Keyshares And Related Sadness.

[ArchPhaeton]

Sup fellow tennos.

 

Last night's happenings made me post again after giving up on feedback many ages ago.

 

Basically, since it is hard to get the key you need to farm the item you want, many tennos have resorted to the so-called keysharing. And because people often joined keyshares knowing they dont have a key, the method of "keychecking" surfaced, were, as you know, everyone shows their key as a filter against shameless freeloaders.

 

And it works most of the time. However, last night's keyshare turned into the last squad member logging off when his turn came... In good faith I tried messaging him after a couple minutes, but suprise! User is now ignoring you.

 

DE definitely can't fix dishonest people, but they can definitely fix the root of this evil if they wanted. Currently building anything from the void is a double RNG ordeal, first grind for a chance to get whatever key you need, then grind those keys (if you got any) for a chance for that piece you want. It gets specially insulting when you burn the somewhat rare T3-4's to get paid with 5 cores or a forma BP that easily drops in lower tiers...

 

Suggestions? Either remove those damn void keys (not so crazy, in other games you just use in-game currency to buy the mission) or put a key tier token that would let us pick which kind of mission we want in that tier, maybe? I have no idea of how the much mentioned void rework will result, I'm leaving my opinion here.

 

"But Arch, you don't need to do it! The game is free! Grind is only in your mind! Get it from trading"

FFS comrads, this is a damn game and games have content that we all want to peek at, without having to deal with 13yo pushers trying to take my hard-earned plat or burning out because rust never sleeps. 

 

While I still like the game and it has improved a lot since day 1,  there are certainly things that can be improved, hence my feedback.

 

 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Void is gonna get changed big time once new starmap hits. How exactly it will operate is still unclear at this time but for certain it won't work quite like our current system.

[Ceryk]

Void is gonna get changed big time once new starmap hits. How exactly it will operate is still unclear at this time but for certain it won't work quite like our current system.

Based on the bits of information we have right now, Void Keys are being removed and Void pockets will randomly pop up on the Star Chart. However, Steve has been really unsure of what to do with Star Chart 3.0 and changed his mind a lot about the whole thing multiple times, so it's subject to change.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Ceryk

[Omega-Shadowblade]

As of the bits of information we have right now, Void Keys are being removed and Void pockets will randomly pop up on the Star Chart. However, Stever has been really unsure of what to do with Star Chart 3.0, so it's subject to change.

 

I recall a bit back that they said that void keys will still hold some sort of purpose so they won't be removed entirely. But as usual its one of those things where we can't confidently say it one way or another till it actually shows up.

[DrusK]

Reputation system could work. With a reset every month or so, so people have a chance of redeeming, y'know. It'd display like "Current rep X, previous rep Y" or "Current rep X, average rep Y", idk.

 

And don't get me wrong, it'd be me i'd permanently ban the account of people who do that, after 1 warning for good measure.

[ArchPhaeton]

Thanks for the info, knowing the keys will be removed (at least to a certain extent) is kinda comforting.

A rep system might be needed, leechers, afk'ers and whatnot have been a constant in WF since the old days - tho a  butthurt warlord might get their whole clan to rain bad rep on you.

[Torhque]

Reputation systems can be abused, so I'm not too fond of that idea.

You just have to be wary and add those players to your ignore list as they pop up.

[Davoodoo]

Reputation system could work. With a reset every month or so, so people have a chance of redeeming, y'know. It'd display like "Current rep X, previous rep Y" or "Current rep X, average rep Y", idk.

 

And don't get me wrong, it'd be me i'd permanently ban the account of people who do that, after 1 warning for good measure.

Amazing idea, with new prime coming out every 3 months how exactly will this prevent anyone from doing that??

 

No i have better idea which would fix this problem and tbh it could be done in next hour by hotfix, remove specific keys and make 1 general type which will allow you to enter multiple tiers/mission types.

 

 

As for starchart 3.0 it reeks of timed exclusivity, so be ready for void to work like void trader. So idk what youre so happy about.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Davoodoo

[DSpite]

And once again, I need to point out there is no such thing as "keysharing", it's a player concept.

 

There is keys, and there is people willing to invite other people to use them with them, and ones that want free rides and are willing to lie to your face when you suggest to a complete stranger what is the equivalent of "I will let you into my house to use the toilet as long as you promise not to steal my wallet", because yea, that is something everyone does, and then they tell the police, to which the police replies "well, how smart was it exactly to let a total stranger into your house? hmmm?"

 

The system is not broken. Player mentality is, and instead of the easy fix, which is "only let friends into your house", you want to get the police to install an ID scanner on your door, to make sure that every total stranger you let in - because apparently you can't stop yourself doing so - isn't listed as a cat burgler.

Edited October 23, 2015 by DSpite

[Tesseract7777]

If we could build void keys the way we can build derelict keys, this nasty keysharing environment would never have started. 

 

I think the entire concept of keysharing (a player created idea not really endorsed by DE) creates a toxic atmosphere in my opinion. 

 

This could easily be solved by simply allowing us to buy void key blueprints on the market and build them. Why not? Why not build them like we can Derelict keys? We would never have any complaints about key sharing again (except maybe involving Mesa lol but that's another matter). 

 

Until then, if you really insist on keysharing, do it with your clan or with friends. You can't expect random people to be trustworthy, and you can't expect DE to enforce a system they had nothing to do with -- in other words, if someone reneges, there's not much you can do but chose to not trust them in the future. 

Edited October 23, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[Torhque]

I wish they would have added the option to craft higher tier keys with many lower tier keys before switching over to Starchart 3.0.

[(PSN)KiloCrusher]

Just did my first keyshare with a Mutalist Alad V key today. I can honestly say that I was beyond paranoid, constantly observing how the other players were acting in chat to see if I could identify a possible scammer. Luckily, everybody was honest and the only thing that screwed us over was RNG.

[cl37us]

And once again, I need to point out there is no such thing as "keysharing", it's a player concept.

 

While I agree that this is a player concept I do not agree that this equates to it being 'no such thing'. It certainly is a thing and anyone that enters a group advertised as a keyshare and proceeds to show their key knows it is a thing also.

 

So far I haven't heard of a fix that I consider either in line with DE encouraging trade which in turn promotes the sale of plat or which is not exploitable. While I do like the idea of building the keys or making them universal I feel this conflicts with my first point.

 

OP, I feel your pain and have been annoyed by the actions you describe many times however having done countless keyshares this happens to me a small minority of the time (perhaps less than 5%). My suggestion is to adjust your expectations. If you have 1 key then that's a solid means to do 1 run, anything above that is a bonus. Even if 1 person in every group skips out on their turn then you're still turning 1 key into 3 runs. Also for myself I'd say that the runs I lose via the unscrupulous few are more than countered by those who will host a mission without the expectation to keyshare.

 

As stated by others, hopefully the upcoming star-chart & void rework will remove some or all of the grindy frustration that drives some people to take the disappointing path of alleviating this by ripping off their fellow Tenno.

[ArchPhaeton]

And once again, I need to point out there is no such thing as "keysharing", it's a player concept.

/snip/

"well, how smart was it exactly to let a total stranger into your house? hmmm?"

/snip

 

a. Keysharing is a reality, if you think it's a metaphysical concept you're very mistaken comrad. If we didn't need keys then keysharing would be effectively pointless, but we do need them and they're usually scarce.

b. No I'm not asking DE to prevent burglars from getting into my house; I'm asking them to remove the reasons that push people into taking such risks. Read thoroughly before pouring salt.

 

/snip/

You can't expect random people to be trustworthy, and you can't expect DE to enforce a system they had nothing to do with -

/snip/

 

Obviously no mature tenno will expect random 13yos to be honest and DE definitely can't fix the ethical problems of our time, but they can definitely reduce and even suppress our need for taking such risks. I liked the "multipurpose void key" someone mentioned, where you earn a tier X key then select which mission to play - however it seems like it's not gonna happen that way.

[RealPandemonium]

Get over it.  Be glad people are generous enough to invite you to use their keys when they could be soloing the missions trivially by themselves.  

Edited October 24, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[V4YR4]

Get over it.  Be glad people are generous enough to invite you to use their keys when they could be soloing the missions trivially by themselves.  

 

This.

 

And Starchart 3.0

[DrusK]

A rep system might be needed, leechers, afk'ers and whatnot have been a constant in WF since the old days - tho a  butthurt warlord might get their whole clan to rain bad rep on you.

Reputation systems can be abused, so I'm not too fond of that idea.

 

Reputation could only be given to squad members and recently viewed players. That limits quite considerably the possible abuse. But yeah, it's a flawed system.

 

 

OP, I feel your pain and have been annoyed by the actions you describe many times however having done countless keyshares this happens to me a small minority of the time (perhaps less than 5%). My suggestion is to adjust your expectations. If you have 1 key then that's a solid means to do 1 run, anything above that is a bonus. Even if 1 person in every group skips out on their turn then you're still turning 1 key into 3 runs. Also for myself I'd say that the runs I lose via the unscrupulous few are more than countered by those who will host a mission without the expectation to keyshare.

 

As stated by others, hopefully the upcoming star-chart & void rework will remove some or all of the grindy frustration that drives some people to take the disappointing path of alleviating this by ripping off their fellow Tenno.

Words of wisdom.

[Valtaya]

Sup fellow tennos.

 

Last night's happenings made me post again after giving up on feedback many ages ago.

 

Basically, since it is hard to get the key you need to farm the item you want, many tennos have resorted to the so-called keysharing. And because people often joined keyshares knowing they dont have a key, the method of "keychecking" surfaced, were, as you know, everyone shows their key as a filter against shameless freeloaders.

 

And it works most of the time. However, last night's keyshare turned into the last squad member logging off when his turn came... In good faith I tried messaging him after a couple minutes, but suprise! User is now ignoring you.

 

DE definitely can't fix dishonest people, but they can definitely fix the root of this evil if they wanted. Currently building anything from the void is a double RNG ordeal, first grind for a chance to get whatever key you need, then grind those keys (if you got any) for a chance for that piece you want. It gets specially insulting when you burn the somewhat rare T3-4's to get paid with 5 cores or a forma BP that easily drops in lower tiers...

 

Suggestions? Either remove those damn void keys (not so crazy, in other games you just use in-game currency to buy the mission) or put a key tier token that would let us pick which kind of mission we want in that tier, maybe? I have no idea of how the much mentioned void rework will result, I'm leaving my opinion here.

 

"But Arch, you don't need to do it! The game is free! Grind is only in your mind! Get it from trading"

FFS comrads, this is a damn game and games have content that we all want to peek at, without having to deal with 13yo pushers trying to take my hard-earned plat or burning out because rust never sleeps. 

 

While I still like the game and it has improved a lot since day 1,  there are certainly things that can be improved, hence my feedback.

 

heard somewhere DE is going to overhaul the whole "void" stuff.... heard it will be even worse then now :D

 

The question is, why is DE not implementing some usefull way how this works?

 

Suggestion: Solar System rewards ONLY T1 keys

Void T1: rewards T2 keys

Void T2: rewards T3 keys

Void T3: rewards T4 keys

Void T4: rewards OD

 

This way, we would already narrow down hoch much we need to farm... I mean seriously? Just ran ODD the other day... T2 on rotation C.... and another T2 on the second rotation C (wave 40)... thats even worse then a damn forma, very insulting by DE and it let me think, if DE EVER thought it out... or yesterday... T4 Defense Wave 40.... Forma... rofl, today T3 Survival 35min.... 3 Orokin Cells... rofl.

 

Btw, if the above system is not tight enough, how about Survival rewarding only Survival key... so when you know, you need T3 Survival, you would go to T2 Survival and it would be rewarded at Rotation A, anything higher is insulting.

 

And DE: you shoud implement a code to remove crap rewards from anything higher then wave 20/minute 20/round 4... it should never ever happen to see a Forma BP at wave 40/60 etc.

 

PS: This keyshare "dodgers" increased in numbers since one of DEs "hotfixes" like 3 weeks ago, where, on some ocasions, the "accept" button is not available during Void missions (wonder why this is not fixed yet). When the "accept" button is gone, this dodgers (most of the time low MR, like <10) say they used a key, thats why they do not see an accept key, and use this to dodge their turn. A simple hint to all fellow Tenno: on keyshare, lowest MR uses their key first, the chance a lvl 18/19/20 tenno will dodge their turn is close to zero.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Valtaya

[Tesseract7777]

Obviously no mature tenno will expect random 13yos to be honest and DE definitely can't fix the ethical problems of our time, but they can definitely reduce and even suppress our need for taking such risks. I liked the "multipurpose void key" someone mentioned, where you earn a tier X key then select which mission to play - however it seems like it's not gonna happen that way.

 

I agree that the solution, as I mentioned with a somewhat different solution from yours, is to make the keys easier to obtain. I think the key grind is just kind of silly. While I think a multipurpose key could work, I would prefer to simply be able to buy the blueprint on the market, and then build whatever key I want, similar to Derelict keys. 

 

If they made them reusable blueprints like for Derelict keys, but didn't want it to be so easy as just picking the blueprints up on the market for credits, they could still make you farm each blueprint once (it would only be once since they would be reusable). 

 

Then people could build keys as needed. Why not make it more like the system for getting into Derelict missions? There are already some prime parts there, and they are easy to get to. 

[djternan]

I would like a key sharing mode. At the start of the first mission it would take a key from everyone then just start the missions one after the other with maybe a 30 second delay in between. That way if you left you would still lose your key and the others would get to run it.

One thing that would need to be fixed is how the host leaving disbands the squad. Something would have to be implemented to reliably migrate hosts.