Valkyr Is A Tank! No She Is A Berserker! No Shes Maiwaifu!

[TangyBlueBerry]

Click bait tile aside lets talk about Valkyr just like everyone else.

The whole "she is immortal hysteria OP" has been talked way too much and everyone ether wants a huge nerf, a total rework again, or to leave her as is because she is their favorite.

What I want to know how people can say "she is not supposed to be a tank, she is suppsoed to be a berserker" goign around.

I agree she is a berserker, but why is being a berserker mean she can't tank damage? How else would she survive in late game as a melee only frame?

Berserkers in games are often depicted as warriors who are more offensive than defensive, while tanks are shown to be defensive over offensive. However this doesn't mean they each sacrafice the other. In several games I have played, a good tank class can take damage as well as dish it out when needed with hard heavy blows. Only thing that would change for a berserker would be adding more speed to their fury of rageful attacks, as well as a more reckless nature of charging in and using overwhelming force over any other strategy. However they still can survive in order to remain so offensive.

Contrary to popular belief, a berserker in norse mythology were not shirtless men rushing into battle only to get stabed in the chest. Rather simply warriors who went into a trace of uncontralable fury of rage int he battlefield and would not yeild till the enemy was defeted. However they did often times wear actual armor and use shields to protect themselves, although many would say they wore light armor to remain agile and fierce in battle.

Valkyr's Hysteria already has a similar mechanic to resemble a berserker, when she exists Hysteria she recieves 7.5% of the total damage she had taken for every enemy within 5 meters, meaning she would recieve damage if she did not do what berserkers are known for, killing everything. So she already fills that role as berserker. It is only in video games where we have a "health" system were someone implamented the "the lowerer my health is, the harder I hit" mechanic berserkers have been known in video games.

So here is a stupid personal idea on how to help releave all the "Valkyr too OP please nerf" rather than removing ehr invinsibility, we allow her to keep it, however we increase the risk of enemies being neearby and the store damage she recieves. Instead of only recieving it when she leaves hysteria, each enemy she is near her will recieve an individual timer, if that enemy has been around Valk for longer than say 8 seconds unaffected by duration mods, she will recieve the 7.5% of damage she has taken for that single enemy, if more enemeis remine near her for the duration of 8 seconds, she will recieve the damage of all of them each. This would also mean we would need to increase the range of what is considered "nearby" by a certain amount, say around 10-15 meters (she is still melee it can't be too far that she can't run up to it and kill it) and make this number unaffected by mods, so you can't increase it's range nor decrease it so Narrow Minded doesn't not become a double benifit.

"Now wait a minute internet Valkyr fanboy defender, Valkyr's damage output is insanely powerful and she can easily kill things within less than 8 seconds, so she will still remain OP, please nerf again"

Well dear forum rageboy, the point is not to render her useless in higher level ether. 8 seconds total can be pretty devastating in the time it takes for her to clear out a mod of enemeis and get to every single one within range and melee all of them at much higher levels when you wont be so able to easily 1 shot everything.

"But wait fellow Valkyr waifu lover, if it takes her 8 seconds to recieve damage from nearby enemies and she can't kill all of them, how are we suppsoed to survive now?"

Well one, try not to be surrounded too much, second we add an extra mechanic to Paralyzis and Warcry. Enemies hit by Paralyzis will have their individual 8 seconds reset as they have been stuned in fear by Valkyr's rage and gives her a boost of adrelanine of confidence. And warcry will slow down the 8 second timer by the % of the slow. Say her warcry slows enemeis by 50%, then the timer will slow down so it will last 12 seconds till the damage is recieved.

This forum post was brought to you by total bordome within my economics class, so please forgive any spelling mistakes or any inconsistent thought paterns. For I have had my brain cells slowly fade as my proffeser struggles to form a complete sentance.

[R34LM]

Frankly, I don't see how she is much different that what she was before. She has the same amount as god mode, really, she just does more damage.

 

"It isn't balance when you can go into a room and mash E for 45 min and not be damaged". True, but Loki has been doing the same thing since day one, and no changes have been made.

[Dillon_J]

inb4 merge

[Datsher]

"It isn't balance when you can go into a room and mash E for 45 min and not be damaged". True, but Loki has been doing the same thing since day one, and no changes have been made.

Though you could argue that loki can be damaged.

[AlienTetris]

Though you could argue that loki can be damaged.

You can also argue any Magnetic proc knocks her out of her ult

[Datsher]

You can also argue any Magnetic proc knocks her out of her ult

You can also argue that I like writing stories and only post outside of off-topic to farm posts. Also you are correct.

[Man_In_Suitcase]

 

"It isn't balance when you can go into a room and mash E for 45 min and not be damaged". True, but Loki has been doing the same thing since day one, and no changes have been made.

 

But isn't the Grinner getting new unit which will be able to detect Loki's invisibilty soon?

 

Though you could argue that loki can be damaged.

 

And the counter would be that Loki can use ranged weaponary, whilest Valkitty can't use ranged in her ult. And thus the spiral continues....

[AlienTetris]

 

And the counter would be that Loki can use ranged weaponary, whilest Valkitty can't use ranged in her ult. And thus the spiral continues....

To add on to that Valkyr is also NOT immune to Commander teleportations, as well as certain attacks knocking her back and in the air, her sentinal is also not immune.

[Stratego89]

She's not a tank she's a berserker. Also, she's maiwaifu.

 

Jokes aside. CURRENTLY- she is a tank. That's what her hysteria does for her. She is meant to be a berserker. A berserker's role is to jump into a battle and tear things to shreds while taking heavy damage. They are able to survive because they have a decent amount of protection while still allowing them to be highly mobile- and generally have some form of regeneration or lifesteal (currently she has the former in hysteria). A tank's role is to draw the attention of everything, and take all of the damage enemies have to dish out while your more offensively oriented teammates take them out- generally from range. Berserkers and tanks both pull the enemy's attention from teammates to themselves.

 

The difference in their playstyle is one (tanks) can take a ton of hits nonstop over and over for a long period of time without dying, and keep the enemy's attention- usually with a skill of some kind. The other (berserkers) CANNOT take a lot of hits over and over nonstop. They get their survivability from killing things before they deal a lot of damage to them, and only INDIRECTLY take enemies' attention off of their teammates because they engage in combat with many of them nonstop. A tank is something that makes it easy for friendlies to survive and take out enemies on their own. A berserker is something that makes it easy for friendlies to survive by taking out them enemies themselves, and letting friendlies deal with the weak ones that get through.

 

The reason people confuse tanks and berserkers- is that they are both "tank-y". People argue valkyr is a tank because she is tanky and can take a lot of damage before dying. What people need to understand is that TANKY is a descriptor- it means someone can take lots of hits. Whereas a TANK is a ROLE- specifying what they do in a team, not just "takes a lot of hits without dying". Take a rhino and a valkyr into a game. Both fully modded. NO skills. Stand there and take all enemy fire. Who dies first? The answer: valkyr. Why? Because she doesn't have anything to keep her from taking damage- shield. Valkyr has ARMOR. Armor REDUCES damage- it does not block it completely. Rhino has lots of shields, decent armor (this still needs buffing) and lots of health- not to mention iron skin. All of this means no matter how much enemies hit you, as long as you pay attention they will never even scratch your life. Valkyr on the other hand takes damage directly to her life essentially EVERY TIME she is shot.

 

The reason Valkyr has very few shields is BECAUSE she was intended to be a berserker. This is why hysteria needs to change. It doesn't fit what she is meant to do. It should be replaced by something fitting of a berserker- keep her claws, lose the invulnerability. Gain instead a medium movement speed buff to get her from target to target quickly so that she doesn't take a lot of damage, and can keep killing threats nonstop without issue. Possibly change the lifesteal to instead a high regen/sec that increases further as she kills (and decreases if she doesn't). Berserkers need to keep moving. People say "if you take away hysteria valkyr will die quickly and be worthless". This is true- but that's only if you TAKE IT AWAY. If you CHANGE it in a way that lets her get around quickly and eliminate threats just as quickly- she's fine.

[bejuizb]

Thematically, sure. gameplay wise, this is the most boring Valkyr's gotten for me after exclusively playing her since she came out. Hysteria has no drawbacks now that it can be cancelled. Oh, look, the enemy's at range. surely Valkyr can't fight enemies at range, therefore she's balanced, right? Press 1, yank the enemy to you, continue slaughtering with godmode. 

 

The invincibility needs to go away. 

[Radon086]

Well, since every kind of statement about this topic is already brought out in old threads but the community never reach a conclusion most player agree- Why not just make it brief,subjective and honest if we really feel the need to mention this topic in a new thread,again?

 

Like just yell out loud "I don't care what was said or will be said,just nerf/leave it." 

And let DE digest the accumulated huge feedback and make their move.  

[TangyBlueBerry]

Thematically, sure. gameplay wise, this is the most boring Valkyr's gotten for me after exclusively playing her since she came out. Hysteria has no drawbacks now that it can be cancelled. Oh, look, the enemy's at range. surely Valkyr can't fight enemies at range, therefore she's balanced, right? Press 1, yank the enemy to you, continue slaughtering with godmode. 

 

The invincibility needs to go away. 

And what would you suggest to counter the loss of invincibility? I'm trying to think of a happy medium here. She can remain invincible, but must remain a rage fulled murder machine and cast her powers and kill and S#&$. Slow down and your dead.

[bejuizb]

And what would you suggest to counter the loss of invincibility? I'm trying to think of a happy medium here. She can remain invincible, but must remain a rage fulled murder machine and cast her powers and kill and S#&$. Slow down and your dead.

Heavy damage reduction, with a possible reduction in energy costs based on how much damage she takes. Maybe retaining the lifesteal would also be a good self defense tactic. Once the ability is untoggled, giving her a penalty should be considered IF the invincibility remains.

[TangyBlueBerry]

Heavy damage reduction, with a possible reduction in energy costs based on how much damage she takes. Maybe retaining the lifesteal would also be a good self defense tactic. Once the ability is untoggled, giving her a penalty should be considered IF the invincibility remains.

Maintaining the life steal is a must have.

 

My penalty applies even during the invincibility. Can't kill enemies fast enough, you take the 7.5% damage you should have as if deactivated. Each enemy has their own counter that will damage you if not killed fast enough.

[Weltraumfred]

And what would you suggest to counter the loss of invincibility? I'm trying to think of a happy medium here. She can remain invincible, but must remain a rage fulled murder machine and cast her powers and kill and S#&$. Slow down and your dead.

 

Power Draw of hysteria increases by 1* for every 400** pts of damage, adjusted by armor, that Hysteria absorbs. You can stay invincible, just not as long. Every time you hit something with melee/power, that 10 points are lost, evey time you kill someone with Melee/Powers 50 points are lost, every time you pull off a finisher, 100 points are lost.

 

But since this is a nerf, let's have a buff in return. 10% of the accumulated damage are added to Ripline, Paralysis and Hysteria as bonus damage (that is applied after melee mods in the case of Hysteria, because otherwise damage would be hilarious).

 

* adds to the base value and is affected by duration mods as usual

** value adjusted by power mods

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

Power Draw of hysteria increases by 1* for every 400** pts of damage, adjusted by armor, that Hysteria absorbs. You can stay invincible, just not as long. Every time you hit something with melee/power, that 10 points are lost, evey time you kill someone with Melee/Powers 50 points are lost, every time you pull off a finisher, 100 points are lost.

 

But since this is a nerf, let's have a buff in return. 10% of the accumulated damage are added to Ripline, Paralysis and Hysteria as bonus damage (that is applied after melee mods in the case of Hysteria, because otherwise damage would be hilarious).

 

* adds to the base value and is affected by duration mods as usual

** value adjusted by power mods

 

As bonus damage...? Two barely do damage even with a damage increase and one does not damage at all. For that bonus damage to even be worth anything we would have to build Valkyr for shields for one of them, her shields ain't *#^$. The other is a single target only really used for singling out heavies. Do see anything amount of bonus damage being enough to even tickle a heavy at higher content level.

Edited October 15, 2015 by (PS4)FunyFlyBoy