How To Fix Ember

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Friend, you're biased and so am I. I play almost 100% Ember all the time these days in various survivals to 50 minutes or beyond. And my performance is consistently good. I very rarely see anyone playing any of the other frames to top potential. But people still do alright up to an hour if they're up for it. Myself I have a very easy and enjoyable time on Ember. My opinion that her damage is good is based on the fact that I have wear an extinguished key to not get bored in most survivals. That quarters all of my damage except for WoF's burns and on 1 CP my damage stays fine up 50 minutes. It's hard to compare WoF's output to Miasma because they are very different beasts. One is a burst spell that makes up 100% of a frames damage output if they're using it to its highest potential. Another is an passive automatic targeting aura with that can multihit and apply burns to targets and still becomes only a part of the frames damage output used to its maximum potential.

 

Ember isn't like Saryn. And vice versa. They offer very different gameplay experiences. If WoF outdamaged Miasma Saryn would be quite underpowered because Ember can do so much else while WoF is active. Likewise with frames like Mesa and Ash and even Excalibur to a degree. Their abilities and gunplay don't flow together the way Ember's does so they don't really compare well to her. Ember offers very different opportunities because of her freedom of action in the use of her abilities. She can effectively use all 4 abilities simultaneously without lose much from her gun/weapon-play. Saryn is a nuke, Mesa a turret, Excalibur a guided missile. Ember is an armada or a gun-ship that can call in support airstrikes. The specialized weapons should perform their function well. And in my opinion Ember performs her function well as a versatile choice with a combination of weapons.

 

Frames like Mirage and Equinox compare much better with Ember. As they also have duration based damage and enhancement abilities that support their weapon-play. I haven't played them so I can't speak of their play compared to Ember. They both seem like strong choices but as I have stated I have no problem making a strong contribution to missions on the basis of Ember's merits. And most importantly I have a lot of fun with my chosen frame, which is why I'm not in a rush to migrate to one of those other two that might play like Ember.

 

Its hard for me to take anything you say to mean anything if you haven't played as other frames cause embers damage can't compare to any other frame. Yes sayrn is a nuke, but with 3 abilities ember can't deal out the same amount of damage. 

Also try lasting past 40 minutes solo in a t4 survival. You can even unequip your dragon key, You'll notice that her abilities are totally worthless after 28 minutes in ( 35 if you equip corrosive projection  ) Unlike mirage or equinox, Ember is very restrictive to play, has no real defensive abilities, Can not be maximized effectively and is just out performed in any role you put her in. 

 

Rhino Roar, Sonar, eclipse, molecular prime, Rift Surge (yup limbo outdamages ember) are better versions of accelerant. They do more damage, let you use any elemental combination/any and all damage and a few provide better crowd control then a 1 second stun.

Lets look at the first ability. Comparing it just with damage over other abilities. It does less damage and is less useful then rhino charge, does less damage then smite shrunken and null star while only being a small aoe and having no other utility.

Fireblast is a cool looking aoe knockdown but the damage is kinda minimal it only does (150 per enemy ) with only the knockback being particularly useful.

World on fire is easily the worst ultimate in the game damage wise. It does the Same amount of damage as her first ability and all it really accomplishes is stopping enemies for a second or two as the damage is just bad. Its has 3 main flaws, Only hitting unto 1 enemy per second after the initial 5, Having duration slapped onto it, and its damage staying the same as her first ability.

 

even having accelerant as a bandaid doesn't help as other frames out damage her even with accelerant added into the equation. 

Every frame has a combo combo to speak off. A two ability combo that is particularly devastating. Examples include Molecular prime and antimatter drop as it slows enemies does radial damage and antimatter drop can wipe out everything. Radial Blind and exalted blade, to kill even the most stubborn of enemies. Rhino roar and rhino stomp, damage bonus that gets added on to rhino stomp's original damage, this heavily damages and stuns a large group of enemies creating breathing room or allowing you to counter attack or escape. Hall of mirrors is kinda a defensive ability in itself. Enemies shoot at clones, clones shoot at enemies its pretty sweet, but wait! there's more!!! along with your four clones doing a minimum of 25% of your weapon damage ( that can get increased btw) you have eclipse that makes her do insane amounts of weapon damage or give her insane damage reduction. These buffs last forever unlike embers which maybe hits a small room. As it stands know. Ember is the only frame that restricts what you can do with no real pay off. Accelerant gives you more damage but only fire, world on fire helps clear enemies.... only for however long duration lasts, Fireblast helps you knockback enemies and by the time you finish the animation and move five feet that one bombard already has fired 2 shots at you.

 

Ember's rework needs increased damage, less restrictive gameplay, a defensive ability ( cause 99% of warframes have a defensive ability ) and a better ultimate. There is no way to really maximize her and until i see it. Theres no way an ember could survive 50 minutes in a survival without teammates and an extinguished dragon key. Its a bunch baloney as you need to kill things to get life support.

 

She needs a rework akin to frost or excal. And things like corrosive projection prove she is a weak frame. ( corrosive projection basically makes most enemies lose 1/3 of their effective health. Armor is ember's worst nightmare currently with nullifiers being a close second.) 

 

And anyone can last forever in survival with a team your words mean nothing to me as I'm looking at the actual numbers of ember, Ember normally loses all effectiveness in a t4 survival at right around 28 minutes. Cause her damage doesn't compensate for her lack of a defensive ability. If you get swarmed by 2 a group of enemies you will struggle to kill a bombard, and eventually a nullifier will be the death of you, 

 

She's great in pvp, but everything is great in pvp... 

[RealPandemonium]

Fire Blast is her best damage option... EDIT: Turns out that I severely underestimated Fire Blast's damage potential.  It's a great radial nuke at close range!

 

Now I have read it all.  The Ember crazies never die on this forum!

 

Edit: Just read the post above this one.  Absolutely crazy stuff.  Ember threads never fail to astound.  

Edited September 1, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Fire Blast is her best damage option...

 

Now I have read it all.  The Ember crazies never die on this forum!

 

Edit: Just read the post above this one.  Absolutely crazy stuff.  Ember threads never fail to astound.  

 Are you sure? fireblast does 150 damage bro

[RealPandemonium]

 Are you sure? fireblast does 150 damage bro

The Fire Blast comment is sarcasm in response to the OP.  That said, you can get respectable damage out of it.  My max efficiency build can deal 14442 damage from a single cast (after Accelerant) if you include the Heat proc's damage, and even more if they're stuck in the fire ring for the 5 seconds that they'll flail for.

Edited September 1, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Ryjeon]

 

Also try lasting past 40 minutes solo in a t4 survival. You can even unequip your dragon key, You'll notice that her abilities are totally worthless after 28 minutes in ( 35 if you equip corrosive projection  )

 

Ember's rework needs increased damage, less restrictive gameplay, a defensive ability ( cause 99% of warframes have a defensive ability ) and a better ultimate. There is no way to really maximize her and until i see it. Theres no way an ember could survive 50 minutes in a survival without teammates and an extinguished dragon key. Its a bunch baloney as you need to kill things to get life support.

And anyone can last forever in survival with a team your words mean nothing to me as I'm looking at the actual numbers of ember, Ember normally loses all effectiveness in a t4 survival at right around 28 minutes. Cause her damage doesn't compensate for her lack of a defensive ability. If you get swarmed by 2 a group of enemies you will struggle to kill a bombard, and eventually a nullifier will be the death of you, 

 

http://i.imgur.com/nsSlY7P.png The very highest level survival to 50 minutes is a decent challenge to solo on Ember. Yes, the nullifiers which are designed to counter ability spam do a pretty good job versus a frame whose survival in the higher levels is largely dependent on continually casting. My deaths did generally come from not respecting bombards or from nullifiers sneaking up behind me. This doesn't bother me though. I should expect to go down versus damage amped enemies designed to counter warframe abilities. And naturally other frames are going to be better fits versus those enemies in particular. Though as you say in teams its generally not a problem to stay upright thanks to combined cover.

 

I personally think T3 is more fun, maybe because I like to play a frame that lends itself to glass cannon builds. My favorite missions are grineer and T2S, and the occasional infested survival. I can run the nullifier bubble missions fine with any team. http://i.imgur.com/KtjIvVa.png But I get annoyed having to use specialized weapons to pop bubbles. I prefer the fast fun gameplay of a melee and parkour mix-it-up style, and Ember serves that purpose very well. Occasionally I'll get to cut loose with teams that are up for going longer.

 

I personally do think Ember can do a lot more damage than Saryn, if you take into account her weapon damage and the burn procs from WoF. But it really comes down to how you're going to play either frame. I don't think just hitting a radial ult over and over again is my idea of good time. I really don't care how much damage it does. But likewise I don't think you really understand what makes Ember a good frame for me. I'm sure the ideas you have are fine ones. But I think you're underestimating what Ember is currently capable of. http://i.imgur.com/qvp5HMx.png

Edited September 1, 2015 by Ryjeon

[(XBOX)CERNUNNOS]

As a fire based frame, I'd like to see ember have some sort of resistance to fire based attacks. Maybe take less damage and she doesn't get knocked down or staggered. Maybe fire based attacks on Ember even make her stronger in some way, restore energy or something. I just don't get why a fire based frame is affected by fire attacks. 

 

As for her abilities, perhaps they could combine 1 and 2 into a single ability. She tosses out accelerant as she throws a fire ball. If I am remembering correctly, Sargas Ruk has a pretty nasty fire based attack that would suit Ember's theme. I'm not sure but it may be similar to her third ability just way more powerful. And world on fire is just a mess imo especially against high level enemies. Perhaps if it were more powerful and used less energy. Even with high efficiency it drains fast. Yet Excal can use exalted blade for an entire match on the first cast of the ability. What I'd really like to see for Ember is an attack where fireballs rain down from the sky like a meteor storm. Add that to world on fire and use less energy and I'd be happy. 

[Hammahness808]

The Fire Blast comment sarcasm in response to the OP.  That said, you can get respectable damage out of it.  My max efficiency build can deal 14442 damage from a single cast (after Accelerant) if you include the Heat proc's damage, and even more if they're stuck in the fire ring for the 5 seconds that they'll flail for.

That's the downside to Fireblast, not many enemies will stay in the fire ring for more than 3 seconds because for the most part enemies are always on the move. Can you check exactly how much energy your spending, post that and how much damage you're doing with Fireblast before fire procs and accelerant.

[IX-44]

Bring back Overheat.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Rebirth: No more Fireball. That skill is garbage and you all know it, especially considering Fire Blast is basically an AoE version. So, instead, this. Target an Ally a restore a percent of health, with a duration based status immunity afterwords, as well as purging all current statuses on the target. Cannot target herself, and the casting range as well as heal strength and status immunity duration are impacted by mods. Augment works as it does now.

Rebirth could be even more Phoenix-like, and instead of plain healing, it could e.g. bring players to e,g, 5% HP then shortly after give them rapid health regeneration up to 100% HP (regeneration rate and time it takes for rebirth would work similar to Oberon's Renewal).

 

It could also have some utility in case of a downed player (revive or add time).

 

There is some trolling potential in minimum duration builds though.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Mofixil

[RealPandemonium]

That's the downside to Fireblast, not many enemies will stay in the fire ring for more than 3 seconds because for the most part enemies are always on the move. Can you check exactly how much energy your spending, post that and how much damage you're doing with Fireblast before fire procs and accelerant.

Well, the initial damage inflicts Heat proc, so if the flame wave didn't move enemies inside the ring out if it, they would be stuck in there for a good 5 seconds guaranteed.  

 

My Fire Blast costs 18.5 energy.  The initial damage deals 150 * 2.12 * 2 = 636 damage (base damage * power str bonus * headshot bonus.)  One tick of the fire ring does 225 * 2.12 = 477 damage.  The flame wave deals 100 * 2.12 = 212 damage.  636 + 477 + 212 = 1325 damage before Accelerant.  

 

Accelerant boosts the damage to 7022.  The Heat proc from the initial damage will add 4452 additional damage without Accelerant, and adds 23595 with it.  Oops, looks like I significantly low-balled Fire Blast's damage potential earlier.  It actually does a ton more damage than I calculated in a sleep-deprived state last night.  Change my total number to 30617.  :p  Maybe the OP had a bit of a point after all...

[shoopypit]

fireball isnt complete garbage, it has some AOE and you can use it while reloading. it's also fun to use. people seem to not pay attention to whether or not abilities or fun. just "ermergerd ert surks". i think a small change would be catching the enemies on fire and having it spread to any other enemies that come in contact with it, while also dealing a certain amount of DPS.

 

i think if you want a "team" power than have any allies who come into contact with her powers take a 50% hit to armor but also take an increase to shields. IDK. maybe something similar. but i dont like the idea of a dedicated defense only ability to her. sure other frames have one, but let's do something unique with her.

 

i think her 2nd and 3rd abilities are fine. some utility and cc never hurt a frame.

 

her 4th is just for scrubs. scrubs are now maining excal since his rework, and saying her 4th should be just as scrubalicious as excal's is bleh. i dont think any other frame should be held to that standard. we already have people spamming 4 with certain frames. sure everyone can play how they want. im all for changing her 4th to something far more interesting and satisfying, but scrubbing it up even more sounds terrible to me. though i am probably in the minority

 

now, i haven't potatoed my ember yet, nor have i potatoed any fire weapons, but i plan on it to try making an accelerant build. im thinking with the right build she could be the perfect derelict damage frame. maybe others have tried it. idk. but it will be fun to do

[Ryjeon]

@UltraKardas

 

I'm curious what you think about the rumored Saryn rework.  It sounds to me like you use her 4 heavily and occasionally her 2 for a decoy and heals. There was a time where 1 had the potential to outdamage her 4. It stacked on enemies in the room quickly and brought more and more damage numbers. But it was too laggy so it was majorly toned down. Her 3 has always been disappointing. It was a little strong pre-damage 2.0 because toxin damage ignored armor + shields and everything had armor.

 

I'm expecting her 4 to stop working the way it does now. I don't think it will continue to get extra damage from negative duration. That seems to me an interaction that the studio has turned a blind eye to in the introduction of corrupted mods. But I think her kit will get some extra perks to make up for Miasma not being the mass of her damage. She'll probably get a net damage increase but she'll have to use a combination of abilities rather than just her 4 to achieve her max output. I think she'll be more of a damage over time frame maybe with Miasma as a giant spreading Gas Cloud you lay out sort of like Eruption in the OP's idea.  And she'll fight within while popping Venom sacs and using whatever Contagion becomes.

 

Players will probably the miss the radial burst damage ability. But there are alternatives like Mag's Crush and Excalibur's Radial Javelin that operate with some similarities. For me I'll probably give new Saryn a roll. Saryn is my most formaed Frame as I used to play her heavily about a year and a half ago. She was tanky for the time and the Miasma burst was a satisfying pop to a busy room. But now I like the idea of her kit being fleshed out and using combinations of abilities to achieve her maximum potential. This is all conjecture on my part though.

 

What do you think will be changed? Do you think she needs changes? Should Miasma be kept intact for now? I figure your idea towards Accelerant is more about altering Ember's gameplay than fixing Ember's damage. Should Saryn's gameplay be changed if the result is a higher damage potential but requiring more work to access? I bring it up in this thread because I expect Saryn will become a little more like Ember as a frame with a mix of damage over time and weapon buffs.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Ryjeon

[Hammahness808]

Well, the initial damage inflicts Heat proc, so if the flame wave didn't move enemies inside the ring out if it, they would be stuck in there for a good 5 seconds guaranteed.  

 

My Fire Blast costs 18.5 energy.  The initial damage deals 150 * 2.12 * 2 = 636 damage (base damage * power str bonus * headshot bonus.)  One tick of the fire ring does 225 * 2.12 = 477 damage.  The flame wave deals 100 * 2.12 = 212 damage.  636 + 477 + 212 = 1325 damage before Accelerant.  

 

Accelerant boosts the damage to 7022.  The Heat proc from the initial damage will add 4452 additional damage without Accelerant, and adds 23595 with it.  Oops, looks like I significantly low-balled Fire Blast's damage potential earlier.  It actually does a ton more damage than I calculated in a sleep-deprived state last night.  Change my total number to 30617.  :p  Maybe the OP had a bit of a point after all...

I'm looking at ~10k (over the fire proc of 6-7 seconds) and tested it out in a TIII capture mission. For the most part, with Accelerant, it would take down normies but heavy units took it and maybe lost half health.

 

Also, there's a chance to hit the head, doesn't always happen, at least according to Wiki's notes:

Should the initial explosion hit an enemy's head, the Heat DoT will inflict 100% of the initial damage per tick for the same duration.

 

I don't have the simulacron at the moment but if you had it and it was no big deal to record a quick vid, could you?

 

 

I wish Fireblast's augment would be built in.

Edited September 1, 2015 by TGKazein

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

@UltraKardas

 

I'm curious what you think about the rumored Saryn rework.  It sounds to me like you use her 4 heavily and occasionally her 2 for a decoy and heals. There was a time where 1 had the potential to outdamage her 4. It stacked on enemies in the room quickly and brought more and more damage numbers. But it was too laggy so it was majorly toned down. Her 3 has always been disappointing. It was a little strong pre-damage 2.0 because toxin damage ignored armor + shields and everything had armor.

 

I'm expecting her 4 to stop working the way it does now. I don't think it will continue to get extra damage from negative duration. That seems to me an interaction that the studio has turned a blind eye to in the introduction of corrupted mods. But I think her kit will get some extra perks to make up for Miasma not being the mass of her damage. She'll probably get a net damage increase but she'll have to use a combination of abilities rather than just her 4 to achieve her max output. I think she'll be more of a damage over time frame maybe with Miasma as a giant spreading Gas Cloud you lay out sort of like Eruption in the OP's idea.  And she'll fight within while popping Venom sacs and using whatever Contagion becomes.

 

Players will probably the miss the radial burst damage ability. But there are alternatives like Mag's Crush and Excalibur's Radial Javelin that operate with some similarities. For me I'll probably give new Saryn a roll. Saryn is my most formaed Frame as I used to play her heavily about a year and a half ago. She was tanky for the time and the Miasma burst was a satisfying pop to a busy room. But now I like the idea of her kit being fleshed out and using combinations of abilities to achieve her maximum potential. This is all conjecture on my part though.

 

What do you think will be changed? Do you think she needs changes? Should Miasma be kept intact for now? I figure your idea towards Accelerant is more about altering Ember's gameplay than fixing Ember's damage. Should Saryn's gameplay be changed if the result is a higher damage potential but requiring more work to access? I bring it up in this thread because I expect Saryn will become a little more like Ember as a frame with a mix of damage over time and weapon buffs.

 

My first guess is that sayrn would turn into a nova/banshee hybrid. Miasma would need str and duration and would cover an initial area corroding and poisoning all enemies that enter hitting them with toxin, viral corrosive procs etc... Contagion could be altered to infect a group with toxin spores making sayrn have kinda a rotation of toxin > contagion then miasma for aoe damage/weakening. Contagion would need to do a bit of damage otherwise it would be too much damage over time. Or contagion spreads toxin spores from on target to the immediate enemies nearby, then if the enemies are killied, they explode infecting a larger radius and infect more enemies from there...

 

Making her more duration based would mean she gets the most out of molt as well

 

What do you think?

Edited September 1, 2015 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[rawr1254]

So many people not liking Ember cause they don't know how to play her :[ 

 

All her skills are needed to be used in conjunction with accelerant or else you're wasting time and energy.

She CAN deal more damage than Saryn because think of it this way: Saryn can deal 10k+ damage, yes, BUT this is once per second. If you take into account that Ember can deal 8000 damage(Yes 8000 damage with accelerant+WoF) 2-4.5 time PER SECOND well...do the math. Also you need to know when to use which skill. If there are 10-15 enemies all near each other go for a 2>3 if they're more spread out go for a 2>4. ANd don't jsut leave it up to the skill you can still use your weapons and reload and all. I do agree with most accusation that she does need some way to better protect herself and that should be taken care of by giving her some form of passive. I personally like the "Rebirth" passive idea. Where she goes into a "shell" state and becomes unable to attack for a while but if she survives it she will revive with no cost.

Edited September 2, 2015 by rawr1254

[Ryjeon]

My first guess is that sayrn would turn into a nova/banshee hybrid. Miasma would need str and duration and would cover an initial area corroding and poisoning all enemies that enter hitting them with toxin, viral corrosive procs etc... Contagion could be altered to infect a group with toxin spores making sayrn have kinda a rotation of toxin > contagion then miasma for aoe damage/weakening. Contagion would need to do a bit of damage otherwise it would be too much damage over time. Or contagion spreads toxin spores from on target to the immediate enemies nearby, then if the enemies are killied, they explode infecting a larger radius and infect more enemies from there...

 

Making her more duration based would mean she gets the most out of molt as well

 

What do you think?

 

Yeah, that's about what I hope for and it would really so her power theme. A DoT/status field that expands like M Prime would fit the concept of a Miasma. And they could do something to make Contagion more of a spreading infection. There's definitely the potential for a whole new frame built on the underlying concepts of Saryn's abilities. I'm hoping for more ability interactions with good rewards for chaining them together.

 

Thinking about Saryn makes me think about some of the ideas I've brainstormed about alternatives for Accelerant. What if you could consume the Accelerant debuff on enemies for an explosion or melt off their armor. Maybe make it an augment called Volatile Accelerant, and have it melt off a chunk of Armor.

 

Or maybe Ember can have a passive that can make use of multiple burn procs since they don't currently stack. I was thinking have new burns cause the previous burn to explode for a tick of damage. Or cause the enemy to instantly take 50 % of the remaining damage of the previous burn. It seems like it could be a tricky thing to balance, but there could be potential there.

 

In general ideas like what you mention for Saryn are something I could get behind for Ember. I like power interactions and managing damage over time. Fire and Toxin are classic damage over time archetypes. The idea I got for consuming Accelerant comes from "expunge" - abilities from characters like Twitch in League of Legends or Viper from Darkspore. They have abilities that cause all the DoTs on a target to instantly do their full damage. I like current Ember but I think these warframes have potential to have really interesting kits so I'm looking forward to Saryn's redesign.

[Duralumin]

Why do they not just allow the ring for Fire Blast to scale with Power Range like it used to, instead of hard-locking it at this disgusting 4m radius that barely covers a cryopod?

[Hammahness808]

Why do they not just allow the ring for Fire Blast to scale with Power Range like it used to, instead of hard-locking it at this disgusting 4m radius that barely covers a cryopod?

My guess is that the inner area where enemies don't receive damage would be too big and/or the augment would make it very powerful.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

So many people not liking Ember cause they don't know how to play her :[ 

 

All her skills are needed to be used in conjunction with accelerant or else you're wasting time and energy.

She CAN deal more damage than Saryn because think of it this way: Saryn can deal 10k+ damage, yes, BUT this is once per second. If you take into account that Ember can deal 8000 damage(Yes 8000 damage with accelerant+WoF) 2-4.5 time PER SECOND well...do the math. Also you need to know when to use which skill. If there are 10-15 enemies all near each other go for a 2>3 if they're more spread out go for a 2>4. ANd don't jsut leave it up to the skill you can still use your weapons and reload and all. I do agree with most accusation that she does need some way to better protect herself and that should be taken care of by giving her some form of passive. I personally like the "Rebirth" passive idea. Where she goes into a "shell" state and becomes unable to attack for a while but if she survives it she will revive with no cost.

 

False, At max strength ember can only do 7k damage at max if you cast accelerant and wof.... meaning Wof hits a maximum of 5 targets initially then 1 per second, You end up using more energy to hit less enemies. Comparing it to a sayrn that can do 10k damage with less energy unto as many targets that are in range... 

 

If ember has a wolf that lasts for five seconds she will maybe hit 10 enemies. 5 initially then 5 over the course of the duration, Miasma nukes everything.

[RealPandemonium]

If ember has a wolf that lasts for five seconds she will maybe hit 10 enemies. 5 initially then 5 over the course of the duration

WoF ticks 3-4 times per second, so you can hit around 22 enemies in a single cast, and that's assuming it only lasts 5 seconds.  Also take into account that Accelerant's "casting speed" buff gives you a free extra second on WoF, which allows you to hit 3-4 more enemies for a total of 26 enemies on average.   

 

It's also kind of silly to compare min duration Miasma to anything, given that the -duration gives it 3000 extra base damage added to its intended base of 1500.  This is just one of DE's biggest debacles, right up there with Excaliburgate and the propagation of superweapons that began with the Boltor Prime.  

[RealPandemonium]

I'm looking at ~10k (over the fire proc of 6-7 seconds) and tested it out in a TIII capture mission. For the most part, with Accelerant, it would take down normies but heavy units took it and maybe lost half health.

 

Also, there's a chance to hit the head, doesn't always happen, at least according to Wiki's notes:

The headshot on the initial damage is really what gives it such huge damage potential since it quadruples the damage of the Heat proc.  Fire Blast headshots almost totally consistently as far as I can see.  My video recording capacity is poor, but I'll see if I can record something decent.  

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Yeah, that's about what I hope for and it would really so her power theme. A DoT/status field that expands like M Prime would fit the concept of a Miasma. And they could do something to make Contagion more of a spreading infection. There's definitely the potential for a whole new frame built on the underlying concepts of Saryn's abilities. I'm hoping for more ability interactions with good rewards for chaining them together.

 

Thinking about Saryn makes me think about some of the ideas I've brainstormed about alternatives for Accelerant. What if you could consume the Accelerant debuff on enemies for an explosion or melt off their armor. Maybe make it an augment called Volatile Accelerant, and have it melt off a chunk of Armor.

 

Or maybe Ember can have a passive that can make use of multiple burn procs since they don't currently stack. I was thinking have new burns cause the previous burn to explode for a tick of damage. Or cause the enemy to instantly take 50 % of the remaining damage of the previous burn. It seems like it could be a tricky thing to balance, but there could be potential there.

 

In general ideas like what you mention for Saryn are something I could get behind for Ember. I like power interactions and managing damage over time. Fire and Toxin are classic damage over time archetypes. The idea I got for consuming Accelerant comes from "expunge" - abilities from characters like Twitch in League of Legends or Viper from Darkspore. They have abilities that cause all the DoTs on a target to instantly do their full damage. I like current Ember but I think these warframes have potential to have really interesting kits so I'm looking forward to Saryn's redesign.

 

i don't see why accelerant doesn't make enemies explode. Gas + fire = boom. It shouldn't need an augment but there are so many things you could do accelerant to make it better.

Edited September 2, 2015 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[Bibliothekar]

Let's be real. She's bad. Real bad. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Ember is fine as she is. Her problem is that Heat got the short end of the stick compared to the other elemental damage types. Let Corpus burn under their shields and Grineer cook in their armor and Ember will automatically get better.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Ember is fine as she is. Her problem is that Heat got the short end of the stick compared to the other elemental damage types. Let Corpus burn under their shields and Grineer cook in their armor and Ember will automatically get better.

 

That makes ember sound not fine as she is as heat damage won't be changed anytime soon

[Bibliothekar]

a "rise from the ashes [death]" would be pretty damn OP if it didn't have drawbacks

Depends. If it only works for her, to quickly resurrect from a downed state without your teammates helping (maybe even without having to waste a revive when playing solo) ... Granted, it should still have a short timer - say it only works during the first five seconds of being downed. Would make her pretty awesome, though, wouldn't it?

 

Oh yea, u right, a frame with 3 damage dealing abilities that do pretty much the same damn thing isn't broken. lol.

So you'd say Frost is broken, too?

 

Sayrn can easily do 10k damage to a group of enemies for about 25 energy.

But that's because the damage calculation for Miasma is broken in it's current form. Which is not Ember's fault.