[Poll] Which Warframe Needs A Rework The Most?

[MumblesMcphatty]

Oh right - I get it - this thread is a trap and has zip to do with a frame NEEDING a rework.

It's about people demanding change on frames they don't like / don't use / don't understand (delete where applicable).

Banshee is useless? All-rounders should be specialists? A limbo trolled me once (6mnths ago) so let's change him too? Cmon people ...

[TARINunit9]

Oh right - I get it - this thread is a trap and has zip to do with a frame NEEDING a rework.

It's about people demanding change on frames they don't like / don't use / don't understand (delete where applicable).

Banshee is useless? All-rounders should be specialists? A limbo trolled me once (6mnths ago) so let's change him too? Cmon people ...

Not really. Most of the posts here have been suggestions for Limbo, suggestions for Hydroid, suggestions for Vauban, or debates over whether Oberon needs a buff. I don't think Banshee has been mentioned once. The only person whining here is you

Edited October 27, 2015 by TARINunit9

[TARINunit9]

Would you argue that for Nyx's ultimate as well?

Nyx's Absorb is, as per the name, a damage absorption move, not just an invincibility period. Please stick to proper comparisons; you don't just sit there invincible, you also redirect the enemy's damage back at them

Edited October 27, 2015 by TARINunit9

[DuncanHydroho]

If you're with a team as Hydroid, they're doing all the work for you; your sole contribution is healing off any Slash proc damage they might take. OK, yeah, maybe his 1 works a lot better in the Void, when there are a lot fewer glitchy doorways to block the shots, but that same terrain works against his 4 and somehow makes it even less likely to deal any damage. Seriously, if Tentacle Swarm could somehow deal negative damage, Hydroid would find a way

 

Not really. I can see you haven't put a lot of time in actually testing hydroid. Most players notice those warframse that are either highly defensive or highly offensive, while Hydorid is basically both. But that what makes this warframe highly versatile, 'cause basically with a bit od SKILL you can adapt to any situation. I admit the fact that the tentacles swarm aren't perfect, and sometime they spawn a bit loose, but they are not even by far useless, no good or so on. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by DuncanHydroho

[ivlr3vil]

Nyx's Absorb is, as per the name, a damage absorption move, not just an invincibility period. Please stick to proper comparisons; you don't just sit there invincible, you also redirect the enemy's damage back at them

 

In my opinion it's a valid comparison, the puddle doesn't just do nothing, It's not like you're just waiting there and enemies walk over you with no effect. They get absorbed and damage is dealt to them.

Edited October 27, 2015 by ivlr3vil

[TARINunit9]

In my opinion it's a valid comparison, the puddle doesn't just do nothing, It's not like you're just waiting there and enemies walk over you with no effect. They get absorbed and damage is dealt to them, in fact that puddle got nerfed before because it did too much damage.

Using Hydroid's 3 as an invincibility escape move was your idea; I was following your logic, which in turn followed this logic train:

Hydroid's puddle: activate it, and you just sit there waiting. Enemies won't even try to attack you, and if they did you will ignore it

 

Nyx's Absorb: activate it, and all enemies within line of sight will immediately change their active target to you, drawing aggro away from your team and into your invincible self (yes, Absorb is programmed to draw aggro). Not only will you ignore enemy attacks, but you have the chance to deal their damage back at them

 

So getting back on topic, yeah, we're up to 2 Hydroid moves that need reworks and one that just needs collision detection tweaking

Edited October 27, 2015 by TARINunit9

[Cidolfus]

Don't see how Oberon could be considered for a rework when he actually has already been reworked, and works very well.

 

He does pretty good damage early/mid game. Smite is like a mini Reckoning that bounces around enemies, knocking them down and giving a 100% radiation proc, thus confusing them.

 

Most builds leave Hallowed Ground in the dust, but it's still a powerful buff/debuff skill if you go range+duration. Sadly that messes up the rest of his abilities somewhat.

 

Renewal is surprisingly good for healing both yourself and your allies. And even if an ally falls, it's still beneficial since it slows down their bleed out timer.

 

And Reckoning can both consistently stun large groups of enemies and give them a radiation proc. It's like irradiating disarm or Nyx's chaos, only with a knockdown CC at the beginning of it. With Natural Talent, high efficiency, and range, you can lock down whole rooms.

 

IMO: early/mid = mod for strength and efficiency. late game = mod for efficiency and range. He's strong damage wise at the beginning, but far stronger CC wise at the end.

 

 

That said, I voted for Hydroid. Limbo is...odd. But after actually sitting down and learning how he works, he's actually pretty damn powerful. The problem lies in his ability to be an accidental troll. Then there's the fact that you can mod him in so many different ways it becomes hard to figure out what build is best for him or for certain situations.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Cidolfus

[ivlr3vil]

Using Hydroid's 3 as an invincibility escape move was your idea; I was following your logic, which in turn followed this logic train:

Hydroid's puddle: activate it, and you just sit there waiting. Enemies won't even try to attack you, and if they did you will ignore it

 

You should try hitting his three twice quickly and notice what happens. It's a CC and an escape move. You don't have to wait there forever, you waiting there is by your own choice. If you're good at it, you can be like this guy.

 

 

You're taking advantage of the invincibility and knockdown that it provides to move around.

Edited October 27, 2015 by ivlr3vil

[TARINunit9]

It's a CC and an escape move

I prefer my CC to effect things further away than the hitbox of the Ether daggers

 

As for using it as invincibility frames, my point isn't that it doesn't have merit, it's that it's incredibly underwhelming. The Dark Gaia video you linked just made me realize how much Warframe doesn't need a "sidestep" move like Super Smash Bros has. Short-term invincibility "sidesteps" are outclassed by bullet jumps -- the dangerous attacks that you want to dodge with a "sidestep", like a Manic Bombard's cluster grenade or a Scrambus's Angstrum, are slow enough and telegraphed enough that regular movement is enough to get away. Long-term sources of invincibility need something else to sell you on the concept, like Nyx's increased aggro and damage redirection, because of the kind of game Warframe is: the player needs to be actively doing something to the enemy

 

Hydroid's invincibility isn't bad in theory, but it needs something ELSE to go with it

 

So instead of just critiquing each other, I wanna just throw an idea out there, an idea for a rework of Hydroid's 3:

Activation and deactivation would work the same. Hydroid would be able to move around at a decent walking pace while in puddle form, and he would be able to pull enemies under with him one at a time using, I dunno, the melee attack button or something. The initial hit of this pull-under animation would deal a decent amount of damage

 

What do you think? My idea is that this mode would allow Hydroid to A) have an option to stealth it up, Loki style B) let Hydroid or isolate specific threats in crowds like Limbo is supposed to do, and C) give him an escape move that actually, you know, escapes the immediate area instead of just trading energy for shields

[Zemosu]

I'd say limbo doesn't need a rework he needs to be unnerfed, all four abilities have great versatility, the rest of the pole ends up being what new players want super buffed because they can't figure out why Ruk is toasting them

Like the idea Limbo is more in need of a buff then a rework.

Zephyr i think need the rework more and this is why:

1 first ability is a bullet jump. If recast it also adds a longer range double jump

2 second ability is a mele ground slam attack or a heavy impact mod take your pick

3 3rd ability is ok

4 4th ability i think it needs a buff or rework, i'd want the tornades to move around more or have wider areas of effect, even if they don't deal as much dmg but at least knock down or back every enemy they hit.

5 passive ability is ok but I would like it to be a bit buffed

[DuncanHydroho]

I'm too busy re-leveling Trinity Prime because I have a four forma build in mind, while Atlas is still in the back burner. I'll give it a shot to see if what you say is true.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/537402-hydroid-feedbackchanges-post-175/

[(PSN)abb12355]

NO. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

We are NOT reworking HYDROID. UNACCEPTABLE.

No. Hydroid/Vauban fill roles for Interception missions the way that Frost/Limbo fill on Defense missions. Just because a frame is not as popular as others, does not mean it needs a rework.

Frames that actually need reworks?

OVERUSED:

Loki

Valkyr

Nova

Saryn

NEVER USED:

Banshee

Mag

Mirage (?)

Nekros

Zephyr

Why these frames?

OVERUSED:

These frames are in every, single, damned game. No matter what mode. Saryn is only getting this much attention due to her ult changing enemies to cheese, after all of the other easymode ults (aside from Valkyr and Nova) were removed/nerfed/changed. She's expected to get a rework soon from the rumors I'm hearing, whereas Valkyr's invulnerability needs to be addressed. Change her ult to give her invulnerability on a kill, or even have her just get a passive that gives her invulnerability on kill, and just have her ult boost her defenses. But this un-ending invulnerability crap can't continue. Nova will always be useful, no matter how much she's nerfed. I don't think it would even be possible to bring her favoritism more towards average without removing/scrapping her ult. Invisibility needs to be reworked on a whole, as it just avoids difficulty and lets the player complete any objective for free, along with that insane movement speed. Nerf his MS or bring other warframes to match it, change invisibility, don't worry about anything else.

NEVER USED:

Banshee. Absolutely useless. Her abilities have short range, but her stats say long-range character. Figure out what you want to do with the soundframe. Make her skills long range, and keep her stats the same? Keep them short-range, and bring her to around Oberon-tank level? Sonic Boom should either be a continuous channel like Spectral Scream or Petrify, keeping the effects of the knockback within X range, and forcing enemies to kneel and hold their ears in pain if they are in less than Y range, but greater than X range. Sonar is garbage, Helios can do the same thing with his Simaris mod. Also, why take Sonar when Molecular Prime is a stronger, equal range, applies to entire body, and detonates the target to cause a chain reaction for a mere cost of an additional 50 energy? No, this ability is useless in comparison. The ONLY way I could see this being somewhat useful is if the highlighted area was an instant-kill, or forced the target to drop additional loot. Silence would be useful, if it also showed the cone of sight of enemies, and if Invisibility didn't outclass it entirely. And finally, SOUND QUAKE. This ability, has so much potential. This ability could bring Banshee to the level of DPS as Nova, or to the level of CCFrame as Hydroid or Vauban. Instead, it does neither. Sure, it gives lots of CC, but it also pushes enemies outside of it's own range. This is the problem that Banshee suffers from on her 1, as well. Pushing enemies outside of your own range is a TERRIBLE IDEA if they have GUNS. Sure, on Infested? Go crazy. But anything that can pull a trigger, you want it close so you can stab it, or you want it dead.

Mag. She very rarely sees use in anything but hijack missions, and some play on conclaves due to shield polarize. Honestly, Greedy Mag was exactly what the community needed, and yet it was destroyed. I have no idea what to do to fix this thing. She's a caster/shieldbuff frame by nature. Grineer don't use shields. Half of her is useless because of this. Her abilities need to effect more than just shields on enemies, like, having it disarm them if their shields are removed/don't exist or something.

Mirage. I see more Loki players on the daily than Mirage players. Maybe she's just too gimmicky? All of her abilities are either random, or change in efficiency based on her environment. Due to this, she's at the mercy of the tileset generators. Her first ability renders fan favorites (Explosives) incredibly dangerous to use if you get confined hallways for the tilesets and was also nerfed to uselessness due to potatoPCs, her second ability is based on drops and what sorts of equipment are around her, her third ability is based on FREAKING LIGHTING. For her third ability, I'd suggest having it be based on what you use it inside of at the start, not as the light changes. Cast it in the dark, turn invisible. Cast it in the light, DMG bonus.

Nekros. Dude needs to be made useful somehow. All his friends are doing cool ninja sh!t and he's just sitting here Desecrating. Mind you, that doesn't mean nerf Desecrate, that means his other skills are lackluster/counter-intuitive.

ZEPHYR. Sweet jesus, this frame is below Banshee tier now. With Parkour 2.0 being not Parkour, but instead Flight Simulator 1.0, we're all Zephyr now. Flying right next to this birdframe is the fatframe, Rhino, and every single other player. Completely useless, aside from her jet stream augment, the MS is nice.

Your ignorants shows that you have 0 experience with these frames. Do you level any of your frames, because it seems like you literally just get them to lvl 10, and say there trash tier. First banshee.... You think Sonic boom is useless, even though it has knockdown, please, if you consider how squishy banshee is, then use this. Second, How does sonar suck, a 500% damage multiplier that stacks when a enemy is kicked. You can reach the damage cap with sonar, Helios can't do that. This is what I mean by 0 experience.

Second, Zephyr

Man, you must of really played Zephyr. Zephyr can parkour much faster then any other frame. Zephyr also has turbulence, a defensive ability and tornadoes, a good CC. I like how you use a lvl 10 Zephyr, use her for one game on mercury against for, and say she sucks. How is hydroid any better then Zephyr. Yes he can Cc, but is squishy and non mobile as hell. Zephyr can do intereption better then him

[VocalMagic]

So instead of just critiquing each other, I wanna just throw an idea out there, an idea for a rework of Hydroid's 3:

Activation and deactivation would work the same. Hydroid would be able to move around at a decent walking pace while in puddle form, and he would be able to pull enemies under with him one at a time using, I dunno, the melee attack button or something. The initial hit of this pull-under animation would deal a decent amount of damage

 

What do you think? My idea is that this mode would allow Hydroid to A) have an option to stealth it up, Loki style B) let Hydroid or isolate specific threats in crowds like Limbo is supposed to do, and C) give him an escape move that actually, you know, escapes the immediate area instead of just trading energy for shields

only if it's named "Condemning Deep" afterwards.

To go with an "Exalted blade" theme of naming.

Get it? Because Condemn is the opposite of Exalt...

I'll stop now.

[DamienTokala]

Hydroid needs a massive damage buff.

But no ability rework. His abilities are fine.

[ashrah]

hydroid.zephyr.limbo.volt

[Cidolfus]

Second, Zephyr

Man, you must of really played Zephyr. Zephyr can parkour much faster then any other frame. Zephyr also has turbulence, a defensive ability and tornadoes, a good CC. I like how you use a lvl 10 Zephyr, use her for one game on mercury against for, and say she sucks. How is hydroid any better then Zephyr. Yes he can Cc, but is squishy and non mobile as hell. Zephyr can do intereption better then him

 

 

Only thing I'd change on Zephyr is maybe give her Tailwind a larger aoe knockdown. Instead of 7 meters at max rank, perhaps 10 meters.. Other than that I see nothing that seriously needs changing. Maaaybe make her divebomb stronger perhaps.

[VCaptiion]

Mag first then Limbo, they are too situational while waste too much energy for a small to useless effect.

Excalibur could spend 2 energy to take down a group of enemy while Mag can't even do a fracture from 100 energy cost.

I can't believe my eyes that my fully-modded Crush did merely 16 damage in T1D wave 20.

 

WHAT A BALANCE, DE.

Edited October 27, 2015 by VCaptiion

[MaverickZero]

Full kit replacement for Limbo.

 

1 or 2 ability replacements for Vauban, Hydroid, Volt, Mag and Saryn.

[Suncake]

Mag first then Limbo, they are too situational while waste too much energy for a small to useless effect.

Excalibur could spend 2 energy to take down a group of enemy while Mag can't even do a fracture from 100 energy cost.

I can't believe my eyes that my fully-modded Crush did merely 16 damage in T1D wave 20.

 

WHAT A BALANCE, DE.

 

Crush works better as CC ability, I think.

[CxLL]

I don't understand why so many people vote for Limbo. He is priceless on any defense mission and his abilities are useful on so many levels.

Sure he's not a fighting frame, but why should he be? I'm not commenting on Banshee and Mirage. It's been proven over and over that people don't even try to use them properly. And why is Zephyr even mentioned in this thread?

On the other hand, my vote sadly goes to Vauban. Utility frame or not, there always feels as if there's way too much room for improvement.

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

Limbo,Hydriod,and mag.

Explanation isn't needed for how much of a rework they need.

[lolmaster222]

I am dissapointed by the lack of banshee votes - her ult is bassicly useless unless you are in a low level mission or with a team who can kill them while they are being stunned.

[Vargras]

NEVER USED:

Banshee

Mag

Mirage (?)

Nekros

Zephyr

Just because you don't see them often or you think they're underused, doesn't mean they're bad. Banshee is ridiculously strong in teamplay. People just don't play her because "lol no big numbers". As far as utility and CC goes, she's pretty powerful. Zephyr is in the same boat.

 

Mag's already slated for a rework, Mirage isn't bad at all, and Nekros just needs some buffs, not a complete rework.

 

I don't understand why so many people vote for Limbo. He is priceless on any defense mission and his abilities are useful on so many levels.

The issue is why bring Limbo when another frame has the same capabilities, but without the downsides? Sure, he can restore energy to allies via Banish, but Trinity can do the same thing in less time and without locking allies into only using abilities. Sure, he can use Cataclysm to protect a pod, but Frost can also just use Snowglobe to do the same thing, while still allowing item pickups inside and allowing allies to shoot out of it at will.

 

There's legitimately no reason to bring him to anything. Any gimmick, any kind of gameplay he has going for him, another frame can already do it, in a better way, and without the downsides associated with the rift mechanics.

 

Also his kit is super clunky.

 

I am dissapointed by the lack of banshee votes - her ult is bassicly useless unless you are in a low level mission or with a team who can kill them while they are being stunned.

Probably because her ult is meant for CC, not tons of damage.

 

It's an AOE stagger that ignores walls and doesn't stop so long as you're channeling. That's loads better than damage at higher levels.

[Jpizzle96]

I think limbo needs some love :/ he is my favorite frame but I am really tired of people classing me as a troll for using him when I don't use hime like that. I'm glad he is leading the votes and I'm not the only one who thinks he needs a second look :)

[lolmaster222]

Probably because her ult is meant for CC, not tons of damage.

It's an AOE stagger that ignores walls and doesn't stop so long as you're channeling. That's loads better than damage at higher levels.

Fair enough point but compare her CC with the other CC frames and you would realize that a rework is in order - sonar is good and silence is a decent one time stun but if you take a look at frames like excal who's 2nd move blinds for a substantial amount of time she seems like the second option. I havnt seen a squad looking for a banshee for a long time.