IL0veDureX Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Hi, so as i was in my atempts to maximize my framerate, i noticed that "hey! why am i still getting a min.10 / av. 15 / max. 32 FPS on my ship with all settings at low and using DX10?!..." that was before i rememberd to turn off my dual graphics configuration and BOOM min. 40 / av. 60 / max. 120 FPS in my ship! That is in my ship, but things get a liiiittle messed up while in mission, sutch as in SOLO mode having more FPS then in PUBLIC (not bad connection (av. 30 ms)). I Like to mention that while in DX11 i notice my PC getting too hot for my liking, so i play in DX10 to keep it cooler. so, my question is... is one of my video cards broken? or is the game not optimized for dual graphics configuration? my personal opinion, as a PC enthusiast, is that the game is not optimized Here is my pc setup: HP Laptop AMD dual core APU 4400M 2.7GHz (3.2GHz max turbo) AMD 7520G + 7670M dual graphics (3045 MB GDDR5) 4GB RAM Windows 10 with DX11.2 (dont ask me why...) Resuming of FPS (liset/ship): Config. FPS min. av. max. DX11 + dual graphics 9 15 35 DX11 - dual graphics 30 40 80 DX10 + dual graphics 10 15 30 DX10 - dual graphics 30 70 120 i did not include DX9 in this tests as it seems to get some random numbers from 9 to 30 FPS in the same place in the same time, with the same configuration (dramatic FPS drops) (i DID NOT use any kind of bentchmark i simply used the in-game FPS conter: min.= walking from upper side to the lower side of the ship (when the door opens) av.=walking arrond the ship / opeing navigation / opening market / opening foundry (in this order) max.= looking outsider of the ship from the left side of navigation (looking up)) please help me understand better this problem and let me know if other people are having a similar issue. Edited October 18, 2015 by IL0veDureX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerandom17 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 You can't game with a laptop and call yourself and enthusiast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL0veDureX Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) You can't game with a laptop and call yourself and enthusiast. well.. i think can.. actualy... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enthusiast yep, yes i can Edited October 18, 2015 by IL0veDureX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakuza963 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Maybe it has something to do with having two different video cards? I was under the impression you need to use the same card if you use two or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kihana Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 There are many games that run better on a single card than two. Warframe is one of them. You can't game with a laptop and call yourself and enthusiast. Load of crap. Stop baiting. I can sit on the beach and play Warframe on batteries with my G750. It runs surprisingly smooth. Most high end laptop owners I know also have an uber tower at home. Maybe it has something to do with having two different video cards? I was under the impression you need to use the same card if you use two or more. It's cpu graphics + gpu. Techs been around a while now, but ymmv per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlception Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 ok ok moving on.... i am not going in on this S#&$ , i know to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL0veDureX Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Maybe it has something to do with having two different video cards? I was under the impression you need to use the same card if you use two or more. i could not change the hardware specs even if i wanted to (exept for the RAM and a 2.5" HDD/SSD)... its a laptop Edited October 13, 2015 by IL0veDureX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Linkski Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Here is my pc setup: HP Laptop AMD dual core APU 4400M 2.7GHz (3.2GHz max turbo) AMD 7520G + 7670M dual graphics (3045 MB GDDR5) 4GB RAM Windows 10 with DX11.2 (dont ask me why...) Could you please tell us the model of laptop you are using? The models I am finding with your same AMD Radeon HD 7520G/7670M Dual GPU setup only have 1GB of dedicated DDR3 memory. This would likely explain why you are seeing these issues. Also you appear to be using a 2.7GHz CPU and Warframe's minspec is 2.2Ghz, so while you may not be getting the best performance I am not surprised to see approx. 30FPS with DX10. There are many missing variables that can have a strong impact on your CPU (mission type, Warframe used, how many players in squad, whether you are host or client, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhundis Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Only 4g of ram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL0veDureX Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Could you please tell us the model of laptop you are using? The models I am finding with your same AMD Radeon HD 7520G/7670M Dual GPU setup only have 1GB of dedicated DDR3 memory. This would likely explain why you are seeing these issues. Also you appear to be using a 2.7GHz CPU and Warframe's minspec is 2.2Ghz, so while you may not be getting the best performance I am not surprised to see approx. 30FPS with DX10. There are many missing variables that can have a strong impact on your CPU (mission type, Warframe used, how many players in squad, whether you are host or client, etc.) you are right... i only have 1GB of dedicated DDR3... but in "dxdiag" it shows 3! http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03532834 Only 4g of ram? ye.. i couldnt afford more at the time ;_; Edited October 14, 2015 by IL0veDureX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athros Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 you are right... i only have 1GB of dedicated DDR3... but in "dxdiag" it shows 3! http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03532834 It's counted as 3GB because the graphic core inside the APU 'borrows' 2GB from your main memory. Yeah, dxdiag always do that when any iGPU/APU involved. Maybe (just maybe, since I'm no expert) that's the reason for the FPS drop; your memory's bandwidth struggled between the usage from your system and graphic usage. Also, AMD APUs usually struggle themeselves when handling games that requires hefty CPU and GPU processing power like WF without sufficient memory, added with syncing between APU's graphic core and the discrete GPU. I can only suggest you to, well, buy another RAM to get it to at least 8GB. Maybe, juuuust maybe, it'll alleviate your problem. If it's not, well, you got an extra 4GB of RAM to spare for any other things : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL0veDureX Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) It's counted as 3GB because the graphic core inside the APU 'borrows' 2GB from your main memory. Yeah, dxdiag always do that when any iGPU/APU involved. Maybe (just maybe, since I'm no expert) that's the reason for the FPS drop; your memory's bandwidth struggled between the usage from your system and graphic usage. Also, AMD APUs usually struggle themeselves when handling games that requires hefty CPU and GPU processing power like WF without sufficient memory, added with syncing between APU's graphic core and the discrete GPU. I can only suggest you to, well, buy another RAM to get it to at least 8GB. Maybe, juuuust maybe, it'll alleviate your problem. If it's not, well, you got an extra 4GB of RAM to spare for any other things : ) ye i thought that too, but i think i'll be better with just buing a new pc rather then upgrading this one... (good thinking there... but MAYBE, just MAYBE, if WF Works on a DX12 version we would get more FPS (well.. not me, since my GPU cant handle DX12) // but anyway... "SHOTS FIERD, SHOTS FIERD") Edited October 18, 2015 by IL0veDureX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythadragon Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Even if AMD dual graphics (APU + discrete card) is working properly, it doesn't deliver a better experience and is not worth messing with... It increases frame time latency (input lag!) and extra frames per second are often partial slivers of frames that aren't actually meaningful. tldr conclusion: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-graphics-crossfire-benchmark,3583-10.html See frametime graph: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-graphics-crossfire-benchmark,3583-3.html Edited October 19, 2015 by Pythadragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL0veDureX Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Even if AMD dual graphics (APU + discrete card) is working properly, it doesn't deliver a better experience and is not worth messing with... It increases frame time latency (input lag!) and extra frames per second are often partial slivers of frames that aren't actually meaningful. tldr conclusion: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-graphics-crossfire-benchmark,3583-10.html See frametime graph: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-graphics-crossfire-benchmark,3583-3.html guess i purchased my PC in a bad time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythadragon Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) guess i purchased my PC in a bad time.. Only very recently has laptop gaming really gotten very good. You may not have had many options, therefore that was the best choice at the time. Things have only recently changed because companies finally put money into developing cooling solutions for laptops that can dissipate the heat from beefy discrete graphics cards. Heck, Nvidia desktop 980 cards are now/soon to be fitted in laptops. Specific desktop 980 in laptop showcase. Edited October 21, 2015 by Pythadragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nep_Blanc Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) my personal opinion, as a PC enthusiast, is that the game is not optimized Here is my pc setup: HP Laptop AMD dual core APU 4400M 2.7GHz (3.2GHz max turbo) AMD 7520G + 7670M dual graphics (3045 MB GDDR5) 4GB RAM Windows 10 with DX11.2 (dont ask me why...) Resuming of FPS (liset/ship): Config. FPS min. av. max. DX11 + dual graphics 9 15 35 DX11 - dual graphics 30 40 80 DX10 + dual graphics 10 15 30 DX10 - dual graphics 30 70 120 Well game is perfectly fine your laptop just sucs balls and is not capable of carrying this game good enough for you to get great fps. Get this and you will likely not lagg in warframe. Here the specs of my system Called "the Beast" I have an CM Storm Trooper build with lots of nice hardware Here the specs: MSI Z97 Gaming 5 Motherboard Intel Core I7 4790k CPU running on 4.8 GHz Antec Kuhler H2O 920 Water Cooling MSI 4GB D5 X GTX970 Gaming 4G Graphics card Crucial 32 GB DDR3-1600 RAM DIMM Memory. 250GB Crucial SSD . 1TB Western Digital Blue HDD. Cooler Master G750M, 750 Watt PSU 240 GB Hitachi HDD for recording (If I use it). Roccat Ryos MK Pro Keyboard With Cherry MK Blue swithches. Sharkoon Drakonia Black Gaming Mouse. PS3 Webcam because it could see with low light conditions And at least 3 screens one 1080P Monitor and 2 smaller ones (HP branded). Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords Edited October 26, 2015 by TheRoaringLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athros Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Well game is perfectly fine your laptop just sucs balls and is not capable of carrying this game good enough for you to get great fps. Get this and you will likely not lagg in warframe. Here the specs of my system Called "the Beast" I have an CM Storm Trooper build with lots of nice hardware Here the specs: MSI Z97 Gaming 5 Motherboard Intel Core I7 4790k CPU running on 4.8 GHz Antec Kuhler H2O 920 Water Cooling MSI 4GB D5 X GTX970 Gaming 4G Graphics card Crucial 32 GB DDR3-1600 RAM DIMM Memory. 250GB Crucial SSD . 1TB Western Digital Blue HDD. Cooler Master G750M, 750 Watt PSU 240 GB Hitachi HDD for recording (If I use it). Roccat Ryos MK Pro Keyboard With Cherry MK Blue swithches. Sharkoon Drakonia Black Gaming Mouse. PS3 Webcam because it could see with low light conditions And at least 3 screens one 1080P Monitor and 2 smaller ones (HP branded). Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords And that my friend, is the very definition of overkill. Besides, if he had the fund to bought that kind of monster in the first place, I'm sure he wouldn't ended up with that laptop for sure. And it's not about 'laptop that sucs balls', it's about how can you optimize the game with that kind of system (AMD APU+GPU / Hybrid Crossfire). [size=1]Because we, lowly laptop users, have some bills to paid with our meager fund.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nep_Blanc Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) And that my friend, is the very definition of overkill. Besides, if he had the fund to bought that kind of monster in the first place, I'm sure he wouldn't ended up with that laptop for sure. And it's not about 'laptop that sucs balls', it's about how can you optimize the game with that kind of system (AMD APU+GPU / Hybrid Crossfire). Because we, lowly laptop users, have some bills to paid with our meager fund. Okay first I bet ya that his laptop costed him enough to get at least a decent gaming rig. Generally said Laptops are slower and overheat more commonly, plus they cost more for less performance. Second It is not overkill at all, this rig seems overkill compared to his laptop, some guys have a overkill rig that is leages faster. This is only a small representation of a medium/high rig, specs wise. only the ram is a bit overkill. This is mainly a mainstream pc and even I have laggs on warframe with this rig so just saying, but those laggs are on the most extreme situations. Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords Edited October 29, 2015 by TheRoaringLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athros Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Okay first I bet ya that his laptop costed him enough to get at least a decent gaming rig. Generally said Laptops are slower and overheat more commonly, plus they cost more for less performance. Second It is not overkill at all, this rig seems overkill compared to his laptop, some guys have a overkill rig that is leages faster. This is only a small representation of a medium/high rig, specs wise. only the ram is a bit overkill. This is mainly a mainstream pc and even I have laggs on warframe with this rig so just saying, but those laggs are on the most extreme situations. Chao, The Roaring Lion Warlord of Shadow Lords Comparing a mere low-to-mid level laptop (which is probably around $500) with that towering (and drool-inducing, seriously. I really want a rig like yours) monster is an overkill. Yes, the cost to performance ratio of a laptop is less than normal tower with the same performance (and yeah, you could get a decent spec with that budget), but you forgot the foremost advantage of laptops; mobility. People who own laptop have their own reason for choosing it, but most of the time, the main reason is that; they need a system that they could bring anywhere. Normal tower wouldn't let you do that. But both of us has digressed quite a bit; as my prev. post, this thread is not about comparing rigs to laptops. It's about finding the reason why dual GPU solution on OP's laptop is kinda wonky, and the way to optimize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) my guess is that running in Dual Graphics mode (using the iGPU i guess? based on that Framerate though, it seems like Warframe is defaulting to the iGPU instead of the dedicated GPU - you can fix that in your Video Driver settings) is using up more shared RAM than you'd be using otherwise, causing the system to be completely starved on RAM and having much of the Game / Video data being shunted to Page File. i can definitely see this happening since the Notebook has 4 gigs. you can probably find another 4 gigs to throw in the Notebook for relatively low cost (maybe $40 tops) and see if that helps (it should). but even if it doesn't, you'll still probably be glad to have more Memory anyways, so win-win. also, but not directly related to the problem here, the Processor is quite meh. it's okay but still meh. would primarily contribute towards minimum and average performance. which is why in your Liset and playing Solo your performance is always much better than when playing with others. more of the map active and syncing the network data drags down performance. i would avoid Hosting if possible to reduce the load you yourself experience. It's counted as 3GB because the graphic core inside the APU 'borrows' 2GB from your main memory. Yeah, dxdiag always do that when any iGPU/APU involved. not only with iGPU's - Windows does that normally. -snip- i know you were just looking for an excuse to be elitist and d... stroke by firing random shots into the air to hope you hit the problem, but doing it on purpose doesn't make it more okay. Edited October 29, 2015 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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