Damn You Stunlock Man! (Or: Please Stop Giving Enemies Cc)

[MJ12]

Like this post if you want to permanently ban DE's enemy designer from using stun mechanics ever again.

 

Because I really feel like this is exactly what needs to be done given the Scorpion. Whoever does the enemies should seriously consider stunlock mechanics in a game wherein you want to have the players moving around and being aggressive instead of hiding behind a corner with their gun out shooting things like this was Call of Honor: Medal of Duty: Brothers in Arms.

 

In fact, I think DE should kickstarter 'keep stunlock man away from the concept of cc abilities'. Stretch goals would include:

 

1. Hire an intern to make sure Stunlock Man never gets to put another cheap counterless stunlock enemy in the game

 

2. The intern will be given a volleyball painted to look like a Roller

 

3. If Stunlock Man ever makes an enemy with the concept 'disables the player character' the intern will hit Stunlock Man in the head with the volleyball until he trashes the enemy or removes the disable.

 

4. The intern would be given a camera headset to film this on livestream.

 

5. The top payers would be allowed to smack Stunlock Man with the Roller Volleyball themselves.

 

I bet this would make you guys a ton of money very fast. And I'm all for you guys making money. Also, fix the other crappy stunlock enemies. Unless, of course, this is because you guys are going to be significantly revising knockdown and stagger mechanics to be faster and less frustrating in general, in which case I almost forgive you, but I still think the Volleyball of Damocles needs to be implemented. Right now.

 

[iotimoline]

I support this product and/or service.

[Bitfly]

Yea no reason to make the game any hard. How are we supposed to rush with so many scorpions around?

/endsarcasm Sure they are annoying but not enough to ruin my day? If anything, it's just as fun as annoying

[Kiteless]

There's a difference between proper difficulty, and having an enemy that can stun lock you from across the map, through walls, with no need for line of sight, and without any possibility of actually dodging.

[Exhack]

I disagree. As a counter-offer, we should give Chargers the ability to coil up in pillbug-like rollers that get Rhino Skin while balled up and can stagger instantly and repeatedly if you touch them in this mode. Which they can activate for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, and the AI favors these nuChargers staggering (hee) the use their roller mode for optimal loss of player agency.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Exhack

[MJ12]

Yea no reason to make the game any hard. How are we supposed to rush with so many scorpions around?

/endsarcasm Sure they are annoying but not enough to ruin my day? If anything, it's just as fun as annoying

 

"Sure they are annoying" is basically a death knell to any enemy design in a good game. Especially since I'm betting this is going to impact rushers exactly nil while screwing solo players and everyone else. Ranged, uncounterable CC is absolutely awful. There were suggestions like 'allow players to shoot while grounded' which would work (or, if all else fails just give them an equivalent power to Golem's pull, which doesn't disable you for extended periods).

 

Scorpions make the game hard only if you play as intended. If you run past all the enemies or if you hide behind a box all day and play whackamole they don't make the game harder. Enemies which make the game harder when you play the way the game is meant to while not impacting the difficulty of playing it in ways that the devs don't want you to are awful.

[SkyllianBlitz]

Had a merry go round of 4 Scorpions pulling me in sequence. Girls couldn't keep their hands of me. Excalibur be the pimpest frame around.

[crow-k]

waa

[SilentCynic]

Volleyball of Damocles is now a thing.

[Namacyst]

And i just wondered when the first whining Post about the SM Pirates shows up...

[Kyte]

At the very least let us shoot while the Scorpion's reeling you in. I mean holy S#&$ your arms are still free.

[MJ12]

And i just wondered when the first whining Post about the SM Pirates shows up...

 

Don't you have something way better to do than to defend awful game mechanics? Grind for that Thunderbolt mod you still haven't gotten, maybe?

[Kyte]

Oh man every time people mention Thunderbolt I feel like gloating 'cause I got it by sheer chance while doing Xini for XP.

[Furyion]

qq rushing exploiters

[MJ12]

qq rushing exploiters

 

Okay, in your strange alternate universe, these enemies primarily impact rushers and people who play methodically never are affected by their agency removal mechanics. Meanwhile, in reality, people who rush and avoid all enemies never get hit and people who don't get stunlocked into No Fun Zone. So yeah, 'qq rushing exploiters' is apt. Those guys are crying tears of joy whenever a new crappy enemy that encourages rushing comes out. Like Scorpions.

 

You know why some people rush? Because fighting enemies isn't fun. You know why that happens? Because we get s**tty enemies like this. And let's just pretend Solo doesn't exist at all and people might not have intermittent internet connections or anything. Yep.

Edited May 24, 2013 by MJ12

[Smoke39]

I already avoid infested mission as much as possible because they're so horribly obnoxious.  I was very disappointed when I found that the Grineer were given such an obnoxious new enemy. ]:

 

I doubt DE will remove the scorpion outright, since they seem completely married to these miserable stun mechanics, but I hope they'll at least give their whip attack a windup and/or travel time so you at least have a chance to avoid it.

[Ringli]

Haven't played since the new update and I tried Xini first thing in the morning... wow, just wow. Being stunlocked while one of those Torch guys roasted my shields away was not really such a pleasant experience. And I thought the Rollers were annoying enough...

 

Aww well, screw this I'm going Corpus :D

[FlanShark]

Speaking as a rushing-inclined guy who doesn't do it in public games, the scorpions are absolutely no problem to rushers and a total utter bore to fight if I'm in a pub.

Here's my take on the design issues of the scorpions:

Compared to, say, a smoker in Left4Dead, or even the old nervos, a teammate getting harpooned happens instantly, meaning players cannot intercede to stop it other than by killing the npc while it targets someone else, and usually the player is released quickly enough anyway that you don't have any sort of after-the-fact team reaction.

It's not even like a roller or roller-pack where a teammate will have to hit the tricky targets because they can be so impossible to hit for the targetted player; once you've stood up from your harpooning, the scorpion might as well be a sawman. No health, no threat, no brain.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

+1 for Volleyball of Damocles.

[fratous]

I was about to post this myself, im glad to see im not the only one.

 

I am writing this as a player that mostly plays solo.

 

DE, please look into other ways to mess with a player than fully taking away control from them with next to little counterplay. I touched about this way back in a suggestions thread you had on the design council section that has since then been closed. Visual and Audio impairments can be used, hell make an enemy have an ability that makes me hallucinate a fake world would be better than the obsession with just a hard stun over and over again.

 

Stop completly taking control away from me with cheap mechanics such as a Instantly casted hitscan hook.

 

I am mostly fine with knockbacks/staggers that can be handeled with strategy and positioning like say the leapers knockdown having a charge up time, but this one is just too much.

 

I have three big questions that I want to ask DE about this new enemy and their obsession with hard stuns

 

1) Why cant a ninja at minimum use their pistol weapon when they are being dragged by a grappling hook from the foot?

 

2) Why on earth can i not even react in some way to avoid the grappling hook?  Seriously, if you are going to punish me by stunning the player for at least a 2 second duration which can be the difference of full hp to dead, at least allow me to have an effective means of avoiding it.  The ability should not be hitscan. As an example, Ninja gaiden games have enemy abilities that will literally one shot you, however the games mechanics gives you means to counterplay/avoid it.  The grappling hook has NO counterplay because it is instant.

 

3) For being a space ninja, i feel more like some newbie boy scout with just how often and easily my warframe is staggered/knocked over. Why can't i recover by doing a side roll or backflip at a key frame like i can do in other games such as Ninja Gaiden/Devil May Cry/ etc? Yes granted, warframe doesn't want to make the melee combat system overly complex to match those games, but this would just help so much with how often i lose control entirely due to 'stun locks' while at the same time adding a new skill to the game.

 

Before someone mentions it, Handspring mod is not a solution to a game mechanic that only brings frustation and has no skill cap for the players to try and learn from.

 

 

TLDR: If you are going to keep pouring all of these ways for enemies to punish the players so harshly as to completly take away control from them, then at least offer some tools/mechanics/methods to the players to avoid them. Roll/backflip recovery at a key frame would go a long way.

[KhanCipher]

i ran into the new scorpions once. i came around a corner (since i couldn't oh... see around a corner) got knocked down, then the exact second i got back up... that wasn't very fun (then again finding 2 heavy gunners right in front of a elevator door while you're on the elevator isn't much fun either.

[Madotsuki]

I would support this kickstarter without hesitation.

Also, I would just like to add that the Scorpion is arguably even WORSE, than the ROLLERS. I didn't think it was possible, but there we go. Why? First off, with Rollers they actually have to touch you to stagger you. Despite their speed and manuevarability, they can still be dodged, either by rolling, wall runs, or even hiding on a box. Scorpions however, CANNOT BE DODGED. Once they initiate the grappling hook they cannot be dodged no matter what you do. They don't need to touch you to do it, they can hit you from mid-range, possibly even LONG range. They don't just stagger, they outright knock you down AND drag you to them, resulting in a much longer recovery time compared to Rollers. Not to mention if there's more than one, they can easily chain drag you for huge amounts of time while everyone else simply mows you down. Hell they don't even make a unique noise to warn you, or have any kind of telegraph that tells you they're going to use the grappling hook. Even the Roller has that unique grinding noise when one is nearby. The Scorpion? NOPE, suddenly you're flat on the ground being dragged with no way to retaliate at all. Aside from the fact that they are easier to hit, which is balanced out by the fact they can snag you at mid-long range, they are worse than Rollers in EVERY WAY, to the point of making Grineer missions nigh unplayable.

WTF, DE's enemy design team? I mean, you made Lech Kril one of the best boss fights in the game with Update 8, you've clearly shown you are CAPABLE of being competent! WHY DID YOU MAKE THE SCORPION??

[HailCreation]

There's nothing wrong with this.Just pay more attention to your surroundings. 

[Tsukinoki]

@HailCreation

That can be hard to do when you pop around a corner and are instantly being dragged around by a group of scorpions while being shot to pieces.

Are you suggesting that people somehow become psychic/able to tell the future?

There is nothing you can do to predict a scorpion around the corner. And if there is more than one there with a heavy machine gunner waiting...well you're in for a world of hurt and nothing you can do about it.

[Kyte]

I got tagged when going into one of those storage rooms where you're supposed to be safe so long as nobody's chasing you.

They get you anywhere, beyond mere awareness.