Sniper Weapons Will Never Be A Viable Option- Regardless Of How They Are Buffed

[TwiceDead]

The idea of Exploding Headshots has been floating around for awhile, and I find it pretty great.

You can already do this to some extent with the Lanka, just go with high proc-chance and Gas/Electric. 

[Carl_Bar]

What would that solve? He proved that snipers are actually viable, and are in fact quite effective weaponry, whereas the OP's claim is that they are not viable, but he's confusing viable with optimal/best/OP, as is common on these forums. 

 

The part where it proves there not. At the end of the day ease of use is an important consideration, and eventually a limiter on performance.

 

That said their would be a way to make snipers much more viable. Remove all punch through mods barring the melee thrown ones and and a much larger magnitude sniper specific one. When rifles struggle to kill more than a few people at once and snipers can obliterate an entire column with a well placed shot they get a lot more useful. But then they're competing with bows for the same thing.So unless you treat bows as a form of sniper balance wise you could have a real issue...

[croxeye]

The biggest issue I have with snipers currently is the fact that they don't have (enough) innate punch through. (if they have it at all)

 

If they did I think that would solve a lot of peoples current complaints about them, as snipers are meant to be weapons where a single shot not only should be able to kill in about one hit, but it should have enough force to pierce through the enemy and hit stuff behind them as well.

[TwiceDead]

The part where it proves there not. At the end of the day ease of use is an important consideration, and eventually a limiter on performance.

 

That said their would be a way to make snipers much more viable. Remove all punch through mods barring the melee thrown ones and and a much larger magnitude sniper specific one. When rifles struggle to kill more than a few people at once and snipers can obliterate an entire column with a well placed shot they get a lot more useful. But then they're competing with bows for the same thing.So unless you treat bows as a form of sniper balance wise you could have a real issue...

 

Try the Lanka. Thing can obliterate entire columns with a well-placed shot. 

[Jamescell]

Try the Lanka. Thing can obliterate entire columns with a well-placed shot. 

Try any rifle with punch through. Those things can obliterate entire columns with spray and pray.  

[Jamescell]

What would that solve? He proved that snipers are actually viable, and are in fact quite effective weaponry, whereas the OP's claim is that they are not viable, but he's confusing viable with optimal/best/OP, as is common on these forums. 

I changed the wording of my post to more effectively convey my message. 

[KaraBerry]

With the map sizes, the fast-paced gameplay, and the ability to AOE nuke anything in the room, Snipers do in fact lose out on DPS compared to, say, shotguns or assault rifles. They're perfectly viable, of course, and if you use them like assault rifles instead of DMR's, then you can get amazing kill counts. (Some guy posted images of his damage output and kill count earlier; I can bet you anything he wasn't sitting in a far-off spot taking down high priority targets like a Sniper should.)

 

But snipers, when used correctly, end up not doing very much in the way of DPS, end up not killing nearly as many enemies, and are generally less effective all around when compared to, say, the Latron Prime. The problem is the minmaxing, not the damage itself.

 

Another problem is the community's general attitude towards people who aren't playing to end everything as quickly and easily/lazily as possible. I've been harassed, as a Trinity, for not killing anything. I was sitting across the tile, taking down dudes that the other player missed. I would say I saved the pod quite a bit of health, a number of times, in only five waves, yet the other player claimed I was AFKing. They wouldn't leave me alone, so I muted them. They then got on a mule account and harassed me again, then muted me. Presumably so I couldn't mute them first? I'm not quite sure what it accomplished, but it was... aggravating to say the least.

 

----------

 

However, OP seems to not have a problem with snipers specifically, but instead has a problem with Warframe's gameplay. (And even S#&$-talks the entire playerbase for enjoying the gameplay. Yep. Great way to get positive feedback and healthy discussion. Let's insult everyone we can.)

OP's main problem seems to be that each enemy is too easy to kill, that Warframe's gameplay is to simple and easy. My response to this will always be this; You don't ever HAVE to bring high-level gear to a mission. You think it's too easy to finish 20 mins on a T1 Survival? Drop you fully-ranked gear, all of it, including your frame, and go to a T4. Take yourself a rank 5-10 Trinity, a nice Mk1 Braton, maybe a Skana, and go play T4. I gaurantee you it won't be too easy. And if it is, take weaker gear and go to a tougher mission. The main problem of Player Power vs Enemy Power is that we go armed to the teeth and overpowered for anything we do; no mission should be easy. If it is, you're bringing too powerful a loadout.

 

The other thing is that OP is comparing two extremely different games, catering to two different crowds. That's a no-no on all levels. Especially when you have such an obvious bias towards one. I know I personally dislike Farcry as a series, but love Warframe; if I started comparing them, obviously I'd bash the crap out of Farcry. I mean, I could start right now, but that'd be unhelpful.

 

(And stop with the insults. It'll make you more amiable, more open. "players who seek to satisfy their god-complex fetishes" is essentially insulting anyone who enjoys this game, whether they actually have the... 'fetish' you claim or not.)

[TwiceDead]

Try any rifle with punch through. Those things can obliterate entire columns with spray and pray.  

So what's your point exactly? Yes, rifle's spraying down a lane with punch-through is going to obliterate a column, Opticor and Lanka can do the exact same thing (although Opticor needs Shred). Do you want to remove punch-through entirely from rifles or something and make this exclusive to Sniper Rifles? 

And yes, I count the Opticor as a Sniper Rifle as it's probably the best sniper-weapon in the game right now. You don't need excessive zoom to snipe targets from afar. 

[Davoodoo]

With how DE solves things Snipers might end up with 2k damage just to balance things out.

All of this while our favorite soma prime with 12 dmg, already oneshots enemies.

 

Increasing overkill dmg wont solve a thing, you need to nerf to balance not buff.

[TwiceDead]

All of this while our favorite soma prime with 12 dmg, already oneshots enemies.

 

Increasing overkill dmg wont solve a thing, you need to nerf to balance not buff.

 

BLASPHEMY!

(Although I agree.)

[Raven_Face]

The problem with sniper weapons is that enemies will not show a fitting reaction to them when being hit by their projectiles. There needs to be a damage multiplier to compliment the punch-through they have. If rifles and sniper rifles both shoot at a heavy enemy, but the enemy displays the same amount of flinch, aka, NONE, then there's no value to sniper rifles.

 

Another issue is ammo rarity. If ammo rarity doesn't come with increased firepower as tradeback, there's just no incentive to use them.

[Jamescell]

@KaraOgata 

 

I'm so glad I actually took the time to write this a few weeks ago:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/484317-refuting-the-argument-of-improper-play-self-regulation-opposed-to-legitimate-balance/

[TwiceDead]

@KaraOgata 

 

I'm so glad I actually took the time to write this a few weeks ago:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/484317-refuting-the-argument-of-improper-play-self-regulation-opposed-to-legitimate-balance/

Good Read. 

Also re-read your post, and I got the message now, I agree.

[NocturneOfSolace]

Yea yea, whatever you say bro, I'm going to be over here still enjoying my vectis

[Naftal]

I don't really get this. Snipers would be just as viable as bows are if they had more damage. They currently work just the same as long as you're in low enough content to oneshot with both.

[Temfist]

Snipers should get bonus damage/crit on unalerted hits. That way characters with stealth approaches would highly benefit from using silenced sniper rifles such as Ash, Loki or anyone with a stealth pet and a patient approach.

 

Essentially, it'd be like "stealth kills" for guns. Perhaps for it to count it would need to be done from at least a certain distance, so that the distance is easier to achieve with long range weapons. Mid-range weapons would be worse for stealth kills, and Shotguns would be incapable of "stealth kills" in the same regard, however they could then just make a shotgun version of the thing via "point blank" kills while stealthed. It'd be risky with shotguns cause if you bump into the target they know your there and you loose the bonus.

 

I dunno, I think something as simple as this is the first step at creating a reward system for using guns to their strong suits.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Temphis

[LtZefar]

All of this while our favorite soma prime with 12 dmg, already oneshots enemies.

 

Increasing overkill dmg wont solve a thing, you need to nerf to balance not buff.

 

Soma one shots low level enemies. Tigris can one shot enemies up to level 50 in void T3 or T4 from what I've seen.

 

But the only way to balance this out is to nerf the shotguns back down to where they where. Then give them a slight damage boost. Odds are DE are not going to do that.

Edited August 17, 2015 by LtZefar

[akira_him]

Nullifers kills every weapon with slow fire rate and small clip size

I wish snipers can ignore the nulllifer shiled damage cap, then they will have a place in the game

[Raven_Face]

Off topic but, Serration is 10-ranked while Point Blank is only 5-ranked.

 

How the hell can you say shotguns are overpowered? I question your logic on this game.

[Carl_Bar]

So what's your point exactly? Yes, rifle's spraying down a lane with punch-through is going to obliterate a column, Opticor and Lanka can do the exact same thing (although Opticor needs Shred). Do you want to remove punch-through entirely from rifles or something and make this exclusive to Sniper Rifles? 

 

What your replying to was posted in reply to a comment in reply to me saying that we'd have to remove punchthrough mods entierly from everything but snipers to make them truly work.

 

So basically, yes.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

What would that solve? He proved that snipers are actually viable, and are in fact quite effective weaponry, whereas the OP's claim is that they are not viable, but he's confusing viable with optimal/best/OP, as is common on these forums.

No idea with who he played but i will show him that they are not viable

Off topic but, Serration is 10-ranked while Point Blank is only 5-ranked.

How the hell can you say shotguns are overpowered? I question your logic on this game.

Primed point blank has 10 ranks

[IggySnow]

This sounds real dumb and unrealistic but wouldn't it be cool if there was a sniper frame who benefits from snipers kind of like Mesa? and some passives could be like head shots chain together within reason, head shots do more damage, stealth increases the amount of damage done, etc.

 

Like if you're a really good stealthy sniper and there is a hallway of enemies you could head shot the one in the front, then the bullet chains and goes to the next head, then the next, etc. Maybe based on how much damage is left in the bullet. or maybe its one of its abilities. maybe another ability is like, "expert aim" or something where when you right click to zoom in, if its over an enemy it will automatically point the reticule at its weak spot. another one could be like "stand your ground" or something where when you activate it you become stationary but your sniper shots have infinite punch through. then the last one could give you xray vision to a certain range so when your using "stand your ground you can see any enemy within like 50-70 meters(?) and shoot them without them even knowing where you are at all. That sounds super fun and all of the abilities kind of mesh together and work together too.

 

GOD DAMN I want this frame so bad now. DE should higher me.

[Temfist]

This sounds real dumb and unrealistic but wouldn't it be cool if there was a sniper frame who benefits from snipers kind of like Mesa? and some passives could be like head shots chain together within reason, head shots do more damage, stealth increases the amount of damage done, etc.

 

Like if you're a really good stealthy sniper and there is a hallway of enemies you could head shot the one in the front, then the bullet chains and goes to the next head, then the next, etc. Maybe based on how much damage is left in the bullet. or maybe its one of its abilities. maybe another ability is like, "expert aim" or something where when you right click to zoom in, if its over an enemy it will automatically point the reticule at its weak spot. another one could be like "stand your ground" or something where when you activate it you become stationary but your sniper shots have infinite punch through. then the last one could give you xray vision to a certain range so when your using "stand your ground you can see any enemy within like 50-70 meters(?) and shoot them without them even knowing where you are at all. That sounds super fun and all of the abilities kind of mesh together and work together too.

 

GOD DAMN I want this frame so bad now. DE should higher me.

They could just add some passives for snipers to Ash....I mean, that's what I would do. That said, your proposed idea may be conflicting with Sonar, but I like the concept. Maybe if they rework how Sonar works then both these could stack, but yeah, interesting thought for sure. It'd be way better then the way Sonar works for guns that can't even precision fire.

[5H4DE]

What about making sniper rifles ignore nulifier bubbles and arctic eximus globes ?

[IggySnow]

They could just add some passives for snipers to Ash....I mean, that's what I would do. That said, your proposed idea may be conflicting with Sonar, but I like the concept. Maybe if they rework how Sonar works then both these could stack, but yeah, interesting thought for sure. It'd be way better then the way Sonar works for guns that can't even precision fire.

I just think it would be awesome to have a frame that is all passive abilities with low drain/s that all work together in a way.

 

imagine activating all those passives at once and shooting a few greneer in the head and watch as every enemy in a 50m radius drops dead, but then you have no energy after like 10 seconds of using them all at the same time.

 

like activating expert aim so you get 100% head shot, seeing there is one in the room beside you, shooting it in the head, it chains to the next one in another room, bam! everyone's dead an no one saw a thing.