the diakyu almost immediately after it was fully drawn so this ends up skewing the comparison. This suggests that the diakyu would fall further behind the paris prime if it the PP was fired at its full potential rate of charge and fire. At any rate I agree with what youre saying about raising the base damage and making it all slash. Well either slash or an element (better yet the chroma treatment where color picks base element) I'll redo the Paris Prime test. The main thing between testing Crits vs Status with Paris Prime/Daikyu....is that they yield a similar total number of Arrows used to kill the same high level enemy. Paris would be more practical in actual game play because of faster charge rate and ability to quick-fire. Miter video (Slash + Corrosive Build) it fairs better than Daikyu....being similar status weapon, with less base damage and inability to crit -under most conditions(Arcane Avenger and teammate Mutalist Quanta orbs) People seem to think that a Status Bow doesn't work, but it could work extremely well. Slash only, no Impact and no Puncture, would give players a non-RNG Slash based bow and a 100% status build (Split-chamver and 2 Dual-stat event mods) would allow a Viral-Slash build to fair better than Corrosive for almost all enemies. -Only way Daikyu would have been a worse bow is if it had been a status Impact bow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srlhama Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think only puncture Daikyu would fit the design of the bow better, it is already Puncture and changing to slash will not happen. And we already have the king using slash(yes I am talking about our lord an savior Dread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 bows have innate punchthrough, if you're putting punchthrough on a bow... there's not really any hope for ya. Last I checked Bows only have inherent punch through on full draw. Some folks intend to quick fire for some of the time. Also, some folks have found hat by extended the punch through they can hit even more targets in a line per full draw shot. Besides...Just because a weapon has a good attribute doesn't mean a player may not want to bring that attribute to a higher level. Also, Dread has a faster draw time and higher base damage, but it only hits stuff in a line, my daikyu hits them in crowds because of the procs, contains some CC due to the electric, and overall does WAY more damage than the dread, it's just DoT rather than instant. It's a matter of playstyle. My point is not moot- it's perfectly viable. Yes, IF and WHEN you actually proc whatever element you have equipped it is great. The problem is that with slash, puncture, and impact damage also on the bow so even though it has 100 percent proc chance it still procs something other than the element more often than not. 1 in 4 chance to proc the element is not that great on a slow firing weapon.. If it ALWAYS proced the element then it would be a whole other story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimonoki_Ryuji Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Compared to other bows, like Dread and Paris P, Daikyu is very underwhelming. For the time and resources it takes to build the thing, it's not worth it, honestly. For such a low crit potential, the damage is too low. The charge time is long. Bows are the same as snipers - they're made to one shot stuff, so the status chance is pointless. Daikyu's on par with Paris and Cernos, nothing much to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 With respect, you often had a small delay between fully drawing and actually firing the paris prime where as you fired the diakyu almost immediately after it was fully drawn so this ends up skewing the comparison. This suggests that the diakyu would fall further behind the paris prime if it the PP was fired at its full potential rate of charge and fire. At any rate I agree with what youre saying about raising the base damage and making it all slash. Well either slash or an element (better yet the chroma treatment where color picks base element) Redid Paris Prime several times..... I suck at Charged bows....probably why I prefer click for full charge auto-shot Daikyu... Easier to always shoot full-charge when you can only shoot full charge. Paris prime -Arson v2 Paris Prime - Arson v3 Paris Prime- Arson v4 Paris Prime - Arson v5 Last one is almost the perfect ideal TTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Redid Paris Prime several times..... I suck at Charged bows....probably why I prefer click for full charge auto-shot Daikyu... Easier to always shoot full-charge when you can only shoot full charge. Paris prime -Arson v2 Paris Prime - Arson v3 Paris Prime- Arson v4 Paris Prime - Arson v5 Last one is almost the perfect ideal TTK. Much respect for doing it and redoing it until you got to top speed. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Last I checked Bows only have inherent punch through on full draw. Some folks intend to quick fire for some of the time. Also, some folks have found hat by extended the punch through they can hit even more targets in a line per full draw shot. They have it on not-full draw as well. I also believe the punchthrough is "infinite" (so to speak. More accurately it will keep going through things forever until it hits something that is more than a certain thickness). I have so far managed to line up around 10 chargers in simulacrum and kill all in 1 shot with dread, so I don't get why everyone says it only has a certain amount of punchthrough (this is with all bows btw, not just dread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 They have it on not-full draw as well. I also believe the punchthrough is "infinite" (so to speak. More accurately it will keep going through things forever until it hits something that is more than a certain thickness). I have so far managed to line up around 10 chargers in simulacrum and kill all in 1 shot with dread, so I don't get why everyone says it only has a certain amount of punchthrough (this is with all bows btw, not just dread). Bolts and Arrows have "Pinning" which is like a controlled ragdoll that works like Punch-through on death.(Boltor, Bolto, Attica, Balllistica and variants have pinned ragdoll) Bows do have punch-through for environment objects (Doors) which is affected by punch-through mods.... Usually players do not tend to shoot through solid objects with a Bow. Basically the pinned ragdoll is infinite 'punch-through' for enemies but not environment punch-through. Actual Punch-through is for environmental obstacles, but also counts the 'pinned' enemies for towards limit. (10 enemies is beyond 3m limit..so you won't kill 10 enemies and enemy behind door) Hope that makes sense.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 They have it on not-full draw as well. I also believe the punchthrough is "infinite" (so to speak. More accurately it will keep going through things forever until it hits something that is more than a certain thickness). I have so far managed to line up around 10 chargers in simulacrum and kill all in 1 shot with dread, so I don't get why everyone says it only has a certain amount of punchthrough (this is with all bows btw, not just dread). Pardon me, I did not mean to say full charge shots..simply to say charge shots. Which is still not quick fire shots. How thick the thing they can punch through is effected by additional punch through mods is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Bolts and Arrows have "Pinning" which is like a controlled ragdoll that works like Punch-through on death.(Boltor, Bolto, Attica, Balllistica and variants have pinned ragdoll) Bows do have punch-through for environment objects (Doors) which is affected by punch-through mods.... Usually players do not tend to shoot through solid objects with a Bow. Basically the pinned ragdoll is infinite 'punch-through' for enemies but not environment punch-through. Actual Punch-through is for environmental obstacles, but also counts the 'pinned' enemies for towards limit. (10 enemies is beyond 3m limit..so you won't kill 10 enemies and enemy behind door) Hope that makes sense.. It does make sense. Thank you for detailed info. Pardon me, I did not mean to say full charge shots..simply to say charge shots. Which is still not quick fire shots. How thick the thing they can punch through is effected by additional punch through mods is it not? They can punch through from any draw- even if you just click and release immediately. Another user replied to me as well with a detailed explanation on how bow punchthrough works, it's quite interesting you should go look at that too as it's a great explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Usually players do not tend to shoot through solid objects with a Bow. yeah I'm weird. Shooting through objects is one of the main reasons I will bring a bow. They can punch through from any draw- even if you just click and release immediately. I'm still unconvinced that bows have actual punch through on no charge. (as in go through objects) Ive been taking a break for several weeks though..so maybe something changed from what I remember. Another user replied to me as well with a detailed explanation on how bow punchthrough works, it's quite interesting you should go look at that too as it's a great explanation. Indeed it was a great post that is why I gave it my plus 1. Edited July 29, 2015 by Ronyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3EK3R Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 yeah I'm weird. Shooting through objects is one of the main reasons I will bring a bow. I'm still unconvinced that bows have actual punch through on no charge. (as in go through objects) Ive been taking a break for several weeks though..so maybe something changed from what I remember. Indeed it was a great post that is why I gave it my plus 1. I have punch through on all of my weapons. Can't live without it. Especially on weapons like the Soma Prime :3 Bows do not require punch through mods in my opinion. Their innate is good enough to pierce doors and walls. Keep in mind, that the arc takes a drastic hit when you pierce an object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I have punch through on all of my weapons. Can't live without it. Especially on weapons like the Soma Prime :3 Bows do not require punch through mods in my opinion. Their innate is good enough to pierce doors and walls. Keep in mind, that the arc takes a drastic hit when you pierce an object. Just so it's clear I am not suggesting that bows require punch through mods so much as I am saying that if some players want to use it... its not like it doesn't do something. Two questions: In your experience do they punch through even when uncharged? In your experience do punch through mods increase which objects it can go through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I have punch through on all of my weapons. Can't live without it. Especially on weapons like the Soma Prime :3 Bows do not require punch through mods in my opinion. Their innate is good enough to pierce doors and walls. Keep in mind, that the arc takes a drastic hit when you pierce an object. Drastic environment deflection indeed All non-hit scan weapons have this environment offset with Punch-through Just so it's clear I am not suggesting that bows require punch through mods so much as I am saying that if some players want to use it... its not like it doesn't do something. Two questions: In your experience do they punch through even when uncharged? In your experience do punch through mods increase which objects it can go through? From my experience with No punch-through mods Bows have Zero environmental punch-through on quick/spam/uncharged shots. Daikyu and other bows with Charged shots have innate punch-through that is increased with Mods. Adding Punch-through mods with Charged shots allows for several enemies to be killed when shooting through thick Corpus crate or Grinner shipping crate......subject to aim offset from projectile environment punch-through aiming penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 What is this daikyu you speek of? Oh... i remember, you mean the bow of 3000 mastery points. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Inb4.... Dragon Daikyu 100% slash only .175 longer draw charge time 15% more base slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)SciMan Says Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I love the Daikyu personally, I've polarized it two or three times now. I also have the Dread and Paris Prime and honestly I don't think they are as good. I actually have every bow in the game, and after playtesting all of them I found the Daikyu to be the one I always did the most damage with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Cos building Blast Viral on it is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I love the Daikyu personally, I've polarized it two or three times now. I also have the Dread and Paris Prime and honestly I don't think they are as good. I actually have every bow in the game, and after playtesting all of them I found the Daikyu to be the one I always did the most damage with. If you always headshot then Daikyuu will fall behind due to inconsistent crits and a lack of red crits. You can make up for this partially with Heat and Toxin procs but the high base Puncture damage is kind of an insult to its status potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 If you always headshot then Daikyuu will fall behind due to inconsistent crits and a lack of red crits. You can make up for this partially with Heat and Toxin procs but the high base Puncture damage is kind of an insult to its status potential. I tend to have more consistent damage with Daikyu, but only because....I'm bad at making full charge shots with Dread/Paris Prime....I enjoy the Daikyu click and it auto-releases(fires) at full charge Also because it is easier to use with Max Reflex Guard..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Also because it is easier to use with Max Reflex Guard..... I wasn't even thinking about that; good insight. I wonder how Reflex Guard is gonna perform after U17's blocking changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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