Flawed Mastery System And Critical Need For Rework. Tl;dr Included

[Chub_N_Tuck]

This is going to be a long text, so I'll add tl;dr here.

Player progression and achievement system has been overlooked far too long, and DE needs to look at this system again soon because we have so many ignored statistics that can drastically improve the game.

We all know how this "MR matters" and "MR doesn't mean anything" polar arguments come out and people try to get others convinced to their beliefs. It's all pointless arguements if you ask me; it's not that the topic is terrible, it's the way so many people have been arguing.

This isn't the purpose of my post here, but I would like to touch upon this a bit first. To start off, we cannot have any generalization of the playbase such as

"High MR players are better than Low MR players."

or

"MR absolutely doesn't mean anything."

I'm sure everyone can agree at least that both statements aren't true. If we push aside these, we can have better discussions, not headbutt arguments that get us nowhere. MR ties to player progression and new player experience as a whole. It's not a miniscule feature.

So what does it mean by "MR matters"?

With my knowledge I can come up with this:

MR is an indictor which shows a player can contribute to the objective of the squad.

But this definition falls short because of the flawed indication. Having more gears leveled up and potentionally owning large number of weapons doesn't equal to the capability and contribution of the player. It is not a reliable indicator, but it's something that anyone can look at right away when they see a person in a squad.

Players rank their mastery rank until about 8 to 10 and stop caring too much in ranking further. That's the trend I'm seeing throughtout reddit and the main forums, and also that's what I did. MR does matter when it comes to assessing a player's amount of gears in their arsenal and potentially that the player hasn't been in the game too long if the MR is around 4 to 6, and it doesn't tell much beyond that. I know there are people who don't care about other weapons and warframes and stop around MR 6, but from my experience that's a special case that I almost do not see. When I see MR 4 to 6 player, I don't expect the same pool of weapons and ranked mods that MR 10+ players have. That's the stance I'm taking with this MR system and arguing anything beyond MR 8 to 10, to me, is pointless.

In my experience as a player who joined Nov-Dec of 2013, I have seen this topic so much, and I'm confident that DE has to come back and look at this MR system again. Some people may feel it's unnecessary because there is no need to indicate anything of a player. It's not absolutely needed. However, it is something that people see of others at first glance, and I want to see a better player progression that actually shows a player's achievements and capability as a player.

I think we need some indicator other than MR, which can show our effectiveness in weapon usage. And we already have that. On the weapon usage percentile screen in profile, we also see how many enemies a player has killed with each weapons. Also, the achievement tab needs serious look, since it is tied to Steam achievements and it's currently bugged. Not to mention we also need real achievements in there. It's something that adds to the game's replaybility in my opinion. Potentially, rewards from achievements can start as well.

What I've always thought as I play was Warframe lacks depth. Not just in gameplay, but player progression and many UI features that show the statistics of a player. It's pretty lame how we just have a long list of boring words in our profile and doesn't actually do anything. Who can disagree with an idea where a player can be rewarded even after 1000 hours? 2000 hours? We can actually have some strong indictor with time played, enemies killed and also number of missions cleared.

Solar map completion. Total time played. Total enemies killed; Grineer, Corpus, Infested and the Corrupted. Total amount of gears owned. Weapon Accuracy. Gross income. Even stats of how many events a player has participated.

These are some of the numerous indictors that are overlooked mostly by S#&$ty Mastery Rank, and many are blinded by it. All these can tie into achievements and ACTUAL REWARDS. Rewards should not only be from farming the void, farming certain maps, farming and grinding until our minds go numb. There's so much potential that is wasted here. These statistics can have their use, and I strongly suggest a rework in player progression and achievement system.

(As I say this, I'm still looking at why I have missed none of the Tactical Alerts and put effort in it, when it only adds a tiny mark to my Stratos Badge. It's such a disappointing reward system.)

In conclusion, we have all these potentials wasted in the game, but DE can always pull all these stats to actually mean something. We can have more individual uniqueness, and far better indicator of a player's capability and in addition to that, there could be way better rewarding system that draw people in, and make them stay and want to play more. Currently, only reason I'm staying is pretty much for the gameplay and helping others get gears and mods. Nothing much else. There's so many good rewarding system already set up for DE to implement.

Also, We should not be blinded by this flawed Mastery rank system, and look at the big picture. Thank you for reading.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[UltimateNinjaWarrior]

I want Mastery Rank Badges!

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I want Mastery Rank Badges!

Not like those generic uncolorable white "badges" though. Some real cosmetic upgrade with badges can be done as well. Seriously, we have all these cosmetics, but badges are some of the most disappointing cosmetics in the game.

[(XBOX)JasonsNightmare]

There should be a unique set of rewards for things like solar map completion, completing a few "real" achievements (as in killing a certain boss with a certain melee weapon, or running melee only nightmare assassinations, not just using a melee weapon only in ten missions) or for playing for a certain amount of hours. These rewards could be anything from specific weapons, resource crates, warframe slots, you name it.

 

Mastery rank shows how many different weapons you have upgraded, but I have seen a mastery rank 7 with his rank 30 Soma Prime do no damage in a T2 Exterminate. Why? Because he had never heard of a Forma. Mastery currently limits the weapons that we have access to, loadout slots that we own, and extractors that we deploy. Things need to be reworked.

 

Mastery Rank probably should affect loadout slots, but it should be more rewarding to get each one. If each Mastery Rank came with a weapon slot and a warframe slot, then players would want to go beyond Mastery Rank 10, but still need to buy slots if they build as much as I do.

 

Solar map completion should be the deciding factor in the amount of extractors that can be deployed. For example, they could make it so you can deploy one extractor for every planet cleared.

 

Conclave could serve as a replacement for mastery rank, since the new PvP has its own mod set, so reworking conclave could make it easier to gauge how well equipped each Tenno is.

 

Available weapons should (mostly) be determined by proficiency. If you have reached rank 30 on a specific weapon, you now have access to the next weapon in line. Basically, there would be a tech tree for each weapon. MK-1 Braton ->Braton->Grakata->Soma, for example. Dojo weapons and Prime weapons would be exempt from this, but it would make the grind for the new weapons being released more interesting, and you will have fewer players that only use the one weapon for the duration of the game. It would also provide more incentive for players like me to continue to rank up older weapons, and give a sense of progression for newer players.

 

And, lastly, there should be large rewards for players at regular intervals of hours played. Boosters, unique weapons, mods, gear, etc.

 

With each branch of the weapon tree maxed, each interval of time played reached, or with whatever unique in-game challenge completed, players should unlock a new title or "badge" that would appear under their name. The "badges" would be selectable, and would provide more incentive for completionists. There would even be badges for Founders and specific Prime Access holders.

[fatpig84]

MR does matter for trade and harvester drones.

Yes there are times I used up 15 trades in 1 day.

 

So 20 trades does come in handy at times.

If you don't trade then this thing doesn't affect you much of course.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

MR does matter for trade and harvester drones.

Yes there are times I used up 15 trades in 1 day.

 

So 20 trades does come in handy at times.

If you don't trade then this thing doesn't affect you much of course.

 

Yeah definitely.

 

Those things aren't done by every single people. So it is folly to apply that to everyone.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Main issue with MR isn't the rank itself. It's the people~

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Main issue with MR isn't the rank itself. It's the people~

I would say it's both the flawed system and the people that act like it matters a lot. The ranks in my eyes are just as at fault as elitists.

[MumblesMcphatty]

Would you agree OP that it's become less of a useful indicator as development has progressed?

It must have given some solid indication of experience back at the start, right? When everyone was keeping up with weapons/frames as released?

It's only become less of an indicator as time has passed - due to the rise of a meta and things like Draco. Players can choose not to bother with it after MR8 - since they may have all they want or feel is necessary. Arguably - Draco power levelling has created a lot of bad habits and inability to actually play the game *well* amongst a chunk of the playerbase.

Point being - it's not inherently bad as a system - it's just lost its relevance over time in a lot of ways. Rather than a complete rework - which would be a huge undertaking I'm sure because of the nature of the affinity system as we know it - may it not be better to look at it from this angle and find ways to mitigate it's increasing irrelevance?

[DrBorris]

Progression 2.0, A Complete Rework of the Presentation of Warframe.

 

MR is fine, in a game all about dem guns, a statistic that shows how many guns you leveled up is good. However, as you say, this statistics CANNOT be used to describe the progression of a player. ​What is needed is a rework to how we progress in Warframe.

[Volinus7]

How about we have an "Advanced Mastery Rank"

 

It's the same test as normal one but all enemies are LVL100 NAPALM.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Volinus7

[(XBOX)Hitome Meisner]

I can vouch for this as a mr 17 I believe what showed battle readiness more reliably was conclave rating at your name it showed if someone put time in using formas.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Would you agree OP that it's become less of a useful indicator as development has progressed?

It must have given some solid indication of experience back at the start, right? When everyone was keeping up with weapons/frames as released?

It's only become less of an indicator as time has passed - due to the rise of a meta and things like Draco. Players can choose not to bother with it after MR8 - since they may have all they want or feel is necessary. Arguably - Draco power levelling has created a lot of bad habits and inability to actually play the game *well* amongst a chunk of the playerbase.

Point being - it's not inherently bad as a system - it's just lost its relevance over time in a lot of ways. Rather than a complete rework - which would be a huge undertaking I'm sure because of the nature of the affinity system as we know it - may it not be better to look at it from this angle and find ways to mitigate it's increasing irrelevance?

For your first question, I have that written in OP already.

A Players rank their mastery rank until about 8 to 10 and stop caring too much in ranking further. That's the trend I'm seeing throughtout reddit and the main forums, and also that's what I did. MR does matter when it comes to assessing a player's amount of gears in their arsenal and potentially that the player hasn't been in the game too long if the MR is around 4 to 6, and it doesn't tell much beyond that. I know there are people who don't care about other weapons and warframes and stop around MR 6, but from my experience that's a special case that I almost do not see. When I see MR 4 to 6 player, I don't expect the same pool of weapons and ranked mods that MR 10+ players have. That's the stance I'm taking with this MR system and arguing anything beyond MR 8 to 10, to me, is pointless.

I guess I started the post with he MR issues, I get replies pertaining to it. Although it wasn't my main focus. I'm suggesting a bold change towards general achievement system in this game. MR is just one of them that act as a primary indicator for so many people, for lack of a better one. DE needs to come back to it eventually since this kind of polish is very good for the game.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Progression 2.0, A Complete Rework of the Presentation of Warframe.

MR is fine, in a game all about dem guns, a statistic that shows how many guns you leveled up is good. However, as you say, this statistics CANNOT be used to describe the progression of a player. ​What is needed is a rework to how we progress in Warframe.

Great post there, I'll read that once I have the time.

However, the problem occurs very frequently when a new player joins the game. While it is true that it shouldn't be used for player progression, it is undoubtedly used for looking at player progression. The sense of progression comes from Mastery rank from the beginning.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[Kaotyke]

A Reputation System would do us some good.

 

At the end of the mission you have the option to evaluate the team you played with with a +1 or a -1.

Ofc that would only apply up to 2 missions for the same team before there's a 10-20 mission cooldown so people of the same Clan dont upvote their clanmates without it being troublesome.

 

Explaining better: Tenno A plays with Tenno B and upvotes him, they do another mission togheter and Tenno A can upvote Tenno B again, but after that if they play togheter again, Tenno A wont be able to upvote Tenno B for at least 10-20 missions.

 

There would still be some flaws, but you would be able to see the Reputation of the Tenno in the Profile.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

-snip-

I would say such system can cause more problems, for lack of a better word. Has this kind of system implemented in other games I'm not aware of? I don't think it's terrible but people will be people, and there will be unfair treatment. I personally do not like the idea of letting people vote each other, but I could be wrong.

[Kaotyke]

I would say such system can cause more problems, for lack of a better word. Has this kind of system implemented in other games I'm not aware of? I don't think it's terrible but people will be people, and there will be unfair treatment. I personally do not like the idea of letting people vote each other, but I could be wrong.

The only one I've seen is the one in CS:GO, I got one point for being friendly, no idea how that works, so I think its a vote as far as I know.

[wtrmlnjuc]

My idea would be for a secondary indicator that shows how many hours you've played and to be able to wear it as a badge. A Loyalist badge or something.

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

Mastery rank should be more like mastery tests. Each rank should have a qualifier before you take the test.

For example - Mastery rank 10 to 11 could require 10,000 kills before the rank up test is complete.

11 to 12 could be 'Get 500 kills each with 10 weapons of your choice

12 to 13 could be 'Advancement not possible until the Star chart has been cleared

Ect.. Basically they should be challenges that actually make you play the game and experience different foccets of the game.

Could incorporate -

Cephalon Suda

Archwing

Conclave

The old injector antidotes

Incentive to revisit planets

Incentive to complete planets

Ect

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Mastery rank should be more like mastery tests. Each rank should have a qualifier before you take the test.

For example - Mastery rank 10 to 11 could require 10,000 kills before the rank up test is complete.

11 to 12 could be 'Get 500 kills each with 10 weapons of your choice

12 to 13 could be 'Advancement not possible until the Star chart has been cleared

Ect.. Basically they should be challenges that actually make you play the game and experience different foccets of the game.

Could incorporate -

Cephalon Suda

Archwing

Conclave

The old injector antidotes

Incentive to revisit planets

Incentive to complete planets

Ect

Those are good I guess, but I wanted discussions in achievement and rewards in general. Mastery rank would only be a link between the two. It is easy to say reward people for playing, but what kinds of rewards? Same old cosmetics? Or weapons? More customization options?

I think unlocking new melee animations would be very cool. More you play you unlock more animations and moves as you mastered more and more weapons. It would totally make sense too.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Mastery fits the business model, DE need to encourage the sale of frames, weapons slots etc, so the chances of it changing are minimal imo.

The obvious thing is to make mastery more complex than just getting a weapon/frame to 30. Ideas for weapons would be things such as:

X amount of kill

X amount of head shots

X amount of 2 kills with 1 shot

X amount of crits

X amount of statuses inflicted

X amount of Xhit combos

X amount of kills while channeling

X amount of bullets reflected

Etc

Obviously amounts/combinations would vary from weapon to weapon but each would be designed to show each weapons strengths and weakness and to encourage modding diversity.

This would only have to be be done once, not each time you forma and not passing would not hinder the weapons sfats or eligibility to be forma'ed, you just would get the mastery until all requirements were met.

Devs keep their business model and less people hiding behind mesas on Draco, players become better and mastery finally starts to live up to its name.

Edited August 24, 2015 by (PS4)obsidiancurse