Iron Skin Needs To Be Buffed

[Tatsukko]

People need to stop saying this.

Chroma can buff alies in a number of ways with elemental ward and cc with some of them as well as effigy but is still a tank.

Valkyr can buff allies with warcry, also warcy slows enemies and paralys can stun lock but she is still a tank.

Frost can slow, freeze and knock enemies around and shred enemy armor...also a tank who can block damage in whole areas.

Heck, Trinity can heal the whole team and provvide unlimited enery to everyone but still works great as a tank.

So let's all stop acting like rhino is sooooo much more versitile than other tanks.

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously guys...frames are generally pretty versatile. There is no need to nerf everything he has into the ground just to make him more durable. 

I only said to "debuff" his other powers to keep others happy as I normally get people screaming about how his other powers are so good it warrants him being a bad tank. And as you said valkyr,chroma,trinity are far better than rhino for tanking yet keep there CC powers aswell.

 

I agree 100%

[MosiForLife]

I think Iron Skin should multiply his armor x5 or so, for a certain number of hits (maybe 100 or so, not sure). That would allow the ability to scale with mods.

True it would be nice but he would still need to be affected by power strength to make him good and up there with top tier frames 

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

A buff to his armor (we consoles don't have that yet) and iron skin multiplying his armor stat sounds like something I'd like to see with him. I think it would work well together with his ironclad charge augment, will make you feel like a juggernaut like he should be. 

 

EDIT: He doesn't really have a lot of damage skills, so prioritizing his skills to increase his armor sounds like what he SHOULD be specializing in. Stomp already provides good CC for him and he has Roar as a buff. All around would be a very good versatile frame.

Edited August 25, 2015 by (XB1)BAMMM Lightning

[MosiForLife]

people are being a bit ridiculous if you ask me.  yeah, iron skin is mostly useless once enemies get into the 40+ range, but so are ALL of the damage based powers in the game... 

 

the problem isnt so much with ironskin as it is with the games scaling. once you get past mid 40s there are a very limited number of things that are useful anymore.

 

but its been the same way since i started playing the game. i doubt it will ever change. they just spend their time releasing new MR garbage and making things more annoying. not trying to hate, but yeah, its just gotten old to me. every time i try to play the game any more i just quit after a couple missions again. 

No excal ulti can use raidial blind then can one shot anything in the game i went 65 mins with excal and my friend who was a trin on a t3 surival he would make me god mode with rage and quickthinking so it would leave me at 2 hp and him then he press 4 then for 24 secs i am god because of 99% damage reduction and i would go up to level 125 enemys with no sweat one shotting then with exalted blade 

[Tykune]

Increase Rhino's armor to 800 and rework iron skin to be better throughout all the game. The fact that valkyr has 600 armor and Rhino only has 190 is an absolutely sick joke. I mean, FFS.. Rhino looks and feels like he is heavier and more armored than Valkyr, and Valkyr doesn't even look like she has armor on. Absolutely stupid.

 

EDIT: No, lets make Rhino's armor 1000 and have ironskin mitigate 75% of all damage for 10 seconds, just to prove a point.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Tykune

[MosiForLife]

Increase Rhino's armor to 800 and rework iron skin to be better throughout all the game. The fact that valkyr has 600 armor and Rhino only has 190 is an absolutely sick joke. I mean, FFS.. Rhino looks and feels like he is heavier and more armored than Valkyr, and Valkyr doesn't even look like she has armor on. Absolutely stupid.

That is true rhino is Bulky and in the codex entry says he is a tank but valkyr is way better and can go God

[MosiForLife]

I Just had i idea for rhino stomp it does its cc but it reduces armour and give a puncture prof but when use roar it doesnt reduce armour but it does the damage how much armour it would reduct%powerstrength

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

I always felt maybe Iron Skill could buff his armor and give him a small amount of passive health and shield regen. Like enough to be tankier, but not enough so he is immortal.

[MosiForLife]

I think that mabye all the rhino augments should be in rhino alreadly 

[Ronyn]

I think that mabye all the rhino augments should be in rhino alreadly 

I'm leaning this way too. Most warframe powers are sort of multifaceted these days where rhino's arent.

Example: Rhino has to use the iron shrapnel augment to have iron skin push enemies away yet snowglobe recently gained the ability to push enemies away upon cast.

[Cytobel]

To interject an alternative point, I find Rhino to be painfully dull to play.  I think the problem isn't about Iron Skin (which, face it, is just an immunity to status secondary health pool on top of whatever he had, not tanky at all*).  It's about how his other moves do not carry the tank role or work together.

 

The stomp is great area CC, but of limited utility with the few enemies that actually last for 6 seconds of sustained fire.  The Roar is cool, but it doesn't attract attention from foes or add CC.  Rhino's Charge is...  well... sort of crap as it stands when compared to most any other 1 move.  An offensive reposition it is, but it could trigger a line of blast waves as he charges (you know, that thing where some runs at something) rather than this sliding lunge thing.  This could make multiple explosive knockdown procs in a line, granting good disruption potential.

 

To be honest, I don't like or loathe Iron Skin as it stands.  His other abilities need more love than it does, and proper reworks on those other abilities may make Iron Skin work without needing any buffs.  DE has nerfed this thing from a complete damage invulnerability for X seconds to it's current form due to rampant abuse.

 

Finally, DE has already made a point of hammering home the fact that this IS NOT a WoW-esqe ANYTHING.  Old MMO concepts for "Tank " do not and cannot stand up to LASER CANNONS.  Sometimes even the tank HAS to move or die.  I just hope Rhino gets a skills set that lets him work with the Iron Skin he has to truely fill the roll of tank.  Don't buff 1 move when 3 could use work.

 

 

 

*P.S., serious sarcasm.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Cytobel

[motorfirebox]

To interject an alternative point, I find Rhino to be painfully dull to play.  I think the problem isn't about Iron Skin (which, face it, is just an immunity to status secondary health pool on top of whatever he had, not tanky at all*).  It's about how his other moves do not carry the tank role or work together.

 

The stomp is great area CC, but of limited utility with the few enemies that actually last for 6 seconds of sustained fire.  The Roar is cool, but it doesn't attract attention from foes or add CC.  Rhino's Charge is...  well... sort of crap as it stands when compared to most any other 1 move.  An offensive reposition it is, but it could trigger a line of blast waves as he charges (you know, that thing where some runs at something) rather than this sliding lunge thing.  This could make multiple explosive knockdown procs in a line, granting good disruption potential.

 

To be honest, I don't like or loathe Iron Skin as it stands.  His other abilities need more love than it does, and proper reworks on those other abilities may make Iron Skin work without needing any buffs.  DE has nerfed this thing from a complete damage invulnerability for X seconds to it's current form due to rampant abuse.

 

Finally, DE has already made a point of hammering home the fact that this IS NOT a WoW-esqe ANYTHING.  Old MMO concepts for "Tank " do not and cannot stand up to LASER CANNONS.  Sometimes even the tank HAS to move or die.  I just hope Rhino gets a skills set that lets him work with the Iron Skin he has to truely fill the roll of tank.  Don't buff 1 move when 3 could use work.

 

 

 

*P.S., serious sarcasm.

Well... okay, but as others have pointed out, Rhino has to 'move or die' significantly more often than, say, Chroma does. Or even Mirage, depending on how you spec her. And Iron Skin is supposed to be his 'tanky' ability—despite your sarcasm, it really isn't all that great past 30m/wave 6 and basically a waste of energy past 50m/wave 10. After that, Rhino doesn't have to 'move or die' sometimes. He has to 'move or die' just as much as any other frame. Whereas, again, Chroma and Mirage (and some others, those two just come to mind first) remain much more resilient as the game progresses.

Edited August 25, 2015 by motorfirebox

[Thumper3]

I personally would even trade in the resistances to pulls, stuns, and the like to be able to take alot more damage overall. 

 

 

No.  Those communities are major, I love walking up to a Corrupted heavy Gunner and have her smash the floor and nothing happens.  I just smile and say "That was pretty....now let's try mine." and hit her with a Stomp.  LMAO

 

Seriously, defense against drag and knockdown are huge, they are not direct damage mitigation but are indirect as do not suffer the helplessness while enemies just pour lead into you.

 

 

 

 

 

Rhino's Charge is...  well... sort of crap as it stands when compared to most any other 1 move.  An offensive reposition it is, but it could trigger a line of blast waves as he charges (you know, that thing where some runs at something) rather than this sliding lunge thing.  This could make multiple explosive knockdown procs in a line, granting good disruption potential.

 

I like Rhino Charge more than Valkyr's #1, but granted I just started playing Valkyr last night.

 

I do like the idea of explosive proc's along the way though.

 

 

I know people seem against making Iron Skin damage reduction in percentage instead of hit point based but it's the ONLY way that the protection will scale into later levels while not utterly breaking low level use.

 

The simplest answer is often the best, DR starting at 99% and then everytime it is hit it loses say 2% until it is exhausted.  It should also either be Recastable, OR the augment from Iron Shrapnel should be standard allowing you to detonate it and then recast.

 

That simple fix would make IS have a purpose against tougher enemies, maintain the ability for lower level enemies to still be a threat, and go a long way to helping Rhino do his job.

[MosiForLife]

I tottaly agree

[SteaKnight-X]

If you may allow,

I would like to suggest a QoL change(something that would still keep core traits of the ability)

 

So here is my suggestion:

 

The ability is the same at it was before. Just change how the amount of your iron skin points(ferrite armor) is calculated.

Instead of having flat 400/600/800/1200 points

I would to change it to

Iron Skin points = (your armor)*2/3/4/6 

 

This way, strength mods would affect it as well as "steel fiber"

 

 

 

May be allow recasting?

 

 

 

The second suggestion is more of an idea im currently playing with

So, what if depleting parts of the of Iron Skin armor, would increase the density for the Iron skin points that are left.

Explanation:

You have 1200 Iron Skin points. If you reach 600 points(half you your max points), your skin density is doubled.

Which mean you need twice the amount of damage to take away the next point.

[HollowExistence]

Just limit Max damage that can be taken.

At max rank it could be like 2% of its durability

This will allow for tanking at high levels and low levels in a similar fashion.

Edited August 26, 2015 by HollowExistence

[motorfirebox]

What about just letting Rhino's armor apply damage reduction to his iron skin hp?

[SteaKnight-X]

What about just letting Rhino's armor apply damage reduction to his iron skin hp?

You get already ferrite armor.(It has its own dmg reduction traits)

 

 

I would suggest this.

Nothing crucial.... just some QoL change

 

 

 

So here is my suggestion:

 

The ability is the same at it was before. Just change how the amount of your iron skin points(ferrite armor) is calculated.

Instead of having flat 400/600/800/1200 points

I would to change it to

Iron Skin points = (your armor)*2/3/4/6 

 

This way, strength mods would affect it as well as "steel fiber"

 

 

 

May be allow recasting?

 

 

 

The second suggestion is more of an idea im currently playing with

So, what if depleting parts of the of Iron Skin armor, would increase the density for the Iron skin points that are left.

Explanation:

You have 1200 Iron Skin points. If you reach 600 points(half you your max points), your skin density is doubled.

Which mean you need twice the amount of damage to take away the next point.

 

[KnightCole]

You get already ferrite armor.(It has its own dmg reduction traits)

 

 

I would suggest this.

Nothing crucial.... just some QoL change

Well, your quote just gives it more hitpoints, doesnt make it tankier.  Right now, it doesnt matter if I have 1200 or 3000, I am finding that even at like 20-30minutes in survivals on like Ceres and stuff, the mobs are chewing right through all my armor/shields/health in just 1-3 shots. 

 

Hell, just did a nightmare alert on Arval Mars, it said 6-10...but it must have scaled.  They were blowing  through my Iron Skin in just a matter of seconds, earlier, did an alert, same spot, they literally killed me in 2 shots, through ironskin.....pop, out when ironskin and 400 health, pow, out went my other 480 health. 

 

What needs to happen, is if Rhino is going to be the tankiest of them all, is he needs ot be the tankiest of them all, no rivals in any way.  He needs innate damage reduction, Armor in general needs an overhaul and a buff I think, it means absolutely nothing.  But Rhino's armor should apply to IS, Shields and health.  He should start with like 350-500 armor, he should start with 200/200 health/shields at rank 0.  He should get a special kind of armor that has no vulnerabilities, so that, when he gets 1200 Ironskin, he gets 1200 ironskin.  In fact, maybe more, cuz his armor should apply to it.  Right now, my RHino P has 701 armor with a max Armored Agility and Steelfiber.  I guess thats like 60% dmg reduction or so to my health.  That would be fantastic to be on Ironskin/1280shields/880 health.  My ironskin would have one hellva time going out, then my shields would last alot longer then my health wouldnt be nommed on quite so bad in nightmare modes. 

 

Cuz if RHino is the tank, he needs to be the tank, in all modes, nightmare or otherwise.  His armor should be such that he can take a hit, even w/o shields and ironskin. 

[Tatsukko]

This is great feedback everyone thanks for the support!

[SteaKnight-X]

-snip

 

Some more hit point wouldn't be that bad. Rhino prime + steel fiber+ power strenght would be very strong

And being able to recast would save us a lot^^

 

 

What about the second suggestion then?

 

 

-snip-

 

The second suggestion is more of an idea im currently playing with

So, what if depleting parts of the of Iron Skin armor, would increase the density for the Iron skin points that are left.

Explanation:

You have 1200 Iron Skin points. If you reach 600 points(half you your max points), your skin density is doubled.

Which mean you need twice the amount of damage to take away the next point.

 

Edited August 26, 2015 by SteaKnight-X

[motorfirebox]

You get already ferrite armor.(It has its own dmg reduction traits)

That's just the type of hp, though. I'm talking about applying your Rhino's armor stat to the Iron Skin hp. That way the hp effectively scales with mods.

[SteaKnight-X]

That's just the type of hp, though. I'm talking about applying your Rhino's armor stat to the Iron Skin hp. That way the hp effectively scales with mods.

Yea I know what you mean^^

[MosiForLife]

Also it shouldnt be ferrite how about alloy like bombards 

[IronWolfKnight]

Maybe give Iron Skin a similar treatment to Frost's Snow Globe by giving it 4 seconds of invulnerability and the amount of damage done to Iron Skin is converted to extra Ferrite Armor during those 4 seconds and Rhino's armour adds more Ferrite Armor to Iron Skin.