Some Kind Of Auction House? [Megathread]

[Stratego89]

Also that proof is irrelevant. Warframe is not those other games. DE will decide, not you, if they are willing to try out some kind of 'player marketplace' type deal, or not. 

No agruing. No fighting.

It's rip off artists who kill economies.

If you'd go look at my other posts on topics regarding this (or literally the last one I just made to someone else)- you would see that my "proof" it wouldn't work in warframe is not that it doesn't work in other games. It DOES work in some games. If I tried to use that as proof- it would work against me as well. I'm not stupid. My proof is a detailed explanation of exactly what would happen. We have tons of supply. We have little demand. Everyone can trade everything instantly at any time to anyone. Everyone who needs stuff buys it. Noone left to buy. Everyone left to sell. ECONOMY DIES. That's the short term- if you wanna see it in more length, scroll above this post and look for my other post to someone else with said explanation- I'm not going to type it out for every person and spam this thread.

 

Yes DE will decide- it's up to them. But that DOES NOT mean that I shouldn't voice my concerns to keep them from making a decision I believe would be a massive mistake. "No fighting, no arguing". These posts are meant to create discussion and have people on all sides of the idea voice their opinions. "arguing or fighting" might not be the words to describe what is happening. It's DISCUSSION. It's IMPORTANT. Do NOT deny it from people and tell them to stop.

 

Rip off artists don't kill economies. They don't have that power. They are one person making one tiny rip off at a time. In this game- it is literally impossible to scam. If someone loses out on a deal, that's because they didn't take the time to learn what something is worth- which can easy be done in getting a rough estimate by asking friends, chats, or various websites available to them. And just to clarify- scamming is using underhanded means (such as swapping out an item last second, hence why scamming is impossible in warframe) sharking (which might be the term you actually meant) is taking advantage of a person's ignorance of value on an item in order to get it for a ridiculously low price- or sell for ridiculously high. Economies don't die because a few people here and there rip someone off. They just don't. That's a drop in the ocean of trading. It happens every day in every economy. What kills economies is an extreme imbalance in supply/demand. Which is exactly what would happen if an auction house happened. Again- for more info and a lengthy description of how and why it would happen, find my above reply to someone else.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

I do not see an auction house being a problem in this game. There isn't a horde of content locked behind money, it's mostly farmed within the game. Yes, prices on certain things will drop, but prices on once in a while items will stay stable, if not go higher as you will have the players who will buy rare gear/mods (Alert dropped only, Void Trader) in bulk, then wait a week and sell them for higher.

 

I, for one, would love to have an auction house. Make it dang easier in getting what I need than sitting there on spam chat hoping I see what I want or I get a PM.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Inflation and deflation happens. It's part of a "healthy" economy. It's like how structures need to be not-rigid so that they can expand slightly in the summer heat and contract in the winter cool without cracking and breaking apart. Warframe's economy is a FREE MARKET. People can charge or pay whatever they want. It's not a walmart, people make their own prices based on their haggling skills, rarity of items, supply and demand, etc etc. It's alive. It changes, it adapts. This is a good thing. It keeps it from becoming stagnant and dying. It keeps everyone happy as long as they're willing to do the work they need to find the buyer/seller they're looking for.

 

There is plenty to spend plat on, plenty. That would change if an auction house happened- as I'll describe below. Players don't need to spend anywhere near that time to "keep up". Everything players get in this game they get by choice. They don't NEED that shiny new weapon- they choose to get it. Most MMOs have the setup of "get weapon to get better weapon to get better weapon" in an chain that inevitably ends with "congrats you have best thing go kick butt and get bored". Warframe's setup is nothing like that. Everything is "equal". The mods are the thing that you have to put time into to be powerful and "keep up". Sure you could spend a ton of money on plat to quickly and easily buy mods max ranked. But that's a choice. The point of having to spend a lot of time on stuff is PLAYER RETENTION. That is an important thing that keeps a game alive... Also- no matter how much money players spend on the game, in the end they still have to level up their gear in order to mod it to be good. (Sidenote here. Keep up in the leaderboards? Impossible. This game has a surprising number of cheaters who apparently care about being top dog. Completing a raid in 3 minutes or less? There's literally no way other than hacks.)

 

This is generally correct- but an auction house in warframe would not give opportunities to EITHER side. It would take away from both. People have tons and tons and tons of spares of every prime part. There are (I believe) 15 million players in warframe. Most have multiple spares of parts and mods etc that a MUCH smaller percentage of players want/need. If an auction house happened- every player would suddenly post up their spare parts- even more than there are total players. In order to compete everyone would drop their prices. The few people that actually need the parts would buy them up cheap (this is what people want... but they don't think about what happens afterwards, and probably don't care really). After that- NOONE would need the parts anymore. Everyone who needs them already got them. There would be infinite supply, and 0 demand. Supply and demand must exist in balance for an economy to survive. If everyone has the stuff they need- noone else will buy ever. If noone else will buy- there's no more need to buy plat to trade. Players no longer have anyone to sell stuff to to make plat without buying it themselves. DE's plat sales drop drastically. EVERYONE LOSES. I've posted this a million times in many different ways on tons of "ADD AN AUCTION HOUSE WE NEED IT!" threads. Yet usually noone listens and just comes back with "No the current system sucks this would make things easy"- as if they didn't read a word I said. Maybe some day DE will give an official stance on this topic- and I pray that it is "we won't put an auction house in Warframe". But I have faith that they are smart enough to not add one.

Profits from sellers, if there was at least a fan-made site for 'base prices', would be able to get more reliable sales. For example, how much do you think you would profit from? Trying to sell a Trinity Prime set for 600+plat and hardly nobody takes it? Or if you sell it a lower price of around 200-400 plat and get much more buyers, more frequently. Buyers are able to do the same, should they need to sell something. Cash flow will not be one-sided eventually, and the plat would move from player to player constantly. The ever increasing rate of new players to Warframe can also feed this, since not everybody has everything, nor does everybody want to buy everything. Like me, for example, I don't even have 1/4 of everything in Warframe. Mostly because I have all that I ever want, and need. Everything else is just either mastery fodder(Frames, weps, sentinels, dogs) or just shiny(capes, scarves, armor pieces).

Constant free market will eventually die down, since there will always be that portion of players who refuse to spend money on platinum for whatever reason. Maybe they're kids still in highschool, they don't have a job, they don't feel like spending money on free-to-play games, there's a multitude of reasons. This very reason of free market is my own reason of never buying platinum. Everything is either stupidly high in plat price over trade, or nobody is selling it because everybody else has it, therefore no need for selling.

[FalcorPIX]

they just need to get a better chat, and split it in wts/wtb/wtt, or have an obtion to only show text with wtb/wts etc...

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

I do not see an auction house being a problem in this game. There isn't a horde of content locked behind money, it's mostly farmed within the game. Yes, prices on certain things will drop, but prices on once in a while items will stay stable, if not go higher as you will have the players who will buy rare gear/mods (Alert dropped only, Void Trader) in bulk, then wait a week and sell them for higher.

 

I, for one, would love to have an auction house. Make it dang easier in getting what I need than sitting there on spam chat hoping I see what I want or I get a PM.

 Also this. I refuse to sit for hours in trade chat, watching the spam flood in, then missing the one person selling the thing I want and then realize it's already sold because I wasn't fast enough on PM'ing said seller. I vote for a better trade system

[RAZORLIGHT]

You must not see these threads often- or read past OP even if you do, or see the tons of brilliant "arguments" in favor of auction houses deep into the threads...

 

Yes. I say this based off of me experience with the people who support the auction house system. If my experience was different, then I wouldn't say this.

 

Auction houses KILL ECONOMIES. I am avidly against this because adding one would completely kill Warframe's economy within a couple of weeks. I don't want to see my favorite game die because of some stupid decision put in to appease people who are too lazy to work for what they want.

if trading is the only joy you have in WF you should look for another game 

 

to sum things up in this thread

the playerbase went downhill with lightning speed in the last time

 

alteast the 2 comments above mine are somewhat logical

Edited October 15, 2015 by RAZORLIGHT

[Greatheart]

This has already been promised: https://warframe.com/news/devstream-44-overview

 

Trade Overhaul

While we intend to move trading posts from their isolation in Clan Dojos to something more open like the Relays, this isn't the only update to player trading in 2015. Expect to see an overhaul to player trading as a whole, including improvements to our current Trade Chat channel. 

 

We're also taking a look at creating a consignment system that allows players to auction goods. This system works similar to an auction house , and would likely be visited after we focus on making trading easier for players.

 

Some day they'll get around to it... someday!

 

Personally I just want clan-only Auction Houses. No worries about the economy.

[Stratego89]

if trading is the only joy you have in WF you should look for another game 

I almost don't know how to respond to this. How on earth did you even come to this assumption? I'm saying that warframe's economy will die if an auction house happens. What happens when a game's economy dies? The ENTIRE GAME DIES. I don't want to see my FAVORITE GAME DIE. How at ALL does that suggest "trading is the only joy I have in WF"?

[RAZORLIGHT]

trading doesnt affect the gameplay 

 

you can still farm ALL of the things you want, you dont have to use the auction house or just trade the parts for the shiny void trader currency

 

anyway look for some nice economy game which satifies your needs

 

btw. you have to be some kind of visionary if you already know that an auction house WILL destory warframe, so may i ask you about the next lotto numbers?

 

Btt. yes economy may suffer the first time but thats it

 

all players who dont want an auction house are just afraid that they cant rip off other players anymore

thats the sad fact, deal with it!

Edited October 15, 2015 by RAZORLIGHT

[Greatheart]

This has already been promised: https://warframe.com/news/devstream-44-overview

 

Trade Overhaul

While we intend to move trading posts from their isolation in Clan Dojos to something more open like the Relays, this isn't the only update to player trading in 2015. Expect to see an overhaul to player trading as a whole, including improvements to our current Trade Chat channel. 

 

We're also taking a look at creating a consignment system that allows players to auction goods. This system works similar to an auction house , and would likely be visited after we focus on making trading easier for players.

 

Some day they'll get around to it... someday!

 

Personally I just want clan-only Auction Houses. No worries about the economy.

[RazorTip]

Inflation and deflation happens. It's part of a "healthy" economy. It's like how structures need to be not-rigid so that they can expand slightly in the summer heat and contract in the winter cool without cracking and breaking apart. Warframe's economy is a FREE MARKET. People can charge or pay whatever they want. It's not a walmart, people make their own prices based on their haggling skills, rarity of items, supply and demand, etc etc. It's alive. It changes, it adapts. This is a good thing. It keeps it from becoming stagnant and dying. It keeps everyone happy as long as they're willing to do the work they need to find the buyer/seller they're looking for.

 

There is plenty to spend plat on, plenty. That would change if an auction house happened- as I'll describe below. Players don't need to spend anywhere near that time to "keep up". Everything players get in this game they get by choice. They don't NEED that shiny new weapon- they choose to get it. Most MMOs have the setup of "get weapon to get better weapon to get better weapon" in an chain that inevitably ends with "congrats you have best thing go kick butt and get bored". Warframe's setup is nothing like that. Everything is "equal". The mods are the thing that you have to put time into to be powerful and "keep up". Sure you could spend a ton of money on plat to quickly and easily buy mods max ranked. But that's a choice. The point of having to spend a lot of time on stuff is PLAYER RETENTION. That is an important thing that keeps a game alive... Also- no matter how much money players spend on the game, in the end they still have to level up their gear in order to mod it to be good. (Sidenote here. Keep up in the leaderboards? Impossible. This game has a surprising number of cheaters who apparently care about being top dog. Completing a raid in 3 minutes or less? There's literally no way other than hacks.)

 

This is generally correct- but an auction house in warframe would not give opportunities to EITHER side. It would take away from both. People have tons and tons and tons of spares of every prime part. There are (I believe) 15 million players in warframe. Most have multiple spares of parts and mods etc that a MUCH smaller percentage of players want/need. If an auction house happened- every player would suddenly post up their spare parts- even more than there are total players. In order to compete everyone would drop their prices. The few people that actually need the parts would buy them up cheap (this is what people want... but they don't think about what happens afterwards, and probably don't care really). After that- NOONE would need the parts anymore. Everyone who needs them already got them. There would be infinite supply, and 0 demand. Supply and demand must exist in balance for an economy to survive. If everyone has the stuff they need- noone else will buy ever. If noone else will buy- there's no more need to buy plat to trade. Players no longer have anyone to sell stuff to to make plat without buying it themselves. DE's plat sales drop drastically. EVERYONE LOSES. I've posted this a million times in many different ways on tons of "ADD AN AUCTION HOUSE WE NEED IT!" threads. Yet usually noone listens and just comes back with "No the current system sucks this would make things easy"- as if they didn't read a word I said. Maybe some day DE will give an official stance on this topic- and I pray that it is "we won't put an auction house in Warframe". But I have faith that they are smart enough to not add one.

This is a very elaborate and well-constructed counter, I applaud you for keeping a cool head and actually stepping forward with a solid argument.

 

But you're forgetting one thing.

 

Ducats. The Void Trader.

For all his faults and (sometimes) useless redecos, he's still a good way to effectively recycle the unwanted, or "Prime cannon fodder", parts. That said, in order to make the most of Baro ki Teer, he'd need a rework as well, selling more things in order to make an effective way to dump all the unwanted Prime loot.

 

This coming from me, a guy that loathes the Void Trader, but that's mostly DE's fault for not coming up with more useful things.

 

This game is still growing, still developing, there's a ton of things that are going to be added in the future, so why can't we just give this a shot? Lotus on a stick, this is just a game. Better yet, this is just a game, still in BETA. Stuff changes. Stuff gets removed, reworked, tweaked, nerfed, buffed, whatever. 

 

It's still prone to change.

Edited October 15, 2015 by RazorTip

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

If you'd go look at my other posts on topics regarding this (or literally the last one I just made to someone else)- you would see that my "proof" it wouldn't work in warframe is not that it doesn't work in other games. It DOES work in some games. If I tried to use that as proof- it would work against me as well. I'm not stupid. My proof is a detailed explanation of exactly what would happen. We have tons of supply. We have little demand. Everyone can trade everything instantly at any time to anyone. Everyone who needs stuff buys it. Noone left to buy. Everyone left to sell. ECONOMY DIES. That's the short term- if you wanna see it in more length, scroll above this post and look for my other post to someone else with said explanation- I'm not going to type it out for every person and spam this thread.

 

Yes DE will decide- it's up to them. But that DOES NOT mean that I shouldn't voice my concerns to keep them from making a decision I believe would be a massive mistake. "No fighting, no arguing". These posts are meant to create discussion and have people on all sides of the idea voice their opinions. "arguing or fighting" might not be the words to describe what is happening. It's DISCUSSION. It's IMPORTANT. Do NOT deny it from people and tell them to stop.

 

Rip off artists don't kill economies. They don't have that power. They are one person making one tiny rip off at a time. In this game- it is literally impossible to scam. If someone loses out on a deal, that's because they didn't take the time to learn what something is worth- which can easy be done in getting a rough estimate by asking friends, chats, or various websites available to them. And just to clarify- scamming is using underhanded means (such as swapping out an item last second, hence why scamming is impossible in warframe) sharking (which might be the term you actually meant) is taking advantage of a person's ignorance of value on an item in order to get it for a ridiculously low price- or sell for ridiculously high. Economies don't die because a few people here and there rip someone off. They just don't. That's a drop in the ocean of trading. It happens every day in every economy. What kills economies is an extreme imbalance in supply/demand. Which is exactly what would happen if an auction house happened. Again- for more info and a lengthy description of how and why it would happen, find my above reply to someone else.

1. Warframe is barely over 2 years old. It's a free to play game that has proven itself to be on par with most AAA large-budget games to date. Therefore many more new players will continue to come and check this nice game out. Some may like it and stay, some may not. Just how the current free market here goes.

2. You're comparing this game to other games that have been around for many, many years possibly. Some games had gone through many changes, whether through gameplay, mechanics, or even ownership such as companies owning said title, or change of management of staff. Star Trek Online, for example, used to be pretty solid and really nice. Now that Cryptic isn't actually in control over it anymore for a long while, you know who now owns it. The economy in that game is horrible, everything is way overpriced and nothing is being bought nor sold. Grind is worse, and some of the STF's on easy mode are worse than that. Everything about the game is what dictates how the cashflow is eventually determined. Players in that game are just a medium, and secondary factor that sets the prices for the in-game market. Warframe has not had this problem yet. We seem to be getting there, but DE is saying, that with the upcoming Starchart 3.0, that said the increasing grind is pretty much going to be nipped in the bud. Stem the problem, and you will solve it.

3. Yes they do. Let's say I was ripped off here in Warframe, hypothetically. Let's say it was a maxed Primed Continuity for a price 3 times of what it normally goes for on average in trade chat. That is a ton of platinum, a ton of real money that I might have used myself. I'm out of that money, and now that player is sitting on a pile of greedy milk. So, I go and ignore him, then go about and try to let others know about his otherwise obvious-to-some-players ripoff and some take that into consideration. Over time, it might come to the point where he gets no more sales due to nobody buying from him again, and he's sitting on all that Plat. He already has everything you can buy in warframe, cosmetics, dogs, weapons, frames, sentinels, shinies up to, but not including Prime Access Accessories(depending if he did get them, such as PA icons)and other icons. Now there's that platinum not fueling the rest of the market. Every single plat helps the ecomomy, or what little there is at the moment, in staying around another day.

Now then you sometimes get those really awesome guys who sell you something that's normally sold for high prices, but for much cheaper, or maybe even for free!(not counting dojo tax and all that). "Promotions" and things like that helps spark players coming back to buy and sell, the next day. It's all like an ecosystem. You gotta think long and hard about that. 

SIDE NOTE: If I left anything out, or got anything wrong, please let me know. My brain hurts after all this thinking ;-;

[SilentFears]

I play WoW too, and I understand one thing and that is those people who you called "manipulate" are people who spend more time thinking about how to earn gold and are more committed to it just like how you and me are more committed to the actual gameplay rather than making a buck. If this week Ore sells at a higher level and more demanding what's wrong with them digging Ore and selling them in mass scale? I think it's rather normal to keep up with the demand and charge for a little extra if it's very demanding. You might think grinding gear gives you an objective goal in the game, but these people think earning that gold and obtaining those demanding gears are their objective goal?

 

I think AH is very effective, currently is non effective system where you have to read and wait for minutes/hours to trade, this is not a game, this is called a job.  What's wrong with us want to be effective? I mean I don't got home until 9pm and I got out at 7:30am in the morning, you might be in school or might be having a lower working time, what's wrong with me asking for something that I believe will improve busy people's gameplay quality? WoW too have people still yelling in the channel to sell stuff, if you want it that way that's just an extra option for us, why are you so selfish?

 

As for trolling on price? NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Learn something called Economics, microeconomics suggest that the market is self regulating and there is no need for government interference. Marcoeconomics however, supports the keynesian economics theory which the system sometimes would need the government to regulate which is what DE's been doing all along, Baro Ki' teer, events, exclusives, and cash only Prime Accesses. If you believe in self regulating economy there will be very few and nearly no one paying for a 50plat Rage mod, thus the market will forced to lower the price to the equilibrium point where the supply matches the demand, 

 

here is an example graph of equilibrium point

 

 

If you believe in Keynesian economics, you don't have to worry at all. DE is already doing what they are suppose to do to accomplish their regulated economics. And if you really are a hardcore MMO player, you will know that events and updates are the time where developers or GMs shuffle the economy. Look at what happened to Tempo Royale few weeks ago, dropped from 300plat to 100plat. That's quite earth shattering on that mod ins't it? Guess what would happen if Baro Ki' Teer start selling Tempo Royale? I bet it'll drop to 50 plat if it's in a AH manner. And if I want to make a quick buck without waiting, I can always offer to sell at 40 or 35plat, so as the lower level players. Or if we keep up our current system maybe some scammers will still sell them at 300 plat for those who doesn't have the info yet or those who cannot access the relay yet.

 

Which kind are you? Being constructive or believe in no data but blindly believe in what you think as there is always some higher power controlling the economy?

 

 

Don't make an excuse like "but normal players will make less"  this is the same as what Warframe offers or any other MMO offers, if you don't spend the time to actually play the game or you are lower level and will still need more time to level up, it's natural that one is limited. Remember the time when you are new and wanted that Orokin cell badly or that Argon Crystal? Guess what? I have crap tons of them now, but back then I was like a desprite little S#&$ always hoping someone with high tier items to help me kill General Sargas, but when I get to the void level those Orokin Cell is the least thing I want, that's just the way game reward you leveling, why is that wrong?

 

Few things you get wrong.

 

1. I was one of this peaople that had so much gold that my whole clan could not match me - so i in effect could in combination whit two more firends of mine manipulate a part of AH. And trust me - the rich got richer and the poor got even more poor. But if thats what you want from AH - by all means go for it. 

And yes an ore that is used for trash crafting and skill lvling is fine and dandy. But when you realise that you can sell almost anything in Warframe even the stuff you wear then you realise that at some point outside of "Tempo Royale" and "Prime chamber" - everything else will get to the price of 1pl. Outside of items from new patch for a whole one week. Again cant really see the good part of the AH. Care to elaborate ?

 

2. Nice stab at the "you a kid couse you can trade for an hour" but incorect. I do however spend one hour at the begining of my play sesion trading and 5 to 10 mins every hour looking at trade chat - its called dedication. And having more plat that i can spend i find it to be another part of the game where you can have fun.

 

But the more important part is that you want AH whit the current pracing. You can aways shout "WTS Carrier Prime Cerebrium 10p" and instant sell it. What you cant do is get the proper price in less then 30 mins. What you want is to go to a tab called AH put the carrier prime part for 40p and go to roll few more voids for few more parts for 40p. Difference is that once AH is up there - you will get whole 5p for that rare part. 

Whats more as mods can be traded and are not character bound - eventually there will be no rare mods - have fun whit that 1 plat for Blind Rage you had to run 5 vaults for.

 

3. Never said anything about Trolling prices - dunno waht you are talking about. Maybe different poster ?

 

4. So you are suggesting that everyone who dont inform a buyer of the usual price of an item is in fact "scamer". Cool story bro. There is tons and TONS of way to find the price of an item. Asking few traders that are selling said time of how much they want for it. Checking side pages for pricing, visiting the forums - hell ask you damn clan ffs. Tons and tons of ways. But no what you want is hand me down information..... Great. Tell me again how you are not lazy.

 

5. Last part is most fun to read. Noraml MMO's have levels that take months to get to and months to grind gear to be able to do the end game and get the expensive loot.

Warframe have nothing like that. Takes a day to get a frame to lvl 30. Takes five min to get in a void T1. More importantly - you can get some of the most rare mods from starting areas..... where the mobs can be one shot by lvl 5 starter weapon. Do tell me more about "low levels".

And yes normal players that rareley trade will be the once screwed the most. That lucky stance drop that go for 25 plat that he can instantly sell for 15plat on the market right now - will be exactly 1plat in AH. Well color me impresed. Now he just need to get said rare drop 20 more times and he can go and install a patato in his trash starting gun. Great.

 

 

And lastly. I dont care in the end if they introduce AH or not. I will still make my money. But for the love of god atleast dont preted you want AH for the greater good. Couse you dont. You are the selfish one. The one that wants to just drop stuff at AH whitout a clue and buy the mods and gear you want for the cheapest possible price.

[Ninja-Kid]

Then you dont even know how it works, yet feel free to post about it.

 

Your wts post is equivalent to setting item for sale on ah, you dont need to browse anything if you dont want to

Your wtb post is equivalent to setting buy order on ah, again you dont need to browse anything if you dont want to.

Selling is as active as buying.

 

Theres no change in both sellers and buyers.

 

If you still dont know how it works then look at https://warframe.market/ cause it is indeed how auction house works, 1 tab for sell orders 2nd tab for buy orders both equally passive.

 

Thx Armed_Monkey for showing me this site btw.

 

Rift, eve, wildstar and even steam market work on same basis. Like i said only wow is known for me example which still uses old system of active buying and even there economy is stable for all these years, despite wod even giving stuff for free, it remained stable.

 

So all you have is doomsaying that ah is bad with no proof and you dont even want to present proof despite your theory being proven wrong multiple times by other games.

1. WFMarket - That's called a trading forum. It nowhere near approaches the features of an AH. In an AH, a transaction can push through with the seller never even interacting with a single buyer. Learn the difference.

 

2. You are comparing Auction Houses for the sake of comparing Auction Houses, without taking into account the underlying economy and the mechanics of the Auction House itself. That's like saying different cars would perform the same because they have the same chassis. Let's take a look at these AH's

Rift - Paywall. In-game currency exchange

Eve - Mind-numbing, soul-destroying, grind. In-game currency exchange

Wildstar - In-game currency exchange (?; not sure, to be verified).

Wow - In-game currency exchange

 

Those Auction Houses work because the game economy and market have the features and limitations to make an AH work. Warframe has none of those. Now, if you really want to compare apples to apples, find an AH that (1) deals exclusively in real money or real money equivalent; and (2) has a high drop rate.

 

You are left with Steam and Diablo 3 - both disasters. (Steam: we've discussed this. Diablo 3: need I say more?)

 

 

 

These numbers are all false, warframe never had average of 50k players on steam, highest average was 29k, not even 30k and this is also spiky as hell as ppl come back for new update then leave week or 2 later.

 

Accounts made also doesnt matter, by these you could say that wow have over 150 milions of players, yet only active subs are taken into account for a reason. Hell if we took these into account lol would have over 500mil players.

Inactive accounts are mostly ppl who played it and quit, thus they generate no revenue.

 

Ill show something else however. I cant find exact date for trading launch but first posts on trading forums are from 21nov2013.

"October 31, 2013, when the company earned $24.6 million in revenue and $5.5 million in pre-tax profit."

Thats how much de was making before trading

"In the six months leading up to April 30, 2014, Digital Extremes earned $27 million in revenue, or $8.7 million in pre-tax profit."

Thats how much it was improved by trading and first prime access which was also added at that time. 

Even assuming that no one bought PA which we know isnt true, trading given de 2.4mil and that was golden era where whirlwind sold for 40p and quick thinking was selling like hotcakes for 50p.

 

Anyway, this shows that AH would have 0% chance to cause bankrupcy for DE, even in worst case scenario as most of the money is not made from trading.

 

1. 30k a day active players is still a LOT in terms of supply generation.

 

2. Assuming your numbers are correct, implementing an AH would have a 100% chance of somebody getting fired in DE, probably the poor sap who has to explain to the CEO why they gave up $4.8million in annualized EBIT.

Companies are not judged based on whether or not they make money. They are judged on how much money they make. And by how much, it means if they performing within expectations. If DE made $8.7M EBIT in six months, you can bet that the board expects $8.7M EBIT every six months thereafter, or better. Not meeting their target means somebody has a lot of explaining to do.

 

DE will never endanger trading revenue. Never.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Ninja-Kid

[Davoodoo]

1. 30k a day active players is still a LOT in terms of supply generation.

 

2. Assuming your numbers are correct, implementing an AH would have a 100% chance of somebody getting fired in DE, probably the poor sap who has to explain to the CEO why they gave up $4.8million in annualized EBIT.

Companies are not judged based on whether or not they make money. They are judged on how much money they make. And by how much, it means if they performing within expectations. If DE made $8.7M EBIT in six months, you can bet that the board expects $8.7M EBIT every six months thereafter, or better. Not meeting their target means somebody has a lot of explaining to do.

 

DE will never endanger trading revenue. Never.

Nice strawman you got there.

 

1st you work under assumption that ah is bad without ever proving it is and base your reasoning around that.

 

2nd 30k ppl create supply regardless of what system is used for player trading.

 

3rd i made hypothesis based on PA making no profits while also pointing out it isnt true, you took it as truth.

 

4th you assume that ah will reduce profits(actually you just said that ah would generate 0 revenue) which makes me wonder why all these other games havent fired their ceo's who in your mind given up all that profit

 

So not only you havent put up any evidence for your theory but also ignored obvious examples which prove your theory is wrong yet again.

 

1. WFMarket - That's called a trading forum. It nowhere near approaches the features of an AH. In an AH, a transaction can push through with the seller never even interacting with a single buyer. Learn the difference.

 

2. You are comparing Auction Houses for the sake of comparing Auction Houses, without taking into account the underlying economy and the mechanics of the Auction House itself. That's like saying different cars would perform the same because they have the same chassis. Let's take a look at these AH's

Rift - Paywall. In-game currency exchange

Eve - Mind-numbing, soul-destroying, grind. In-game currency exchange

Wildstar - In-game currency exchange (?; not sure, to be verified).

Wow - In-game currency exchange

 

Those Auction Houses work because the game economy and market have the features and limitations to make an AH work. Warframe has none of those. Now, if you really want to compare apples to apples, find an AH that (1) deals exclusively in real money or real money equivalent; and (2) has a high drop rate.

 

You are left with Steam and Diablo 3 - both disasters. (Steam: we've discussed this. Diablo 3: need I say more?)

Actually wfmarket is skeleton of ah, if it had added functionallity it would become ah, atm its third party trying to cut out trade chat, ofc its not fully functional ah, thx for pointing out the obvious.

 

2.Rift dunno havent played that much of it.

Eve got plex which can be bought for real money and is being sold in game for in game currency, pretty much like platinum(which is also ingame currency with attached real money arbitrary value).

WoW got tokens which is same system.

Wildstar also had credd which is same system.

 

Steam and d3 auction house are very different as they offered prices in $ thus are affected by both real world economy and ingame economy.

We discussed steam and still only you and taiiat claim its disaster, despite me clearly showing that current trading chat already got prices set up in same way, trading chat however is beautiful and theres nothing wrong with it. Biased opinion is biased.

 

D3 ah was disaster because it drove ppl away from the game, as ppl wanted new revolution in action rpg genre(basicaly next diablo) and not f2p economy for 60$, blizzard thought they can make S#&$ty product and get extra $$$ out of it, community rebeled and blizzard finally gave up and made reaper of souls which brought game back to its roots and brought many ppl back.

Idea of ah wasnt disaster, its usage for diablo 3 was.

You repeat internet articles with clickbait titles without even trying to understand what was the problem in first place.

 

Tbh im not even willing to respond to you anymore as you still havent provided any proof and just try to debunk my proofs by arguing about semantics while ignoring any point where you cant do so.

 

http://joshkaufman.net/everything-i-know-about-business-i-learned-from-world-of-warcraft/

http://www.academia.edu/6347993/The_Real_Economics_in_a_Virtual_World

 

->Download link below, dont download unless you accept possible consequences<-

https://journals.tdl.org/jvwr/index.php/jvwr/article/download/869/634

 

Above sources show how similiar wow ah is to real world economy and last link provides some interesting finds about prices.

So if ah are failure that must clearly mean that real life economy is outright bad.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

No action house. OP gives no reason why we need it other than boo-hoo people are mean to him and thinks everybody is ripping him off. So much BS

[styxonfire]

Nope but there's one to look for specific topic :D

 

EDIT :For the OP you have to understand that this kind topic pop up every once in a while.

 

In my opinion it's not because auction house is a necessity but most likely because someone discover the tradechat or don'tuse it frequently -> get burned -> go do a new post about auction house.

 

For me trade has become a meta game and basically i spend as much time trading (sometimes more) than playing the actual game. An auction house would ruin that :/ 

I just noticed the smaller text underneath. Shame on me.

[Chhkt]

Warframe is not Eve Online. They are nothing alike. Warframe supports comradery, friendship, healthy and non-psycho mindsets.

Eve is just a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The second you click play, you subject yourself to be a helpless victim of PvP unconsentiously. PvE in Eve is shunned, while PvP determines who is "worthy" to be spared. Warframe's PvP is just something that was added in last-minute just so the PvP lovers could have their fill while playing Warframe. Please do not compare completely different games, not even in the same genre, again.

EDIT: Also on a side note. Eve Online is still going well over 10 years strong. Eve Online is based primarily around player economy.

Except we aren't comparing the way people play with each other. We are talking about the means of acquiring ways to blaze through a good chunk of the 'content' this game has to offer through a free market system.

 

Why I compare Eve and Warframe in terms of economy is because what people are suggesting for Warframe's method of trading to be isn't much different from Eve's. A 24/7 real-time trading system in a game where real money and virtual money can be used to buy in-game items.

 

1. Eve's economy works because things need to be rebuilt continuously, leading to a steady demand for most items, components, and materials. Steady demand leads to stable prices. We don't have this in Warframe. As soon as you build something, it is yours forever until you purposely sell it, meaning that the demand for items is not constant and diminishes (sometimes rapidly) over time. A sudden glut of prime parts posted onto an auction house-esque system would leave people willing to undercut each other great amounts just to make a trade. Want to keep Warframe trade from being a 'wretched hive of scum and villainy'? An auction house system sure as hell isn't the way to do it.

 

2. Eve is a subscription based game that primarily lives off of people paying for multiple accounts so they can do multiple things at once. Warframe is a F2P game that survives off of people buying plat to occasionally rush things, buy cosmetics, or buy things off of trade chat. That said, Warframe's reasons for having actual money spent on it are limited while Eve's are more steady. So if we crash prices for prime items (as evidenced above) DE loses a reason for people to buy more plat, therefore restricting their income.

 

So before you spout off about 'how I shouldn't' or 'how I can't' compare things that seem different, take a look at the reasons why I might be doing so, because you seem to completely miss the bigger picture.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Xcedis

[Inquisitioner]

The chat system was great when Warframe was small, it's sadly however with more players and items/mods become obsolete to accommodate the large variety and player amount. If auction house is a completely off the table deal, at the very least open up a couple of diff chat rooms, e.g one for primes and another for mods.

[styxonfire]

Few things you get wrong.

 

1. I was one of this peaople that had so much gold that my whole clan could not match me - so i in effect could in combination whit two more firends of mine manipulate a part of AH. And trust me - the rich got richer and the poor got even more poor. But if thats what you want from AH - by all means go for it. 

And yes an ore that is used for trash crafting and skill lvling is fine and dandy. But when you realise that you can sell almost anything in Warframe even the stuff you wear then you realise that at some point outside of "Tempo Royale" and "Prime chamber" - everything else will get to the price of 1pl. Outside of items from new patch for a whole one week. Again cant really see the good part of the AH. Care to elaborate ?

 

2. Nice stab at the "you a kid couse you can trade for an hour" but incorect. I do however spend one hour at the begining of my play sesion trading and 5 to 10 mins every hour looking at trade chat - its called dedication. And having more plat that i can spend i find it to be another part of the game where you can have fun.

 

But the more important part is that you want AH whit the current pracing. You can aways shout "WTS Carrier Prime Cerebrium 10p" and instant sell it. What you cant do is get the proper price in less then 30 mins. What you want is to go to a tab called AH put the carrier prime part for 40p and go to roll few more voids for few more parts for 40p. Difference is that once AH is up there - you will get whole 5p for that rare part. 

Whats more as mods can be traded and are not character bound - eventually there will be no rare mods - have fun whit that 1 plat for Blind Rage you had to run 5 vaults for.

 

3. Never said anything about Trolling prices - dunno waht you are talking about. Maybe different poster ?

 

4. So you are suggesting that everyone who dont inform a buyer of the usual price of an item is in fact "scamer". Cool story bro. There is tons and TONS of way to find the price of an item. Asking few traders that are selling said time of how much they want for it. Checking side pages for pricing, visiting the forums - hell ask you damn clan ffs. Tons and tons of ways. But no what you want is hand me down information..... Great. Tell me again how you are not lazy.

 

5. Last part is most fun to read. Noraml MMO's have levels that take months to get to and months to grind gear to be able to do the end game and get the expensive loot.

Warframe have nothing like that. Takes a day to get a frame to lvl 30. Takes five min to get in a void T1. More importantly - you can get some of the most rare mods from starting areas..... where the mobs can be one shot by lvl 5 starter weapon. Do tell me more about "low levels".

And yes normal players that rareley trade will be the once screwed the most. That lucky stance drop that go for 25 plat that he can instantly sell for 15plat on the market right now - will be exactly 1plat in AH. Well color me impresed. Now he just need to get said rare drop 20 more times and he can go and install a patato in his trash starting gun. Great.

 

 

And lastly. I dont care in the end if they introduce AH or not. I will still make my money. But for the love of god atleast dont preted you want AH for the greater good. Couse you dont. You are the selfish one. The one that wants to just drop stuff at AH whitout a clue and buy the mods and gear you want for the cheapest possible price.

Here's one thing that I'll add into the mix since I do agree with you wholeheartedly. I dare say it is nigh-impossible to create the perfect (or even a quarter-mile close) RNG/Reward system for drops in pretty much any game that can actually hit an acceptable equilibrium in any in-game market UNLESS its been taken into consideration FROM THE VERY BEGINNING... or just luckily coded some stuff that ended up working... AND EVEN THEN, there's no guarantee that it'll work at all, let alone work properly or cater to even more than 50% of the in-game playerbase in any MMO.

Okay, lets say there is an AH... what if DE just tinkered with the drop rates or reward system (I mean, if a crap ton of things drop to 1p in the trade market, why bother buying plat then?) that it just suddenly ended up INFLATING THE HELL out of nearly everything? An Intensify mod could go up in price from 5p to 50p. A Nyx Prime Set that goes for sub-100p to double or triple that. It would inflate the hell out of whatever Baro sells as well (if they maintained that you can sell prime parts for ducats), so... do we really want an AH? Cuz me, I don't mind ending up realizing that I overpaid for something because I always try to make sure I won't make the same mistake again, but no way in hell will I want everything inflate in price because DE has to do something. And yes, we could have a monopoly happening, and there would be legitimate "merchant guilds" popping out.

If AH is implemented without any tinkering of the reward system/drop rates, then I dare say DE's gonna drop in profits. We win, while they lose. I'm pretty sure they know how stingy ALOT of Tenno are, and again... I can't blame any Tenno for being stingy since DE kinda set it up that way to begin with. It strangely encourages stinginess.

Edited October 15, 2015 by styxonfire

[321agemo]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/545308-warframe-needs-a-auction-house/

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501865-auction-house-in-warframe-in-game/

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/541541-auction-service/

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/530547-as-an-online-game-why-not-auction-house%EF%BC%9F/

 

literally just searched "auction".

 

did we really need another one?

[styxonfire]

Inflation and deflation happens. It's part of a "healthy" economy. It's like how structures need to be not-rigid so that they can expand slightly in the summer heat and contract in the winter cool without cracking and breaking apart. Warframe's economy is a FREE MARKET. People can charge or pay whatever they want. It's not a walmart, people make their own prices based on their haggling skills, rarity of items, supply and demand, etc etc. It's alive. It changes, it adapts. This is a good thing. It keeps it from becoming stagnant and dying. It keeps everyone happy as long as they're willing to do the work they need to find the buyer/seller they're looking for.

 

There is plenty to spend plat on, plenty. That would change if an auction house happened- as I'll describe below. Players don't need to spend anywhere near that time to "keep up". Everything players get in this game they get by choice. They don't NEED that shiny new weapon- they choose to get it. Most MMOs have the setup of "get weapon to get better weapon to get better weapon" in an chain that inevitably ends with "congrats you have best thing go kick butt and get bored". Warframe's setup is nothing like that. Everything is "equal". The mods are the thing that you have to put time into to be powerful and "keep up". Sure you could spend a ton of money on plat to quickly and easily buy mods max ranked. But that's a choice. The point of having to spend a lot of time on stuff is PLAYER RETENTION. That is an important thing that keeps a game alive... Also- no matter how much money players spend on the game, in the end they still have to level up their gear in order to mod it to be good. (Sidenote here. Keep up in the leaderboards? Impossible. This game has a surprising number of cheaters who apparently care about being top dog. Completing a raid in 3 minutes or less? There's literally no way other than hacks.)

 

This is generally correct- but an auction house in warframe would not give opportunities to EITHER side. It would take away from both. People have tons and tons and tons of spares of every prime part. There are (I believe) 15 million players in warframe. Most have multiple spares of parts and mods etc that a MUCH smaller percentage of players want/need. If an auction house happened- every player would suddenly post up their spare parts- even more than there are total players. In order to compete everyone would drop their prices. The few people that actually need the parts would buy them up cheap (this is what people want... but they don't think about what happens afterwards, and probably don't care really). After that- NOONE would need the parts anymore. Everyone who needs them already got them. There would be infinite supply, and 0 demand. Supply and demand must exist in balance for an economy to survive. If everyone has the stuff they need- noone else will buy ever. If noone else will buy- there's no more need to buy plat to trade. Players no longer have anyone to sell stuff to to make plat without buying it themselves. DE's plat sales drop drastically. EVERYONE LOSES. I've posted this a million times in many different ways on tons of "ADD AN AUCTION HOUSE WE NEED IT!" threads. Yet usually noone listens and just comes back with "No the current system sucks this would make things easy"- as if they didn't read a word I said. Maybe some day DE will give an official stance on this topic- and I pray that it is "we won't put an auction house in Warframe". But I have faith that they are smart enough to not add one.

Well, not sure if you've been noticing my posts regarding Auction Houses, but I'm an Anti-Auction House guy. The only thing I don't like in the trading tab is that I end up not even seeing my own ads or I have to search 10 years (lol) to see the ad of who's buying or selling what I'm interested in... which as annoying as an itch, but nothing compared to a paper cut. I'm willing to tolerate how it works right now.

Yes, there's a ton of plat to spend on. The question is if its "worth it" kind of thing. Lets expand from trading tab to the cash shop. Oh look at all the Syandanas, built formas, potatoes, and even fully built non-prime weapons. Knowing that you can cheap it out and rush it after farming for its mats, or save the plat for something else, why bother spend? And also, I know Warframe has no mechanic that forces its players to keep up with the meta. Hell, I was able to reach 59 waves in T4D (U16 or U15 pre-parkour 2.0 era... all I knjow is that Parkour 2.0 wasn't here yet and Frost Snowglobe scaled based on duration and power strength) with a teammate Frost who just came back from a year long hiatus. But I bet you've played a game that has given you the feeling of "need to grind just to be able to do this minor end-game raid" because of gear discrimination, right? In Warframe, we don't have that, but I sure do hope we don't get something that gives off a similar feeling in the future, regardless if its caused by the introduction of AH AND some tinkering with reward/drop rate mechanics. Plus, the "The time it starts to get screwed is when it starts giving the impression to players that its obligating them to spend real money or 8-10 hours a day to KEEP UP (there's a difference between keeping up in the leader board stats and keeping up just to be qualified to even do some minor end-game raids or runs) with the meta game." literally. I'm just trying to give the idea of whats it like to have the need to keep up to a community-set standard based on what a player has and not what he can do with what little he has. I like how the game can let you pump as much money as you want in a game, but can never allow you to be the top dog unless you can actually do it.

I doubt the 15 million players in total part unless DE's statistics can filter out which ones are the main accounts or side accounts, but yeah... an Auction House is a bit of a no-no.

[Gen.KiTeer]

This have been suggested a lot. But not a real response from DE yet. My opinion is that they should improve chat system as a whole. 

There has been a response from sheldon:

https://twitter.com/sheldoncarter/status/649610264560730113

[Gen.KiTeer]

I feel Warframe would benefit greatly from a auction house. This constant spamming WTS or WTB is tiring and boring and you have to be very lucky to find what you are looking for as it's flying by or for your item to be seen. Then you have to hope it's for the kinda of price you were looking for. Not to mention a lot of the time you can't get a rough idea on how much things are worth so either end up getting ripped off or selling something for too cheap.

 

At least with a auction house you can have a competitive market and finally get it for the fairest price.

There has been a response from sheldon a while ago:

https://twitter.com/sheldoncarter/status/649610264560730113

 

 

i fully support having no aution house btw.

Edited October 15, 2015 by CruelMaiden

[Shin]

Its like we didnt have another topic like this. 

 

Seriously guys, we should just ignore these topics and forget it. Thats the best way.