Mag's Shield Polarize Overused

[tinyranitar]

Frost got his share of "hate" as well (for reasons. We all spoke about the issues and didn't play them down.).

Evryone was supporting the effort without bashing the OP or keepin it low...

You definitly don't have to go trough a nerf but noone will actually admit the issues till it happens. That's what it has come to.

Set her in flames so she can finally rise from her ashes...

This post makes no sense whatsoever. I don't see the reasoning in this unless you count the "but... but..." as points.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

This post makes no sense whatsoever. I don't see the reasoning in this unless you count the "but... but..." as points.

There was litteraly a 13 pages long thread about how much frost SUCKS before the buff was even considered. Open a thread and adress issues mag has and you'll see what i mean. People AVOID the topic mag since a rework could lead to a nerf to SP. This ability has become the only tool people even consider using at all and they defend it.

They defend-the broken state she is in- -to preserve SP-.

A actuall buff will never happen if this keeps up. That's how it is. You'll have to kill her to get anyones support at this point.

Edited September 17, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[tinyranitar]

There was litteraly a 13 pages long thread about how much frost SUCKS before the buff was even considered. Open a thread and adress issues mag has and you'll see what i mean. People AVOID the topic mag since a rework could lead to a nerf to SP. This ability has become the only tool people even consider using at all and they defend it.

They defend-the broken state she is in- -to preserve SP-.

A actuall buff will never happen if this keeps up. That's how it is. You'll have to kill her to get anyones support at this point.

If people were to ignore this post, there wouldn't be a 13 page long discussion. As I stated above, all this rage is due to OP only calling nerf instead of a rework, with a seems-to-be-salty-to-me reason that the top kills are belong to Mag. He never said anything about mag rework or that. He calls nerf. Period.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

If people were to ignore this post, there wouldn't be a 13 page long discussion. As I stated above, all this rage is due to OP only calling nerf instead of a rework, with a seems-to-be-salty-to-me reason that the top kills are belong to Mag. He never said anything about mag rework or that. He calls nerf. Period.

A nerf to a infinite scaling second ability evry single mag player clings to and abuses (yea, abuses. This is the single most overpowered ability in the game. Forget mesa or saryn)

They cling to SP and ignore evrything else. Be it buff attempts, reworks or even the truth about her situation cause theyr totally fine with a frame that offers nothing but infinite scaling damage.

A nerf definitly wouldn't hurt her. If only to set the base for a rework. Just giving her a rework on the useless parts would definitly be better but lets be honest there...whats the chance with that kind of community?

Edited September 17, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[-N7-Leonhart]

If people were to ignore this post, there wouldn't be a 13 page long discussion. As I stated above, all this rage is due to OP only calling nerf instead of a rework, with a seems-to-be-salty-to-me reason that the top kills are belong to Mag. He never said anything about mag rework or that. He calls nerf. Period.

 

Please, can someone close this thread? Too much flamming and hating, the point about her skill was about cleared and -BM-StormVanguard seens to not understand it. It generate more attention uneeded and more hate. Just close this thread, please, someone?

 

And it sounds to me like you want to defend the Bots users that abuse Mag and SP, since I never see you guys mentioning it.

 

If my initial approach to the problem at hand was so wrong, why don't I see you staring threads that say that unnatural spawn rates are the true problem and should be fixed above all? It's simple, you want to keep everything as is. If I would have not taken action against it, it seems like no one would.

[Kolos1001]

Thread has become completely toxic. Needs to be locked. 

[Aoden]

No.

 

Want to know why shield polarize is used so often? Its a utility.

 

Utterly wrecks corpus, but it also repairs allied shields. This makes it very useful.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Aoden

[Djego27]

A nerf to a infinite scaling second ability evry single mag player clings to and abuses (yea, abuses. This is the single most overpowered ability in the game. Forget mesa or saryn)

They cling to SP and ignore evrything else. Be it buff attempts, reworks or even the truth about her situation cause theyr totally fine with a frame that offers nothing but infinite scaling damage.

A nerf definitly wouldn't hurt her. If only to set the base for a rework. Just giving her a rework on the useless parts would definitly be better but lets be honest there...whats the chance with that kind of community?

 

There is actually a lot to look for with shield polarise at high levels. It is not something that is just spam able for the effect(outside of low levels, same as with other dps frames). Nullifiers, eximus or healers will cancel the effect, what leaves you without shields(eximus/healers) or no damage at all(nullifiers) and does nothing when you hit the button again. Outside of high levels(what is not done by the people that get the massive kill count and I think not point of this topic) other dps frames do the same, with the advantage that they can just press the button again when there was a eximus/healer, since they will still do damage with that, different to mag. At high levels, a mag just spamming 2 will be your worst enemy(if you have more then one mag on Trition and go beyond L100 you can see this very easy, even more so if the other mag runs less then 200% power strength, at what point it mostly drains the shields while leaving lots of leftovers with tons of HP to kill and the other mag with no damage at all).

 

I think people should really put her mag at least up against L150+, with the eximus, nullifier and healer(void only) spawn rate to  judge how powerful the ability is and how bad things can go if you press 2 before taking out key targets yourself or when you have to use it blind via enemy sense what is a must have on mag.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Djego27

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

There is actually a lot to look for with shield polarise at high levels. It is not something that is just spam able for the effect(outside of low levels, same as with other dps frames). Nullifiers, eximus or healers will cancel the effect, what leaves you without shields(eximus/healers) or no damage at all(nullifiers) and does nothing when you hit the button again. Outside of high levels(what is not done by the people that get the massive kill count and I think not point of this topic) other dps frames do the same, with the advantage that they can just press the button again when there was a eximus/healer, since they will still do damage with that, different to mag. At high levels, a mag just spamming 2 will be your worst enemy(if you have more then one mag on Trition and go beyond L100 you can see this very easy, even more so if the other mag runs less then 200% power strength, at what point it mostly drains the shields while leaving lots of leftovers with tons of HP to kill and the other mag with no damage at all).

I think people should really put her mag at least up against L150+, with the eximus, nullifier and healer(void only) spawn rate to judge how powerful the ability is and how bad things can go if you press 2 before taking out key targets yourself or when you have to use it blind via enemy sense what is a must have on mag.

Oh, you mean like evry single other frame? Guess what, mag+frost or (pro tipp) limbo= fatality+perfect defense. Only that no other frame is able to litteraly oneshot lvl150-9999 enemys.

Don't even try. Seriously.

Edited September 18, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[tinyranitar]

So you are flawing my logic now saying that I support botting, while I clearly not? Stop putting words in my mouth.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

No.

Want to know why shield polarize is used so often? Its a utility.

Utterly wrecks corpus, but it also repairs allied shields. This makes it very useful.

Best one so far lmao.

[--Q--AFKrasul]

All I can say is shhhhhhh! To those that know what I'm talking about wink :)

[(PSN)crow5716]

This is classic. Anytime someone sees frames killing a bunch of people they complain about it.

 

I loved this guys comment. It's literally made me laugh out loud...

Really? Mag got a heavy hit from nerfhammer and you want to nerf the last useful ability? why not remove all powers from all frames and remove damage from all weapons and make the only way to kill a enemy by slaping in the face, with the damage of that being -18.....WHY ASK NERFS FOR THINGS A PvE game, why not buff the underwhelming content, so we don't need to spam one ability

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

This is classic. Anytime someone sees frames killing a bunch of people they complain about it.

I loved this guys comment. It's literally made me laugh out loud...

Well he has a point in evry aspect. Mag was nerfed several times allready, what she needs is not perse a nerf but a rework to give her back some use... evryone is clinging to SP cause there's litteraly nothing else to her.

For the content, yes and no. Having one ability that does percentual damage while evrything else does numerical is just straight Overpowered without a limit but most other nerfs basicly root in the unbalance between potential singletarget DD's vs crowd DD's, in a game where's nothing but crowds rly. Most damage and range win. Easy as that.

Change the basic concept, add content to rly support tanks and singletarget DD's just as much as crowds and you don't need to flat them out. Make 1. Abilitys MUCH stronger so you get a choice to act dependingly and add a propper aggro system.

Making WF into a propper mmorpg would've probably consumed less of the time they wasted on buffing and nerfing stuff all of the time.

[optyk]

One thing I keep noticing lately. So I had a look at the Leaderboards, specifically on the top kills amount for this week.

What I get to see is that the top player has ~1,5 milions kills (yes, for this week ONLY) and the next 3 after him all have over 1 milion kills themselves.

At this point, I already figured it out without even checking. After checking, I confirmed that their most used frame was Mag, and like 95% of their kills were all corpus.

Conclusion: Mag's Shield Polarize is overused. Although everyone cries out loud about Mesa's Pacemaker, that can't be even close to the "one button press, kill them all" that is Shield Polarize. Since this is so overused, maybe adding LoS requirement to it may make everyone less inclined to just sit somewhere and press 2 FTW.

 

 

EDIT: With the help of some proactive players that did not think to bash me instantly, I finally cracked this problem open. The exploit is done by players using macros for Mag skills "2" and "1" in missions with unnatural spawn rates. Like this they can effectively never touch the keyboard and get the absolute best results in the game and tons of loot at the same time.

 

Hmm.

 

Can I borrow this mentality for Star Trek Online? It would be perfect. Just swap out Mag with Escorts and swap out Shield Polarize with Anti-Proton Weapons, you can keep the whole 'anti-marco' thing as well because they are used.

 

To give you a solid 1:1 relevant, serious comparison, all Escort class captains do is load up the highest DPS capable ship, with the highest Crit-Chance/Damage weapons and then "park n' shoot" -they put every ability on a macro, push 1-2 buttons while stationary(in a spaceship), kill tons of enemies in one specific map, at little to no risk, haul in the phat lewtz and post their DPS parse numbers on a leaderboard (top players in the leaderboard are Escorts). Sound familiar Advocate? It does not end with just STO either. Weird tho huh? Shall I use Destiny as the next example? C'mon, do I even need to?

 

It's apparent you like to follow leaderboards, cool, but, it seems you have a different approach on how to climb them. To justify this, you claim to have found the dilemma(without even checking -very impressive Tenno) that everyone else has somehow overlooked.

 

Heres the reality: 

 

You didn't 'crack' any problem open, sorry. You have not discovered any new trick/exploit/meta that has not been known/discussed already whether it's in Warframe or a different game. Please, use the Internet for researching information and not just entertainment. Video games are not some new trend waiting to be discovered.

 

Lets not use the LoS suggestion; because DE sprinkled that here and there it's now the solution to other issues? Nah.

 

Most importantly, the suggestions on how you think adding something to a game will make players be 'less inclined' to play a certain way because you simply disagree with it? Frankly, I'm quite damn tired of players like yourself, preaching how to play or making me change my gameplay over and over and over again; I've been patient/open minded enough with that nonsense, but enough is enough. -DE already does that frequently with the 'Beta' crutch and their goofy indecisiveness (that same indecisiveness that ruined their Star Trek 2013 PC game). You and your ilk are specifically making me not want to spend money and time on this game -so whos bullying who now?

 

Look, you're not getting "bashed". You're getting what you asked for when you posted what you did, in the manner you did. Fair is fair. Next time structure it as a discussion to what could be a possible issue and ask for constructive feedback.

[Azamagon]

To be fair, Shield Polarize is a tad strong against shielded enemies AND her other abilities are too weak, in general.

Instead of making her purely anti-Corpus, why not make her more generally viabile by spreading out the power among her abilities?

So here are some ideas:

* Shield Polarize's damage is lessened, but when restoring ally shields that also deals damage and knocks enemies down around the affected allies. That makes it more generally useful and less of a pure "anti-shields" ability, giving it offensive use even on levels without shielded enemies.

* Shield Transference also gives Overshields to allies.

* Bullet Attractor energycost reduced to 35, gives perfect punchthrough towards the target, the sphere can be deactivated at any time, and when the target dies or the ability runs out or the ability is manually deactivated then the sphere explodes in a magnetic+shrapnel fashion dealing 75/150/225/300 Magnetic damage + 10/20/30/40% of the BA-target's damage taken as Puncture damage, in an AoE the same size as the sphere.

* Crush damage converted to Finisher damage. Crush ALSO affects all enemies inside a Bullet Attractor sphere (ability synergy, giving Crush long range casting potential!). As added amusment/power, when Crush's final damage is over, it could also take all collected enemies and corpses and smash them together (like making them into a big ball) a few meters in front of Mag's crosshairs, dealing 20/30/40/50 extra Impact damage to all enemies in that area for each enemy lifted by crush (dead or alive), AND potentially furthermore, launches the collected enemies and corpses away in Mag's crosshair direction, dealing more impact damage to whatever they might collide with (this "launch" sounds more like a new potential augment?)

* Greedy Pull also pulls out magazines from ranged enemies, forcing them to reload as they get up as well as creating random magazine pickups from each affected unit, which are pulled towards Mag (once per enemy, or at least just one time before they reload again).

How about that? :)

Edited September 20, 2015 by Azamagon

[Dubsurf123]

I agree if mag was actually POWERFUL, but shield polarize is her only strong power right now. If anything the rest of her powers need buff and then might actually CONSIDER nerfing that power. What's wrong? Can't deal with the fact that I'm replenishing the teams shields while utilizing something that kills corpus by the thousands? You must be the worst "team" player in warframe to think "he's stealing my kills, she needs nerf." 

 

Stay the hell away from mag, she's been abused enough

[Oishii]

As a mag lover I got to agree with the OP. I know the natural reaction is she is weak she doesn't need a nerf. This is half true, her shield polarize is stupidly OP against corpus. This is pretty much a band aid to make her viable. How about we tone done mag against corpus and buff her against everything else. This isn't a black and white world. You can perform more than one change.

[Boltwin]

I agree if mag was actually POWERFUL, but shield polarize is her only strong power right now. If anything the rest of her powers need buff and then might actually CONSIDER nerfing that power. What's wrong? Can't deal with the fact that I'm replenishing the teams shields while utilizing something that kills corpus by the thousands? You must be the worst "team" player in warframe to think "he's stealing my kills, she needs nerf." 

 

Stay the hell away from mag, she's been abused enough

when you kill bursas with a 13energy ability. You can't call that balance.

[optyk]

As a mag lover I got to agree with the OP. I know the natural reaction is she is weak she doesn't need a nerf. This is half true, her shield polarize is stupidly OP against corpus. This is pretty much a band aid to make her viable. How about we tone done mag against corpus and buff her against everything else. This isn't a black and white world. You can perform more than one change.

 

Whats 'stupidly OP' is how the factions are all mob swam mentality based. So when you see 10+ Shield Drones linked to a ton of other mobs that also do some kind of hive mind style AOE effect, we need an ability(not weapon) like Shield Polarize to counter it. We as players are allowed to have a hard-counter to the AI -it's ok, it does not mean anyone is cheating/exploiting or something is OP.

 

Last good recent example was the latest Proxy Alert for the 25 Rare-5 Cores. I was fighting nothing but swarms of Shield Drones buffing numerous Ospreys while Isolator Bursa's and Hyenas jumped in. Thats not tactics, thats derpy AI. They dont use cover, they dont take advantage of certain spots on the maps, they just run and derp right at you or the objective.

 

IF DE were to do a Faction 2.0 on Corpus and make them less horde and more tactical minded, then sure, Shield Polarize would be too much. But thats not the reality. DE just keeps throwing nullifier type abilities at us instead of tactics. So, we fight derp -with derp and call it "Space Ninjas".

 

And why average out Mag, or any other Frame, to be a jack of all trades and master of none? We have so much of that already. Do we honestly need or want 24+ Frames that all do the same thing but with a different look. C'mon now, the playerbase cannot be that naive, can it?

 

Not to mention Warframe has grown to embrace the Derp as it has aged. And by that I mean it's a fluffy, pickup and play, easier than most, feel good type game. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's a truth that needs to be factored in. Theres nothing "Hardcore" with Warframe -except the time/grind walls ;)

[HAYABU5A]

why is everyone so hard on OP ?

 

the issue is not nerfing mag. OP isnt saying to nerf mag for the sake of it she just happens to have the mechanics that are best exploitable atm via macroing

 

the issue is people not actually playing the game like they are suppose to 

instead they log in to the game with their macros set up and go on autopilot like its some kind of mining operation 

you see them in your squad but they are not actually playing with u, they might as well be just another npc 

 

do u really want semi-bots in warframe playing with u ? think about it 

[-N7-Leonhart]

why is everyone so hard on OP ?

 

the issue is not nerfing mag. OP isnt saying to nerf mag for the sake of it she just happens to have the mechanics that are best exploitable atm via macroing

 

the issue is people not actually playing the game like they are suppose to 

instead they log in to the game with their macros set up and go on autopilot like its some kind of mining operation 

you see them in your squad but they are not actually playing with u, they might as well be just another npc 

 

do u really want semi-bots in warframe playing with u ? think about it 

 

What I have been saying all along indeed. I don't care for Mag, but the Bots that auto-farm 24/7 by themselves is definitely wrong.

 

Seems like Mesa is getting changes to prevent things on this approximative tangent. Hell, I may actually use Mesa after that, thing that I haven't done in a very long while. Would be nice if Mag also escapes the AFK FTW thing.

[Kolos1001]

why is everyone so hard on OP ?

 

the issue is not nerfing mag. OP isnt saying to nerf mag for the sake of it she just happens to have the mechanics that are best exploitable atm via macroing

 

the issue is people not actually playing the game like they are suppose to 

instead they log in to the game with their macros set up and go on autopilot like its some kind of mining operation 

you see them in your squad but they are not actually playing with u, they might as well be just another npc 

 

do u really want semi-bots in warframe playing with u ? think about it 

Because OP made a "nerf mag" thread instead of a "fix botting" thread. Then he went back and edited everything and flip flopped his story. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

How can one even defend a ability that can be used to bot into endless gameplay by litteraly breaking evry set boundary the game throws at you?...

I get that this is litteraly her last string but absolutely NOONE, not only not the OP, put anything productive on the table but instead choose to defend the one most o.p. ability in the game...

Take evry nerf thread of the last years, put them all on a pile and they won't even scrath what SP is capable of...

I RLY hope noone here has plans to complain about any other ability in the near future cause doing so would make you one hell of a hypocrate.

Edited September 22, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Kolos1001]

How can one even defend a ability that can be used to bot into endless gameplay by litteraly breaking evry set boundary the game throws at you?...

I get that this is litteraly her last string but absolutely NOONE, not only not the OP, put anything productive on the table but instead choose to defend the one most o.p. ability in the game...

Take evry nerf thread of the last years, put them all on a pile and they won't even scrath what SP is capable of...

I RLY hope noone here has plans to complain about any other ability in the near future cause doing so would make you one hell of a hypocrate.

Go do a raid with 8 mags and tell me how it goes.