Excalibur Exalted Blade Change Maybeh?

[YasaiTsume]

His Exalted Blade is not only over powered, but also very boring. I like it has actual combos but that is silly as every slash sends out a wave of energy anyway so it just slows DPS.

I love the new Excal Rework but I feel Exalted Blade just makes the player... dumb. 

Synergy is off the charts with Blind. 

Slash Dash is not even a thing anymore since there is no longer a need to use it for damage and new Parkour 2.0 is way better for travelling. 




Exalted Blade [suggestion]

- Ignites a sword from his hand [Galatine Length?]
- Scales to Power Range to become Longer [ << Personal want so I can see a super long sword]

- Scales to Power Strength for higher damage
- Scales to Efficiency to drain lesser energy 
- Deals Slash Impact and Puncture like before

- Deals Finisher damage to Blinded enemies 

 

Weird Changes that I have no idea why I thought of

- Slide attack sweeps the target off their feet [For finishers lol]

- Aerial attack launches a wave of energy [so people won't miss the time where they once became a blender]
- Ground attack launches enemies up [Like Rhino lool]
- Combo counter makes the sword glow brighter [cos why not]


Feedback below! MAKE DIS HAPPEN LOL I WANT DIS

Edited August 31, 2015 by YasaiTsume

[noveltyhero]

The wave energy is great, my only problem is how useless the combos are unfortunately. Something that is also problematic with pretty much every stance ever :/

[Trichouette]

My only problem with EB are :

Useless combo

the fact it's the only ability that can damage nullifier's shield.

 

The second point makes it totally OP to me.

[Bizzaro21]

His Exalted Blade is not only over powered, but also very boring. I like it has actual combos but that is silly as every slash sends out a wave of energy anyway so it just slows DPS.

combos have damage multipliers on them, so it`s not a waste to use them

 

I love the new Excal Rework but I feel Exalted Blade just makes the player... dumb. 

try t4 survival, at 60, player has to keep them blinded all the time now that the immortality block is out, the player has to keep intense or spend a revive

 

Synergy is off the charts with Blind. 

do you even cal, bro? blind is a must when trying to kill lvl 60+ gunners quickly

 

Slash Dash is not even a thing anymore since there is no longer a need to use it for damage and new Parkour 2.0 is way better for travelling. 

it does more dmg than javelin but to 1/2/3 targets, also, tried it with a duration build? gets me way further than any parkour move

 

Exalted Blade [suggestion]

1- Ignites a sword from his hand [Galatine Length?]

2- Scales to Power Range to become Longer [ << Personal want so I can see a super long sword]

3- Scales to Power Strength for higher damage

4- Scales to Efficiency to drain lesser energy 

5- Deals Slash Impact and Puncture like before

6- Deals Finisher damage to Blinded enemies 

1-a long sword waving with the current speed? would look like trash, no thnx

2-am i going to put power range for visuals now? next.....

3-it already does

4-^look number 3

5-^look number 4 (it is just affected by the elemental mods on your melee, therefore u will see procs other than physical ones, but it already deals physical damage)

6-did u even try excal? look number 3

 

Weird Changes that I have no idea why I thought of

1- Slide attack sweeps the target off their feet [For finishers lol]

2- Aerial attack launches a wave of energy [so people won't miss the time where they once became a blender]

3- Ground attack launches enemies up [Like Rhino lool]

4- Combo counter makes the sword glow brighter [cos why not]

1-blind is better, for finishers as well

2-does that now

3-does that as well, similar to scindo/galatine jumps

4-i`ll agree to this one, the sword looks too dull

 

Feedback below! MAKE DIS HAPPEN LOL I WANT DIS

 

[Tsukinoki]

the fact it's the only ability that can damage nullifier's shield.

Any other projectile based ability will also damage a nullifiers shield.

If you hit a bubble with Freeze, Fireball, or Shuriken you'll see the bubble shrink just like if you had shot it, and in Shurikens case you will see the projectiles bounce off randomly.

So no, its not the only ability that can damage the shield.

Just one of the easiest ones to do it with.

[Stratego89]

combos have damage multipliers on them, so it`s not a waste to use them

 

try t4 survival, at 60, player has to keep them blinded all the time now that the immortality block is out, the player has to keep intense or spend a revive

 

do you even cal, bro? blind is a must when trying to kill lvl 60+ gunners quickly

 

it does more dmg than javelin but to 1/2/3 targets, also, tried it with a duration build? gets me way further than any parkour move

The combo multipliers only work on direct hits with your actual sword. Waves are affected in no way whatsoever.

 

Mindlessly spamming skills all the time doesn't keep it from making the player "dumb", it just means they have to remember to spam an extra button (oh so hard right).

 

You don't seem to understand what the word synergy means... He's talking about the fact that waves do extra damage to blinded enemies as any melee attack would- which in my personal opinion in EB's current state should not (if we eventually get a rework that nerfs the range and number of the waves significantly and makes them more intelligent, it'd be fine though).

 

Agreed, it's almost overpowered for movement but not quite. It's a great getaway skill or something to quickly close the gap to a very dangerous enemy you don't want to fool around with (I haven't tested but I wonder if it would launch you into a nullifier bubble, not like that matters since his OP ult just destroys it, which it shouldn't- again imo).

[Trichouette]

Any other projectile based ability will also damage a nullifiers shield.

If you hit a bubble with Freeze, Fireball, or Shuriken you'll see the bubble shrink just like if you had shot it, and in Shurikens case you will see the projectiles bounce off randomly.

So no, its not the only ability that can damage the shield.

Just one of the easiest ones to do it with.

But can you spam shurikens / freeze / fireball as much as you can spam waves ? nope

 

combos have damage multipliers on them, so it`s not a waste to use them

 

Well... not according to this http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Exalted_Blade_%28Stance%29

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

EB is in a wierd place. It's totally OP from low to mid tier game and is balanced only for about 5 to 10% of the game. It is also completely annoying to hear squad mates spamming it. The sound effect for it is endless, thanks to almost endless duration...and it's overbearing AF to listen to for an entire mission.

The duration on EB is so negligible that you'll often hear a user spamming it even when there are no enemies around, since there is no downside or repercussions for doing so.

[Bizzaro21]

The combo multipliers only work on direct hits with your actual sword. Waves are affected in no way whatsoever.

 

Well... not according to this http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Exalted_Blade_%28Stance%29

actually, the melee hit multiplier is what applies to direct attacks only, the combo multipliers do apply to waves, tested it, a wave would deal 1k dmg, next would deal 1.5k, maybe a bug, i don`t know, but it does apply (note: also, maybe a crit hit, gonna need more test)

 

Mindlessly spamming skills all the time doesn't keep it from making the player "dumb", it just means they have to remember to spam an extra button (oh so hard right).

actually, as Blind is LoS, it is not dead-brains, the swarm is insane by 60 mins, no matter how many u have blinded, some unblinded will be there to spoil your fun, so it isn`t that easy

 

You don't seem to understand what the word synergy means... He's talking about the fact that waves do extra damage to blinded enemies as any melee attack would- which in my personal opinion in EB's current state should not (if we eventually get a rework that nerfs the range and number of the waves significantly and makes them more intelligent, it'd be fine though).

the waves with radiant finish need like 10-15 hits to kill a gunner eximus lvl 70 or so, if this was removed, it`d be a great nerf to cal`s effectiveness

 

Agreed, it's almost overpowered for movement but not quite. It's a great getaway skill or something to quickly close the gap to a very dangerous enemy you don't want to fool around with (I haven't tested but I wonder if it would launch you into a nullifier bubble, not like that matters since his OP ult just destroys it, which it shouldn't- again imo).

it launches towards targets one at a time in its cone range, duration makes it travel further (=more enemies hit), but it won`t take u to a nulli by targeting him, but if u aim it in air towards him, yes, u will go in the bubble

 

But can you spam shurikens / freeze / fireball as much as you can spam waves ? nope

since i have a primary equipped with frost/ash/ember, no i won`t waste my power on that, cal, since i have only my melee on, i should be able to deal with him with it, since it will be nullified if I go in to melee him, nope, leave the waves alone

[Tsukinoki]

But can you spam shurikens / freeze / fireball as much as you can spam waves ? nope

And that is just moving the goalposts of you're argument.

You specifically stated that EB was the only ability that can destroy nullifier bubbles which is wrong.

Whether the other projectile abilities that can damage it are as spammable as the waves is another point entirely and not directly related.

In fact, even Hysteria can destroy the nullifier bubbles if you're careful...

 

So please don't move the goalposts of an argument when people show you're wrong.

 

The combo multipliers only work on direct hits with your actual sword. Waves are affected in no way whatsoever.

 

Agreed, it's almost overpowered for movement but not quite. It's a great getaway skill or something to quickly close the gap to a very dangerous enemy you don't want to fool around with (I haven't tested but I wonder if it would launch you into a nullifier bubble, not like that matters since his OP ult just destroys it, which it shouldn't- again imo).

Actually to your first point the combo multiplier will affect the wave damage.

The waves themselves wont add to the combo, but if you get a high combo counter with EB then the damage multiplier from the combo will affect the wave damage.

It is a great combo to use Surging Dash to hit a number of enemies and then enjoy having the waves from that point on deal extra damage to the enemies they hit.

His kit does synergize quite well.

And while a Slash Dash will take you into the bubble I have yet to have it actually hit the nullifier inside.

And honestly, Excal's ultimate is a ton less powerful than most other ults that hit literally everything around them and have more than just damage on their side.

I mean look at Saryn who can hit everything in a 30 meter radius for 14K damage and stun the enemies for 2 seconds and deals a damage type that deals 75% more damage to a majority of enemies you'll be facing at higher levels.

Compared to that Excals waves in a small arc is rather tame and not that powerful.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Tsukinoki

[Bizzaro21]

And honestly, Excal's ultimate is a ton less powerful than most other ults that hit literally everything around them and have more than just damage on their side.

I mean look at Saryn who can hit everything in a 30 meter radius for 14K damage and stun the enemies for 2 seconds and deals a damage type that deals 75% more damage to a majority of enemies you'll be facing at higher levels.

Compared to that Excals waves in a small arc is rather tame and not that powerful.

i`d like to have mesa instead of saryn, but whatever, I agree to your point, the fact cal is strong doesn`t make him OP, everyone wants our frames to be S#&$, and the enemies to be so badass as they are now, cal is needed to face endgame

[Andruunicul]

Stop complaning ... won't help us at all , Yasai

[Kalvorax]

I dont know why you guys keep thinking a duration build for slash dash helps it....
 

• Maximized Power Duration has no positive effect on this ability.
  • Reduces the cone length to 4.08 meters.
• Maximized Power Range increases the cone length to 28.2 meters.
  • Reduces the base damage to 100.

OT: it would be nice if the combos for exalted blade actually did something (iirc once of the combos does do something at the end, but the wiki doesnt state it) It would also be nice if the sound of Exalted blade did not carry over to other team members.

 

Also, dont forget that DE SHOWCASED the ability AS USE OF THE WAVES NOT the sword.

Edited August 31, 2015 by xcynderx

[Stratego89]

And that is just moving the goalposts of you're argument.

You specifically stated that EB was the only ability that can destroy nullifier bubbles which is wrong.

Whether the other projectile abilities that can damage it are as spammable as the waves is another point entirely and not directly related.

In fact, even Hysteria can destroy the nullifier bubbles if you're careful...

 

So please don't move the goalposts of an argument when people show you're wrong.

 

Actually to your first point the combo multiplier will affect the wave damage.

The waves themselves wont add to the combo, but if you get a high combo counter with EB then the damage multiplier from the combo will affect the wave damage.

It is a great combo to use Surging Dash to hit a number of enemies and then enjoy having the waves from that point on deal extra damage to the enemies they hit.

His kit does synergize quite well.

And while a Slash Dash will take you into the bubble I have yet to have it actually hit the nullifier inside.

And honestly, Excal's ultimate is a ton less powerful than most other ults that hit literally everything around them and have more than just damage on their side.

I mean look at Saryn who can hit everything in a 30 meter radius for 14K damage and stun the enemies for 2 seconds and deals a damage type that deals 75% more damage to a majority of enemies you'll be facing at higher levels.

Compared to that Excals waves in a small arc is rather tame and not that powerful.

My argument? Uh... this is my first post in this thread m8.

I never stated it was the only ability that could damage it... I just said that imo it should not. I already destroy it with my valkyr's hysteria whenever I need to, the difference here being Valkyr's hysteria is a duration ability that costs a LOT of energy to re-enable, whereas Excalibur doesn't suffer if he decides to run in and end the nullifier that way, and he has RANGED attacks. His sword should hurt the bubble. His waves that are pure ability should not.

Yes- yes it is directly related. That's trying to sweep everything that works against your argument under the rug and pretending there's not a giant mound of a carpet in the middle of the room as we have a discussion- it doesn't work. There's this thing called "balance" that you have to take everything into account in order to make work.

 

I never moved the goal post of an argument- this is feedback. They give their ideas, we give our ideas, that's how we all come to a community decision on what we think is best. The goal post is excalibur exalted blade possible changes, which is the exact topic I was on. Also "when people show you're wrong"- again, this is my first time posting in this thread. You are mistaking me for someone else.

 

Did not know this, but my point was the actual combos themselves. Much like how crimson dervish has 3x damage multipliers on certain attacks in the combos, exalted blade's combos should affect the waves to give them varying strength, range, width, shape, direction, etc. Give us a reason to use the combos. You said the combos build up a combo multiplier for more damage through that, but 1. I believe just spamming the waves does the same thing... 2. You can use slash dash as you yourself have pointed out to accomplish the same thing. 3. It doesn't even need more damage to begin with because of how obscenely overpowered it is.

 

Less powerful? More than damage on their side? Ok, let me get this straight Excalibur can spam his exalted blade waves nonstop in every direction for minimal energy and do HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of damage killing literally everything in it's path for ~40m regardless if they are behind walls or not, it can destroy nullifier bubbles like a joke at range, it has enough damage to completely not care about ancient buffs, and has a miniature stun for when you need it- or you can just use his ultra hard stun that is his 2 whenever you want basically because again, you will have no energy issues. Saryn can get a 75% damage bonus with her corrosive, yes. But you can build exalted blade for that same damage type anyways- there's no difference. Saryn stuns and doesn't kill late game, excalibur doesn't need to stun and slaughters everything late game. Excalibur's EB is infinitely more powerful than saryn's Miasma... I don't recall the range of her miasma, but I do not remember it reaching anywhere near 30m. EB reaches ~40 with every single wave that you spam out, doesn't consume obscene amounts of energy, kills whatever you want it to without any question, and can destroy nullifiers. How you see miasma's ~2 second stun (in a smaller range and less time than Radial blind for 2x the energy I might add) as being better than excalibur's ult that kills the world and costs nearly nothing baffles me.

[Bizzaro21]

Less powerful? More than damage on their side? Ok, let me get this straight Excalibur can spam his exalted blade waves nonstop in every direction for minimal energy and do HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of damage killing literally everything in it's path for ~40m regardless if they are behind walls or not, it can destroy nullifier bubbles like a joke at range, it has enough damage to completely not care about ancient buffs, and has a miniature stun for when you need it- or you can just use his ultra hard stun that is his 2 whenever you want basically because again, you will have no energy issues. Saryn can get a 75% damage bonus with her corrosive, yes. But you can build exalted blade for that same damage type anyways- there's no difference. Saryn stuns and doesn't kill late game, excalibur doesn't need to stun and slaughters everything late game. Excalibur's EB is infinitely more powerful than saryn's Miasma... I don't recall the range of her miasma, but I do not remember it reaching anywhere near 30m. EB reaches ~40 with every single wave that you spam out, doesn't consume obscene amounts of energy, kills whatever you want it to without any question, and can destroy nullifiers. How you see miasma's ~2 second stun (in a smaller range and less time than Radial blind for 2x the energy I might add) as being better than excalibur's ult that kills the world and costs nearly nothing baffles me.

the energy drain on EB is high, it`s just counter-able by effeceincy mods which screw over your other abilities, specialization, focusing on one power more than others, also, where u say he does insane damage, I laughed so hard, ancient buffs ruin his spam, a corrupted crewman lvl 50-60 will take 20+ hits to die with the healer`s link, and healer`s aren`t a rare thing to find, so I find it invalid to use ancients as a measuring stick to how strong it is, also, if u don`t use rage, u`ll run out of power in a blink of an eye, and if u don`t use life strike with it, you`ll die from health damage to get power, and to have life strike means one less slot on melee available for damage, meaning less damage output by EB, and as fury is a must to allow the waves to be spammed, another less slot for dmg, even less dmg output, Cal is hard to build and use, I`d expect something good after all this work and time I spent on him, and, for the 10000000000th time, I`ll never understand people who demand for PVE nerfs, if you don`t like sth leave it alone, stay as far away as possible from it, no need to ruin other people`s playstyles and work, I spent 2 formas and a dozen of hours on him.

I`d say, the syndicate effect removal was enough of a nerf, it had a huge impact on EB, justice/purity helped a lot maintain his Health, right now, I run around with my head on fire turning channeling on and off to avoid wasting power and survive

Saryn is useless on endgame? duh, build her for duration if you`re going late game and just laugh as they are stunned and watching u come in with your contagion-ed scindo prime/galatine. also, to add, her total damage output will be the same if u have the same power strength, as the damage is distributed over the ticks, so they take same dmg, while stunned for long, not a nuke build, but safer than nuke build 

[LordChronos]

The ONLY change is that they should add the syndicate mod proc back to exalted blade so skana prime can proc more dps in t4. Otherwise, STOP demanding nerfs....

The ONLY change is that they should add the syndicate mod proc back to exalted blade so skana prime can proc more dps in t4. Otherwise, STOP demanding nerfs....

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

Considering 40+ minutes in T4 survival is a challenge to me as an Excalibur player, I'd like to keep EB as it is. Slash Dash increases wave damage and RB opens finishers. Synergy. I haven't even attempted the raid with lvl 80+ if I can't even deal with lvl 60s without having to spam RB or the waves. 

[LordChronos]

The ONLY change is that they should add the syndicate mod proc back to exalted blade so skana prime can proc more dps in t4. Otherwise, STOP demanding nerfs....

[Tsukinoki]

My argument? Uh... this is my first post in this thread m8.

I never stated it was the only ability that could damage it... I just said that imo it should not. I already destroy it with my valkyr's hysteria whenever I need to, the difference here being Valkyr's hysteria is a duration ability that costs a LOT of energy to re-enable, whereas Excalibur doesn't suffer if he decides to run in and end the nullifier that way, and he has RANGED attacks. His sword should hurt the bubble. His waves that are pure ability should not.

Yes- yes it is directly related. That's trying to sweep everything that works against your argument under the rug and pretending there's not a giant mound of a carpet in the middle of the room as we have a discussion- it doesn't work. There's this thing called "balance" that you have to take everything into account in order to make work.

 

I never moved the goal post of an argument- this is feedback. They give their ideas, we give our ideas, that's how we all come to a community decision on what we think is best. The goal post is excalibur exalted blade possible changes, which is the exact topic I was on. Also "when people show you're wrong"- again, this is my first time posting in this thread. You are mistaking me for someone else.

The first part of my comment was referring to someone else, Trichouette, as you can see that was the user I quoted when I made that part of the reply.

I just happened to quote you in the same post to avoid spamming too many posts when one would do, so the first part of that response has nothing to do with you.

Might want to pay a bit more attention to the quotes and who I was replying to.

 

 

Less powerful? More than damage on their side? Ok, let me get this straight Excalibur can spam his exalted blade waves nonstop in every direction for minimal energy and do HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of damage killing literally everything in it's path for ~40m regardless if they are behind walls or not, it can destroy nullifier bubbles like a joke at range, it has enough damage to completely not care about ancient buffs, and has a miniature stun for when you need it- or you can just use his ultra hard stun that is his 2 whenever you want basically because again, you will have no energy issues. Saryn can get a 75% damage bonus with her corrosive, yes. But you can build exalted blade for that same damage type anyways- there's no difference. Saryn stuns and doesn't kill late game, excalibur doesn't need to stun and slaughters everything late game. Excalibur's EB is infinitely more powerful than saryn's Miasma... I don't recall the range of her miasma, but I do not remember it reaching anywhere near 30m. EB reaches ~40 with every single wave that you spam out, doesn't consume obscene amounts of energy, kills whatever you want it to without any question, and can destroy nullifiers. How you see miasma's ~2 second stun (in a smaller range and less time than Radial blind for 2x the energy I might add) as being better than excalibur's ult that kills the world and costs nearly nothing baffles me.

Few things about this point:

-RB is blocked by walls, Miasma is not.  Meaning that Saryn is a hek of a lot safer when stunning everything around her than Excal is because she doesn't have to expose herself to any danger.

-A maxed out Nuke Build for Saryn costs 65 energy and deals about 14K damage in .5 seconds to everything withing 35 meters and stuns them for 2 seconds (unaffected by duration)

She doesn't need to aim, doesn't need to expose herself to danger in order for the stun to work

Fact is that exalted blade falls of quickly late game, especially the waves which deal mainly slashing damage which is affected the most by enemy armor, seriously nerfing the damage output that he can do.

Meanwhile Saryn is still nuking away and providing small CC at the same time.

The only way to get high damage late game with Excal is to use RB all the time, which very quickly dips into your energy reserves because if you go for maximum efficiency so that you can use EB all the time then your blind will only last for 6 seconds which is no where near enough to kill everything at the higher levels.

If you want a good Radial Blind then you are sacrificing efficiency, and potentially damage, from EB in order to make that work.

Fact is that you can't maximize both and you need both to do much with EB at the higher levels.

So in order to compete with any other nuke frame Excal will be using tons of energy at the higher levels.  Exactly like those nukers.

EDIT:

Also you seem to be completely ignoring how slow the waves from exalted blade are.

Even without a mod like Toxic Flight you can commonly reach a target ahead of your wave you sent out, making it miss quite often at the maximum of its range, giving it an effective range of closer to 25 to 30 meters for actually hitting enemies that aren't moving directly for you.

I've outdamaged and outkilled Excaliburs spamming EB as both Saryn and Mesa, sometimes embarrassingly so.

His ability is far from the be-all-end-all of damaging abilities and can be beaten by another spammer.

Especially if that spammer has CC in the higher levels where damage falls flat.

Because if you focus everything on EB than Excalibur's only CC ability is going to suck.  And the opposite is true if you focus everything into his CC ability so that you remain useful at the higher levels.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Tsukinoki

[LordChronos]

NO! MORE! NERFS!

[YasaiTsume]

Lol all I had in mind was Exalted Blade becoming a spam fest and that doesn't fit the theme of Excalibur .-. So I suggested changing Exalted Blade into a Claymore but go on guys keep the arguments going, in the end Excal is still gonna be the only guy in the game that can Blind people :D 

[Tsukinoki]

Lol all I had in mind was Exalted Blade becoming a spam fest and that doesn't fit the theme of Excalibur .-. So I suggested changing Exalted Blade into a Claymore but go on guys keep the arguments going, in the end Excal is still gonna be the only guy in the game that can Blind people :D 

Actually Mirage can blind even better than Excal can.

For 35 energy (just a streamline mod) you can cast Prism and instantly detonate it to blind everything within 50 meters(maximum range, with maxed narrow minded) for 42 seconds(maximum duration) through walls and ignorring LOS. (meanwhile dropping the maxed narrow minded makes a massive range of 70 meters and a blind duration of 27.5 seconds)

Meanwhile Excal has to deal with LOS/"awareness" with his RB, which can be completely useless depending on the map.

To the main point though:

The only thing that keeps his skill viable is the energy waves as he doesn't have invincibility like Valkyr does with hysteria.  Or the innate life-steal.

He isn't tanky enough to just take a melee weapon without the waves to the higher levels.

And having to rely more on RB (which again has to deal with LOS and becomes very unreliable depending on the map) means that he has even more problems with his energy reserves than he currently does, not to mention that maximizing RB seriously hurts EB and vice versa.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Tsukinoki

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

Leave. Excalibur. The. Hell. Alone.

 

 

 

 

Like seriously, stop asking for Excalibur nerfs.

[Bizzaro21]

Leave. Excalibur. The. Hell. Alone.

 

Like seriously, stop asking for Excalibur nerfs.

^this, basically, I have no idea why cal is so hated by people, Mesa is stronger, Saryn is more durable and is as deadly, like, really, stop trying to nerf killer frames, instead try to add utility to them to make the killing a side job, not the only job they can do

[Tsukinoki]

^this, basically, I have no idea why cal is so hated by people, Mesa is stronger, Saryn is more durable and is as deadly, like, really, stop trying to nerf killer frames, instead try to add utility to them to make the killing a side job, not the only job they can do

And if killing is going to be the only job that they can do they should be damn well good at it.