Parkour 2.0 Is Absolutely Breaking My Heart In Disappointment. And I'll Tell You Why.

[Onite]

Let me put it this way...

 

Now I can run into the room, immediately rocket into the air shoot enemies as a fly over them and finish with a stylish jump attack dive straight on the heads of the surivors.

 

Could I do that before? No.

 

Hence it's an improvement for me!

 

And I don't find it slower at all. The control makes up for the speed as copter will just fling you into the wall where you lose precious seconds with your face pressed against whatever it is you slammed into. With some thinking and skill I can clear rooms much faster and I can kill stuf while doing it. I used to copter, with daggers, with tipedo and I never found it fun. I did it automatically when there was a gap (aka my stamina drained)... but I didn't think about it, I didn't enjoy it... now I have fun.

You Could do that before. What you do is use something like the harkonar, slide jump and immediantly melee while aiming upwards. You set up your trajectory and then fire at enemies. I did it very often. Or use to.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Onite

[wilc0x]

I hated coptering with a burning passion. It limited me to specific melee weapons if was running a slow frame like Frost or Saryn when in a fast moving party.

 

Coptering was never necessary to keep up with the party.  I was running with Gram and Scindo and it wasn't ever an issue.  You just had to sprint -> slide -> jump -> slide, which performed a forward somersault into a slide and made you move almost as fast as the copterers, except without all the extra momentum getting you stuck in corners.

Loss of the forward somersault is the real loss in this new parkour system.  Coptering was silly.  Forward somersault was the way to move in warframe.

[Oculus92]

Finally someone who understands me.
Yesterday i jumped upon the whole map, where i stood without being able to come down again. And i did it WITHOUT any abilities of zephyr, just by doublejumping like mario and ctrl-space. Wtf? Is this the purpose of the game, that everyone can do everything? Why not bring the ability to fly and teleport wherever you want? Would just be consequent.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Oculus92

[ChaosMarine]

I can't comprehend how people can complain about the previous parkour being removed.

Because it was better and faster. That's why.

[aavvdkdk]

Just a friendly tip: The default binding for crouch sucks. I hurt my pinky a lot too back when I started playing. And yes it is DE's fault for having the controls set up that way  by default. However you can easily fix this issue by rebinding crouch to a mouse thumb button. So for instance when I want to slide attack I hold shift with my left ring finger and press my mouse left thumb button with my right thumb, then hit my extra LMB that's set to quick melee, but you can still use E.

Just changing crouch from hold to toggle was enough for me. Either way, try out different solutions and use whatever feels the best. That's why you can rebind the keys =) 

 

The thing I have most problems with is the fact that you have to zoom while gliding. I tried gliding while holding a datamass and there wasn't any zoom, it felt much better for me that way. I still want to test parkour 2.0 some more before judging it. Right now, I still prefer the old system (well, wouldn't have any problem with coptering/air melee getting removed, but I miss my butt-scoot), but that might change in a week. 

[Vorpal_Ocelot]

Ever since u17 I've noticed a few things that really break the flow of gameplay. I find my abilities not working "on the fly" like they used to. I notice dropping out of sprint a lot more. I noticed more "inertia flings" which just need to be completely taken out of the game.

 

The bottom line is "Ninjas" need two things: Speed and Control. One does no good without the other; and they are the yin and yang of Ninjas. That being said; here are the serious issues, starting with my biggest most troublesome issue:

 

--------------------------------"Inertia Flings"-------------------------

Keep in mind this entire section is about NOTHING else besides the "dodge" button rolling, frontflips and backhand springs. (Direction+Dodge moves and Aim+Direction+Dodge moves ONLY)

 

U17 has added more "Inertia" flings thanever. Before you would only experience them with wallrunning glitches happened and you got tossed randomly. Now all dodge movement has been given "Inertia flings" that make your dodges sporadic and incalculable; it just launches you out of the way sometimes a far distance and sometimes a short distance.

 

We need the dodges to be controlled and a set distance. Like they were before U17. Before, I knew exactly where my dodges would set me; so I always knew if I was going to dodge and land on an edge of a platform or if I was going to get off that platform; there was no "guessing" "inertia flings" but instead it was skill and knowledge of the move and it's set distance. Now I find myself trying to flip over one enemy; and I "fling" over 6 enemies some random distance. Infact, I can spam frontflip (dodge+jump) and gain such an inertia boost I can flip through entire maps faster than anything can run; it's like the new way to "copter" through a mission and it has the "inertia fling" that coptering had and was complained about.

 

We need "control" and we need to be able to know without a doubt the distance of our moves to gain full function from these moves. I no longer feel "In control" of my moves; rather I'm forced to endure their "flings" and instead of "knowing" where I am going to land; I just have to assume I'll land in that direction, somewhere, eventually.

 

If the dodge function could be returned back to it's unbroken, controlled state that worked perfect (who ever had a problem with the old dodge system? You were in full control, you knew your moves distances and it was fast enough to use anytime to get out of the way)

 

Think about it: The "Inertia Fling" speed boost that made everyone "copter" was taken away from slide+melee and given to every direction+dodge move? That's a weird thing to do isn't it?

 

No control, no reward. That is true for so many things in life. What good is a system of movement that lacks control? Especially when before the dodge system had no issues; it didn't fling you this way and that, it was controlled, fast and reliable. Keep in mind this entire section is about NOTHING else besides the "dodge" button rolling, frontflips and back handsprings.

 

---------------------------------Aimglide----------------------

 

Although I can see the why players might like this function; and it's "fun" to glide across the air if your high in the air; it is *not* fun to glide a few feet off the ground anytime you aim while falling or jumping a short distance.

 

It's very immersion breaking for me to slow motion **every time** I aim in the air. What can be done? How can we make this gain more control and functionality? 

 

A few options I have thought of are:

 

   --"distance above ground" limitation--

          You won't aimglide if you jump off the ground and aim; however if your high enough above the ground then you 

          will! Let's say your at the top of a doublejump; than your high enough.

   --Double-Tap Aim-- 

           Double tapping aim quickly in the air will send you into the aimglide; assuming you hold down the aim on the  

           second tap.

   --Per-Weapon Activation--

           Similar to the new "Show Weapon Holstered" option in Appearance; You can enable/disable the Aimglide option 

           per weapon from the Arsenal. Choose what weapons you want to aimglide with; and which ones you don't want

           it with.

 

-------------------------"Coptering" is fixed, thank you; but.....--------------------------

 

You fixed coptering; without a doubt; You gave it a set-distance; and that is what it needed. However, why did you take the "inertia" away from jump+attack melee? You *do* fling your swords forward, kick your legs back and try to boost forward; yet now it barely goes forward.... yet you get a boost of speed by rolling? That doesn't quite make too much sense as far as control. Honestly; rolling never gives anybody a burst of speed; with the exception of sonic (the hedgehog) and before rolling was also a set distance and worked great. Now it's random (I won't continue to repeat this; it's all stated above)

 

However: Jump+melee attack deserves a set distance of movement forward; before it was too much though and now it is non-existent. 

 

Giving moves a "set distance" and removing all "inertia flings" is what the game needs to give players full control of their speed. These set distances need to not give up speed; just allow the player to "KNOW" where they will end up landing. They shouldn't have to "slow down" or "speed up and recover" from moves; they need moves that all flow into one speed, and moves that they can get used to the distances so there is no guess work.

 

***Ninjas don't frontflip and wonder where they will land. They know where they land; because they can flip about the same distance every time. Ninjas have control; and can make their moves "flow" together at the same speed. They don't stumble and recover after a flip or a roll; they just continue with more movement.***

 

---------------------------------and finally, Wallhopping and Wall Latching--------------------

 

I realize the direction you were going with this. You wanted to completely open up the walls for traversing. A good goal. However; now I don't even really feel like I'm using the environment; I don't "flip and land" at the top of a climb anymore. I can't scale up a wall and backflip over an enemies head anymore either. Moves that I've seen ninjas do in moves since i was a kid; and it felt great to do! In fact; moves like that drew me straight into the warframe universe and I *made* time to do them because they felt so awesome. I would just hope for an enemy to follow me close enough for me to run up a wall, flip over his head and rain shurikens, err I mean kunai down on his head.

 

Now? Now I just scale up any wall I want in a sort of rabid hopping manner; and when I get to a ledge I just keep trying to hop more til I realize "Oh wow; there is nothing here to hop on" and a land; pretty boring landing I might add.

 

Maybe we can work some "fixes" in here to give us back some of our Ninja feeling moves.

 

"Wall Latching" is crippled by the speed of "aiming" and makes it just a real drag to look around while using. Although the latching in general is an amazing feature and I do like it; something just simply must be done!

 

Options?

 

-How about two sensitivity bars in Options, One for mouse speed, one for mouse speed while aiming?

-How about Wall Latch "activates" by aiming; and then you can let go of aim and it'll still hold until you jump off?

-Wall Latch being infinite is also an awesome idea; sometimes I feel like it's way too short; I know there are mods to increase it; but with infinite "stamina" why make us so limited?

-Wall"hopping" gains more interaction with the environment. When your at the top of a ledge; you flip and land not just take another leap and look weird then land.

-"Wall Latching" gets "dodge" moves. Example: while Wall Latched; Back+dodge would backflip you off the wall. Side+Dodge would make you "run" a short distance sideways along the roll (Same set distance as the old rolls when they had a set distance; perhaps?)

 

-------------------------------Lastly, Abilities are now not as Responsive--------------

 

I've noticed while under any "inertia fling" effects; I cannot activate my abilities. It'll just ignore the command. Sometimes when I'm just moving normal it'll ignore ability commands also; and I have to try to hit my ability twice before it takes the command. I don't know what is causing the delay or lack of response; but it has to do with the new system for sure. I've now had to start a habit of "standing still" a moment THEN casting an ability; just to make sure it works the first time. 

 

As I said; Ninjas need control; and ninjas need speed. It's the yin and yang of everything they do. You can't have a bunch of speed; getting flung this way and that and you can't have uncontrolled movements that sometimes work, sometimes fling you far, sometimes don't fling you far, and sometimes just don't respond. That poor ninja would be the deadest ninja ever. 

 

That being said; we need our abilities to work "on the fly" and the first time!! We need to make sure they are responsive like they were before U17. There can be no "Oh I hit it but it didn't work and I had to try again".

 

Also: I've noticed sprinting canceling a lot more often; and it's really getting to me.

 

 

-------------------------Thank you for reading!! Please post any and all feedback. Please realize this isn't slander against you or anyone; and if you like how Parkour 2.0 how it is; feel free to mention your likes. I like a lot introduced; however there is some "game breaking" things that need to be addressed.------------------------------

 

------------------------------------------------------------Almost forget: Vaulting over Obstacles!---------------------------------------------

 

----Also, please bring back vaulting over obstacles. It had the option in options to turn it off for any who didn't like it. In fact the option is still there. Yet now those who *did* like it can't even use it now. I won't like it brought back, with no "roll" landing or anything weird, just a simple vault over and land. If you fall a distance from vaulting over a ledge; then autoroll; otherwise just vault and continue walking.----------

 

[Crescendium]

The problem I have with parkour 2.0 is that I was promised less carpel tunnel. It may just be the "muscle memory" thing the devs warned us to give some time to, but I can't imagine  shift->ctrl+space->shift will ever become easier to hit for me than shift+ctrl+e was. Especially since I keep returning to caps lock rather than shift.

That's why i bind my crouch/slide to "v" instead of ctrl :)

[Onite]

 

Absolutely. 200%.

[Edgarhighman]

TENNO HORSEY TIME.. BECAUSE we're ANIMALS MAN... this galloping is stupid. No more air melee is stupid. Parkour 2.0 is more glitchy than coptering ever was. I've locked up my rolling/melee/quick melee (unusable) a handful of times now.

 

You get zero vertical gain from double jump... and minimal horizontal gain from bullet jump. Very annoying. I cant get around like I used to... I can now "glitchkour 2.0" all over the place, but air melee shouldn't have been removed... Bullet jump is rediculous. Front flip is sadly gone too!! I used to front flip all the time across rooms... now its replaced with double jump... you go like 10 feet... woop de doo.

[Culaio]

 

So you're saying that you oppose being able to aim where this maneuver sends you? Would you rather have no fine control over it or something? Are you aiming at enemies every second in a level or something? I know for me there are many spots in missions where there are no enemies to aim at. These are the times when using bullet jump to travel faster make the most sense and you can concentrate on using it to the greatest effect. Second, you can't shoot during a bullet jump, so why does it matter if you're aiming at an enemy when you perform it? Its purpose is to get you places that you can chain into things like the wall latch or aim glide during which you shoot enemies, not the bullet jump itself.

 

If you want a jump that isn't tied to your aim, that's what regular and double jump are for.

 

Thats not what I meant, you missunderstood me, I would actually be fine if bullet jump send me exactly where I am aiming, but the problem is that it doesnt, most of the time when I am trying to bullet jump directly in front of me I am send slightly upward. when in combat I dont really have time to spend time to make sure I am aiming exactly so I would be send forward, bullet jump demands far to be precision for movement that should be easy.

[Kyotra]

Daily reminder that DE doesn't play their own game.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Man, you PC doomsayers are scaring me a bit...I "hear" the conviction of truth in the passion you bring, perceived or not.

Can I make a confession?

I $&@)ing love coptering and covering space by combining it into jumps.

If it was a happy accident in coding, it was one of the best, brand-defining accidents EVER.

I want DE to find a way to keep it, be it through stance mods or simple combo-mechanics.

Dear Lotus...

[-InV-igo95862]

Man, you PC doomsayers are scaring me a bit...I "hear" the conviction of truth in the passion you bring, perceived or not.

Can I make a confession?

I $&@)ing love coptering and covering space by combining it into jumps.

If it was a happy accident in coding, it was one of the best, brand-defining accidents EVER.

I want DE to find a way to keep it, be it through stance mods or simple combo-mechanics.

Dear Lotus...

 

Can you press on controller Crouch + Jump -> Jump -> Aim -> Crouch + Crouch -> Crouch while holding forward. Thats how you move fastest now

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by igo95862

[Edontsu]

it should be breaking your hands!

[-CMF-crazylexi]

I like parkour 2.0 but i miss wallrunning.

 

Bullet jumping is cool, but I hate double jumping. Jumping and then bullet jumping while still in the air is an interesting move....

 

I think the whole meleeing while in the air to gain more air was more realistic than the double jump...

 

and i think wallrunning looked a lot cooler than the bunny jumping, and i didnt really consider it broken or anything. I do find the bunny hop to be more controllable...

[Similon]

For the most part, I'm really rather fond of Parkour 2.0. The only bit of it I have any major problem with is the hopping along walls. 

 

1) It looks a bit naff, no more actually interacting with things, especially obvious when going vertically to land on a higher platform. You jump up past it a bit and try to fall backwards? Especially with all the things that are at set heights (scratch marks) that are now just meaningless.

 

2) It often doesn't seem to quite work properly. Yes, it does take a bit of getting used to. Playing Grineer spy missions, the vault where you can either raise 2 trams, or take the wall running corridor (with lasers).

Used to be simply wait till the lasers are in the right place, then Run and Jump and Run and Jump and climb. Now, speed seems really inconsistent, You can only hop properly on that one thin strip, fine when you were running on a rail, but consistently landing on it is finicky. Because the top edge (unpathable) sticks out, you keep hitting it and falling. When you hop to the left to switch sides for the second half, I nearly always end up standing on top somehow... Which is fine, I guess. But you're no longer wall running round a fancy path, you're falling off because the map isn't built for the new system, or your standing on surfaces you're not meant to stand on. All it needs is smoothing over so you can run along the entire surface and it'd be fine. Also, the amount of times I've been trying to run along that path, and my frames just decided to jump up rather than carry on forwards.

 

A lot of the wall traversal seems to be figuring out how to work around things, some of which are problems caused by the fact the tiles weren't designed to work this way. Other than that, it's just that everything is a bit fiddly. It's not just a case of muscle memory.

 

Want to run up through that handy hole above into those vents? By ready to aim glide, or you'll bounce off the ceiling.

Or onto a specific part of those grineer multi-tiered walkways? You'll either overshoot or bounce around until you're so disorientated you've forgotten what you were trying to do.

 

I dunno, with time I'll probably get used to it and be able to navigate properly again. And for the big open areas, it genuinely is really nice to consistently perform the same regardless of which melee weapon you've bought! But in a lot of cases it's a lot more work to achieve something that used to be simple.

 

Also, If you want to bullet jump long distances, you have to look up.

In the middle of combat.

Stop looking at the enemy and stare at the ceiling instead.

[Sci_Ant]

For everyone who hates the new system, I hope this list of tips and tricks / tutorial videos will help since there is actually a lot of potential for new movement combos to be unlocked as we experiment more and more with the system > https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501727-tutorial-parkour-20-tips-and-tricks-tutorial-videos-collection/

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I don't really understand some people argue how the parkour 2.0 actually gave us "less" control of the movements... Maybe I'm trying to use the mechanics that I don't really find silly and stupid. I just use them and it's more fun than the previous movement system. It's not that complicated.

 

Coptering haters said : But parkour 2.0 will give us more control!

 

More control? No way, 99% of time when I try to bullet jump forward I just hit the roof of the tile; 99% of things I do toggles off my sprint; bunny hopping still gets me stuck when climbing most walls; and in general, parkour 2.0 is soooo damn slow.

 

I wish they could keep both systems, coptering and parkour 2.0, so everyone would be happy.

 

You're trying to split this discussion into a war between "copter haters" and "copter lovers". I see so many people are being emotional in this thread, and it's not helping at all. This kind of attitude makes the forums more "shouting in the face" kind of place. Pretty sad tbh. I use bullet jump when I want to get to higher places, so it would be wiser to not stand under a ceiling, no?

 

It's pretty simple. The way you move is more fluid and controlled. "Controlled" as in more free mid-air. Coptering was extremely one sided and does only one thing good. Getting you to places in a ridiculous speed. It wasn't absolutely needed but people apparently loved it god knows why. It was a bad game design to let that stay for so long.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Improving the game is improving the game. Everyone wins.

If that worked out as you say, it would be a perfect world. Not gonna happen with games played by hundreds of thousands with varying ideas and opinions. It's a cliche but people seem to forget all the time. You cannot possibly please everyone with any kind of update. If this update failed to please you, it could be that the direction Warframe is going isn't the way you would like to, as well as some folks in this forums.

 

It's not absolutely horrendous as some people like to suggest. Although I agree wall hopping stuff looks silly, I feel as if this update made the game a totally different game now. The gameplay atmosphere is totally different. I hope DE does improve some features that you seem to find horrible since I'm an acceptable person when it comes to gameplay changes. Unless the game is absolutely unplayable or limiting me in gameplay, I don't mind it. I actually enjoy it right now.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Because it was better and faster. That's why.

And that word "better" is 100% objective and exactly the reason for people arguing over it. Coptering was NOT better.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Daily reminder that DE doesn't play their own game.

 

... You should realiize there are multiple DE employees like Glen who tests stuffs in the game. Where did you get this info and why are people agreeing? It's just silly

[Kyotra]

... You should realiize there are multiple DE employees like Glen who tests stuffs in the game. Where did you get this info and why are people agreeing? It's just silly

 

The developers play the test builds, and only on a limited basis. DE has stated this multiple times during devstreams. They do not play from our standpoint, with the public build, having to grind everything on a daily basis. Glen is possibly the only exception (and the only person who really understands this game).

 

No, Rebecca does not count, she is the Community Manager, not a developer.

[Cosmosframe]

I used to feel like an artillery shell given human form. Firing myself through the level until I saw enemies, diving into their midst, exploding out again in a sudden frenzy of heavy ordnance and whipsnap melee strikes, before once again becoming projectile and hurtling off in search of my next fight.

 

Nothing was more glorious than covering 7 or 8 tiles of an excavation map to reach a downed teammate in the nick of time, impacting the mob that had killed him in a magnificent cessation of speed and matching onset of cathartic violence, stepping cockily out of the impact debris cloud and tangle of ragdolled bodies to revive them. 

 

Now, I am a party balloon.

 

Party balloons have terrific freedom of movement. They do not, however, hurtle. They do not lash. They do not impact. 

 

I do not want to carry on playing a party balloon.

looooooooooool!! my thoughts exactly, it is f ed up being a party balloon

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

You can still do slide jump but its double jump foward and you have to chain it after bullet jump.

 

Sigh please test out all the features before you complain OP.

 

1.) First you can bullet jump while vertical wall running to make it faster.

 

2.) The movement is actually more fast paced and fluid than spam air melee and spam coptering why because now it rewards you if you are able to perform or execute the right parkour movements at the right time cause there is "MOMENTUM"

 

3.) You can still air melee air copter just try doing it after you do your bullet jump thank me later.

 

4.) You can still technically front flip but instead of holding ctrl+ slide you just have to double press space for double jump forward you can even chain this with either bullet jump or aim glide.

 

5.) If you want to "Go Fast better practice as this new movement systems might be easy to do but its hard to master but once you get the hang of it you'll breeze through level"

 

6.) Learn the new META slide + transition to forward bullet jump+ jump over enemies you rush through + double jump + aim glide and melee attack at the end of it.

 

7.)You can parkour off enemies and even off other players.

 

8.)Wall jumping is better now as if you time it right it launches you with enough momentum and propulsion to add to bullet jump speed trajectory

 

9.) There are mods to increase bullet jump speed and add elemental damage

 

10.) you can reload use powers and even back flip side flip and front flip off aim or melee gliding you can even block it while doing it.

 

All in all the new parkour 2.0 system is the best system currently for the game as it provides so many more mobility options with fluid parkour maneuvers you just have to ADAPT and MASTER them cause its not as easy as press E to win anymore. I honestly want to thank the Dev team for the hardwork and great job in executing parkour 2.0 I was honestly surprised at how good it was they proved me wrong because I had so many doubts about the new system but in the end they pulled of a amazing comeback with this new update. I didn't even do the tutorial yet I was able to intuitively execute the new movement manuvers it took some time to get used to it though. So I suggest learn and master the new system first.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

The developers play the test builds, and only on a limited basis. DE has stated this multiple times during devstreams. They do not play from our standpoint, with the public build, having to grind everything on a daily basis. Glen is possibly the only exception (and the only person who really understands this game).

 

No, Rebecca does not count, she is the Community Manager, not a developer.

If you don't give credit to the one who goes through forums and gathers questions, and gives idea to the devs, I don't know what to say. A lot of the devs get ideas from the ones play the game, and you can't discredit Rebecca on that just because she's a community manager. She's part of DE, since you said DE doesn't play the game.